I.K.S. Kor Needs A New Name

boogieman624

The IKS Kor In the new Tzenkethi Battle Zone is currently a Kurak Class Battle cruiser. The ship should be renamed from "Kor" as we already have a "Kor" Class and ships are usuely named after their class. The ship should be changed to The Mogh Class Battle Cruiser (T5 version of the Kurak) and renamed to the "IKS Mogh." This would add a level of irony to his ship as it would be Kurn (Rodek), commanding the "IKS Mogh," which was built by his forgotten brother, Worf.

captainkoltar

Do we know for sure that the KDF name the first ship in a class after the class name? We know that Starfleet does.

boogieman624

The IKS Negh'Var was the first Negh'Var class ship.

eldarion79

IKS An'quat commanded by Kargan in the episode Midnight

psycoticvulcan

The Mogh is by far my favorite Klingon ship, so I support this.

nickodaemus

captainkoltar wrote: »

Do we know for sure that the KDF name the first ship in a class after the class name? We know that Starfleet does.

The class doesn't have a name unto itself, it obtains the name from the first ship of said class. Don't confuse this with ship types either. Example: USS Nimitz was the first aircraft carrier in its class, but it was not the first aircraft carrier ever. It was an entirely new type of aircraft carrier, thus all those of the same type commissioned afterward became "Nimitz Class" carriers. USS Enterprize was in a class all by itself & preceeded these, and the next new carriers will be Gerald R. Ford class.

For the sake of discussion, I'd say the KDF does the exact same thing. Federation designation for thier ships was based on hull types, like D-4 (a destroyer hull) or C-7 (a cruiser hull) or B-10 (a battleship hull) until their names became known through means other than warfare.

artan42

nickodaemus wrote: »

The class doesn't have a name unto itself, it obtains the name from the first ship of said class. Don't confuse this with ship types either. Example: USS Nimitz was the first aircraft carrier in its class, but it was not the first aircraft carrier ever. It was an entirely new type of aircraft carrier, thus all those of the same type commissioned afterward became "Nimitz Class" carriers. USS Enterprize was in a class all by itself & preceeded these, and the next new carriers will be Gerald R. Ford class.

Neither Starfleet or the KDF are the US Navy. As far as we know, Starfleet ships have the class named after the first in line (or vice versa), the only exception I can think of of the top of my head is the Dreadnought Class where the (presumed) first ship was named Vengeance not Dreadnought.
Earth Starfleet dosn't follow this however and their ships are given two letter codes such as NX and the not seen (due to awful CGI) but referenced NC Class, as in NC-17 Sarajevo.

nickodaemus wrote: »

For the sake of discussion, I'd say the KDF does the exact same thing. Federation designation for thier ships was based on hull types, like D-4 (a destroyer hull) or C-7 (a cruiser hull) or B-10 (a battleship hull) until their names became known through means other than warfare.

[/quote]

Starfleet continues to refer to the K't'inga as the D7 and the K'Vort as a D12 even after their names are known. And the only prefix we know is 'D', there's no 'C' or 'B'. And 'D' dosn't stand for destroyer as the D4 BoP is a glorified runabout and the K't'inga and K'Vort are battlecruisers.
Even the Klingons use these designations, Kor (or Kang I can't remeber) refers to their past D5 Battlecruiser.
That's to say nothing of Vulcans and Starfleet referring to two classes of Klingon Battlecruisers as Warbirds.

bcwhguderian1941

I think nikodeamus has referenced the Klingon ship classes from the old SFB shipping lists. A game fondly remembered by many Trek fans. (Me too!)

BCW

nightken

coldnapalm wrote: »

Or...they could just use the Kor class BoP for the IKS Kor...klingons need to be in BoP for crying out loud...not silly cruisers.

this please.

byozuma

Well, I've taken to the IKS P'Ngus naming convention. My starter ship was the P'Ngus, next after was the Sh'Tiv P'Ngus, skipped 20 and 30's free ships because... the Ambassador ship was just so much better, that was the Hod P'Ngus. Their last IKS ship was a Mirror Voquv called P'Ngus Vt'Qabs. Given how serious Federation ships tend to be named I couldn't not be silly with my KDF ships.

thunderfoot

coldnapalm wrote: »

Or...they could just use the Kor class BoP for the IKS Kor...Klingons need to be in BoP for crying out loud...not silly cruisers.

Klingons probably don't bring pocket knives to a gunfight.
And there is nothing at all 'silly' about a properly equipped and captained Kurak class battlecruiser.

nightken

thunderfoot006 wrote: »

coldnapalm wrote: »

Or...they could just use the Kor class BoP for the IKS Kor...Klingons need to be in BoP for crying out loud...not silly cruisers.

Klingons probably don't bring pocket knives to a gunfight.
And there is nothing at all 'silly' about a properly equipped and captained Kurak class battlecruiser.

not, they bring a d'k tahg and kill a rather embassing number of feds using fancy energy weapons. and a properly equipped and captained kor is no pocket knife.

chispin55

I propose "I.K.S Blimey".

ssbn655

Just to point out something as far as the Fed Dreadnaught goes. The game is set in the TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT and the TNG/TOS Film universe. The Vengence is from the JJ Abrams KT Timeline so in this case that name only applies to that one ship and not the game's main timeline.

artan42

ssbn655 wrote: »

Just to point out something as far as the Fed Dreadnaught goes. The game is set in the TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT and the TNG/TOS Film universe. The Vengence is from the JJ Abrams KT Timeline so in this case that name only applies to that one ship and not the game's main timeline.

I'm not referring to the game version. Harrison refers to the ship as Dreadnought Class in the film and the film also implies that the Vengeance is the first ship of its class.

Even if I was referring to the game it dosn't matter. The chances of Starfleet changing how they name ship classes because the USS Kelvin was attacked is just silly. Something being from the KT is not an automatic dismissal of it as evidence.​​

artan42

coldnapalm wrote: »

thunderfoot006 wrote: »

coldnapalm wrote: »

Or...they could just use the Kor class BoP for the IKS Kor...Klingons need to be in BoP for crying out loud...not silly cruisers.

Klingons probably don't bring pocket knives to a gunfight.
And there is nothing at all 'silly' about a properly equipped and captained Kurak class battlecruiser.

You are right, you don't bring a pocket knife to a gun fight...that is why you bring the Kor BoP and not some silly cruiser. I mean the kurak is one of my favorite klingon cruisers...but real klingons use BoP like Martok. Klingon diplomats go around in cruisers...like Gowron.

I'll wait here whilst you go tell Kor and Kang they're not 'real Klingons'.​​

artan42

coldnapalm wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

coldnapalm wrote: »

thunderfoot006 wrote: »

coldnapalm wrote: »

Or...they could just use the Kor class BoP for the IKS Kor...Klingons need to be in BoP for crying out loud...not silly cruisers.

Klingons probably don't bring pocket knives to a gunfight.
And there is nothing at all 'silly' about a properly equipped and captained Kurak class battlecruiser.

You are right, you don't bring a pocket knife to a gun fight...that is why you bring the Kor BoP and not some silly cruiser. I mean the kurak is one of my favorite klingon cruisers...but real klingons use BoP like Martok. Klingon diplomats go around in cruisers...like Gowron.

I'll wait here whilst you go tell Kor and Kang they're not 'real Klingons'.​​

The last thing Kor flew was a BoP. Kang too i think...not sure on that.

Yes. The crappy little Kia of Prey killed him. His personal ship was a D5 then a D7. He won the Battle of Caleb V in it.

nickodaemus

artan42 wrote: »

Neither Starfleet or the KDF are the US Navy.

They are not, and I never claimed they were. But Trek is fantasy written from the human perspective, and that is the way humans have named the ships of their naval forces throughout history since the industrial revolution (at least). Humans would follow suit (even in fiction) with whatever they observed others races creating until they knew what its true name was. IRL it is still done this way until the proper designation and specifics (tonnage, capabilities, mission) become more well known through observation & experience.

Edit: USS Vengeance is a Vengeance class Intel Dreadnought. This is because of its size, capabilities and mission as a "dreadnought" or battleship, and it is/was the first such ship in the class.

artan42

coldnapalm wrote: »

He died like a warrior in that BoP. Instead of being a coward who hides behind hull and shield.

He died like a fool. No Klingon after Gorkon died like a true warrior with cunning and tactics, they all died like the savages that took over their Empire.

nickodaemus wrote: »

They are not, and I never claimed they were. But Trek is fantasy written from the human perspective, and that is the way humans have named the ships of their naval forces throughout history since the industrial revolution (at least). Humans would follow suit (even in fiction) with whatever they observed others races creating until they knew what its true name was. IRL it is still done this way until the proper designation and specifics (tonnage, capabilities, mission) become more well known through observation & experience.

Except they do. I've already pointed out the NX Class. And we still know nothing about how Klingons name their ships, using both number codes and class names interchangeably.
Also, it seems to me that you're implying human writers are incapable of using their imagination and deviating from the real world.

nickodaemus wrote: »

Edit: USS Vengeance is a Vengeance class Intel Dreadnought. This is because of its size, capabilities and mission as a "dreadnought" or battleship, and it is/was the first such ship in the class.

I'm still not talking about the STO version, I'm talking about the ID version. Specifically stated onscreen by a lead member of the development team to be a member of the Dreadnought Class. Not Vengeance Class dreadnought. Dreadnought Class.

Starfleet does not appear to use weight classes (obviously as they're not a military) other than the Constitution (Heavy Cruiser) and New Orleans (Frigate) from what I remeber. I don't know what context the New Orleans was called a frigate, however the Constitution was named a heavy cruiser by Klingons.​​

angrytarg

artan42 wrote: »

coldnapalm wrote: »

They are not, and I never claimed they were. But Trek is fantasy written from the human perspective, and that is the way humans have named the ships of their naval forces throughout history since the industrial revolution (at least). Humans would follow suit (even in fiction) with whatever they observed others races creating until they knew what its true name was. IRL it is still done this way until the proper designation and specifics (tonnage, capabilities, mission) become more well known through observation & experience.

Except they do. I've already pointed out the NX Class. And we still know nothing about how Klingons name their ships, using both number codes and class names interchangeably.
Also, it seems to me that you're implying human writers are incapable of using their imagination and deviating from the real world.

This, a thousand times. Creative writing is not bound to conventions of the real world and assuming it is, even despite evidence of the contrary, is foolish and I'd wish this would end the stupid US Navy comparisons right here.

Besides, the "human perspective" knows more conventions than US American ones. For example the British Tribal-class or the German convention of simply numbering ship classes (they do retain an informal type name, though). Some services also use either the first vessel being in service as class name (not the first build) or the oldest vessel in service (thus renaming the class once that ship is decomissioned).​​

artan42

angrytarg wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

coldnapalm wrote: »

They are not, and I never claimed they were. But Trek is fantasy written from the human perspective, and that is the way humans have named the ships of their naval forces throughout history since the industrial revolution (at least). Humans would follow suit (even in fiction) with whatever they observed others races creating until they knew what its true name was. IRL it is still done this way until the proper designation and specifics (tonnage, capabilities, mission) become more well known through observation & experience.

Except they do. I've already pointed out the NX Class. And we still know nothing about how Klingons name their ships, using both number codes and class names interchangeably.
Also, it seems to me that you're implying human writers are incapable of using their imagination and deviating from the real world.

This, a thousand times. Creative writing is not bound to conventions of the real world and assuming it is, even despite evidence of the contrary, is foolish and I'd wish this would end the stupid US Navy comparisons right here.

Besides, the "human perspective" knows more conventions than US American ones. For example the British Tribal-class or the German convention of simply numbering ship classes (they do retain an informal type name, though). Some services also use either the first vessel being in service as class name (not the first build) or the oldest vessel in service (thus renaming the class once that ship is decomissioned).​​

That's true, I hadn't even thought of class naming examples from other countries. Hell, just sticking with the US, aeroplanes aren't given class names and Roddenberry was in the US Air Force not the Navy, hence the overwhelming amount of officers compared to crewmen/NCOs.

If you're going to make speculation for headcanon or something, look at the source material, not an organisation that shares very little in common with Starfleet.

artan42

coolbatman wrote: »

the constitution was also referred to on-screen as a "battlecruiser" and my source is st3 tsfs.........and somebody correct me if i am wrong..........

From the script...

[Bird-of-Prey bridge]

MALTZ: Vessel entering sector.
TORG: Yes. ...Federation Battle Cruiser. Have they scanned us?
MALTZ: Not yet.
TORG: (in Klingonese) Engage cloaking device.

So, yes, by the Klingons as I said before.

coldnapalm wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

coldnapalm wrote: »

He died like a warrior in that BoP. Instead of being a coward who hides behind hull and shield.

He died like a fool. No Klingon after Gorkon died like a true warrior with cunning and tactics, they all died like the savages that took over their Empire.
​​

He did not. He took a BoP against 7 bug ships to save everyone else...and succeeded. That is cunning and tactics...not some stupid diplomat who wants to make peace. Gorkon is the epitome of the kind of cowardly Klingons who would be in a cruiser. Chang was a real warrior in that movie and he flew a BoP.

Imagine if he'd have been in a D7 with shields? He might have survived. Imagine a world where a great Klingon strategist survived to teach other Klingons you don't need to die to win?

Well that's not this world. This is one where fools die and nothing new is learnt.

Gorkon was the last Klingon with a functioning brain in the Empire (so discounting Worf). His death lead to a Klingon Empire where their scientists were non-existent and their approach to new tings was to chew them for a bit. Chang was a dribbling loon who succeeded in the full on flanderisation of the entire Klingon race directly leading to them being situated as the least powerful and most broken of the three major powers by the end of the Dominion War (well until Shinzon's revolution and Hobus anyway).

artan42

coolbatman wrote: »

shinzon being something actually seen on screen ( even if done badly ) and hobus not being shown anywhere ( to my knowlege ) in film or tv episodes........ahhhhhh, 'hobus event' a STO Exclusive...........

It's the main driving force behind most of the plot of ST:09. The Romulan sun goes supernova and destroys their world. It goes unnamed in the film but Hobus is a shorter word than 'the Romulan sun' which is completely invalidated no I've had to type it out.