> @echatty said: > markhawkman wrote: » > > warpangel wrote: » > > fiberteksyfir wrote: » > > It's a funny thing about gear drops. Every MMO I've played usually revolves around killing Uber dungeon boss, hoping he drops the Uber l00tz, and hoping you're the person that gets it. That's how you keep people playing content. That's how the old STFs worked before rep and it was both hellafun and hellarewarding when you finally got the purple tech. That is probably the biggest thing I miss in this game is having NPC drops actually be somewhat meaningful.. as it stands there is nothing any npc drops anywhere that anybody actually cares about. If they could revisit that and add unique rare drops again to certain queues maybe people will play them again.. > > > > Exactly. Overcoming challenge and getting a rare drop makes you feel like a winner. > > Diligently doing your chores and saving up to buy the shiny just doesn't compare. > > > > Of course the flipside is that doing something dozens of times and getting nothing to show for it makes you feel like the whole process is a waste of time. And there's no real challenge to doing it repeatedly, just a mindnumbing, soul crushing grind. > > > > > This. > > Talk about a real grind. Grinding for an event ship or favors or trinkets or eppohs/birds/monkeys/ to turn in seems trivial to trying to get one drop out of hundreds of that special piece. > > And with my luck, I would have never gotten it. So yeah, I prefer the rep system.
I wasn't suggesting replacing it, as rep very much has a place and function. But complimenting it with something for the content youre earning the marks in would help. Especially since even the new competitive rep queues are dead because we can get those marks from red alerts (which is another issue and those rewards really should be removed from those queues)
It's a funny thing about gear drops. Every MMO I've played usually revolves around killing Uber dungeon boss, hoping he drops the Uber l00tz, and hoping you're the person that gets it. That's how you keep people playing content. That's how the old STFs worked before rep and it was both hellafun and hellarewarding when you finally got the purple tech. That is probably the biggest thing I miss in this game is having NPC drops actually be somewhat meaningful.. as it stands there is nothing any npc drops anywhere that anybody actually cares about. If they could revisit that and add unique rare drops again to certain queues maybe people will play them again..
Exactly. Overcoming challenge and getting a rare drop makes you feel like a winner.
Diligently doing your chores and saving up to buy the shiny just doesn't compare.
Of course the flipside is that doing something dozens of times and getting nothing to show for it makes you feel like the whole process is a waste of time. And there's no real challenge to doing it repeatedly, just a mindnumbing, soul crushing grind.
This.
Talk about a real grind. Grinding for an event ship or favors or trinkets or eppohs/birds/monkeys/ to turn in seems trivial to trying to get one drop out of hundreds of that special piece.
Right. That's the point. Grinding currency IS trivial. It's just a chore, especially in game like STO where the tasks generally involve no risk or challenge.
And with my luck, I would have never gotten it. So yeah, I prefer the rep system.
I have generally never even wanted most of the rep stuff. It's neither an achievement to get nor needed for anything. I only pick up the ground sets for the costume unlocks.
Compare to when there were still RNG drops I did want all of them, simply because they were hard to get.
well, that's your take on it. My take was that the effort wasn't worth the reward under the old system.
Maybe you don't think so, but in the grand scheme of things it served its purpose and served it well and continues to serve well in virtually every single AAA MMORPG on the market.
It keeps people coming back to play the content, which is something one cannot say for the current system.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
Heck, back when I was a Diablo 2 modder, one of the most popular things was creating a system in the game that made it so people didn't need to pray for the RNG to bless them with that one thing they actually wanted out of the thousands of possible drops.
I other words, cheating.
It's only cheating if you try to do it on the Realm server... and you can't use mods on the Realm. Nope this was all single player or lan multiplayer stuff.
well, that's your take on it. My take was that the effort wasn't worth the reward under the old system.
Maybe you don't think so, but in the grand scheme of things it served its purpose and served it well and continues to serve well in virtually every single AAA MMORPG on the market.
It keeps people coming back to play the content, which is something one cannot say for the current system.
That or they give up and do something less frustrating. I don't think that this alone would make the old STFs popular. back then the STF sets were the best of the best. Now? now people will just play a story mission and get better gear. Hello Na'kuhl shield.
Don't kid yourself, the only reason people bothered grinding their butts off for Mk XII ground gear was for the cosmetics. Back then the stat difference between Mk XI and XII was completely inconsequential even by min-maxing standards.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
well, that's your take on it. My take was that the effort wasn't worth the reward under the old system.
I never bothered with it either. I don't think I ran a single STF during that period.
Neither did I. I still don't run STFs, except on occasion. If I find myself in need of marks I'll run RAs. If I need Elite marks, I 'buy' them every 20 hours from rep. Though I agree they should lower that time limit. Not take it completely away, just have less time between 'purchases'.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
Yeah, I had some Mk X and XI Reputation gear that I had replaced with Mk XII stuff later on. I kept that old stuff until one day I just junked it. Two days later they announced the Item Upgrade System was coming soon to a PC near you.
Before the Level cap increase to 60, I also reran some Missions because I had slotted them at about Level 43 but did not run them until the Character was Level 50. I ended up with Mk X stuff instead of Mk XI or Mk XII.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
If I need Elite marks, I 'buy' them every 20 hours from rep. Though I agree they should lower that time limit. Not take it completely away, just have less time between 'purchases'.
That's what I did with the Assessed Stratagems, from the Competitive Rep. I have the entire Prevailing Regalia space set at Epic (6 pieces in total), plus the full Duelist Regalia Ground Set, and the full Obfuscated Strategist Set (Ground set just for the costume unlock). All-in-all, a sea of required Assessed Stratagems, all grinded (I refuse to say 'ground', which feels like a very awkward Past Tense to me) during MIA, at 100 Marks a pop. Those were the weeks of Hell, but I got it all, without ever firing a single shot in PvP.
Yeah, I had some Mk X and XI Reputation gear that I had replaced with Mk XII stuff later on. I kept that old stuff until one day I just junked it. Two days later they announced the Item Upgrade System was coming soon to a PC near you.
Before the Level cap increase to 60, I also reran some Missions because I had slotted them at about Level 43 but did not run them until the Character was Level 50. I ended up with Mk X stuff instead of Mk XI or Mk XII.
I still have some really old trinkets. Stuff like the Romulan phaser pistol from the old Romulan story arc. This one is mk2 though.
If I need Elite marks, I 'buy' them every 20 hours from rep. Though I agree they should lower that time limit. Not take it completely away, just have less time between 'purchases'.
That's what I did with the Assessed Stratagems, from the Competitive Rep. I have the entire Prevailing Regalia space set at Epic (6 pieces in total), plus the full Duelist Regalia Ground Set, and the full Obfuscated Strategist Set (Ground set just for the costume unlock). All-in-all, a sea of required Assessed Stratagems, all grinded (I refuse to say 'ground', which feels like a very awkward Past Tense to me) during MIA, at 100 Marks a pop. Those were the weeks of Hell, but I got it all, without ever firing a single shot in PvP.
That's how I do most of my elite marks. Once in awhile I'll do the Kobali ground one for the Delta/Iconian ones when I 'feel' like it.
But mostly I'll just use the upgrade slot to get the elite marks and run RAs to get extra marks if I need them.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
> @fiberteksyfir said: > It's a funny thing about gear drops. Every MMO I've played usually revolves around killing Uber dungeon boss, hoping he drops the Uber l00tz, and hoping you're the person that gets it. That's how you keep people playing content. That's how the old STFs worked before rep and it was both hellafun and hellarewarding when you finally got the purple tech. That is probably the biggest thing I miss in this game is having NPC drops actually be somewhat meaningful.. as it stands there is nothing any npc drops anywhere that anybody actually cares about. If they could revisit that and add unique rare drops again to certain queues maybe people will play them again..
Yes, yes and a dozen times yes.
> @markhawkman said: > Of course the flipside is that doing something dozens of times and getting nothing to show for it makes you feel like the whole process is a waste of time. And there's no real challenge to doing it repeatedly, just a mindnumbing, soul crushing grind. > > Heck, back when I was a Diablo 2 modder, one of the most popular things was creating a system in the game that made it so people didn't need to pray for the RNG to bless them with that one thing they actually wanted out of the thousands of possible drops.
Of course, that's how the game works. This is like "modding" a 100% success chance on rolls in tabletop inspired games like XCOM because you don't like random chance - in that case the game is simply not for you.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
> @fiberteksyfir said:
> It's a funny thing about gear drops. Every MMO I've played usually revolves around killing Uber dungeon boss, hoping he drops the Uber l00tz, and hoping you're the person that gets it. That's how you keep people playing content. That's how the old STFs worked before rep and it was both hellafun and hellarewarding when you finally got the purple tech. That is probably the biggest thing I miss in this game is having NPC drops actually be somewhat meaningful.. as it stands there is nothing any npc drops anywhere that anybody actually cares about. If they could revisit that and add unique rare drops again to certain queues maybe people will play them again..
Yes, yes and a dozen times yes.
> @markhawkman said:
> Of course the flipside is that doing something dozens of times and getting nothing to show for it makes you feel like the whole process is a waste of time. And there's no real challenge to doing it repeatedly, just a mindnumbing, soul crushing grind.
>
> Heck, back when I was a Diablo 2 modder, one of the most popular things was creating a system in the game that made it so people didn't need to pray for the RNG to bless them with that one thing they actually wanted out of the thousands of possible drops.
Of course, that's how the game works. This is like "modding" a 100% success chance on rolls in tabletop inspired games like XCOM because you don't like random chance - in that case the game is simply not for you.
You have no idea how the system people made for Diablo 2 worked do you? It didn't give guaranteed drops. You still had to find stuff. But... If you didn't get the exact item you wanted you could take amterials collected and use them to make it, if you found the right parts.
Comments
> markhawkman wrote: »
>
> warpangel wrote: »
>
> fiberteksyfir wrote: »
>
> It's a funny thing about gear drops. Every MMO I've played usually revolves around killing Uber dungeon boss, hoping he drops the Uber l00tz, and hoping you're the person that gets it. That's how you keep people playing content. That's how the old STFs worked before rep and it was both hellafun and hellarewarding when you finally got the purple tech. That is probably the biggest thing I miss in this game is having NPC drops actually be somewhat meaningful.. as it stands there is nothing any npc drops anywhere that anybody actually cares about. If they could revisit that and add unique rare drops again to certain queues maybe people will play them again..
>
>
>
> Exactly. Overcoming challenge and getting a rare drop makes you feel like a winner.
>
> Diligently doing your chores and saving up to buy the shiny just doesn't compare.
>
>
>
> Of course the flipside is that doing something dozens of times and getting nothing to show for it makes you feel like the whole process is a waste of time. And there's no real challenge to doing it repeatedly, just a mindnumbing, soul crushing grind.
>
>
>
>
> This.
>
> Talk about a real grind. Grinding for an event ship or favors or trinkets or eppohs/birds/monkeys/ to turn in seems trivial to trying to get one drop out of hundreds of that special piece.
>
> And with my luck, I would have never gotten it. So yeah, I prefer the rep system.
I wasn't suggesting replacing it, as rep very much has a place and function. But complimenting it with something for the content youre earning the marks in would help. Especially since even the new competitive rep queues are dead because we can get those marks from red alerts (which is another issue and those rewards really should be removed from those queues)
I have generally never even wanted most of the rep stuff. It's neither an achievement to get nor needed for anything. I only pick up the ground sets for the costume unlocks.
Compare to when there were still RNG drops I did want all of them, simply because they were hard to get.
My character Tsin'xing
Maybe you don't think so, but in the grand scheme of things it served its purpose and served it well and continues to serve well in virtually every single AAA MMORPG on the market.
It keeps people coming back to play the content, which is something one cannot say for the current system.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
I never bothered with it either. I don't think I ran a single STF during that period.
No kidding it is useless TRIBBLE right now.
Neither did I. I still don't run STFs, except on occasion. If I find myself in need of marks I'll run RAs. If I need Elite marks, I 'buy' them every 20 hours from rep. Though I agree they should lower that time limit. Not take it completely away, just have less time between 'purchases'.
Before the Level cap increase to 60, I also reran some Missions because I had slotted them at about Level 43 but did not run them until the Character was Level 50. I ended up with Mk X stuff instead of Mk XI or Mk XII.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
That's what I did with the Assessed Stratagems, from the Competitive Rep. I have the entire Prevailing Regalia space set at Epic (6 pieces in total), plus the full Duelist Regalia Ground Set, and the full Obfuscated Strategist Set (Ground set just for the costume unlock). All-in-all, a sea of required Assessed Stratagems, all grinded (I refuse to say 'ground', which feels like a very awkward Past Tense to me) during MIA, at 100 Marks a pop. Those were the weeks of Hell, but I got it all, without ever firing a single shot in PvP.
My character Tsin'xing
That's how I do most of my elite marks. Once in awhile I'll do the Kobali ground one for the Delta/Iconian ones when I 'feel' like it.
But mostly I'll just use the upgrade slot to get the elite marks and run RAs to get extra marks if I need them.
> It's a funny thing about gear drops. Every MMO I've played usually revolves around killing Uber dungeon boss, hoping he drops the Uber l00tz, and hoping you're the person that gets it. That's how you keep people playing content. That's how the old STFs worked before rep and it was both hellafun and hellarewarding when you finally got the purple tech. That is probably the biggest thing I miss in this game is having NPC drops actually be somewhat meaningful.. as it stands there is nothing any npc drops anywhere that anybody actually cares about. If they could revisit that and add unique rare drops again to certain queues maybe people will play them again..
Yes, yes and a dozen times yes.
> @markhawkman said:
> Of course the flipside is that doing something dozens of times and getting nothing to show for it makes you feel like the whole process is a waste of time. And there's no real challenge to doing it repeatedly, just a mindnumbing, soul crushing grind.
>
> Heck, back when I was a Diablo 2 modder, one of the most popular things was creating a system in the game that made it so people didn't need to pray for the RNG to bless them with that one thing they actually wanted out of the thousands of possible drops.
Of course, that's how the game works. This is like "modding" a 100% success chance on rolls in tabletop inspired games like XCOM because you don't like random chance - in that case the game is simply not for you.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
My character Tsin'xing