Just remove all versions of Infected Space, Crystalline Catastrophe and (probably) The Cure Space, and all others that can be DPSed away, and then watch how the queues blossom again.
Oh that makes perfect world sense, remove the queues that people do play to try to force them to play ones they don't want to. Great way to get the servers to close down. You cannot herd players like sheep into STF's they simply don't want to play nor enjoy
Sorry this is a "BAAHHAAD" idea
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Oh that makes perfect world sense, remove the queues that people do play to try to force them to play ones they don't want to. Great way to get the servers to close down. You cannot herd players like sheep into STF's they simply don't want to play nor enjoy
They can do whatever they want with the ques. I can get the majority of my marks from Battlezones and the occasional System Patrol. Not really into the new PvP Rep, so I'm ok with the marks coming from que'd content.
TBF Im a bit the same as above(cant get quote to work) but I suppose thats one of the probs - they just need to make them more interesting or reward for actually playing them
it actually isnt that hard, make a random que like pretty much every other MMO that gives more marks/rewards for joining it, while still having individual ques, just increase the lock out times to an hr.
They also need to lock out normal ques @60 making it just a -59.
the biggest issue, however, is that there is no real reward system, reputation is a terrible system and doesn't encourage people to play STF's.
There is a reason why every other mmo also uses a dungeon, then raid based system, with random drops from bosses.
Being able to play lvl 50 content to gain access to all reputation items is idiotic.
I must confess, the reputation system makes me laugh. It's quite ridiculous when you really think about. I mean basically, the scenario is:
- New enemy appears
- New weapons and tech developed to combat new enemy (i.e new reputation)
- Fight said new enemy using weapons and tech NOT specifically designed to combat new enemy
- Over time, obtain the various items of weapons and tech designed to combat new enemy
- Eventually obtain all parts of the weapons/tech sets designed to combat said new enemy.
By which time you are sick and tired of fighting them.
And seriously, can you imagine if this scenario were in an episode? The only way THAT could play out would be this:
XO: Captain, Starfleet has sent us an update regarding our deadly new enemy, the Whateverians - they've developed weapons and technology designed specifically to be effective against them!
Captain: Excellent! When do we return to spacedock to have them equipped?
XO: We don't Sir.
Captain: We don't? What do you mean?
XO: Our orders are to engage the Whateverians immediately.
Captain: But if Starfleet have developed Tech that is effective against the Whateverians surely it makes sense for that tech to be fitted to our ship?
XO: Sorry Sir - Starfleet's orders are to fight them six times. Starfleet will then let us have a torpedo that is effective against them. We then have to fight them another eight times, at which time we'll be given a deflector......
Captain: Forget Starfleet's tech - by the time we obtain it all we'll have defeated the whateverians anyway.
So you suggest we get the rewards first and then...well why bother playing the content at all.
Great plan.
That isn't what I suggested. I simply said that it's a bit silly fighting enemy X with tech intended to fight enemy Y, in order to obtain equipment to fight enemy X.
Except that... where is this gear going to come from? who is it that has to find the materials needed to build the stuff? you.
Perhaps, if they brought back the Hourlies with a modest bonus to the rewards during a selected queue's featured time, it might be enough to boost participation in dormant queues.
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I've tried to get into quite a few of the queues since the game dropped for consoles and am left with pretty much this same impression. I would like to experience some of the queues but thus far no dice and I won't wait for very long before just dropping out to do other stuff. I do not know what fix would work, but given that the usage data must reflect this, it actually does fall on Cryptic and not the indifferent fanbase. Do SOMETHING to make playing the queues enticing enough to draw back players or to engender excitement in the newbies, or just shut the damn things down? It is not rocket science!
it actually isnt that hard, make a random que like pretty much every other MMO that gives more marks/rewards for joining it, while still having individual ques, just increase the lock out times to an hr.
They also need to lock out normal ques @60 making it just a -59.
the biggest issue, however, is that there is no real reward system, reputation is a terrible system and doesn't encourage people to play STF's.
There is a reason why every other mmo also uses a dungeon, then raid based system, with random drops from bosses.
Being able to play lvl 50 content to gain access to all reputation items is idiotic.
I must confess, the reputation system makes me laugh. It's quite ridiculous when you really think about. I mean basically, the scenario is:
- New enemy appears
- New weapons and tech developed to combat new enemy (i.e new reputation)
- Fight said new enemy using weapons and tech NOT specifically designed to combat new enemy
- Over time, obtain the various items of weapons and tech designed to combat new enemy
- Eventually obtain all parts of the weapons/tech sets designed to combat said new enemy.
By which time you are sick and tired of fighting them.
And seriously, can you imagine if this scenario were in an episode? The only way THAT could play out would be this:
XO: Captain, Starfleet has sent us an update regarding our deadly new enemy, the Whateverians - they've developed weapons and technology designed specifically to be effective against them!
Captain: Excellent! When do we return to spacedock to have them equipped?
XO: We don't Sir.
Captain: We don't? What do you mean?
XO: Our orders are to engage the Whateverians immediately.
Captain: But if Starfleet have developed Tech that is effective against the Whateverians surely it makes sense for that tech to be fitted to our ship?
XO: Sorry Sir - Starfleet's orders are to fight them six times. Starfleet will then let us have a torpedo that is effective against them. We then have to fight them another eight times, at which time we'll be given a deflector......
Captain: Forget Starfleet's tech - by the time we obtain it all we'll have defeated the whateverians anyway.
So you suggest we get the rewards first and then...well why bother playing the content at all.
Great plan.
That isn't what I suggested. I simply said that it's a bit silly fighting enemy X with tech intended to fight enemy Y, in order to obtain equipment to fight enemy X.
Everything is "a bit silly" if you take game mechanics literally like that. Like, say, trading in pets is worth more rep than combat missions. Ridiculous. But that's how games work.
I did take a look at the new queue UI on Tribble and it did initially confuse me that they would remove the boxes showing people who are queued and playing. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me UNLESS they also removed the limit on how many queues we can queue up for at one time.
The current limit is 3 which means, for me anyway, I pick from the 3 I most want to run and hope one pops in a decent amount of time.
If they removed that limit, then I'd just queue up for all the ones I would like to play and go with whatever pops first. Perhaps others would do the same. Who knows, maybe the Gorn Minefield queue would pop more than it currently does.
I guess we'll see what happens in 4 days when Season 13 hits.
Hello. My name is iamynaught and I am an altaholic.
older reps just need to be intergrated into specific episode series, devs didnt realized that they are spreading players with too many outdated ques, most were just focus on newer chapters for new reps.
keep crystal cata as special events, for shards, once a year, all other cyrstal event during the year would only for reps without shard event.
getting reps from episodes are smaller than sheduled event reps for 2x and R&D event reps. it would save devs' time and give players options to do episodes and jump on rep events for extras.
being with fleets and armada will have chances with thier own members has more advanages for reps for doing ques.
I did take a look at the new queue UI on Tribble and it did initially confuse me that they would remove the boxes showing people who are queued and playing. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me UNLESS they also removed the limit on how many queues we can queue up for at one time.
The current limit is 3 which means, for me anyway, I pick from the 3 I most want to run and hope one pops in a decent amount of time.
If they removed that limit, then I'd just queue up for all the ones I would like to play and go with whatever pops first. Perhaps others would do the same. Who knows, maybe the Gorn Minefield queue would pop more than it currently does.
I guess we'll see what happens in 4 days when Season 13 hits.
If they removed the column that shows how many people are queued, then I'm disappointed.
I like playing missions like Infected Ground or Azure Nebula... but it can take quite a while for these missions to start. At least right now you have some indication how long it could take (usually when number 4 joins, it won't take much longer).
It's still a work in progress so I hope they won't remove that. Removing the 'playing' column makes sense though.
Then again, I don't really understand why they just don't let us play queues with less than 5 people. Most missions like normal ones would actually be more interesting or challenging if that were possible.
Besides fixing the rewards, I think that being able to play missions with just 3 or 4 people, or even solo would be the most effective way of dealing with the queue related issues.
To me it seems the most effective and a relatively easy solution.
[
Yes it does. The fact that those queues can be completed within a minute shows that they are OUTDATED CONTENT.
OUTDATED.
As, in OUT OF DATE.
So do away with them.
I have to disagree with them being out of date. Missing Elite version however my lord YES ! but new players need them for Omega and existing players creating new toons need them, so they are not outdated.
I just cannot agree with removing the most played content in the PvE queues to try and shift players towards other less played PvE queues. I just don't see players migrating to them only migrating to other games.
I certainly wouldn't start playing any of the temporal Pve's, i tried them when they 1st came out and hated them, if they were my only choice i wouldn't be queuing up for PvE. Gravity Kills another i found rather boring after initially trying it when it 1st came out. I won't play that one because i don't like it.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Well, with the introduction of the new pve queue UI currently live on Tribble you will no longer be able to see how empty the queues are or how long you will have to wait on average. Out of sight, out of mind is the new credo.
^^^
Yes, they did this before (took out the column with the number of players queued); and the uproar was loud. people just decided to not queue for anything but Privates since you didn't have ANY indication that a queue was close to firing. The fact that this is probably for Consoles just shows how bad (Lighting 2.0 is bad enough) PC players get reamed because they go multi platform.
IMO it's never good to give LESS info to a player.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
What's that? I'm too busy playing SWTOR at the moment and getting great drops that don't have to go through an 8k-9k cash refining limit.
And in STO I can get enough marks to get through a 40 day reputation in literally less then a day since battlezones, pve queues, and RAs, give out so many marks you don't even have to try to get them.
Not that big of a deal since you are limited to one rep project a day to actually get the reputation. Also I was talking currency not rep.
Perhaps, if they brought back the Hourlies with a modest bonus to the rewards during a selected queue's featured time, it might be enough to boost participation in dormant queues.
There is a few good suggestion, and some bad ones, but this one is most likely to get ppl to do other queues. When that system was in place, whatever the mission was, lots of ppl were in those and queues poped in no time. That would promote diversity, tholian hour, undine hour, fleet hour, whatever hour. If you give an incentive to do something, you'll get people to get in.
On another note, going back to 60 mins cd on missions would be also be a good idea.
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E'Mc2 : Science Reman torp T'Varo, deadly annoyance :P
Kunmal: Tactical fed Klingon, ground specialist, USS Kanewaga
Ka -tet Tier 5 fleet fully completed Starbase and fleet property
[
Yes it does. The fact that those queues can be completed within a minute shows that they are OUTDATED CONTENT.
OUTDATED.
As, in OUT OF DATE.
So do away with them.
I have to disagree with them being out of date.
DPS has gone through the roof. Those missions are the oonly ones that can be DPSed asway in under a minute. Hence, they are out of date.
Missing Elite version however my lord YES !
That would just mean they take not 30 seconds, but one and a half minutes. And for much better rewards, thus not solving the rewards over time issue.
The problem with these queues is that their design is fundamentally flawed in a game that has lost all bounds in terms of DPS.
but new players need them for Omega and existing players creating new toons need them, so they are not outdated.
That is simply not true. You can earn Omega Marks in Borg Disconnected.
I just cannot agree with removing the most played content
Why do you believe they are the most played content? I say: Reward over time. Unbeatable, because DPS has gone through the roof, and these missions can be DPSed away in under a minute.
I certainly wouldn't start playing any of the temporal Pve's, i tried them when they 1st came out and hated them, if they were my only choice i wouldn't be queuing up for PvE.[...]
They are not. That's kind of the point.
There's nothing wrong with missions that can be "DPSed away." DPSing away CCA or ISA is a test of the players' abilities. It's a challenge, even if not a difficult one. There's nothing wrong with having some easy or short missions, either. Not everyone has the skill or time to do long and hard ones. It's unfortunate that there isn't content in the game that would actually use all the DPS potential available, but that's not the easy missions' failing and isn't improved by removing anything.
It's the reward structure that's out of date. The fast queues have unbeatable reward over time because the game dishes out the same reward for every queue without considering the effort and challenge involved at all. If the rewards were properly proportional, there would be no problem.
And if any queues are "fundamentally flawed," it's the newer, longer ones that are all about waiting for a timer to run out and don't require the players to actually do much of anything to win.
Bad seems like a radical understatement!!! I've a sub-50 toon that can only queue for fleet missions. Of the 3 space options 1 is dead, another is effectively dead - there's the odd person that queues but I don't recall if it's ever popped, and the fleet mission usually takes 30 up to perhaps 60 minutes to pop. At present of the 94 PvE options available (for my lvl 60 toon) there is a grand total of 4 matches in progress, and 18 missions with wait times listed which presumably means someone played them 'recently'. The fact one is stuck on 9:57 makes me skeptical about the reliability of said wait time. Aside from CCA, and perhaps a handful of other missions, people don't play and don't want to waste their time. That being the case why would anyone queue for other missions given it's a waste of time? Killing CCA will simply kill the multiplayer and force players to look for more effective ways to harvest dilithium etc.
Just remove all versions of Infected Space, Crystalline Catastrophe and (probably) The Cure Space, and all others that can be DPSed away, and then watch how the queues blossom again.
Oh that makes perfect world sense, remove the queues that people do play to try to force them to play ones they don't want to. Great way to get the servers to close down. You cannot herd players like sheep into STF's they simply don't want to play nor enjoy
So..... A thought on the upcoming nerfs/balancing..most pve q's live in game at the moment are pretty dead at the because it seems time taken is not worth the rewards on a lot of them, With the changes coming next week, which will reduce alot of ppls dps by quite alot, it seems logical to to assume that stf's will actually take longer to complete, if this is the case, would it not make the state of the stf's even worse?
I actually welcome the changes to skills and consoles etc, it will be fun to have to refine my builds again, i'm just worried about the stf's tbh which is the only real end game content.
Maybe the Devs could stop catering to the loud 10 year olds that cry when something throws science debuffs and counters and make the AI interesting to fight. Like the Voth used to be in season 8, before players cried about the sci cheese (I guess PvE never taught them how to fight) and nerfed them to the ground.
[...]
There's nothing wrong with missions that can be "DPSed away."
Oh, yes, there is.
In a game that inevitably has power creep, missions that can be DPSed away age badly. They consume player attention because they offer the best rewards for little actual effort. Which is what we are observing, and what is the cause of this thread. They become out of date, making them a bad investment of developer time.
There's nothing out of date about them except the reward structure and repeating it doesn't change anything.
[...]
It's the reward structure that's out of date. The fast queues have unbeatable reward over time because the game dishes out the same reward for every queue without considering the effort and challenge involved at all. If the rewards were properly proportional, there would be no problem.
[...]
But that requires precious developer effort. Deleting out-of-date queues does not. It is simply the more economic solution to the problem, provided they design all new queues like those that came in the last few seasons: Not as DPSable, but as queues requiring a bit more than just raw power.
If they weren't going to take the effort to actually improve things, the "more economic solution" would be to leave things as they are. There is no economic reason why they should stop people playing short queues in the first place.
And the new queues pretty much don't require anything at all.
What's that? I'm too busy playing SWTOR at the moment and getting great drops that don't have to go through an 8k-9k cash refining limit.
And in STO I can get enough marks to get through a 40 day reputation in literally less then a day since battlezones, pve queues, and RAs, give out so many marks you don't even have to try to get them.
Not that big of a deal since you are limited to one rep project a day to actually get the reputation. Also I was talking currency not rep.
it is a big deal when you can get that rep and then not have to play that que for 40 days, because that means that que will be dead, which is the issue, their entire rep system discourages people from playing the ques, and then they keep adding ques as if that would solve something.
there are so many examples of working game mechanics for PVE systems, I have no idea why most gaming companies NEVER look at other games, I mean wow is successful still because they take away good mechanics from other games and add it to theirs.
[...]
There's nothing wrong with missions that can be "DPSed away."
Oh, yes, there is.
In a game that inevitably has power creep, missions that can be DPSed away age badly. They consume player attention because they offer the best rewards for little actual effort. Which is what we are observing, and what is the cause of this thread. They become out of date, making them a bad investment of developer time.
There's nothing out of date about them
Uhm. Excuse me. Are you saying that in a universe where Borg ships get melted away like we do in ISA regularly, such battles would even happen any more? The Borg wouldn't you know, maybe draw the conclusion that those Alliance guys are a few orders of magnitude too powerful to mess with? I mean, seriously, the whole mission is entirely cheesy because of the DPS.
Yes I am. In case you haven't noticed, everything in this game is laughably easy if you know what you're doing. Always has been. All the enemies are just cannon fodder to be slaughtered. Going by gameplay, even the damn iconians should've been wetting their pants and fleeing to the furthest reaches of the universe at the very thought of the Invincible Player Character coming to visit. The story simply ignores all that, as videogame stories often do.
[...]
It's the reward structure that's out of date. The fast queues have unbeatable reward over time because the game dishes out the same reward for every queue without considering the effort and challenge involved at all. If the rewards were properly proportional, there would be no problem.
[...]
But that requires precious developer effort. Deleting out-of-date queues does not. It is simply the more economic solution to the problem, provided they design all new queues like those that came in the last few seasons: Not as DPSable, but as queues requiring a bit more than just raw power.
If they weren't going to take the effort to actually improve things, the "more economic solution" would be to leave things as they are.
[...]
Uh. How does that solve the problem of empty queues?
By declaring it not a problem. How does removing the only queues that are NOT empty solve it?
Comments
Oh that makes perfect world sense, remove the queues that people do play to try to force them to play ones they don't want to. Great way to get the servers to close down. You cannot herd players like sheep into STF's they simply don't want to play nor enjoy
Sorry this is a "BAAHHAAD" idea
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
TBF Im a bit the same as above(cant get quote to work) but I suppose thats one of the probs - they just need to make them more interesting or reward for actually playing them
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The current limit is 3 which means, for me anyway, I pick from the 3 I most want to run and hope one pops in a decent amount of time.
If they removed that limit, then I'd just queue up for all the ones I would like to play and go with whatever pops first. Perhaps others would do the same. Who knows, maybe the Gorn Minefield queue would pop more than it currently does.
I guess we'll see what happens in 4 days when Season 13 hits.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
My character Tsin'xing
keep crystal cata as special events, for shards, once a year, all other cyrstal event during the year would only for reps without shard event.
getting reps from episodes are smaller than sheduled event reps for 2x and R&D event reps. it would save devs' time and give players options to do episodes and jump on rep events for extras.
being with fleets and armada will have chances with thier own members has more advanages for reps for doing ques.
If they removed the column that shows how many people are queued, then I'm disappointed.
I like playing missions like Infected Ground or Azure Nebula... but it can take quite a while for these missions to start. At least right now you have some indication how long it could take (usually when number 4 joins, it won't take much longer).
It's still a work in progress so I hope they won't remove that. Removing the 'playing' column makes sense though.
Besides fixing the rewards, I think that being able to play missions with just 3 or 4 people, or even solo would be the most effective way of dealing with the queue related issues.
To me it seems the most effective and a relatively easy solution.
I have to disagree with them being out of date. Missing Elite version however my lord YES ! but new players need them for Omega and existing players creating new toons need them, so they are not outdated.
I just cannot agree with removing the most played content in the PvE queues to try and shift players towards other less played PvE queues. I just don't see players migrating to them only migrating to other games.
I certainly wouldn't start playing any of the temporal Pve's, i tried them when they 1st came out and hated them, if they were my only choice i wouldn't be queuing up for PvE. Gravity Kills another i found rather boring after initially trying it when it 1st came out. I won't play that one because i don't like it.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Yes, they did this before (took out the column with the number of players queued); and the uproar was loud. people just decided to not queue for anything but Privates since you didn't have ANY indication that a queue was close to firing. The fact that this is probably for Consoles just shows how bad (Lighting 2.0 is bad enough) PC players get reamed because they go multi platform.
IMO it's never good to give LESS info to a player.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Not that big of a deal since you are limited to one rep project a day to actually get the reputation. Also I was talking currency not rep.
There is a few good suggestion, and some bad ones, but this one is most likely to get ppl to do other queues. When that system was in place, whatever the mission was, lots of ppl were in those and queues poped in no time. That would promote diversity, tholian hour, undine hour, fleet hour, whatever hour. If you give an incentive to do something, you'll get people to get in.
On another note, going back to 60 mins cd on missions would be also be a good idea.
E'Mc2 : Science Reman torp T'Varo, deadly annoyance :P
Kunmal: Tactical fed Klingon, ground specialist, USS Kanewaga
Ka -tet Tier 5 fleet fully completed Starbase and fleet property
It's the reward structure that's out of date. The fast queues have unbeatable reward over time because the game dishes out the same reward for every queue without considering the effort and challenge involved at all. If the rewards were properly proportional, there would be no problem.
And if any queues are "fundamentally flawed," it's the newer, longer ones that are all about waiting for a timer to run out and don't require the players to actually do much of anything to win.
I actually welcome the changes to skills and consoles etc, it will be fun to have to refine my builds again, i'm just worried about the stf's tbh which is the only real end game content.
If they weren't going to take the effort to actually improve things, the "more economic solution" would be to leave things as they are. There is no economic reason why they should stop people playing short queues in the first place.
And the new queues pretty much don't require anything at all.
it is a big deal when you can get that rep and then not have to play that que for 40 days, because that means that que will be dead, which is the issue, their entire rep system discourages people from playing the ques, and then they keep adding ques as if that would solve something.
By declaring it not a problem. How does removing the only queues that are NOT empty solve it?