I guess my question is what is the line between fun and effectiveness? Is fun paramount over anything else even if you are perhaps impacting the fun of other players by being dead weight in a queue?
Frankly, to each his own. I don't use FAW, BO, but have a beam boat with the Quantum Phase Torp on front with TS3/TS2. I don't have a single tac cosnole or damage boost, yet I can do 40K DPS with ease. That is my PvE drain boat build which goes way over the top on drain. Then there is the full drain PvP build that has much lower DPS, but is still surprisingly effective. If the guy can use his boff abilites and pilot that thing and do well, then good for him. Personally, I don't find the fun in making a cookie cutter tac DPS build and blowing everything up by pressing the spacebar a couple of times. Probably why I only use my main for accolade hunting and sometimes PvE, but get bored quickly of the monotony. I prefer seeing ships get drawn in from everywhere with gravity wells or drained dry by Tyken's.
STO is basically about overwhelming your enemies with dps while being able to survive.
^
Definitively not the point of the game if you want to have fun.
Well as always fun is a subjective thing, but one thing that isn't subjective is that nearly all end game content in sto requires you to destroy the enemy. Now admittedly my comment about overwhelming enemies with dps was a little rudimentary. People can go about destroying enemies in various ways, but you will still need some form of damage to destroy them. Your drain boat for instance is one way. I don't have a problem with builds other then dps builds...maybe that's how my opinion has looked thus far?
Lets change gears a little. Do you remember the mission A Step Between the Stars? It's the mission where you need to fly the Dyson destroyer. The build on that ship is nonsensical. I haven't ever heard a single good thing from anyone who has had fly that ship in that mission as it is configured. The ship has no focus on really anything. Do you agree that the Dyson destroyer in this mission is poorly set up?
definitely, and the same goes for temporal ambassador and sphere of influence
however, those were tolerable because A: the enterprise c in TA is immortal, and B: worf is massively OP in SoI
whereas the dyson destroyer in ASbS is not immortal and tuvok sucks
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
As far as I am concerned, there is no line. If you're not having fun, there is no point in playing. You're never going to put "Starship Optimization Specialist" on a job resume. Someone, someday may, but no one posting here will.
That being said, if your idea of fun is wringing the absolute last % of performance out of your ship and gear that is humanly possible, good for you, have a blast. If you prefer to have a more relaxed experience and play more toward the way Trek was depicted on screen, or even something else entirely, again, good for you.
That's part of the beauty of this game, people can play or not, however they like. In my opinion, combat in this game goes way to fast, even with a non-optimized build.
How do I play? Somewhere between Sunday stroll and Indy 500,... I like being effective and being able to handle any PVE on my own with constant worry of self destructing, but I refuse to chase every ever increasing "performance" at the cost of having my "canon" ship/weapons.
As I've told many people, play how you like, with the ship/weapons you like. If you're not enjoying your time in-game, then there really isnt any pressing need to log back in.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
For me, the line between fun and effectiveness is clear. I play for fun up to the point where my play is affecting the team's ability to successfully complete whatever multiplayer mission we are in. I don't chase DPS. Not my thing. But I do make damned sure I can do enough damage so others do not have to make up for my shortcomings. Invites to the DPS League means either I know a little bit or I got really lucky. Never took them up on their offer. Saw no good reason to.
I am completely burned out on this whole Reputation hamster wheel. I have not played any of the multiplayer missions since the Iconian Reputation came out. To me, playing the same STFs again and again is not fun. I'll play the Featured Episodes and do Special Events stuff. Except for the Omega Particle Event. Which I consider to be the grindiest of grinds. I spend a lot of time playing Foundry Missions. I really enjoy helping another player level up their character. I also like helping newer players learn more about the game. Tzenkethi Front Elite for Lukari Marks or some other one of a bazillion STFs which is different while being exactly the same? No thank you, I'll pass. None of these are fun for me. Too many people too uptight because they are spending too much time worrying about what gear I'm running on my ship and not near enough time tending to their own business. I'd rather not burden "the experts" with my presence.
I absolutely do not offer unsolicited advice to people I've just met in game. If they post a build and ask everyone in range about it, there are other people who are far smarter about this game than I am who live for such opportunities. No reason for me to stick an oar in. If someone asks me directly, I will help them. By buying them a ship and some suitable gear. Then, we'll go do something simple for the purpose of them learning for themselves why you put Console A in Slot B to achieve Result C. To me, doing this is fun. Far easier to get the results I want this way than it is to tell them in as tactless a manner as possible why they're 'doing it all wrong'.
At the end of the day, "fun" remains subjective and personal, doesn't it? If I am enjoying myself and looking forward to the next time, I have played STO correctly this time. At 55yo, I don't lose any sleep over someone snarkily expressing an opinon in public using finagely lawyer language tricks that my builds are not up to whatever standard they have arbitrarily decided is the one strangers should meet.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
The original player posted to ask how to improve the build - the goal of which is self-evident and has nothing to do with fun. Unless further constrained, there are only two vectors for improving a build - improving damage or survival.
From that point, it's up the the player himself to decide which changes, if any, he wants to make which would allow him to continue to enjoy the game.
Players need to stop dictating how others have fun. If you want a guaranteed high dps team for a queue, there is a mechanic for that. If you pug, you get what you get with the caveat that people need to be conscious that it's a community and not join an Advanced or Elite queue for a pug unless they really belong in one. While it'a s bit frustrating, it's the price of admission - the alternative is alienation of new or less skilled players and ultimately the collapse of the entire game because it's not fun for anyone except a handful of people who, as Shatner so eloquently said, need to get a life.
Join a fleet and make some friends if it really matters that much to you.
One of the worst moments in STO for me was short after the Delta Rising patch. I had to witness how all my “just for fun” builds which worked before suddenly sucked heavily while my “pro” builds barley kicked in.
Then I read some DPS elitists of the old numbers channels babbling TRIBBLE like “carry your own weight” and don’t play advanced if you "can’t handle it" in STO forums.
Two years later all my toons have master builds and I’m having great fun again. I don’t care about being carried or carrying others now simply because I can and do my part. I also do more DPS now than those elitist ever did.
For me the fact that I am able to win is fun while the means to do so are of secondary interest. That's the line.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I still play a game called Begin Tactical Starship Simulator. This game has Star Trek ship combat that not only lets you load multiple torpedo types in to the same launchers for long and short range torpedoes but it also manages damage to ships so weapons, shields transporters, life support, etc can get knocked out. Out of the box ships in that game seem more effective and fun then ships in this game. However Begin was a DOS era game that didn't try to sell Master Keys to open boxes that may or may not contain must have goodies.
Why should I play a game in any way that is not fun for me? It defies the purpose of a game. The moment you consider STO anything other than a fun game you are doing it wrong.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I am of the opinion that fun and effectiveness are not mutually exclusive. One can have both, especially in STO. Current content allows someone to build an effective ship using nothing but time (say, 6 months), research, and practice on the loadout that they like (canon builds, Sci-Torp, all Arrays/DBB's, all DC's/DHC's/Turrets, Torp/Mine, etc).
Even the default loadout from ships can be effective in the hands of a skilled pilot when facing any Advanced STF. This game is not hard, but it does require knowing the mechanics, caveats, and what is and isn't working properly to be extremely effective.
Lets change gears a little. Do you remember the mission A Step Between the Stars? It's the mission where you need to fly the Dyson destroyer. The build on that ship is nonsensical. I haven't ever heard a single good thing from anyone who has had fly that ship in that mission as it is configured. The ship has no focus on really anything. Do you agree that the Dyson destroyer in this mission is poorly set up?
Yet you can still easily beat the voth and undine with it.
Lets change gears a little. Do you remember the mission A Step Between the Stars? It's the mission where you need to fly the Dyson destroyer. The build on that ship is nonsensical. I haven't ever heard a single good thing from anyone who has had fly that ship in that mission as it is configured. The ship has no focus on really anything. Do you agree that the Dyson destroyer in this mission is poorly set up?
Yet you can still easily beat the voth and undine with it.
I am of the opinion that fun and effectiveness are not mutually exclusive. One can have both, especially in STO. Current content allows someone to build an effective ship using nothing but time (say, 6 months), research, and practice on the loadout that they like (canon builds, Sci-Torp, all Arrays/DBB's, all DC's/DHC's/Turrets, Torp/Mine, etc).
Even the default loadout from ships can be effective in the hands of a skilled pilot when facing any Advanced STF. This game is not hard, but it does require knowing the mechanics, caveats, and what is and isn't working properly to be extremely effective.
Yeah really. I favor ground builds the result in my enemies not living long. It's FUN to see how fast I can kill!
Comments
definitely, and the same goes for temporal ambassador and sphere of influence
however, those were tolerable because A: the enterprise c in TA is immortal, and B: worf is massively OP in SoI
whereas the dyson destroyer in ASbS is not immortal and tuvok sucks
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
That being said, if your idea of fun is wringing the absolute last % of performance out of your ship and gear that is humanly possible, good for you, have a blast. If you prefer to have a more relaxed experience and play more toward the way Trek was depicted on screen, or even something else entirely, again, good for you.
That's part of the beauty of this game, people can play or not, however they like. In my opinion, combat in this game goes way to fast, even with a non-optimized build.
How do I play? Somewhere between Sunday stroll and Indy 500,... I like being effective and being able to handle any PVE on my own with constant worry of self destructing, but I refuse to chase every ever increasing "performance" at the cost of having my "canon" ship/weapons.
As I've told many people, play how you like, with the ship/weapons you like. If you're not enjoying your time in-game, then there really isnt any pressing need to log back in.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
I am completely burned out on this whole Reputation hamster wheel. I have not played any of the multiplayer missions since the Iconian Reputation came out. To me, playing the same STFs again and again is not fun. I'll play the Featured Episodes and do Special Events stuff. Except for the Omega Particle Event. Which I consider to be the grindiest of grinds. I spend a lot of time playing Foundry Missions. I really enjoy helping another player level up their character. I also like helping newer players learn more about the game. Tzenkethi Front Elite for Lukari Marks or some other one of a bazillion STFs which is different while being exactly the same? No thank you, I'll pass. None of these are fun for me. Too many people too uptight because they are spending too much time worrying about what gear I'm running on my ship and not near enough time tending to their own business. I'd rather not burden "the experts" with my presence.
I absolutely do not offer unsolicited advice to people I've just met in game. If they post a build and ask everyone in range about it, there are other people who are far smarter about this game than I am who live for such opportunities. No reason for me to stick an oar in. If someone asks me directly, I will help them. By buying them a ship and some suitable gear. Then, we'll go do something simple for the purpose of them learning for themselves why you put Console A in Slot B to achieve Result C. To me, doing this is fun. Far easier to get the results I want this way than it is to tell them in as tactless a manner as possible why they're 'doing it all wrong'.
At the end of the day, "fun" remains subjective and personal, doesn't it? If I am enjoying myself and looking forward to the next time, I have played STO correctly this time. At 55yo, I don't lose any sleep over someone snarkily expressing an opinon in public using finagely lawyer language tricks that my builds are not up to whatever standard they have arbitrarily decided is the one strangers should meet.
From that point, it's up the the player himself to decide which changes, if any, he wants to make which would allow him to continue to enjoy the game.
Players need to stop dictating how others have fun. If you want a guaranteed high dps team for a queue, there is a mechanic for that. If you pug, you get what you get with the caveat that people need to be conscious that it's a community and not join an Advanced or Elite queue for a pug unless they really belong in one. While it'a s bit frustrating, it's the price of admission - the alternative is alienation of new or less skilled players and ultimately the collapse of the entire game because it's not fun for anyone except a handful of people who, as Shatner so eloquently said, need to get a life.
Join a fleet and make some friends if it really matters that much to you.
Then I read some DPS elitists of the old numbers channels babbling TRIBBLE like “carry your own weight” and don’t play advanced if you "can’t handle it" in STO forums.
Two years later all my toons have master builds and I’m having great fun again. I don’t care about being carried or carrying others now simply because I can and do my part. I also do more DPS now than those elitist ever did.
For me the fact that I am able to win is fun while the means to do so are of secondary interest. That's the line.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
http://www.hallert.net/misc/begin/begin.html
http://www.starfleetproject.com/
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Even the default loadout from ships can be effective in the hands of a skilled pilot when facing any Advanced STF. This game is not hard, but it does require knowing the mechanics, caveats, and what is and isn't working properly to be extremely effective.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Yea..But its a bit trickier on advanced :P
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
My character Tsin'xing