Unfamiliar face, but a welcome message.
Let's see if i can grab some of the missing goodies on my newest characters.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I like these and have a lot of Dil laying around so I splurged and bought 300 this time and got...
165 Uncommon (55%)
99 Rare (33%)
35 Very Rare (11.7%)
1 Epic (0.3%) (Epic came around box #225)
Yeah, 300 isn't a good sample size, but that's how this broke down.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
I like these and have a lot of Dil laying around so I splurged and bought 300 this time and got...
165 Uncommon (55%)
99 Rare (33%)
35 Very Rare (11.7%)
1 Epic (0.3%) (Epic came around box #225)
Yeah, 300 isn't a good sample size, but that's how this broke down.
Dang that statistical break-down doesn't seem encouraging to me at all. Hopefully you were able to get what you wanted though. My main focus last time, which was my first time, with the Phoenix Prize Pack was to gather Red Matter Capacitors for all my toons which I achieved. No Epics or Ultra Rares though just Very Rares & lowers.
The one shot Phoenix Replica Admiralty ships are finally working and being given out with the Daily Phoenix Prize.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Emergency Conn is there as well as the new ones, An, APU, and Tactical Exocomp. Lukari is too new. No ISS Stadi, but the Agony Phaser Rifle is there. Fleet Tribble added.
Post edited by ltminns on
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Stadi card is still under a year old, so I didn't expect it. They've almost cleared out the backlog of old limited-time prizes that have never returned. Still possible are the rare DOff from Tribble testing for Season Five, Varel, several Tribble test titles, the TNG 25th anniversary stuff (Worf's hair, beard and sash) from that event and some possibilities that should go elsewhere, but I'm not holding my breath, like the Kobali outfit and the starship emotes. Anything else from Tribble tests is very unlikely, since it would compete with C-Store items, or is a bunch of currency or something like that.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
I like these and have a lot of Dil laying around so I splurged and bought 300 this time and got...
165 Uncommon (55%)
99 Rare (33%)
35 Very Rare (11.7%)
1 Epic (0.3%) (Epic came around box #225)
Yeah, 300 isn't a good sample size, but that's how this broke down.
I got very similar results from opening 500 boxes:
284 Uncommon (57%)
155 Rare (31%)
61 Very Rare (12%)
I like these and have a lot of Dil laying around so I splurged and bought 300 this time and got...
165 Uncommon (55%)
99 Rare (33%)
35 Very Rare (11.7%)
1 Epic (0.3%) (Epic came around box #225)
Yeah, 300 isn't a good sample size, but that's how this broke down.
I got very similar results from opening 500 boxes:
284 Uncommon (57%)
155 Rare (31%)
61 Very Rare (12%)
So using about half a million dilithium & not even 1 ship chance. This game's odds on the gambling mechanisms truly sucks :-( At least the upgrade tokens are welcomed along with a handful of other useful items from Very Rare on down.
I like these and have a lot of Dil laying around so I splurged and bought 300 this time and got...
165 Uncommon (55%)
99 Rare (33%)
35 Very Rare (11.7%)
1 Epic (0.3%) (Epic came around box #225)
Yeah, 300 isn't a good sample size, but that's how this broke down.
I got very similar results from opening 500 boxes:
284 Uncommon (57%)
155 Rare (31%)
61 Very Rare (12%)
Those were my first Ultra Rare and Epic tokens from these, out of what must be well over 1500 opened over the three runs of this event. Glad I don't need any of the old event ships, and am not particularly interested in the JHAS or Bulwark.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
I have 2 epic and 2 ultra rare prize tokens. I wanted to gift a bug ship to a friend but can't claim it again. After researching I've found that they are bound to account. I'm not looking to sell the ship for ec's so is there any way to donate the ship or gift it to him?
I wish this was stated without hovering your mouse over the ship witch was greyed out before hand.
Very disappointed and upset that this was not explained in the press release.
It was stated that all 'prizes' are Character Bound only. The Upgrades are Account Bound, the Tokens are Account Bound.
You could convert the Token down on a 2:1 basis, or get a ship on another Character on the Account. Those ships do not provide an Account Unlock.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I hate how they decided to do an upgrade weekend at the same time causing the dil ex to rise back up even before the phoenix event is over.
Upgrade weekend also pushes the exchange down (very slightly). People are just done with the phoenix boxes so it's heading back up to 300. Phoenix didn't have much pop this time. Amazingly there is still a slight pressure down when there are no sales etc from the company. With the new big fleet project coming I'm feeling we might get it down to the 200-250 range this fall.
I got a second UR in 60 boxes this weekend. Last time I got it early also but opened around 200. Someday I guess I'll get a bug ship just for the heck of it but I'm going to hold one token for a while.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I must have picked up near to 400 this round. I saved some Uncommon, Rare, and Very rare so each of my Characters could pick up the three new Doffs, the Fleet Tribble, Agony Rifle (if needed), and Bat'leth if applicable.
The sad part that even with 101k Tech Points per Upgrade and 1.5 Accelerators, how many of those Upgrades, upgrading stuff can suck up.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I hate how they decided to do an upgrade weekend at the same time causing the dil ex to rise back up even before the phoenix event is over.
Upgrade weekend also pushes the exchange down (very slightly). People are just done with the phoenix boxes so it's heading back up to 300. Phoenix didn't have much pop this time. Amazingly there is still a slight pressure down when there are no sales etc from the company. With the new big fleet project coming I'm feeling we might get it down to the 200-250 range this fall.
I got a second UR in 60 boxes this weekend. Last time I got it early also but opened around 200. Someday I guess I'll get a bug ship just for the heck of it but I'm going to hold one token for a while.
Phoenix had a strong effect for the first day or so. I saw rates down to around 250 on Friday, but it didn't last. I suspect that a lot of people had a hoard of refined dilithium and cashed out.
With NOP Public Service, I'm not certain about many fleets' desire to do the full holding coming up. My fleet will, but a lot of others may not, so I don't know how much it will drive the exchange down. It will go down some, but I'm not holding out hope for a decrease of quite the scale that you are. Maybe the low end of your prediction will happen, but I doubt that we'll see the higher end.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
Are you going to add the T-5 Kamarag Battlecruiser Retrofit to these Phoenix Prize Packs???
Came out on the 3 year Anniversary....only one of my characters have one.
Had to play the FE "Temporal Ambassador" for tokens, I forgot how many times....
Or did I miss them? Already?
The Fed counterpart was a T-5 Support Cruiser.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I hate how they decided to do an upgrade weekend at the same time causing the dil ex to rise back up even before the phoenix event is over.
Upgrade weekend also pushes the exchange down (very slightly). People are just done with the phoenix boxes so it's heading back up to 300. Phoenix didn't have much pop this time. Amazingly there is still a slight pressure down when there are no sales etc from the company. With the new big fleet project coming I'm feeling we might get it down to the 200-250 range this fall.
I got a second UR in 60 boxes this weekend. Last time I got it early also but opened around 200. Someday I guess I'll get a bug ship just for the heck of it but I'm going to hold one token for a while.
Phoenix had a strong effect for the first day or so. I saw rates down to around 250 on Friday, but it didn't last. I suspect that a lot of people had a hoard of refined dilithium and cashed out.
With NOP Public Service, I'm not certain about many fleets' desire to do the full holding coming up. My fleet will, but a lot of others may not, so I don't know how much it will drive the exchange down. It will go down some, but I'm not holding out hope for a decrease of quite the scale that you are. Maybe the low end of your prediction will happen, but I doubt that we'll see the higher end.
It's true that fleet stuff no longer has as much power over the exchange as it once did. I think it's because there are less small to mid-sized fleets and their leaders are less willing to spend thousands to complete things. I just think that a 5 level holding will cause enough spending to move it. It may be as you say more like 230-270. It sounds like they might be gating new content behind these levels as well. We shall see. I generally like all the fleet stuff and the colony looks like what many have been asking for for years. No living quarters but it's still pretty neat.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
And they gave out that T5 Ambassador Account Unlock a few years ago as part of a Summer Giveaway. No Kamarang at that time, but the T5 is usable by Fed-aligned Romulans. The only T5 to do so.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Are you going to add the T-5 Kamarag Battlecruiser Retrofit to these Phoenix Prize Packs???
Came out on the 3 year Anniversary....only one of my characters have one.
Had to play the FE "Temporal Ambassador" for tokens, I forgot how many times....
Or did I miss them? Already?
The Fed counterpart was a T-5 Support Cruiser.
That's right... they need to add the T3 and T5s from Temporal Ambassador... I junked my T3 ages ago before Admiralty system... so no card for that... if they dont want to add the ship... at least add the T3 and T5 cards. Uncommon for both the T3 & T5 card due to rare having a T6 card.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
You can get those T3s all the time by replaying the Episode.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
It was stated that all 'prizes' are Character Bound only. The Upgrades are Account Bound, the Tokens are Account Bound.
You could convert the Token down on a 2:1 basis, or get a ship on another Character on the Account. Those ships do not provide an Account Unlock.
** All prizes obtained via this promotion – including Starships – are Bound to Character, and do not result in any Account-Wide Unlocks. Prize Tokens are Account Bound.
Not going to argue more than what it states and what it does NOT state. Any starship prize is bound to character once opened and unpacked. It does not state boxed like it typically does during other promotions. Prize Tokens being account bound just allows any toon to buy/purchase the item doesn't mean the item is bound. Search the exchange for proof of this from other unlocks where people have and are selling these items.
Ultimately I still call foul play and am upset. Very poor wording and if I had known this in advance I would have just wired my friend the money to try and win them himself. At least that way if he didn't get one then that would have been the end of it. But I have the tokens and can claim the ship but I don't want it. Again just disappointed and will just save my money and spend it on another games if this is how it's going to be.
Are you going to add the T-5 Kamarag Battlecruiser Retrofit to these Phoenix Prize Packs???
Came out on the 3 year Anniversary....only one of my characters have one.
Had to play the FE "Temporal Ambassador" for tokens, I forgot how many times....
Or did I miss them? Already?
The Fed counterpart was a T-5 Support Cruiser.
Someone made a list of items still missing from the Phoenix Store a eight months ago. Hopefully, Cryptic can get them added next time.
And they gave out that T5 Ambassador Account Unlock a few years ago as part of a Summer Giveaway. No Kamarang at that time, but the T5 is usable by Fed-aligned Romulans. The only T5 to do so.
I have this account unlock, and I'm sure many long-time players do as well, but many newer players wouldn't. Also, I don't understand why the KDF never got an equivalent account unlock for the T5 Kamarag.
And they gave out that T5 Ambassador Account Unlock a few years ago as part of a Summer Giveaway. No Kamarang at that time, but the T5 is usable by Fed-aligned Romulans. The only T5 to do so.
I have this account unlock, and I'm sure many long-time players do as well, but many newer players wouldn't. Also, I don't understand why the KDF never got an equivalent account unlock for the T5 Kamarag.
That is odd.
Hmmmm..it makes me feel that I may have taken in some of that potent "Cryptic Hates KDF" red Kool-aid after hearing of this this one. Not a good feeling, I must say.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Comments
Unfamiliar face, but a welcome message.
Let's see if i can grab some of the missing goodies on my newest characters.
165 Uncommon (55%)
99 Rare (33%)
35 Very Rare (11.7%)
1 Epic (0.3%) (Epic came around box #225)
Yeah, 300 isn't a good sample size, but that's how this broke down.
Dang that statistical break-down doesn't seem encouraging to me at all. Hopefully you were able to get what you wanted though. My main focus last time, which was my first time, with the Phoenix Prize Pack was to gather Red Matter Capacitors for all my toons which I achieved. No Epics or Ultra Rares though just Very Rares & lowers.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I got very similar results from opening 500 boxes:
284 Uncommon (57%)
155 Rare (31%)
61 Very Rare (12%)
So using about half a million dilithium & not even 1 ship chance. This game's odds on the gambling mechanisms truly sucks :-( At least the upgrade tokens are welcomed along with a handful of other useful items from Very Rare on down.
EPIC
•Vorgon Kyfius Heavy Escort [T6]
•Breen Rezreth Dreadnought Cruiser [T6]
•Breen Sarr Theln Carrier [T6]
•Kobali Samsar Cruiser [T6]
•Krenim Science Vessel [T6]
•Ferengi Nandi Warship [T6]
ULTRA RARE
•Jem’Hadar Attack Ship [T5]
•Breen Chel Grett Warship [T5]
•Breen Plesh Brek Heavy Raider [T5]
•Risian Corvette [T5]
•Risian Luxury Cruiser [T5]
•Voth Bulwark Dreadnought Cruiser [T5]
VERY RARE
•Red Matter Capacitor
•Universal Kit Module – Crystalline Spike
•Zefram Cochrane Shotgun
•Crystalline Energy Torpedo Launcher
•Mirror Universe Agony Phaser Rifle
•Tritanium Rending Bat’leth (KDF Only)
•Young Nanov – Vanity Pet (Romulan Only)
RARE
•Crystalline Shard – Space Vanity Pet
•Console – Universal – Crystalline Absorption Matrix
•Console – Tactical – Automated Defense Turret
•V.S.S. Tanius – Admiralty Ship
•Hakeev (Mirror Universe) – Duty Officer
•Mariah Kilara Marr – Duty Officer
•Emergency Conn Hologram - Duty Officer
•Ang the Viscious – Duty Officer
•Automated Personnel Unit – Duty Officer
•Tactical Exocomp – Duty Officer (Federation Only)
•Goshi the Augmented – Duty Officer (KDF Only)
UNCOMMON
•Radan Tribble
•Solanae Tribble
•Mol’Rihan Tribble
•Crossfire Tribble
•Fleet Tribble
•Holographic Combat Drone
•Dilithium Encrusted Horta
•Mugato Leash
•Phoenix Shuttle Vanity Pet
•Toron Shuttle Vanity Pet
•Type-8 Shuttlecraft
•Emote Unlock: Air Guitar
•Emote Unlock: Bloodwine
•Emote Unlock: Bow
•Emote Unlock: Dance (Jester)
•Emote Unlock: Frustrated
•Emote Unlock: Khan
•Emote Unlock: Pick Me
•Emote Unlock: Shaka, When The Walls Fell
•Emote Unlock: Shoo
•Fleet Credit Bonus Pool
•Fleet Mark Bonus Pool
•Reputation mark Bonus Pool
•Commendation XP Bonus Pool
•Phoenix Universal Tech Upgrade
•Space Combat Pet – Fighter Squadron
*Checked from a Federation character, so KDF and Romulan only items not vereified.
600 opened here
333 Uncommon (55.5%)
177 Rare (29.5%)
88 Very Rare (14.7%)
1 Ultra Rare (0.17%)
1 Epic (0.17%)
Those were my first Ultra Rare and Epic tokens from these, out of what must be well over 1500 opened over the three runs of this event. Glad I don't need any of the old event ships, and am not particularly interested in the JHAS or Bulwark.
I have 2 epic and 2 ultra rare prize tokens. I wanted to gift a bug ship to a friend but can't claim it again. After researching I've found that they are bound to account. I'm not looking to sell the ship for ec's so is there any way to donate the ship or gift it to him?
I wish this was stated without hovering your mouse over the ship witch was greyed out before hand.
Very disappointed and upset that this was not explained in the press release.
You could convert the Token down on a 2:1 basis, or get a ship on another Character on the Account. Those ships do not provide an Account Unlock.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Upgrade weekend also pushes the exchange down (very slightly). People are just done with the phoenix boxes so it's heading back up to 300. Phoenix didn't have much pop this time. Amazingly there is still a slight pressure down when there are no sales etc from the company. With the new big fleet project coming I'm feeling we might get it down to the 200-250 range this fall.
I got a second UR in 60 boxes this weekend. Last time I got it early also but opened around 200. Someday I guess I'll get a bug ship just for the heck of it but I'm going to hold one token for a while.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The sad part that even with 101k Tech Points per Upgrade and 1.5 Accelerators, how many of those Upgrades, upgrading stuff can suck up.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Phoenix had a strong effect for the first day or so. I saw rates down to around 250 on Friday, but it didn't last. I suspect that a lot of people had a hoard of refined dilithium and cashed out.
With NOP Public Service, I'm not certain about many fleets' desire to do the full holding coming up. My fleet will, but a lot of others may not, so I don't know how much it will drive the exchange down. It will go down some, but I'm not holding out hope for a decrease of quite the scale that you are. Maybe the low end of your prediction will happen, but I doubt that we'll see the higher end.
Came out on the 3 year Anniversary....only one of my characters have one.
Had to play the FE "Temporal Ambassador" for tokens, I forgot how many times....
Or did I miss them? Already?
The Fed counterpart was a T-5 Support Cruiser.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
It's true that fleet stuff no longer has as much power over the exchange as it once did. I think it's because there are less small to mid-sized fleets and their leaders are less willing to spend thousands to complete things. I just think that a 5 level holding will cause enough spending to move it. It may be as you say more like 230-270. It sounds like they might be gating new content behind these levels as well. We shall see. I generally like all the fleet stuff and the colony looks like what many have been asking for for years. No living quarters but it's still pretty neat.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
That's right... they need to add the T3 and T5s from Temporal Ambassador... I junked my T3 ages ago before Admiralty system... so no card for that... if they dont want to add the ship... at least add the T3 and T5 cards. Uncommon for both the T3 & T5 card due to rare having a T6 card.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
You sure? Cause it's not on the reward list last I checked... only the uniform.
i would assume the same is true for feds
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
** All prizes obtained via this promotion – including Starships – are Bound to Character, and do not result in any Account-Wide Unlocks. Prize Tokens are Account Bound.
Not going to argue more than what it states and what it does NOT state. Any starship prize is bound to character once opened and unpacked. It does not state boxed like it typically does during other promotions. Prize Tokens being account bound just allows any toon to buy/purchase the item doesn't mean the item is bound. Search the exchange for proof of this from other unlocks where people have and are selling these items.
Ultimately I still call foul play and am upset. Very poor wording and if I had known this in advance I would have just wired my friend the money to try and win them himself. At least that way if he didn't get one then that would have been the end of it. But I have the tokens and can claim the ship but I don't want it. Again just disappointed and will just save my money and spend it on another games if this is how it's going to be.
Someone made a list of items still missing from the Phoenix Store a eight months ago. Hopefully, Cryptic can get them added next time.
https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/5g2ns3/list_of_exclusive_items_not_in_the_phoenix_pack/
I have this account unlock, and I'm sure many long-time players do as well, but many newer players wouldn't. Also, I don't understand why the KDF never got an equivalent account unlock for the T5 Kamarag.
That is odd.
Hmmmm..it makes me feel that I may have taken in some of that potent "Cryptic Hates KDF" red Kool-aid after hearing of this this one. Not a good feeling, I must say.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin