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Is there any indication as to what 2210s starfleet uniforms looked like?

Related to story idea (kind of a sequal for the mission I was working) I was wondering is the any indications in canon Trek as to what the Starfleet uniforms in looked like in the 2210s (or simply in the early 23rd century)?

And yes I know about the Franklin and Kelvin uniforms but those for 2160s and 2230s with no indication when the switch happend or if there was another uniform in use between them (and being from the new movies I'm pretty sure they're unuseble in Foundry anyway).

Best Answer

  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,613 Arc User
    Accepted Answer
    The only roadblock to using Kelvin Timeline uniforms in the Foundry is simply them not being enabled (yet) in the editor (as with a number of more recent costumes). We have Kelvin Timeline ships, they are perfectly acceptable to use because they are a part of Star Trek Online. The game is covered by the EULA.

    As for 2210 uniforms, I think you'll need to use your imagination or decide on canon uniforms from either ENT or (more likely) TOS. If the uniform transition wasn't shown during the run of a series then it's up to conjecture when a given change happened or if there were additional traditional steps. Extended universe material might cover the time period in question (I have no idea myself) but if there was a different design for this era then it would have equal weight in STO to anything you could create yourself. STO canon is franchise canon plus itself.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

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Answers

  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,424 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    The only roadblock to using Kelvin Timeline uniforms in the Foundry is simply them not being enabled (yet) in the editor (as with a number of more recent costumes). We have Kelvin Timeline ships, they are perfectly acceptable to use because they are a part of Star Trek Online. The game is covered by the EULA.

    As for 2210 uniforms, I think you'll need to use your imagination or decide on canon uniforms from either ENT or (more likely) TOS. If the uniform transition wasn't shown during the run of a series then it's up to conjecture when a given change happened or if there were additional traditional steps. Extended universe material might cover the time period in question (I have no idea myself) but if there was a different design for this era then it would have equal weight in STO to anything you could create yourself. STO canon is franchise canon plus itself.
    I'll probably do a mix of the ENT and TOS styles if there's no canon style to drawn upon with maybe hints of the style of uniforms used by the Franklin crew and within the the limits of what you can do in the foundry.

    I couldn't find any canon uniform style for that era in Memory Alpha but it's still fan created and maintained so if there was obscure image or mention of style for that era is might not be there (granted Memory Alpha is really extensive).

    Also I thought the Bad Robot movies were still off-limits apart from things that are in STO atm.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,613 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Also I thought the Bad Robot movies were still off-limits apart from things that are in STO atm.

    They totally were off limits prior to their inclusion in STO. Now we have the Kelvin Timeline in game, it is something authors can use and reference. STO is covered by the EULA.

    However until there's a EULA update to include the KT moves by name, authors still may want to be careful about basing Foundry missions on places and events exclusively seen in the KT movies, not referenced by the STO KT content, and can't be logically deduced from STO KT content. Ex. Yorktown station. But they can work with the ships, uniforms (if we get them), and the general parameters of the universe (at least as defined by STO.) The rest is just a grey area ATM.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

    For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    edited May 2017
    @spiritborn

    Most likely the Kelvin ones (i.e. the ones worn on the Kelvin not the Kelvin Timeline ones). The Kelvin is clearly on a long term mission when it gets destroyed in the 2230s as the entire ship is in awful repair (both the inside and outside are very worn and industrial) and it's carrying 600 or so extra passengers (presumably colonists). Unlike Kirk's 5 year mission where the ship is kept repaired and restocked by visiting Starbases every so often it dosn't look like the Kelvin has that opportunity.

    So for the ship to get into that general state it'd probably be more than five years so they've stopped at a Starbase in that time they're more likely to get all that exposed wiring in the shuttlebay sorted out before getting new uniforms on so they're most likely wearing the style they set off in and (due to the state of the ship) I can easily see that being over a decade ago.

    Edit: Kelvin uniforms are very easy to make in the Foundry as well...
    34363525646_d799cde84e_o.png
    uss-kelvin-crew-member-costume1.jpg

    There are differences, the piping cannot be coloured darker than the top, you cannot use sleeve ranks, the belt is not accurate and does not go into the trousers waistband, and the footwear is different, but for a casual mockup it still works.​​
    Post edited by artan42 on
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,424 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    artan42 wrote: »
    @spiritborn

    Most likely the Kelvin ones (i.e. the ones worn on the Kelvin not the Kelvin Timeline ones). The Kelvin is clearly on a long term mission when it gets destroyed in the 2230s as the entire ship is in awful repair (both the inside and outside are very worn and industrial) and it's carrying 600 or so extra passengers (presumably colonists). Unlike Kirk's 5 year mission where the ship is kept repaired and restocked by visiting Starbases every so often it dosn't look like the Kelvin has that opportunity.

    So for the ship to get into that general state it'd probably be more than five years so they've stopped at a Starbase in that time they're more likely to get all that exposed wiring in the shuttlebay sorted out before getting new uniforms on so they're most likely wearing the style they set off in and (due to the state of the ship) I can easily see that being over a decade ago.

    Edit: Kelvin uniforms are very easy to make in the Foundry as well...

    *snip image*

    There are differences, the piping cannot be coloured darker than the top, you cannot use sleeve ranks, the belt is not accurate and does not go into the trousers waistband, and the footwear is different, but for a casual mockup it still works.​​
    That does look good, only problem I can see with that is that ST09 is still a bit of a grey area in terms of rights apart from the parts that are in-game like the alt connie.

    EDIT:I wonder if the "All good things"-top work better then the season 1 TNG-top
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    spiritborn wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    @spiritborn

    Most likely the Kelvin ones (i.e. the ones worn on the Kelvin not the Kelvin Timeline ones). The Kelvin is clearly on a long term mission when it gets destroyed in the 2230s as the entire ship is in awful repair (both the inside and outside are very worn and industrial) and it's carrying 600 or so extra passengers (presumably colonists). Unlike Kirk's 5 year mission where the ship is kept repaired and restocked by visiting Starbases every so often it dosn't look like the Kelvin has that opportunity.

    So for the ship to get into that general state it'd probably be more than five years so they've stopped at a Starbase in that time they're more likely to get all that exposed wiring in the shuttlebay sorted out before getting new uniforms on so they're most likely wearing the style they set off in and (due to the state of the ship) I can easily see that being over a decade ago.

    Edit: Kelvin uniforms are very easy to make in the Foundry as well...

    *snip image*

    There are differences, the piping cannot be coloured darker than the top, you cannot use sleeve ranks, the belt is not accurate and does not go into the trousers waistband, and the footwear is different, but for a casual mockup it still works.
    That does look good, only problem I can see with that is that ST09 is still a bit of a grey area in terms of rights apart from the parts that are in-game like the alt connie.

    EDIT:I wonder if the "All good things"-top work better then the season 1 TNG-top

    Cryptic now has the rights to use material from 09 and ID, that's how we were able to get the Konstitution, the uniforms, and the Admiral Uniforms. You might want to message a Dev or CM about it but as the first two films are covered by the games licence I don't see why they aren't covered by the Foundry licence. Because, from what I remeber from Reddit from the release of the KT Lockbox, the rights were for the films not for specific elements and Cryptic just picked that bits they thought would sell the best (weapons, uniforms/costumes, and the main ships).

    As for the AGT top, you could try it but I think the cummerbund part at the bottom and the side fastening throw the look off somewhat. You can colour the piping separately though so there's that.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,424 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    spiritborn wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    @spiritborn

    Most likely the Kelvin ones (i.e. the ones worn on the Kelvin not the Kelvin Timeline ones). The Kelvin is clearly on a long term mission when it gets destroyed in the 2230s as the entire ship is in awful repair (both the inside and outside are very worn and industrial) and it's carrying 600 or so extra passengers (presumably colonists). Unlike Kirk's 5 year mission where the ship is kept repaired and restocked by visiting Starbases every so often it dosn't look like the Kelvin has that opportunity.

    So for the ship to get into that general state it'd probably be more than five years so they've stopped at a Starbase in that time they're more likely to get all that exposed wiring in the shuttlebay sorted out before getting new uniforms on so they're most likely wearing the style they set off in and (due to the state of the ship) I can easily see that being over a decade ago.

    Edit: Kelvin uniforms are very easy to make in the Foundry as well...

    *snip image*

    There are differences, the piping cannot be coloured darker than the top, you cannot use sleeve ranks, the belt is not accurate and does not go into the trousers waistband, and the footwear is different, but for a casual mockup it still works.
    That does look good, only problem I can see with that is that ST09 is still a bit of a grey area in terms of rights apart from the parts that are in-game like the alt connie.

    EDIT:I wonder if the "All good things"-top work better then the season 1 TNG-top

    Cryptic now has the rights to use material from 09 and ID, that's how we were able to get the Konstitution, the uniforms, and the Admiral Uniforms. You might want to message a Dev or CM about it but as the first two films are covered by the games licence I don't see why they aren't covered by the Foundry licence. Because, from what I remeber from Reddit from the release of the KT Lockbox, the rights were for the films not for specific elements and Cryptic just picked that bits they thought would sell the best (weapons, uniforms/costumes, and the main ships).

    As for the AGT top, you could try it but I think the cummerbund part at the bottom and the side fastening throw the look off somewhat. You can colour the piping separately though so there's that.​​
    2 things first what's a cummerbund (sorry english isn't my first language so might not 100% familiar with all english terminology), also I'd rather not have my projects pulled because I crossed the line within a grey area I wasn't aware even existed that's why if there's no specific mention of it in the EULA I'd rather use that if it's not already in-game (like how Micheal Dorn as Worf is an exception to the "do not use the likeness of trek actors" since there's a asset in the foundry for Worf and it uses the updated model with Micheal Dorn's likeness)
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    It's a type of tight, wide, high-waisted, cloth belt, not really accurate but I could't think of any other way to describe the bottom part of the AGT upper.

    As for the rights issues, maybe PM @ambassadorkael#6946 or @tacofangs or Zero (if she's still on the forums), they might be able to help you.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,424 Arc User
    Where did you find that Kelvin uniform mock-up btw seeing as I posted this during a foundry downtime?

    As for the rights it's not a big deal honestly. I'm sure no-one is gonna mind even if I made something up for that time period as long as it was identifible as Starfleet uniform so if I can side-step some questionble rights issues I'd rather do that then waste more time then I need on them.

    Also where I you getting that Kelvin had 600 extra people as far as I know only number ever mentioned in canon is the full crew count (well full apart from the people killed because of the Narada firing on them)
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    edited May 2017
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Where did you find that Kelvin uniform mock-up btw seeing as I posted this during a foundry downtime?

    Special powers...

    :p Nah, I'm using the Tribble Foundry.
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Also where I you getting that Kelvin had 600 extra people as far as I know only number ever mentioned in canon is the full crew count (well full apart from the people killed because of the Narada firing on them)

    The Kelvin has approximately the same internal volume as the TOS Conni (Its saucer is slightly longer but it's thinner, its neck is shorter but thicker, and its secondary hull is longer but more shallow) and you can see in the evacuation scene it carries an absolute maximum of 20 shuttles that seem to also be about the size of the Class F, meaning you can cram about 10 people on there at a push.
    As Pike said Kirk's dad saved 800 lives, you're only going to be able to push about 500 crew on (as with the Constellation) due to physical size, but as the ship has no escape pods and only shuttles even the same 400 as the Constitution is a bit of a push, so those extra people can't be crew. There's the physical space to store them if you crammed them all in the mess halls or something but if they were crew they'd need evacuation space for them and the Kelvin can't physically hold enough shuttles.

    Edit: I didn't mean 600 extras, I meant about 4 or 500. I was remembering a lower crew count for the TOS Conni.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,424 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Also where I you getting that Kelvin had 600 extra people as far as I know only number ever mentioned in canon is the full crew count (well full apart from the people killed because of the Narada firing on them)

    The Kelvin has approximately the same internal volume as the TOS Conni (Its saucer is slightly longer but it's thinner, its neck is shorter but thicker, and its secondary hull is longer but more shallow) and you can see in the evacuation scene it carries an absolute maximum of 20 shuttles that seem to also be about the size of the Class F, meaning you can cram about 10 people on there at a push.
    As Pike said Kirk's dad saved 800 lives, you're only going to be able to push about 500 crew on (as with the Constellation) due to physical size, but as the ship has no escape pods and only shuttles even the same 400 as the Constitution is a bit of a push, so those extra people can't be crew. There's the physical space to store them if you crammed them all in the mess halls or something but if they were crew they'd need evacuation space for them and the Kelvin can't physically hold enough shuttles.

    Edit: I didn't mean 600 extras, I meant about 4 or 500. I was remembering a lower crew count for the TOS Conni.​​
    That sort of makes sense.
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