I think the OP's idea is good, especially with baddmoonrizin's improvements. I would have no objection to the idea.
But an idea I would support wholeheartedly is that the tutorial also include explanations of how ships and characters are built in this game and how that interacts with your character build and BOff powers. Later, as each new feature is implemented, DOffing, Traits, etc. there should be a mini-tutorial to explain how those interact with your build. (Not your specific build, but in general.)
For example, you have just received your orders to assume command of your starter ship. Quinn says something like, "She's berthed in the San Francisco Fleet Shipyards, (or Utopia Planetia, since Mars Orbit map exists but is seldom used,) undergoing repairs. You need to get those repairs completed and get underway in seventy-two hours. Dismissed."
From there you go to the yard where you have options between weapons, ship gear, consoles, and consumables, Mk II of course. The Yard engineer explains that each component can interact with others, how power levels affect gear, how to set up a basic powers tray for ease of use, etc, and finally, how to integrate the captain's abilities into the build.
At T1 all of these choices are limited, so such a tutorial would be simple. Doing it at level 50 would require a whole new game, but the current system of hinting here and there leads to great angst every time a player hits 60 and discovers that his jack of all trades rainbow build won't cut it in the queues.
Assume all gear in the following example is Mk II White or Infinity, (levels with you at white quality.)
Starfleet Engineer: The Warp Core is your primary power supply for the ship. In time you may choose to learn the skills Warp Core Potential and Warp Core Efficiency, which will improve warp core performance. The type of warp core you choose can also affect your ship's performance in other areas. We have four warp core types which will fit your ship:
Standard = Mk II upgradeable. Default warp core for starter ships.
Weapons = Mk Infinity with +5 weapon power "This will improve the damage your energy weapons can do, but does not help Torpedoes."
Auxiliary = Mk Infinity with +5 auxiliary power "This will improve many Science and Engineering BOff Powers which are based on Auxiliary Power setting."
Engines = Mk Infinity with +5 Engine power "This will improve your ship's turn rate and speed."
And as the Engineer leads you through gear selection each piece you add is explained not only in what it does, but in how it affects each other piece. Impulse Engine selection will discuss engine power levels, flight speed, and turn rate, while shield selection will discuss Shield Hardness, both the skill and its effect in battle, etc.
The existing tutorials teach you how to do things in game, but nothing in game begins to prepare the player for end game content. Doing so starting at Tier 1 will make each bite smaller and easier to chew, and by the time a player gets to level 50 he will understand that there are interrelations between various aspects of a build. Heck, it doesn't even show you that you don't get accurate numbers on your ship stats page if you aren't in space.
And of course, it should be skippable so the guys who know everything already don't have to do it again
YES!!! Thank you!!! That is EXACTLY the kind of thing I was meaning Something which truly educates the player, while immersing them into 'The World of the Game', beyond what toon creation may achieve (I spend ages crafting my characters, wifey only altered hairstyle and color ) Thank you for such an awesome contribution to the discussion
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Your right, sorry valoreah. There should be something noted in the storyline itself that will prepare the player for a slower ship like Captain Taggart mentioning that larger ships are usually slower to turn and speed up depending on what their purposes is, escort, cruisers and science ships, perhaps a holodeck simulator on what it's like to work with a larger ship again as another form of preparation besides the phaser holodeck simulation.
Even if Taggart were to mention that in the dialogue, I think it still might confuse some people.
Holodeck simulations for training is not necessarily a bad idea. However, with regard to the opening tutorial how do you balance between activities that are a must know and those that are nice to have? I'm sure we can come up with a laundry list of things and ideas for a more authentic Starfleet Academy experience. That might be great to teach a new player everything there is to know about the game, but it also might be far too long, drawn out, lost in minutia and boring enough to turn off a new player and overwhelm them with too much information.
Using the holodeck might be beneficial elsewhere in the game. For instance, visiting the Dockmaster or Chief Engineer at spacedock has something like an option for "tell me more" where a player could learn more about how various consoles workas @brian334 talks suggests here:
...But an idea I would support wholeheartedly is that the tutorial also include explanations of how ships and characters are built in this game and how that interacts with your character build and BOff powers. Later, as each new feature is implemented, DOffing, Traits, etc. there should be a mini-tutorial to explain how those interact with your build. (Not your specific build, but in general.)
...
Assume all gear in the following example is Mk II White or Infinity, (levels with you at white quality.)
Starfleet Engineer: The Warp Core is your primary power supply for the ship. In time you may choose to learn the skills Warp Core Potential and Warp Core Efficiency, which will improve warp core performance. The type of warp core you choose can also affect your ship's performance in other areas. We have four warp core types which will fit your ship:
Standard = Mk II upgradeable. Default warp core for starter ships.
Weapons = Mk Infinity with +5 weapon power "This will improve the damage your energy weapons can do, but does not help Torpedoes."
Auxiliary = Mk Infinity with +5 auxiliary power "This will improve many Science and Engineering BOff Powers which are based on Auxiliary Power setting."
Engines = Mk Infinity with +5 Engine power "This will improve your ship's turn rate and speed."
And as the Engineer leads you through gear selection each piece you add is explained not only in what it does, but in how it affects each other piece. Impulse Engine selection will discuss engine power levels, flight speed, and turn rate, while shield selection will discuss Shield Hardness, both the skill and its effect in battle, etc.
Having more tutorials spread out through the game would be more helpful because you could always come back to them if needed without having to run the tutorial again.
That would alleviate a drawn out intro-tutorial filled with too much information beyond the basics.
+1 Valoreah, i don't have anything more on the issue and i most certainly agree to the idea of a few more tutorials as well.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I think that short, and skippable, tutorials should be placed where the new player will encounter them and clearly labeled as such.
For example:
Quinn: "She's undergoing repairs in the Utopia Planetia Fleet Repair Spacedock. You need to complete those repairs and be ready to get underway in seventy-two hours. Dismissed.
Player Response A: "I will make good use of the time by getting to know my new command, sir." [Begin tutorial on choosing the right equipment for my ship.]
Player Response B: "I am ready, sir." [Skip the tutorial, I want to play!] (Defaults to stock ship gear that you currently enjoy.)
At Tier 1 you have limited ship gear:
Two Forward Weapons
Deflector
Impulse Engine
Warp Core
Shield
One Aft Weapon
Four Consumable slots
One Eng Console
One Tac Console
One Sci Console
I bet I could crunch it down to about 120 dialogue lines, not including move ahead and go back options.
I have also given thought to the idea that this could be done better when you acquire your first T2 vessel, but the number of ships available at that point quintuples the amount of dialogue options needed, even if most of them would copy/paste from the first ship's tutorial. Using the Miranda/Utility Cruiser for the tutorial simplifies things.
I think that short, and skippable, tutorials should be placed where the new player will encounter them and clearly labeled as such.
For example:
Quinn: "She's undergoing repairs in the Utopia Planetia Fleet Repair Spacedock. You need to complete those repairs and be ready to get underway in seventy-two hours. Dismissed.
Player Response A: "I will make good use of the time by getting to know my new command, sir." [Begin tutorial on choosing the right equipment for my ship.]
Player Response B: "I am ready, sir." [Skip the tutorial, I want to play!] (Defaults to stock ship gear that you currently enjoy.)
At Tier 1 you have limited ship gear:
Two Forward Weapons
Deflector
Impulse Engine
Warp Core
Shield
One Aft Weapon
Four Consumable slots
One Eng Console
One Tac Console
One Sci Console
I bet I could crunch it down to about 120 dialogue lines, not including move ahead and go back options.
I have also given thought to the idea that this could be done better when you acquire your first T2 vessel, but the number of ships available at that point quintuples the amount of dialogue options needed, even if most of them would copy/paste from the first ship's tutorial. Using the Miranda/Utility Cruiser for the tutorial simplifies things.
Awesome
Splitting some of the tutorial options to Tier 2, could also be explained thusly:
Quinn: Since the 'acceleration' of your career may have meant missing out on all that training cruise typically has to offer, now would be a good time to gain those new certifications.
Player Response A: "I want to be the best officer I can be, sir." [Begin tutorial on EVA maneuvering.]
Player Response B: "It's okay, sir, I took that course while I was at the academy." [Skip the tutorial, I want to play!] (Time to meet Lieutenant Laurel )
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Tutorials need to be informative, so as to cover the basics, but relatively short. Ever play a first-person shooter game, that comes with an introductory training round first?! Typically, you want that to be over as fast as possible, and get on to the actual game. STO is no different. Ergo, keep it short & sweet.
Tutorials need to be informative, so as to cover the basics, but relatively short. Ever play a first-person shooter game, that comes with an introductory training round first?! Typically, you want that to be over as fast as possible, and get on to the actual game. STO is no different. Ergo, keep it short & sweet.
I'm thinking along the lines of GTA V, where the first few missions gradually introduce elements. The issue with the current Fed tutorial, is that it drags on the space 'go there, click that', and length of the Borg space and ground missions. Now if those missions were halved in length, and that time redistributed to learning other in-game controls, like EVA, dil mining, etc, thenit wouldn't be any longer, but would be more informative, and, would have ghe added bonus of each mission/tutorial being shorter, and thus less draggy. A while ago, someone posted that he eventually convinced his girlfriend to sign up, but she quit just before completing the Vega missions, because the tutorial had dragged on long enough
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
A while ago, someone posted that he eventually convinced his girlfriend to sign up, but she quit just before completing the Vega missions, because the tutorial had dragged on long enough
That could have been me. Not too long, please. I kinda like to learn along the way.
Your GTA V tutorial example is a good one, though.
A while ago, someone posted that he eventually convinced his girlfriend to sign up, but she quit just before completing the Vega missions, because the tutorial had dragged on long enough
That could have been me. Not too long, please. I kinda like to learn along the way.
Your GTA V tutorial example is a good one, though.
I think the sad thing reading it, was that if she had just hung on in there for another half-hour or so, she would have completed the tutorial And thinking back to that situation, just makes me think that some of those missions could easily be cut back time-wise by half, and if spread over various topics, it could allow for a more varied and engaging tutorial
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I have come to appreciate the Level up Ships. I recently decided to get off my duff and get the remaining few of my Characters up to snuff for Admiralty. After I claim all my Event Ships and C-Store Ships I go back to the Ship Vendor and claim all the Level up Ships that I never claimed.
I also started getting any EC Shuttles. For Romulan and KDF Characters I also get all the Mirror Ships. Somewhat (but nowhere close to) equalizing those Characters with the Federation ones.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
One thought on Quinn sending you to the yards to patch up a ship as part of an extended training in the academy.
It shouldn't be Quinn. Quinn serves the fleet not the academy. Use the academy commandant to send you to such missions before you graduate.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
One thought on Quinn sending you to the yards to patch up a ship as part of an extended training in the academy.
It shouldn't be Quinn. Quinn serves the fleet not the academy. Use the academy commandant to send you to such missions before you graduate.
The commandant could be as busy as Quinn, he has a large academy to run in California with thousands of cadets coming through the academy looking to be Starfleet officers or to wash out, he probably has other duties as well, a great deal of paper work and dealing with other starfleet captains for recommendations to their ships and hosting their arrival. i can't think of anything else but there could be other duties.
Captain Taggart is the one who would porbably be the one giving you the assignment, if you are to serve on his ship beside him as his first officer, he has to be the one to test if you are capable for the role on his ship.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
One thought on Quinn sending you to the yards to patch up a ship as part of an extended training in the academy.
It shouldn't be Quinn. Quinn serves the fleet not the academy. Use the academy commandant to send you to such missions before you graduate.
The commandant could be as busy as Quinn, he has a large academy to run in California with thousands of cadets coming through the academy looking to be Starfleet officers or to wash out, he probably has other duties as well, a great deal of paper work and dealing with other starfleet captains for recommendations to their ships and hosting their arrival. i can't think of anything else but there could be other duties.
Captain Taggart is the one who would porbably be the one giving you the assignment, if you are to serve on his ship beside him as his first officer, he has to be the one to test if you are capable for the role on his ship.
Possible. But he is not an assignment officer. He is a captain of a ship that does training crews. The way the others speak there are multiple ships to do the training cruise and you happened to get his. Which is an honour apparently.
So perhaps personnel officer Ferra?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
One thought on Quinn sending you to the yards to patch up a ship as part of an extended training in the academy.
It shouldn't be Quinn. Quinn serves the fleet not the academy. Use the academy commandant to send you to such missions before you graduate.
The commandant could be as busy as Quinn, he has a large academy to run in California with thousands of cadets coming through the academy looking to be Starfleet officers or to wash out, he probably has other duties as well, a great deal of paper work and dealing with other starfleet captains for recommendations to their ships and hosting their arrival. i can't think of anything else but there could be other duties.
Captain Taggart is the one who would porbably be the one giving you the assignment, if you are to serve on his ship beside him as his first officer, he has to be the one to test if you are capable for the role on his ship.
Possible. But he is not an assignment officer. He is a captain of a ship that does training crews. The way the others speak there are multiple ships to do the training cruise and you happened to get his. Which is an honour apparently.
So perhaps personnel officer Ferra?
Indeed your option is just as plausible, perhaps an active serving member of the ships crew who is not a cadet? But is there to assign duties to cadets like your character.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
One thought on Quinn sending you to the yards to patch up a ship as part of an extended training in the academy.
It shouldn't be Quinn. Quinn serves the fleet not the academy. Use the academy commandant to send you to such missions before you graduate.
The commandant could be as busy as Quinn, he has a large academy to run in California with thousands of cadets coming through the academy looking to be Starfleet officers or to wash out, he probably has other duties as well, a great deal of paper work and dealing with other starfleet captains for recommendations to their ships and hosting their arrival. i can't think of anything else but there could be other duties.
Captain Taggart is the one who would porbably be the one giving you the assignment, if you are to serve on his ship beside him as his first officer, he has to be the one to test if you are capable for the role on his ship.
Possible. But he is not an assignment officer. He is a captain of a ship that does training crews. The way the others speak there are multiple ships to do the training cruise and you happened to get his. Which is an honour apparently. So perhaps personnel officer Ferra?
That would work
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I think we're missing the point of a tutorial. Would these skills be useful? Yes. Are they nessesary? No. The role of a tutorial should be to teach you the skills you need to play the game.
I think we're missing the point of a tutorial. Would these skills be useful? Yes. Are they nessesary? No. The role of a tutorial should be to teach you the skills you need to play the game.
Thanks for your thoughts In some instances, these are necessary to play the game (mining the comet with Kuumaarke, for example or being able to run Boldly They Rode, without the need for all the KURLAND HERE! popups.) They're by no means vital skills, but certainly useful skills to have for a more flowing gameplay, and thus best delivered via a tutorial
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I think we're missing the point of a tutorial. Would these skills be useful? Yes. Are they nessesary? No. The role of a tutorial should be to teach you the skills you need to play the game.
Actually, the game does not prepare you for the jump to advanced and elite content. There are no in game resources which direct you to adjust power settings or to acquire skills, powers, and gear that is complimentary, and great frustration ensues when players encounter the massive learning curve they must overcome to enter such content.
Learning these things at Tier 1, where there are far fewer options and variables, would reduce the vertical bump you must overcome to access end game content. So yes, it is necessary.
The way I see it the more of theses useful, but unnecessary, skills you include in the tutorial the greater risk you run of making it too long and alienating new players. After all I'm sure we've played a game before where the tutorial just seemed to go on forever and soured us on the game as a whole.
Agreed. Short, simple, and skippable. I would also spread them out among the starter quests so that no one tutorial takes more than a few minutes away from what you are doing and the lesson helps the player to understand what is needed to succeed at the mission.
Then put them in Holodeck for later access at need.
Comments
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
+1 Valoreah, i don't have anything more on the issue and i most certainly agree to the idea of a few more tutorials as well.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I think that short, and skippable, tutorials should be placed where the new player will encounter them and clearly labeled as such.
For example:
Quinn: "She's undergoing repairs in the Utopia Planetia Fleet Repair Spacedock. You need to complete those repairs and be ready to get underway in seventy-two hours. Dismissed.
Player Response A: "I will make good use of the time by getting to know my new command, sir." [Begin tutorial on choosing the right equipment for my ship.]
Player Response B: "I am ready, sir." [Skip the tutorial, I want to play!] (Defaults to stock ship gear that you currently enjoy.)
At Tier 1 you have limited ship gear:
Two Forward Weapons
Deflector
Impulse Engine
Warp Core
Shield
One Aft Weapon
Four Consumable slots
One Eng Console
One Tac Console
One Sci Console
I bet I could crunch it down to about 120 dialogue lines, not including move ahead and go back options.
I have also given thought to the idea that this could be done better when you acquire your first T2 vessel, but the number of ships available at that point quintuples the amount of dialogue options needed, even if most of them would copy/paste from the first ship's tutorial. Using the Miranda/Utility Cruiser for the tutorial simplifies things.
Awesome
Splitting some of the tutorial options to Tier 2, could also be explained thusly:
Quinn: Since the 'acceleration' of your career may have meant missing out on all that training cruise typically has to offer, now would be a good time to gain those new certifications.
Player Response A: "I want to be the best officer I can be, sir." [Begin tutorial on EVA maneuvering.]
Player Response B: "It's okay, sir, I took that course while I was at the academy." [Skip the tutorial, I want to play!] (Time to meet
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
That could have been me.
Your GTA V tutorial example is a good one, though.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I have come to appreciate the Level up Ships. I recently decided to get off my duff and get the remaining few of my Characters up to snuff for Admiralty. After I claim all my Event Ships and C-Store Ships I go back to the Ship Vendor and claim all the Level up Ships that I never claimed.
I also started getting any EC Shuttles. For Romulan and KDF Characters I also get all the Mirror Ships. Somewhat (but nowhere close to) equalizing those Characters with the Federation ones.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
It shouldn't be Quinn. Quinn serves the fleet not the academy. Use the academy commandant to send you to such missions before you graduate.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
The commandant could be as busy as Quinn, he has a large academy to run in California with thousands of cadets coming through the academy looking to be Starfleet officers or to wash out, he probably has other duties as well, a great deal of paper work and dealing with other starfleet captains for recommendations to their ships and hosting their arrival. i can't think of anything else but there could be other duties.
Captain Taggart is the one who would porbably be the one giving you the assignment, if you are to serve on his ship beside him as his first officer, he has to be the one to test if you are capable for the role on his ship.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Possible. But he is not an assignment officer. He is a captain of a ship that does training crews. The way the others speak there are multiple ships to do the training cruise and you happened to get his. Which is an honour apparently.
So perhaps personnel officer Ferra?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Indeed your option is just as plausible, perhaps an active serving member of the ships crew who is not a cadet? But is there to assign duties to cadets like your character.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Actually, the game does not prepare you for the jump to advanced and elite content. There are no in game resources which direct you to adjust power settings or to acquire skills, powers, and gear that is complimentary, and great frustration ensues when players encounter the massive learning curve they must overcome to enter such content.
Learning these things at Tier 1, where there are far fewer options and variables, would reduce the vertical bump you must overcome to access end game content. So yes, it is necessary.
Then put them in Holodeck for later access at need.