As long as we get a chance for a KDF version of Cutting the cord (you know, that scene) , I'll be happy (more so if it turns out our favourite 'armless Iconian is the one dealing due to the other icos not supplying her war)
More so if we kill Torg whilst the snivelling targ runt begs for his life, offering riches like a lowly ferengi...or an enforced bat'leth (or a certain dagger, hint, hint) battle one on one
That said, did we ever find out what happened to the true sword of Khaless? (Looking at Saurials Iconians) ..was it beamed out with us or will we find T'ket has it as a new arm we need to tear off?
I doubt T'ket would ever work with the Klingons, even rogue ones.
The allies will be the Son'a, and maybe remnants of the Tal Shiar, or something. Since they worked together before.
As for the sword, no, as far as we know, its still in that Iconian base where Kahless dropped it when he died.
The Iconians used the Tal Shiar for their own ends, but that was through a dupe, so they wouldn't have to have direct contact with the Romulans. T'Ket remembers the Romulans, recognizing Sela as one, even before leaving their homeworld. Her hatred hasn't diminished.
We got to remember that klingon honor is largely "external honor" meaning how honorble others see you, opposed to internal honor meaning how well you think you fit a certain code of honor you've set to yourself. While those 2 definations aren't mutually exclusive, they're not the same thing either, a cleaver and charismatic politician might have a lot of external honor due being able to explain away any cases of him seeming to break the cultural code of honor, but have little to no internal honor (either due to not really having a personal code of honor or simply not following it).
That's not complicated at all, it's pretty much how all societal honor codes have worked, most noteably in this case, that of Samurai Japan, where they talked about the importance of honor and all, but spent an awful lot of time backstabbing each other.
Klingon Honor Culture is essentially a facelift of Asian Face Culture.
Well I suppose "not fully logical" would be better way of putting it, my point was that just because Torg did something dishonorble or was deemed dishonorble by the High Council doesn't mean all klingons will think he has lost his honor. It's not a simple matter of do this and you loose x amount of honor points and if loose all of those you are seen as having lost your honor. There a lot more "maybe"s or "what if"s in mix and it's not straight forward at all like no real life societal honor system was.
We got to remember that klingon honor is largely "external honor" meaning how honorble others see you, opposed to internal honor meaning how well you think you fit a certain code of honor you've set to yourself. While those 2 definations aren't mutually exclusive, they're not the same thing either, a cleaver and charismatic politician might have a lot of external honor due being able to explain away any cases of him seeming to break the cultural code of honor, but have little to no internal honor (either due to not really having a personal code of honor or simply not following it).
That's not complicated at all, it's pretty much how all societal honor codes have worked, most noteably in this case, that of Samurai Japan, where they talked about the importance of honor and all, but spent an awful lot of time backstabbing each other.
Klingon Honor Culture is essentially a facelift of Asian Face Culture.
Well I suppose "not fully logical" would be better way of putting it, my point was that just because Torg did something dishonorble or was deemed dishonorble by the High Council doesn't mean all klingons will think he has lost his honor. It's not a simple matter of do this and you loose x amount of honor points and if loose all of those you are seen as having lost your honor. There a lot more "maybe"s or "what if"s in mix and it's not straight forward at all like no real life societal honor system was.
A matter of perspective, for sure. One person's dishonourable act is another's justifiable one.
We got to remember that klingon honor is largely "external honor" meaning how honorble others see you, opposed to internal honor meaning how well you think you fit a certain code of honor you've set to yourself. While those 2 definations aren't mutually exclusive, they're not the same thing either, a cleaver and charismatic politician might have a lot of external honor due being able to explain away any cases of him seeming to break the cultural code of honor, but have little to no internal honor (either due to not really having a personal code of honor or simply not following it).
That's not complicated at all, it's pretty much how all societal honor codes have worked, most noteably in this case, that of Samurai Japan, where they talked about the importance of honor and all, but spent an awful lot of time backstabbing each other.
Klingon Honor Culture is essentially a facelift of Asian Face Culture.
Well I suppose "not fully logical" would be better way of putting it, my point was that just because Torg did something dishonorble or was deemed dishonorble by the High Council doesn't mean all klingons will think he has lost his honor. It's not a simple matter of do this and you loose x amount of honor points and if loose all of those you are seen as having lost your honor. There a lot more "maybe"s or "what if"s in mix and it's not straight forward at all like no real life societal honor system was.
A matter of perspective, for sure. One person's dishonourable act is another's justifiable one.
Such laws are intentionally vague they wouldn't work otherwise, since the rules would have to specific to such insane level of detail that it wouldn't viable to write a working set of rules without it having so many exploitble holes in it as to be essentially worthless. So laws (and the klingon code of honor is essentially that) are writen in vague generalist sense so they won't match any specific case 100% but they match most cases close enough for the laws to work.
Seventeen years is a long time ago, and Martok may fill the spot better than many other candidates for the tormented prisoner. But it occurs to me to ask: what ever happened to K'mtar? Not Alexander, who died in game, but K'mtar who watched Worf die then went back in time to teach Alexander to be a warrior.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Yes, but he existed in the same reality with his younger self for a time, then went away at the end of the episode, presumably back to the reality from which he came. The defining event was the death of Worf in his reality, and the death of 'young' Alexander in ours. Therefore we have different Alexanders, one of whom we saw die.
Thus, we have young Alexander, and Alexander who was from the future. K'mtar's time traveling may have brought him to a point in time before Worf's death in an effort to stop it, resulting in his capture by Torg, giving Torg a victim upon whom to take out his frustration because he can no longer reach the Alexander who helped us defeat Torg. (Because, you know, dead.)
We got to remember that klingon honor is largely "external honor" meaning how honorble others see you, opposed to internal honor meaning how well you think you fit a certain code of honor you've set to yourself. While those 2 definations aren't mutually exclusive, they're not the same thing either, a cleaver and charismatic politician might have a lot of external honor due being able to explain away any cases of him seeming to break the cultural code of honor, but have little to no internal honor (either due to not really having a personal code of honor or simply not following it).
That's not complicated at all, it's pretty much how all societal honor codes have worked, most noteably in this case, that of Samurai Japan, where they talked about the importance of honor and all, but spent an awful lot of time backstabbing each other.
Klingon Honor Culture is essentially a facelift of Asian Face Culture.
Really, I don't describe it as external versus internal honor, I describe it as "seeking glory" versus "being honorable". This is why I continually say that the Klingon Empire has had none since roughly TOS, barring Martok's administration. Marc Okrand wrote that tlhIngan Hol even has two different words for them.
quv is "a sort of personal honor, the kind over which, by one's behavior, one has some control. This sort of honor is earned, can be bestowed on one, and is associated with reputation, dignity, and respect."
Whereas actual batlh, the Klingon ideal of honor, actually hews more towards the Worf interpretation. "[It] is a grander, more general, more philosophical concept, associated with integrity, rectitude, scruples, and principles."
Notice, by the way, which of the two words is included in the name of a certain style of Klingon sword.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
The Iconians used the Tal Shiar for their own ends, but that was through a dupe, so they wouldn't have to have direct contact with the Romulans. T'Ket remembers the Romulans, recognizing Sela as one, even before leaving their homeworld. Her hatred hasn't diminished.
Well I suppose "not fully logical" would be better way of putting it, my point was that just because Torg did something dishonorble or was deemed dishonorble by the High Council doesn't mean all klingons will think he has lost his honor. It's not a simple matter of do this and you loose x amount of honor points and if loose all of those you are seen as having lost your honor. There a lot more "maybe"s or "what if"s in mix and it's not straight forward at all like no real life societal honor system was.
A matter of perspective, for sure. One person's dishonourable act is another's justifiable one.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Yes, but he existed in the same reality with his younger self for a time, then went away at the end of the episode, presumably back to the reality from which he came. The defining event was the death of Worf in his reality, and the death of 'young' Alexander in ours. Therefore we have different Alexanders, one of whom we saw die.
Thus, we have young Alexander, and Alexander who was from the future. K'mtar's time traveling may have brought him to a point in time before Worf's death in an effort to stop it, resulting in his capture by Torg, giving Torg a victim upon whom to take out his frustration because he can no longer reach the Alexander who helped us defeat Torg. (Because, you know, dead.)
Notice, by the way, which of the two words is included in the name of a certain style of Klingon sword.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/