A hard damage cap is going to do nothing but hurt the game overall. The very people you're complaining about are going to pretty much instantly reach said cap--and with no ability to improve further, they'll have no reason to keep playing the game at all. Cue exodus, and loss of paying customers. Not a good idea.
So what you, and someone else, are saying, is that only high DPS tactical captains pay money? I strongly disagree considering I've given nearly $3,000 to Cryptic, and couldn't care less about DPS so long as I can hold my own in an advanced queue. I also don't have a single tactical captain on my roster.
That said, I think putting a cap, or rather just preventing the additive buffs that tactical captains have from stacking, would perhaps let them take a break from their precious tactical DPS and try another role.
It's amazing really, maybe only once a week I see someone activate Threatening Stance or Attract Fire. Maybe once a week I see someone use Tactical/Engineer/Science Team or Hazard Emitters on another player, I seem to be the only one who really wants to enjoy the game and play it as a team, and I do A LOT of STF's as I'm stock piling marks for... for whatever
Nope i'm against this.It would put a lot of the dps/mini maxer's off the game.
this is the best reason to do it
So chase the whales away and the money they pour into funding STO is the answer. "Jebus" this game is all about killing x NPC's within X time limit. That means its a DPS centric game. You can't beat the clock with a healer/tank or drainer you need firepower.
Its a Kill or be killed game.
If you cap DPS you'll have to cap it at a rate that is the minimum requirement for completing the hardest Elite PvE Map.
This mean teams will still blow throw Normal and Advanced so a cap achieves very little for those maps and difficulty levels as its capped to complete Elite content
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
I don't get why people are concerned over other people's DPS and the desire or even obsession to control those high DPS players.
Since you've not read, let me point it out. In multiplayer situations, your **** high DPS, it affects other peoples game play experience.... That's why. If a person comes into a match that does.. .let's say 200k DPS, and they run around killing everything in mere seconds, before any other player has a chance to kill anything, do you know what happens? Everyone else gets an AFK penalty for not doing damage. Granted I've only seen that done once, but it most certainly happens to new and "poor" players.
I just don't agree that it's a problem that needs to be fixed in this manner. The fix is to educate your fellow man. Teach him that running beam arrays on the front of his ship with turrets on the rear while using target subsystems buff is not desirable. Help him to learn the benefits of using cloned emergency power to weapons while he saves up for his damage control engineers or A2B doffs.
Knowledge is power. Spreading knowledge is the key. Placing limits that destroy revenue streams is not the best path.
And why SHOULDN'T someone be allowed to run a build they want rather than just what the meta for massive DPS demands? STO gives massive amounts of options, but because some things are leagues above everything else (be it gear, abilities, profressions, etc), most things don't get used.
Using your own example, you want to force people down the path of using nearly identical builds with nearly identical DOffs, rather than encourage a variety of builds.
If you can't solve it logically, solve it like a moron.
51 + 1 Foundry Character Slots is NOT enough. Some of us love our characters. If I want to buy more character slots, why can't I? I couldn't experience the entire Delta Recruitment event without deleting a character.
The Iconians themselves can't time travel because their memories revert, but there is nothing to say an Iconian couldn't write everything she needed to do on a PADD, pin it to herself, travel back, read the PADD, do the tasks and return. Or just get one of her Non-Herald underlings to go back in time for her.
Oh yeah, I do Foundry missions for both KDFs and Feds. Just search KSTF (Short for Kinas Special Task Force, where Kinas is the name of the Admiral you will be serving under). The earlier ones are less story based and more combat based, while the later ones have a much heavier story element, but keep the large battles.
People are most likely putting a lot of money in to keys for said high dps gear. If you cap things and curtail the growth of their power the income for Cryptic goes down because most likely these people will stop buying things. Unless the majority is paying $$$ more then the DPS minority might be I doubt anything will change.
I believe the best way to achieve what the OP and many, many others want is a more complicated approach: Give damage in itself diminishing returns.
That way, having invested a lot into damage still gives some benefit, but takes the nonsense out of it.
You mean like how damage resist has diminishing returns and it works fine and can't be pushed into overpowered territory but remains useful? The big problem with this (or anything the reduces the huge gulf between Tacs and Scis/Engs on the DPS front) is that the DPS crowd would hate it (they hate anything that reduces their broken Tac's damage output), and sadly, they are a vocal lot on the forums (and Tribble).
If you can't solve it logically, solve it like a moron.
51 + 1 Foundry Character Slots is NOT enough. Some of us love our characters. If I want to buy more character slots, why can't I? I couldn't experience the entire Delta Recruitment event without deleting a character.
The Iconians themselves can't time travel because their memories revert, but there is nothing to say an Iconian couldn't write everything she needed to do on a PADD, pin it to herself, travel back, read the PADD, do the tasks and return. Or just get one of her Non-Herald underlings to go back in time for her.
Oh yeah, I do Foundry missions for both KDFs and Feds. Just search KSTF (Short for Kinas Special Task Force, where Kinas is the name of the Admiral you will be serving under). The earlier ones are less story based and more combat based, while the later ones have a much heavier story element, but keep the large battles.
Nope i'm against this.It would put a lot of the dps/mini maxer's off the game.
this is the best reason to do it
So chase the whales away and the money they pour into funding STO is the answer. "Jebus" this game is all about killing x NPC's within X time limit. That means its a DPS centric game. You can't beat the clock with a healer/tank or drainer you need firepower.
Its a Kill or be killed game.
If you cap DPS you'll have to cap it at a rate that is the minimum requirement for completing the hardest Elite PvE Map.
This mean teams will still blow throw Normal and Advanced so a cap achieves very little for those maps and difficulty levels as its capped to complete Elite content
Or impose a cap and reduce the bloated HP Elite enemies have, but keep them hitting hard which makes having damage resist and heals required rather than just mashing spacebar and clicking damage buffs.
P.S. I have spent almost as much on STO as I have hours in it, I don't chase DPS.
P.P.S. Tanking is fun.
If you can't solve it logically, solve it like a moron.
51 + 1 Foundry Character Slots is NOT enough. Some of us love our characters. If I want to buy more character slots, why can't I? I couldn't experience the entire Delta Recruitment event without deleting a character.
The Iconians themselves can't time travel because their memories revert, but there is nothing to say an Iconian couldn't write everything she needed to do on a PADD, pin it to herself, travel back, read the PADD, do the tasks and return. Or just get one of her Non-Herald underlings to go back in time for her.
Oh yeah, I do Foundry missions for both KDFs and Feds. Just search KSTF (Short for Kinas Special Task Force, where Kinas is the name of the Admiral you will be serving under). The earlier ones are less story based and more combat based, while the later ones have a much heavier story element, but keep the large battles.
Nope i'm against this.It would put a lot of the dps/mini maxer's off the game.
this is the best reason to do it
If you cap DPS you'll have to cap it at a rate that is the minimum requirement for completing the hardest Elite PvE Map.
This mean teams will still blow throw Normal and Advanced so a cap achieves very little for those maps and difficulty levels as its capped to complete Elite content
Or you cap the dps output of characters based on each difficulty for a que. So you for an example would have an average dps cap/limit of 10-15k dps for normal ques, than for advanced you could have the cap being around 20-30k, and honestly for elite could be left as uncapped giving dps centric players an area they can utilize their builds to their fullest.
I don't get why people are concerned over other people's DPS and the desire or even obsession to control those high DPS players.
Since you've not read, let me point it out. In multiplayer situations, your **** high DPS, it affects other peoples game play experience.... That's why. If a person comes into a match that does.. .let's say 200k DPS, and they run around killing everything in mere seconds, before any other player has a chance to kill anything, do you know what happens? Everyone else gets an AFK penalty for not doing damage. Granted I've only seen that done once, but it most certainly happens to new and "poor" players.
I just don't agree that it's a problem that needs to be fixed in this manner. The fix is to educate your fellow man. Teach him that running beam arrays on the front of his ship with turrets on the rear while using target subsystems buff is not desirable. Help him to learn the benefits of using cloned emergency power to weapons while he saves up for his damage control engineers or A2B doffs.
Knowledge is power. Spreading knowledge is the key. Placing limits that destroy revenue streams is not the best path.
And why SHOULDN'T someone be allowed to run a build they want rather than just what the meta for massive DPS demands? STO gives massive amounts of options, but because some things are leagues above everything else (be it gear, abilities, profressions, etc), most things don't get used.
Using your own example, you want to force people down the path of using nearly identical builds with nearly identical DOffs, rather than encourage a variety of builds.
You're purposely misrepresenting my words.
People can run whatever build they want, even if it's terrible. However, it's my duty to help others out when they are struggling. It's also my duty to help them in a courteous manner. If they decline the help that's fine. What's not fine is going around complaining about others being essentially "too good" and then not accepting help from others.
And really now, a DPS cap is a typical lazy suggestion to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
I don't get why people are concerned over other people's DPS and the desire or even obsession to control those high DPS players.
Since you've not read, let me point it out. In multiplayer situations, your **** high DPS, it affects other peoples game play experience.... That's why. If a person comes into a match that does.. .let's say 200k DPS, and they run around killing everything in mere seconds, before any other player has a chance to kill anything, do you know what happens? Everyone else gets an AFK penalty for not doing damage. Granted I've only seen that done once, but it most certainly happens to new and "poor" players.
I just don't agree that it's a problem that needs to be fixed in this manner. The fix is to educate your fellow man. Teach him that running beam arrays on the front of his ship with turrets on the rear while using target subsystems buff is not desirable. Help him to learn the benefits of using cloned emergency power to weapons while he saves up for his damage control engineers or A2B doffs.
Knowledge is power. Spreading knowledge is the key. Placing limits that destroy revenue streams is not the best path.
And why SHOULDN'T someone be allowed to run a build they want rather than just what the meta for massive DPS demands? STO gives massive amounts of options, but because some things are leagues above everything else (be it gear, abilities, profressions, etc), most things don't get used.
Using your own example, you want to force people down the path of using nearly identical builds with nearly identical DOffs, rather than encourage a variety of builds.
You're purposely misrepresenting my words.
People can run whatever build they want, even if it's terrible. However, it's my duty to help others out when they are struggling. It's also my duty to help them in a courteous manner. If they decline the help that's fine. What's not fine is going around complaining about others being essentially "too good" and then not accepting help from others.
And really now, a DPS cap is a typical lazy suggestion to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
High DPS doesn't mean anyone is too good. In fact, you don't even have to have a decent build, or even any skill whatsoever. All you need is a tactical captain and some MK XII purple gear and you can push out 40k-50k or more easy. I did this on a Romulan a few months back when CLR was doing their DPS challenge. No effort at all, a fresh lvl 50 and less than 5 mill worth of exchange parts got me just over 48k DPS, and I didn't even know what the heck I was doing because I don't and haven't played tactical. That's slightly more than my full rep, full accolade, full epic tanked engineer's average and he has very good offensive stats including 20% CritH, 110% CrtD 250% power trans and so on, on top of keeping a constant uptime of Delta Prime and FAW. Put that same build on a tactical, guarantee it will do 150k+ each, that's post update, 200k+ pre update.
So yes, it is a problem when one class can use the exact same build and get 4 or 5 times more DPS. And it's all due to their built in 5 extremely overpowered abilities.
So yes, it is a problem when one class can use the exact same build and get 4 or 5 times more DPS. And it's all due to their built in 5 extremely overpowered abilities.
That's a completely made up number. The difference isn't that great now and wasn't that great before the re-balance.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
So yes, it is a problem when one class can use the exact same build and get 4 or 5 times more DPS. And it's all due to their built in 5 extremely overpowered abilities.
That's a completely made up number. The difference isn't that great now and wasn't that great before the re-balance.
Yes it most certainly is. I tested it myself, along with a couple fellow fleet members. A tactical captains buffs *allowed* for 4-5 times more DPS. Explain how tacticals were pushing out more than 400k, 500k? How are they doing that when an engineer with the exact same gear WAS pushing out 80k at best? Has it slimmed down since then? Yeah sure, SOME. But I guarantee you tacticals can still push out more than triple the DPS with the exact same setup. You're doing little more than denying that tacticals do absurd DPS. I was just in ISA with two tacticals both doing over 110k, both died mid game, cutting DPS dramatically.
So yes, it is a problem when one class can use the exact same build and get 4 or 5 times more DPS. And it's all due to their built in 5 extremely overpowered abilities.
That's a completely made up number. The difference isn't that great now and wasn't that great before the re-balance.
Yes it most certainly is. I tested it myself, along with a couple fellow fleet members. A tactical captains buffs *allowed* for 4-5 times more DPS. Explain how tacticals were pushing out more than 400k, 500k? How are they doing that when an engineer with the exact same gear WAS pushing out 80k at best? Has it slimmed down since then? Yeah sure, SOME. But I guarantee you tacticals can still push out more than triple the DPS with the exact same setup. You're doing little more than denying that tacticals do absurd DPS. I was just in ISA with two tacticals both doing over 110k, both died mid game, cutting DPS dramatically.
You are failing to mention that 400-500k was in a very specialized run, running very specialized build that was highly coordinated and scripted down to the second. Also, your examples were pre-S13. You have to look at the current situation now.
So yes, it is a problem when one class can use the exact same build and get 4 or 5 times more DPS. And it's all due to their built in 5 extremely overpowered abilities.
That's a completely made up number. The difference isn't that great now and wasn't that great before the re-balance.
Yes it most certainly is. I tested it myself, along with a couple fellow fleet members. A tactical captains buffs *allowed* for 4-5 times more DPS. Explain how tacticals were pushing out more than 400k, 500k? How are they doing that when an engineer with the exact same gear WAS pushing out 80k at best? Has it slimmed down since then? Yeah sure, SOME. But I guarantee you tacticals can still push out more than triple the DPS with the exact same setup. You're doing little more than denying that tacticals do absurd DPS. I was just in ISA with two tacticals both doing over 110k, both died mid game, cutting DPS dramatically.
Sorry to burst your bubble but the old Tactical record was over 500k yes. But the Engineering and Science records were both over 300k. Your math doesn't compute. You're looking at almost 2x the damage in the old system which is quite reasonable actually.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
So yes, it is a problem when one class can use the exact same build and get 4 or 5 times more DPS. And it's all due to their built in 5 extremely overpowered abilities.
That's a completely made up number. The difference isn't that great now and wasn't that great before the re-balance.
Yes it most certainly is. I tested it myself, along with a couple fellow fleet members. A tactical captains buffs *allowed* for 4-5 times more DPS. Explain how tacticals were pushing out more than 400k, 500k? How are they doing that when an engineer with the exact same gear WAS pushing out 80k at best? Has it slimmed down since then? Yeah sure, SOME. But I guarantee you tacticals can still push out more than triple the DPS with the exact same setup. You're doing little more than denying that tacticals do absurd DPS. I was just in ISA with two tacticals both doing over 110k, both died mid game, cutting DPS dramatically.
Sorry to burst your bubble but the old Tactical record was over 500k yes. But the Engineering and Science records were both over 300k. Your math doesn't compute. You're looking at almost 2x the damage in the old system which is quite reasonable actually.
Not even remotely close, top tier engineers can barely break 100k in the "old system". Any that managed to hit 300k+ was severely abusing an exploit. But you tactical cry babies can whine and complain and point fingers all you want. You're denying truth to protect your exploits. You people are like 2 year olds that only know how to say "MINE". I'm done with this thread, you people are too clueless and protective of your pathetic broken class. Double is quite reasonable? Sure, if it was 30k. But 300k, 200k, double is a helluva lot. Even 100k breaks the game, so TRIBBLE you and your 500k. Ruining my TRIBBLE game.
You came too late to the party. Major nerfing already took place.
My solution would have been easier, btw: everything above 100K get /dev/null-ed. Then nobody would have suffered anything, except for a handful of people.
So yes, it is a problem when one class can use the exact same build and get 4 or 5 times more DPS. And it's all due to their built in 5 extremely overpowered abilities.
That's a completely made up number. The difference isn't that great now and wasn't that great before the re-balance.
Yes it most certainly is. I tested it myself, along with a couple fellow fleet members. A tactical captains buffs *allowed* for 4-5 times more DPS. Explain how tacticals were pushing out more than 400k, 500k? How are they doing that when an engineer with the exact same gear WAS pushing out 80k at best? Has it slimmed down since then? Yeah sure, SOME. But I guarantee you tacticals can still push out more than triple the DPS with the exact same setup. You're doing little more than denying that tacticals do absurd DPS. I was just in ISA with two tacticals both doing over 110k, both died mid game, cutting DPS dramatically.
Sorry to burst your bubble but the old Tactical record was over 500k yes. But the Engineering and Science records were both over 300k. Your math doesn't compute. You're looking at almost 2x the damage in the old system which is quite reasonable actually.
Not even remotely close, top tier engineers can barely break 100k in the "old system". Any that managed to hit 300k+ was severely abusing an exploit. But you tactical cry babies can whine and complain and point fingers all you want. You're denying truth to protect your exploits. You people are like 2 year olds that only know how to say "MINE". I'm done with this thread, you people are too clueless and protective of your pathetic broken class. Double is quite reasonable? Sure, if it was 30k. But 300k, 200k, double is a helluva lot. Even 100k breaks the game, so **** you and your 500k. Ruining my **** game.
Don't hold back.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Just spitballing: Scale weapon damage on a curve with diminishing returns the same way damage resistance is handled. Scale back energy weapon overcap so that continuous full weapon power is unsustainable. Continuous use of overcap causes ship damage and/or drains shields and/or drains other systems. Raise the energy cost of energy weapons (see previous). Generally, though, there should be no upside without a downside and vice versa.
Sorry but no. I was nowhere near the top Engineers but my Engineer's "Canon" (phasers and a torp fore and aft) tanks were doing well above 100k before the patch. That was hardly an optimized build. One of those ships (a Galaxy) even had Saucer Separation and Eject Warp Plasma
So yes, it is a problem when one class can use the exact same build and get 4 or 5 times more DPS. And it's all due to their built in 5 extremely overpowered abilities.
That's a completely made up number. The difference isn't that great now and wasn't that great before the re-balance.
Yes it most certainly is. I tested it myself, along with a couple fellow fleet members. A tactical captains buffs *allowed* for 4-5 times more DPS. Explain how tacticals were pushing out more than 400k, 500k? How are they doing that when an engineer with the exact same gear WAS pushing out 80k at best? Has it slimmed down since then? Yeah sure, SOME. But I guarantee you tacticals can still push out more than triple the DPS with the exact same setup. You're doing little more than denying that tacticals do absurd DPS. I was just in ISA with two tacticals both doing over 110k, both died mid game, cutting DPS dramatically.
Sorry to burst your bubble but the old Tactical record was over 500k yes. But the Engineering and Science records were both over 300k. Your math doesn't compute. You're looking at almost 2x the damage in the old system which is quite reasonable actually.
Not even remotely close, top tier engineers can barely break 100k in the "old system". Any that managed to hit 300k+ was severely abusing an exploit. But you tactical cry babies can whine and complain and point fingers all you want. You're denying truth to protect your exploits. You people are like 2 year olds that only know how to say "MINE". I'm done with this thread, you people are too clueless and protective of your pathetic broken class. Double is quite reasonable? Sure, if it was 30k. But 300k, 200k, double is a helluva lot. Even 100k breaks the game, so **** you and your 500k. Ruining my **** game.
So when you're presented with the record numbers for all 3 professions, the ones that don't fit your narrative are "exploits."
Ok.
Plus what's this "your class" you speak of? I actually play and enjoy all 3 classes despite the deficiencies of two of them.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Sorry but no. I was nowhere near the top Engineers but my Engineer's "Canon" (phasers and a torp fore and aft) tanks were doing well above 100k before the patch. That was hardly an optimized build. One of those ships (a Galaxy) even had Saucer Separation and Eject Warp Plasma
Against what opponents? I always measure my DPS in Sakari system patrol (Elite difficulty), and get nowhere near such numbers.
The poster I was replying to was referring to ISA numbers, so I did too.
I haven't done Sakari in ages (last time was when you posted the parsing challenge for Sakari Elite). I shifted my solo testing to DPSUF (which would probably be a real pain with the new balance pass).
-Reason. Post duplicated when edited, so this version (with messed up quotes) has been removed.
If you can't solve it logically, solve it like a moron.
51 + 1 Foundry Character Slots is NOT enough. Some of us love our characters. If I want to buy more character slots, why can't I? I couldn't experience the entire Delta Recruitment event without deleting a character.
The Iconians themselves can't time travel because their memories revert, but there is nothing to say an Iconian couldn't write everything she needed to do on a PADD, pin it to herself, travel back, read the PADD, do the tasks and return. Or just get one of her Non-Herald underlings to go back in time for her.
Oh yeah, I do Foundry missions for both KDFs and Feds. Just search KSTF (Short for Kinas Special Task Force, where Kinas is the name of the Admiral you will be serving under). The earlier ones are less story based and more combat based, while the later ones have a much heavier story element, but keep the large battles.
Just spitballing: Scale weapon damage on a curve with diminishing returns the same way damage resistance is handled. Scale back energy weapon overcap so that continuous full weapon power is unsustainable. Continuous use of overcap causes ship damage and/or drains shields and/or drains other systems. Raise the energy cost of energy weapons (see previous). Generally, though, there should be no upside without a downside and vice versa.
Nerfing weapon power drain isn't the way to go, as that will always hurt lower end builds way too much (S13 already did it, and is pretty painful for firing more than 4 weapons (which pretty much any end-game ship will realistically fire at any one time (sci vessel with beams and 2 torps broadsiding, any ship with any form of cannon/turret build, any 5-3 ship firing forwards, etc (all partially down to doubling up on torps being totally useless))) without things like Emergency Power To Weapons and things like Plasmonic Crutch to compensate by going into overcap) and does barely anything to high end builds thanks to overcap (which in essence is making carrying EPtW or a load of Weapons Batteries essential and reducing build choice). However, making damage buffs (or stopping damage buffs from stacking) have diminishing returns would be welcome and stop the bloated damage from buff stacking (which is easiest to do with Tacs).
If you can't solve it logically, solve it like a moron.
51 + 1 Foundry Character Slots is NOT enough. Some of us love our characters. If I want to buy more character slots, why can't I? I couldn't experience the entire Delta Recruitment event without deleting a character.
The Iconians themselves can't time travel because their memories revert, but there is nothing to say an Iconian couldn't write everything she needed to do on a PADD, pin it to herself, travel back, read the PADD, do the tasks and return. Or just get one of her Non-Herald underlings to go back in time for her.
Oh yeah, I do Foundry missions for both KDFs and Feds. Just search KSTF (Short for Kinas Special Task Force, where Kinas is the name of the Admiral you will be serving under). The earlier ones are less story based and more combat based, while the later ones have a much heavier story element, but keep the large battles.
So..in a game where your only objective is to blow stuff up some are mad because some blow up stuff more efficently than others??? Wow.
It's slightly more complicated. Posters are complaining that the "blow stuff up" class doing really well in content who's goal is... "blow stuff up".
Cryptic introduces content that is more complex, and players don't play it, because it is not as "efficient" as... "blowing stuff up".
Other posters are upset that their preferred class is not as good at "blowing stuff up", so the "blowing stuff up" class should be penalized... for doing the one niche thing it is supposed to do.
If players and Cryptic desire the "leave the galaxy in ruin" route for gameplay objectives, then why not increase the "blowing stuff up" potential of the other classes?
Why do dual cannons get screwed over in this? If anything it should be swapped or just remove duals from the game...
They removed the only advantage Dual Cannons had left in the game with this new *revamp*...Heavies are more power efficient and they for some moronic reason get a bonus to crit damage...why the heck should they have every single advantage?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I don't get why people are concerned over other people's DPS and the desire or even obsession to control those high DPS players.
Since you've not read, let me point it out. In multiplayer situations, your **** high DPS, it affects other peoples game play experience.... That's why. If a person comes into a match that does.. .let's say 200k DPS, and they run around killing everything in mere seconds, before any other player has a chance to kill anything, do you know what happens? Everyone else gets an AFK penalty for not doing damage. Granted I've only seen that done once, but it most certainly happens to new and "poor" players.
I just don't agree that it's a problem that needs to be fixed in this manner. The fix is to educate your fellow man. Teach him that running beam arrays on the front of his ship with turrets on the rear while using target subsystems buff is not desirable. Help him to learn the benefits of using cloned emergency power to weapons while he saves up for his damage control engineers or A2B doffs.
Knowledge is power. Spreading knowledge is the key. Placing limits that destroy revenue streams is not the best path.
Yeah...sure...we shouldn't nerf insane rampant DPS because some DPSer claims it's a learning tool! Like I guess we can't teach anyone anything unless you blow everything up in time it takes to blink twice.
Asking a DPS'er if we should nerf DPS is like asking the CEO of Pepsi if we should ban soda because it's unhealthy...never get a straight unbiased answer from them because it will hurt them, no matter how much it actually should be done.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I do not think that is that hard to do. They did well with Korfez IMO for example. I think simply adding the Elites for the popular maps then fixing the reward to time ratio would do wonders in balancing the queues out for older content. Later queues could then move its focus from DPS to something else and still be played since rewards vs time spent is ok.
Right now everyone is so focused on Advanced PVE because it gives the best rewards to time ratio. Of course some people are OP when it comes to advanced content. Ranting over DPS levels because of players vaping things is like ranting over people geared for advanced doing Normal, which would result to the same vaping.
Adjusting content IMO will be a win-win for everyone. You get the challenge you wanted (advanced and elites) and everyone gets the rewards that they deserve in the process. It also gives incentive for high-end players to move to harder content, which solves the issue of vaping content. It also keeps Cryptic's cashflow going, since there is an incentive to building for higher-end setups.
I don't get why people are concerned over other people's DPS and the desire or even obsession to control those high DPS players.
Since you've not read, let me point it out. In multiplayer situations, your **** high DPS, it affects other peoples game play experience.... That's why. If a person comes into a match that does.. .let's say 200k DPS, and they run around killing everything in mere seconds, before any other player has a chance to kill anything, do you know what happens? Everyone else gets an AFK penalty for not doing damage. Granted I've only seen that done once, but it most certainly happens to new and "poor" players.
I just don't agree that it's a problem that needs to be fixed in this manner. The fix is to educate your fellow man. Teach him that running beam arrays on the front of his ship with turrets on the rear while using target subsystems buff is not desirable. Help him to learn the benefits of using cloned emergency power to weapons while he saves up for his damage control engineers or A2B doffs.
Knowledge is power. Spreading knowledge is the key. Placing limits that destroy revenue streams is not the best path.
Yeah...sure...we shouldn't nerf insane rampant DPS because some DPSer claims it's a learning tool! Like I guess we can't teach anyone anything unless you blow everything up in time it takes to blink twice.
Asking a DPS'er if we should nerf DPS is like asking the CEO of Pepsi if we should ban soda because it's unhealthy...never get a straight unbiased answer from them because it will hurt them, no matter how much it actually should be done.
What does any of this have to do with my post that you quoted? I'm not a DPSer.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Personally I don't think a cap will make any difference unless it was done with the sole affect of limiting ships based on how they "should be" (entirely subjective I know).
The perfect example is the ridiculousness escorts can acquire. T6 Escorts broke the game, and it was a move they are unlikely to take back, but all the complaints you see stem from that change and have only built upon this as time has progressed. Many people may think they aren't that big of a deal until you realize that dreadnaughts have the same hard point restrictions. Escorts can have 8 weapon slots and so too do Dreadnaughts. Escorts get all the bonuses with out the downside that a dreadnaught has (speed, inertia, turn speed ect).
Not exactly balanced considering zoom zoom escort compared to the snail that dreadnaughts are. You want balance, you need to look at these things first, the rest would fall into place afterwards. Unless caps are strictly introduce to limit what each ship size, based on mass characteristics [Frigate ---> Dreadnaught (or Battleship if you prefer)] and how they perform because of it, there will NEVER be any semblance of balance in this game.
We can only hope one day they do decide to balance things based on all factors and not just what people are clamoring for on the C-Store.
Comments
So what you, and someone else, are saying, is that only high DPS tactical captains pay money? I strongly disagree considering I've given nearly $3,000 to Cryptic, and couldn't care less about DPS so long as I can hold my own in an advanced queue. I also don't have a single tactical captain on my roster.
That said, I think putting a cap, or rather just preventing the additive buffs that tactical captains have from stacking, would perhaps let them take a break from their precious tactical DPS and try another role.
It's amazing really, maybe only once a week I see someone activate Threatening Stance or Attract Fire. Maybe once a week I see someone use Tactical/Engineer/Science Team or Hazard Emitters on another player, I seem to be the only one who really wants to enjoy the game and play it as a team, and I do A LOT of STF's as I'm stock piling marks for... for whatever
So chase the whales away and the money they pour into funding STO is the answer. "Jebus" this game is all about killing x NPC's within X time limit. That means its a DPS centric game. You can't beat the clock with a healer/tank or drainer you need firepower.
Its a Kill or be killed game.
If you cap DPS you'll have to cap it at a rate that is the minimum requirement for completing the hardest Elite PvE Map.
This mean teams will still blow throw Normal and Advanced so a cap achieves very little for those maps and difficulty levels as its capped to complete Elite content
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
And why SHOULDN'T someone be allowed to run a build they want rather than just what the meta for massive DPS demands? STO gives massive amounts of options, but because some things are leagues above everything else (be it gear, abilities, profressions, etc), most things don't get used.
Using your own example, you want to force people down the path of using nearly identical builds with nearly identical DOffs, rather than encourage a variety of builds.
You mean like how damage resist has diminishing returns and it works fine and can't be pushed into overpowered territory but remains useful? The big problem with this (or anything the reduces the huge gulf between Tacs and Scis/Engs on the DPS front) is that the DPS crowd would hate it (they hate anything that reduces their broken Tac's damage output), and sadly, they are a vocal lot on the forums (and Tribble).
Or impose a cap and reduce the bloated HP Elite enemies have, but keep them hitting hard which makes having damage resist and heals required rather than just mashing spacebar and clicking damage buffs.
P.S. I have spent almost as much on STO as I have hours in it, I don't chase DPS.
P.P.S. Tanking is fun.
Or you cap the dps output of characters based on each difficulty for a que. So you for an example would have an average dps cap/limit of 10-15k dps for normal ques, than for advanced you could have the cap being around 20-30k, and honestly for elite could be left as uncapped giving dps centric players an area they can utilize their builds to their fullest.
People can run whatever build they want, even if it's terrible. However, it's my duty to help others out when they are struggling. It's also my duty to help them in a courteous manner. If they decline the help that's fine. What's not fine is going around complaining about others being essentially "too good" and then not accepting help from others.
And really now, a DPS cap is a typical lazy suggestion to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
High DPS doesn't mean anyone is too good. In fact, you don't even have to have a decent build, or even any skill whatsoever. All you need is a tactical captain and some MK XII purple gear and you can push out 40k-50k or more easy. I did this on a Romulan a few months back when CLR was doing their DPS challenge. No effort at all, a fresh lvl 50 and less than 5 mill worth of exchange parts got me just over 48k DPS, and I didn't even know what the heck I was doing because I don't and haven't played tactical. That's slightly more than my full rep, full accolade, full epic tanked engineer's average and he has very good offensive stats including 20% CritH, 110% CrtD 250% power trans and so on, on top of keeping a constant uptime of Delta Prime and FAW. Put that same build on a tactical, guarantee it will do 150k+ each, that's post update, 200k+ pre update.
So yes, it is a problem when one class can use the exact same build and get 4 or 5 times more DPS. And it's all due to their built in 5 extremely overpowered abilities.
Yes it most certainly is. I tested it myself, along with a couple fellow fleet members. A tactical captains buffs *allowed* for 4-5 times more DPS. Explain how tacticals were pushing out more than 400k, 500k? How are they doing that when an engineer with the exact same gear WAS pushing out 80k at best? Has it slimmed down since then? Yeah sure, SOME. But I guarantee you tacticals can still push out more than triple the DPS with the exact same setup. You're doing little more than denying that tacticals do absurd DPS. I was just in ISA with two tacticals both doing over 110k, both died mid game, cutting DPS dramatically.
You are failing to mention that 400-500k was in a very specialized run, running very specialized build that was highly coordinated and scripted down to the second. Also, your examples were pre-S13. You have to look at the current situation now.
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Not even remotely close, top tier engineers can barely break 100k in the "old system". Any that managed to hit 300k+ was severely abusing an exploit. But you tactical cry babies can whine and complain and point fingers all you want. You're denying truth to protect your exploits. You people are like 2 year olds that only know how to say "MINE". I'm done with this thread, you people are too clueless and protective of your pathetic broken class. Double is quite reasonable? Sure, if it was 30k. But 300k, 200k, double is a helluva lot. Even 100k breaks the game, so TRIBBLE you and your 500k. Ruining my TRIBBLE game.
My solution would have been easier, btw: everything above 100K get /dev/null-ed. Then nobody would have suffered anything, except for a handful of people.
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Ok.
Plus what's this "your class" you speak of? I actually play and enjoy all 3 classes despite the deficiencies of two of them.
The poster I was replying to was referring to ISA numbers, so I did too.
I haven't done Sakari in ages (last time was when you posted the parsing challenge for Sakari Elite). I shifted my solo testing to DPSUF (which would probably be a real pain with the new balance pass).
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Everyone is so fixated on that number, and requesting nerfs based on it.
I do agree it's a bit silly. Since that number only gives relative performance and not absolute performance.
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-Reason. Post duplicated when edited, so this version (with messed up quotes) has been removed.
Nerfing weapon power drain isn't the way to go, as that will always hurt lower end builds way too much (S13 already did it, and is pretty painful for firing more than 4 weapons (which pretty much any end-game ship will realistically fire at any one time (sci vessel with beams and 2 torps broadsiding, any ship with any form of cannon/turret build, any 5-3 ship firing forwards, etc (all partially down to doubling up on torps being totally useless))) without things like Emergency Power To Weapons and things like Plasmonic Crutch to compensate by going into overcap) and does barely anything to high end builds thanks to overcap (which in essence is making carrying EPtW or a load of Weapons Batteries essential and reducing build choice). However, making damage buffs (or stopping damage buffs from stacking) have diminishing returns would be welcome and stop the bloated damage from buff stacking (which is easiest to do with Tacs).
Cryptic introduces content that is more complex, and players don't play it, because it is not as "efficient" as... "blowing stuff up".
Other posters are upset that their preferred class is not as good at "blowing stuff up", so the "blowing stuff up" class should be penalized... for doing the one niche thing it is supposed to do.
If players and Cryptic desire the "leave the galaxy in ruin" route for gameplay objectives, then why not increase the "blowing stuff up" potential of the other classes?
Why do dual cannons get screwed over in this? If anything it should be swapped or just remove duals from the game...
They removed the only advantage Dual Cannons had left in the game with this new *revamp*...Heavies are more power efficient and they for some moronic reason get a bonus to crit damage...why the heck should they have every single advantage?
Yeah...sure...we shouldn't nerf insane rampant DPS because some DPSer claims it's a learning tool! Like I guess we can't teach anyone anything unless you blow everything up in time it takes to blink twice.
Asking a DPS'er if we should nerf DPS is like asking the CEO of Pepsi if we should ban soda because it's unhealthy...never get a straight unbiased answer from them because it will hurt them, no matter how much it actually should be done.
I do not think that is that hard to do. They did well with Korfez IMO for example. I think simply adding the Elites for the popular maps then fixing the reward to time ratio would do wonders in balancing the queues out for older content. Later queues could then move its focus from DPS to something else and still be played since rewards vs time spent is ok.
Right now everyone is so focused on Advanced PVE because it gives the best rewards to time ratio. Of course some people are OP when it comes to advanced content. Ranting over DPS levels because of players vaping things is like ranting over people geared for advanced doing Normal, which would result to the same vaping.
Adjusting content IMO will be a win-win for everyone. You get the challenge you wanted (advanced and elites) and everyone gets the rewards that they deserve in the process. It also gives incentive for high-end players to move to harder content, which solves the issue of vaping content. It also keeps Cryptic's cashflow going, since there is an incentive to building for higher-end setups.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
The perfect example is the ridiculousness escorts can acquire. T6 Escorts broke the game, and it was a move they are unlikely to take back, but all the complaints you see stem from that change and have only built upon this as time has progressed. Many people may think they aren't that big of a deal until you realize that dreadnaughts have the same hard point restrictions. Escorts can have 8 weapon slots and so too do Dreadnaughts. Escorts get all the bonuses with out the downside that a dreadnaught has (speed, inertia, turn speed ect).
Not exactly balanced considering zoom zoom escort compared to the snail that dreadnaughts are. You want balance, you need to look at these things first, the rest would fall into place afterwards. Unless caps are strictly introduce to limit what each ship size, based on mass characteristics [Frigate ---> Dreadnaught (or Battleship if you prefer)] and how they perform because of it, there will NEVER be any semblance of balance in this game.
We can only hope one day they do decide to balance things based on all factors and not just what people are clamoring for on the C-Store.