Haven't seen it in an while but wasn't there also some heavily downplayed plot point that the planet was technically under federation jurisdiction and the space amish just a landed there ~200 years ago? Making all the constantly drawn paralells between them and earth's history kinda mute because they weren't actually natives.
"We've lived here for 200+ years, but we don't actually own the place." said nobody ever.
(Precedent: countless nations on Earth.)
Yeah, seriously, the Federation claim to owning the system was predicated on the false assumption that it was uninhabited. However the Ba'ku had been living there since before the signing of the Federation charter.
Though Picard made the right choice. It's not about the numbers, it's about the idea of taking a world from someone just because they have something you want.
Right? Then your saying civilization on the western hemisphere is plain wrong! Cause the Americas only exists today cause of Europeans coming over and taking what they wanted.
You might not like this fact, but: Might Makes Right
If your country is "strong" no one will bully you. Look at N Korea... compare that to Iraq, Libya & the Ukraine.
Iraq was a poser and got spanked. Libya had jack and got creamed, Ukraine gave up the goods and got TRIBBLE. N Korea still has her bombs and now everyone is playing nice... way nicer than what happened to the other 3.
trust me, when or if we as a species gets off of Earth and goes up into space... we will steam roll anyone who we can and only play nice to those who are stronger than we are... if we ever come across anyone else that is.
Though Picard made the right choice. It's not about the numbers, it's about the idea of taking a world from someone just because they have something you want.
Right? Then your saying civilization on the western hemisphere is plain wrong! Cause the Americas only exists today cause of Europeans coming over and taking what they wanted.
You might not like this fact, but: Might Makes Right
If your country is "strong" no one will bully you. Look at N Korea... compare that to Iraq, Libya & the Ukraine.
Iraq was a poser and got spanked. Libya had jack and got creamed, Ukraine gave up the goods and got ****. N Korea still has her bombs and now everyone is playing nice... way nicer than what happened to the other 3.
trust me, when or if we as a species gets off of Earth and goes up into space... we will steam roll anyone who we can and only play nice to those who are stronger than we are... if we ever come across anyone else that is.
NK is being played with nicely not because of the weapons but because America is scared of China and allied with SK and any attack on NK would create a unprecedented humanitarian crises as millions of unskilled, untrained, and desperate people will flee the ruins of NK and into SK and China. America has no such concerns in the Middle East and North Africa and was quite happy to just destabilise and leave the resulting chaos to further destabilise the regions.
If NK ever launches a nuke then America won't get chance to retaliate as China will probably put NK down themselves for the embarrassment caused, that is the reason for Kims empty sabre rattling, not pointless appeasement.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Son'a are superflous wrinkly faced evul orcs from a bad Trek movie. They are basically Remans.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
How big the planet was didn't really matter, because they'd need the entire thing for it to quickly rejuvenate people such as the Federation wanted in the Dominion War, or the Son'a who needed ten years of normal exposure to even begin reversing their current bad condition.
Why would they need the whole planet? The Ba'ku only needed a small settlement. Nobody stays in an hopital forever if it can fully regenerate them in a few hours like the Enterprise crew showed. All that'd be needed would be a build a country-sized medical center and make lines of patients.
The Son'a and probably Starfleet through Dougherty wanted to harvest the metaphasic radiation from the Baku world's rings using the collector ship. However, doing so would make the planet uninhabitable for generations.
How big the planet was didn't really matter, because they'd need the entire thing for it to quickly rejuvenate people such as the Federation wanted in the Dominion War, or the Son'a who needed ten years of normal exposure to even begin reversing their current bad condition.
Why would they need the whole planet? The Ba'ku only needed a small settlement. Nobody stays in an hopital forever if it can fully regenerate them in a few hours like the Enterprise crew showed. All that'd be needed would be a build a country-sized medical center and make lines of patients.
The Son'a and probably Starfleet through Dougherty wanted to harvest the metaphasic radiation from the Baku world's rings using the collector ship. However, doing so would make the planet uninhabitable for generations.
I'm aware of that, that's why I didn't include the Collector in the suggestion as it would have only resulted in a short-term "solution". I was talking about creating a long-term and planetary-harmless solution like the Son'a seem to have partially succeeded in making as demonstrated by their facility and what they did to Martok as he mentioned metaphasic radiation used to keep him alive for more near-death beatings.
Well, Picard's guess as to why not is that it was more a dressed up revenge plot than anything about survival. Rua'fo apparently hated the Son'a so much that he'd rather die than see them keep living. Thus why he felt the need to take such a drastic approach. But he had to hide his goal from the other Son'a. Thus why he went to all the work of building the collector. He had to because the other Son'a were counting on him to find a CURE and didn't care about his dumb revenge plot.
I happen to like that movie. It shows off the romulan empire somewhat...so that was cool. And the new romulan ships were cool. I mean the villan was a moron and it had a senseless plot...but come on romulans FTW. Yeah I can forgive a lot for the rolumans .
What kills me about Nemesis is that it actually could have been a good movie if they'd scrapped the idiotic Picard Clone angle and just made Sela the villain.
Out of all the things to base a movie around, they picked that?
It was either that or Data getting killed early.
OK, Brent Spiner wanted Data to die even with the Son'a in the script, but whatever.
So imagine, a plot with space amish, Picard dating an immortal boring lady (whose actress managed to convincingly voice the terrifying and totally not boring Mother Gothel in Tangled), Picard choosing 600 people over the billions of victims of the Dominion War, everyone forgetting a planet is huge and thus it's easy to do stuff on the other side without the amish noticing it, a very lame and whiny villain, a useless joystick scene, lots of non-sense and problems with the Son'a's story logic-wise, etc.
And imagine it could have been even worse!
Basically this was a 2 hour episode without the hassle of commercials and waiting a week to catch the last half....
What kills me about Nemesis is that it actually could have been a good movie if they'd scrapped the idiotic Picard Clone angle and just made Sela the villain.
Even then, an "antagonistic Picard clone" plot had a lot of potential if they put some efforts in it, which they obviously didn't.
Also, about your signature: TRIBBLE you and your balloons, fake Georgie LaForde!
Wasn't the best of the movies....but I do have the ship in-game and it is pretty decent. The subspace weapon sucks horribly though... The weapon fires a wide spread of extremely slow moving, short duration subspace tears that almost never ever reach a target (even one in a tractor beam) before dispersing. Actually...the same subspace tear that appears upon a torpedo detonation is much faster, lasts 3 times longer...and actually works...
What kills me about Nemesis is that it actually could have been a good movie if they'd scrapped the idiotic Picard Clone angle and just made Sela the villain.
Even then, an "antagonistic Picard clone" plot had a lot of potential if they put some efforts in it, which they obviously didn't.
Also, about your signature: **** you and your balloons, fake Georgie LaForde!
Shinzon was basically the core of the plot. You could replace him with Sela, but that'd basically mean rewriting half the script. You'd have to either replace the Remans or come up with a completely new reason for them to work for Sela. You could use the personal enemy angle, but it'd not play out the same with Sela as the villain.
What kills me about Nemesis is that it actually could have been a good movie if they'd scrapped the idiotic Picard Clone angle and just made Sela the villain.
Even then, an "antagonistic Picard clone" plot had a lot of potential if they put some efforts in it, which they obviously didn't.
Also, about your signature: **** you and your balloons, fake Georgie LaForde!
Shinzon was basically the core of the plot. You could replace him with Sela, but that'd basically mean rewriting half the script. You'd have to either replace the Remans or come up with a completely new reason for them to work for Sela. You could use the personal enemy angle, but it'd not play out the same with Sela as the villain.
IMO, this would be a very good thing, cause Nemesis had an absolutely stupid plot, again IMO.
How big the planet was didn't really matter, because they'd need the entire thing for it to quickly rejuvenate people such as the Federation wanted in the Dominion War, or the Son'a who needed ten years of normal exposure to even begin reversing their current bad condition.
Why would they need the whole planet? The Ba'ku only needed a small settlement. Nobody stays in an hopital forever if it can fully regenerate them in a few hours like the Enterprise crew showed. All that'd be needed would be a build a country-sized medical center and make lines of patients.
The Son'a and probably Starfleet through Dougherty wanted to harvest the metaphasic radiation from the Baku world's rings using the collector ship. However, doing so would make the planet uninhabitable for generations.
I'm aware of that, that's why I didn't include the Collector in the suggestion as it would have only resulted in a short-term "solution". I was talking about creating a long-term and planetary-harmless solution like the Son'a seem to have partially succeeded in making as demonstrated by their facility and what they did to Martok as he mentioned metaphasic radiation used to keep him alive for more near-death beatings.
Ahh, I see. I seem to have completely misunderstood your previous post then.
> @markhawkman said:
> saurializard wrote: »
>
> evilmark444 wrote: »
>
> What kills me about Nemesis is that it actually could have been a good movie if they'd scrapped the idiotic Picard Clone angle and just made Sela the villain.
>
>
>
> Even then, an "antagonistic Picard clone" plot had a lot of potential if they put some efforts in it, which they obviously didn't.
>
> Also, about your signature: **** you and your balloons, fake Georgie LaForde!
>
>
>
> Shinzon was basically the core of the plot. You could replace him with Sela, but that'd basically mean rewriting half the script. You'd have to either replace the Remans or come up with a completely new reason for them to work for Sela. You could use the personal enemy angle, but it'd not play out the same with Sela as the villain.
One of the early trailers had me thinking the villain was Lore, still think that would have been great.
Same here, the positronic signals really had me hopeful Lore would make an appearance. Missed opportunity imo for a Data/Lore arc.
Even if it had been a secondary arc within Nemesis, it would have fit well with the theme of clones. Kind of a shame really..
One thing I did really like about Nemesis was how Shinzon died. Stabbed right through the heart. Just like Picard and the Naussican. I always found that to be quite ironic/symbolic.
I often wonder if the writers had that in mind and wrote it that way on purpose. Or if I read too much into this scene...
In any event, it was a fitting end to Shinzon at least for my head canon. A sort of nod back to Picards brash/undisciplined youth. And what could have been.
One thing I did really like about Nemesis was how Shinzon died. Stabbed right through the heart. Just like Picard and the Naussican. I always found that to be quite ironic/symbolic.
I often wonder if the writers had that in mind and wrote it that way on purpose. Or if I read too much into this scene...
In any event, it was a fitting end to Shinzon at least for my head canon. A sort of nod back to Picards brash/undisciplined youth. And what could have been.
If Shinzon was supposed to be stabbed through the heart, that means that the writers don't know WHERE the heart is (at best, the stomach was hit) and also what that wound can do (you suffer massive blood loss, shock and most likely lose consciousness in less than 10 seconds after not being able to do much (especially not managing to force a pipe even deeper through your ripped-apart heart)).
Also, considering the "quality" of the movie's script, I highly doubt the writers would have chosen that on purpose as a reference to Picard's past (heck, they even missed the memo that he wasn't bald at that time).
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
One thing I did really like about Nemesis was how Shinzon died. Stabbed right through the heart. Just like Picard and the Naussican. I always found that to be quite ironic/symbolic.
I often wonder if the writers had that in mind and wrote it that way on purpose. Or if I read too much into this scene...
In any event, it was a fitting end to Shinzon at least for my head canon. A sort of nod back to Picards brash/undisciplined youth. And what could have been.
If Shinzon was supposed to be stabbed through the heart, that means that the writers don't know WHERE the heart is (at best, the stomach was hit) and also what that wound can do (you suffer massive blood loss, shock and most likely lose consciousness in less than 10 seconds after not being able to do much (especially not managing to force a pipe even deeper through your ripped-apart heart)).
Also, considering the "quality" of the movie's script, I highly doubt the writers would have chosen that on purpose as a reference to Picard's past (heck, they even missed the memo that he wasn't bald at that time).
(meant to reply to this a few days ago)
I re watched the scene because it's been years since I've seen it.. And yeah I guess you're right about it not being a heart shot.
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
It was pretty darn close to the heart though. So I'm going to continue to think of it as "through the heart" in my head canon...
because it gives the film a layer of symbolism and irony... Otherwise the film has no reedeming value lol and really was just a "bad movie" lol
The part about losing consciousness in less then 10 secs ect ect... and driving the pipe even deeper... I just chalk that up to Hollywood "Drama"..
Sometimes liberties are taken in the name of increasing the drama of a scene. So I'll let that pass even though you're right about it being unrealistic.
You're right though, not through the heart in pure canon terms I guess. What a shame though.. another example of a missed opportunity that plagues Nemesis.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
... I'll see myself out.
Right? Then your saying civilization on the western hemisphere is plain wrong! Cause the Americas only exists today cause of Europeans coming over and taking what they wanted.
You might not like this fact, but: Might Makes Right
If your country is "strong" no one will bully you. Look at N Korea... compare that to Iraq, Libya & the Ukraine.
Iraq was a poser and got spanked. Libya had jack and got creamed, Ukraine gave up the goods and got TRIBBLE. N Korea still has her bombs and now everyone is playing nice... way nicer than what happened to the other 3.
trust me, when or if we as a species gets off of Earth and goes up into space... we will steam roll anyone who we can and only play nice to those who are stronger than we are... if we ever come across anyone else that is.
NK is being played with nicely not because of the weapons but because America is scared of China and allied with SK and any attack on NK would create a unprecedented humanitarian crises as millions of unskilled, untrained, and desperate people will flee the ruins of NK and into SK and China. America has no such concerns in the Middle East and North Africa and was quite happy to just destabilise and leave the resulting chaos to further destabilise the regions.
If NK ever launches a nuke then America won't get chance to retaliate as China will probably put NK down themselves for the embarrassment caused, that is the reason for Kims empty sabre rattling, not pointless appeasement.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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My character Tsin'xing
What kills me about Nemesis is that it actually could have been a good movie if they'd scrapped the idiotic Picard Clone angle and just made Sela the villain.
Basically this was a 2 hour episode without the hassle of commercials and waiting a week to catch the last half....
Also, about your signature: TRIBBLE you and your balloons, fake Georgie LaForde!
My character Tsin'xing
You could say that....Remans are perfected Son'a.
IMO, this would be a very good thing, cause Nemesis had an absolutely stupid plot, again IMO.
LMAO!
Ahh, I see. I seem to have completely misunderstood your previous post then.
Same here, the positronic signals really had me hopeful Lore would make an appearance. Missed opportunity imo for a Data/Lore arc.
Even if it had been a secondary arc within Nemesis, it would have fit well with the theme of clones. Kind of a shame really..
One thing I did really like about Nemesis was how Shinzon died. Stabbed right through the heart. Just like Picard and the Naussican. I always found that to be quite ironic/symbolic.
I often wonder if the writers had that in mind and wrote it that way on purpose. Or if I read too much into this scene...
In any event, it was a fitting end to Shinzon at least for my head canon. A sort of nod back to Picards brash/undisciplined youth. And what could have been.
Also, considering the "quality" of the movie's script, I highly doubt the writers would have chosen that on purpose as a reference to Picard's past (heck, they even missed the memo that he wasn't bald at that time).
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Shows how awesome he is, and why he's the best captain
(meant to reply to this a few days ago)
I re watched the scene because it's been years since I've seen it.. And yeah I guess you're right about it not being a heart shot.
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
It was pretty darn close to the heart though. So I'm going to continue to think of it as "through the heart" in my head canon...
because it gives the film a layer of symbolism and irony... Otherwise the film has no reedeming value lol and really was just a "bad movie" lol
The part about losing consciousness in less then 10 secs ect ect... and driving the pipe even deeper... I just chalk that up to Hollywood "Drama"..
Sometimes liberties are taken in the name of increasing the drama of a scene. So I'll let that pass even though you're right about it being unrealistic.
You're right though, not through the heart in pure canon terms I guess. What a shame though.. another example of a missed opportunity that plagues Nemesis.