Part of the problem is that engineering captain abilities are outperformed by all of their equivalents. Here's something to think about:
Miracle Worker is outperformed by: RIF (the Samsar console), Desperate Repairs, Engineering Team III, Hazard Emitters III, Continuity, and Rally Point Marker.
Rotate Shield Frequency: Lol, this ability is outperformed in terms of utility and heals by pretty much every shield heal in the game. Even Science Team I, an ensign boff ability, does better than it.
EPS Power Transfer/Nadion Inversion: Tacs and scis both can maintain 125 power levels easily nowadays. Sure engineers are better off at power management because these abilities are "free" but as far as captain abilities go, EPSPT does not make much of a meaningful difference in combat. Engineers who are serious about doing damage will also have to use the same power boosting abilities that scis and tacs do such as leech and supremecy. An engineer is only very slightly ahead of an equally geared tac or sci in terms of power management because of the lackluster effects of these abilities. Due to the large numbers of power boosting abilities in the game, engineers are no longer unique in the advantage they used to hold in this regard.
Imo, captain abilities are supposed to be 'top tier' abilities and among the best in their specific category. For example, APA is the best damage buff in the game and Sensor Scan is the best AOE debuff in the game. This however, is not the case with engineer as currently none of their engineering captain abilities can be classified as the best in the role that they are supposed to fulfill. No matter what, captain abilities are not supposed to be sub par to consoles and traits.
You make a good point and I agree. Captain abilities should be the best, at least better than Boff abilities.
But I don't think that boosting the Engineers' healing abilities will make much of a difference... it's not like they are really needed for survival after all. So it won't really help the team or make it easier to kill stuff (unfortunately the sole purpose in most missions) as an engineer.
Honestly, I think I'd be willing to sacrifice damage for an increase in aggro generation. Maybe a taunt skill beyond the stance?
tey've added taunts-and they still work better on a TAC.
Here's the basic problem:
Engineer Class Abilities have not kept up with the Meta relative to Sci or Tac.
Now, we're not talking Bridge Officer abilities-those have done just fine by comparison. But the Class abilities are pretty much exactly where they were at three years ago, while the other two classes have effectively had their abilities advanced.
Engineering Fleet: Pretty much does nothing for either player or team.
Nadion Inversion: in the current meta, you can know NOTHING and by collecting gear on your tac, render the same effect through warp cores and engines.
EPS-outdone by a variety of systems that are readily available to Sci and tac characters in forms that work BETTER.
Miracle Worker: Long cooldown, outperformed by both Engineering Teams, vastly outdone by Hazard Emitters 1, etc. etc. It's like having an extra ET2, but with a LONG cooldown (and you can't toss it as a heal).
and so on.
Engineers really don't have a functional role that isn't performed BETTER by the other two using ordinary builds.
part of that, is a push to remove differentiation by the developers themselves-tossing out gear that boosts healing and tanking, adding heals and energy boosts to grant tanking to players running characters whose classes weren't initially supposed to be doing that. whenever a game developer pushes, as Cryptic has, toward homogenization, some element of the game is going to suffer.
I need to post a caveat: I am in favor of tweaks/balance pass/dev attention to Engineering Captain abilities.
That being said, I'm also in favor of accurately discussing them as that might be the best way to get improvements. So with that being said ...
EPS Power Transfer: You claim it is outdone by a variety of systems that are readily available to sci and tac characters in forms that work better.
The ability at max rank gives:
+25 All Power Settings for 30 seconds
+1.2 Power Transfer Rate for 30 seconds
That's a beefy buff for 30 seconds. So two questions:
1- What can sci and tac get that outperforms this?
and more importantly, 2- Are those same options available to ENG captains?
I ask the second question because the development team is unlikely to make balance tweaks on career specific captain abilities based on the presence of things like AMP since they're available to everyone.
Next up, Miracle Worker: You say it is outperformed by Eng Team, Hazard Emitters, and you claim it has a long cooldown and can't be used on other players.
First the cooldown issue as the dev team has addressed this specifically in the past. Grace Under Fire, an ENG specific space trait, that gives eng captains this: If you take more than 20% of your hitpoints in damage within a 5 second period, the cooldown on Miracle Worker is reset. This trait will only trigger when Miracle Worker is already on cooldown, and can only trigger once every 90 seconds.
This makes Miracle Worker's cooldown not that long if you're slotting that trait.
Next, the heal itself. It's both a shield heal and a hull heal. Which is likely why the development team hasn't compared it directly to something like hazard emitters or engineering team. So keep in mind it's not a direct comparison and any changes the devs make to it will also have to keep the shield heal portion in mind.
Rotate Shield Frequency: Lol, this ability is outperformed in terms of utility and heals by pretty much every shield heal in the game. Even Science Team I, an ensign boff ability, does better than it.
It's not just a shield heal. That tends to be the secondary reason for pushing the button. It's a shield hardness boost too.
EDIT: Note, I'm not arguing against tweaking or improving RSF. Just that it does more than heal shields, and actually if we really wanted to debate how to improve this power I would recommend improving the shield hardness aspect of it moreso than the heal. IMO, there's enough shield heals in the game as is. So focusing on the other thing it does would help make it more unique for Eng captains.
Rotate Shield Frequency: Lol, this ability is outperformed in terms of utility and heals by pretty much every shield heal in the game. Even Science Team I, an ensign boff ability, does better than it.
It's not just a shield heal. That tends to be the secondary reason for pushing the button. It's a shield hardness boost too.
EDIT: Note, I'm not arguing against tweaking or improving RSF. Just that it does more than heal shields, and actually if we really wanted to debate how to improve this power I would recommend improving the shield hardness aspect of it moreso than the heal. IMO, there's enough shield heals in the game as is. So focusing on the other thing it does would help make it more unique for Eng captains.
All of you said is true. The main problem right now though is that RSF barely does anything in space. In most of my PvE runs, I don't really notice a difference when I press it. If this ability would have a small shield HoT scaling off energy damage or something, it would certainly become a much more favorable ability.
Honestly, I think I'd be willing to sacrifice damage for an increase in aggro generation. Maybe a taunt skill beyond the stance?
tey've added taunts-and they still work better on a TAC.
Here's the basic problem:
Engineer Class Abilities have not kept up with the Meta relative to Sci or Tac.
Now, we're not talking Bridge Officer abilities-those have done just fine by comparison. But the Class abilities are pretty much exactly where they were at three years ago, while the other two classes have effectively had their abilities advanced.
Engineering Fleet: Pretty much does nothing for either player or team.
Nadion Inversion: in the current meta, you can know NOTHING and by collecting gear on your tac, render the same effect through warp cores and engines.
EPS-outdone by a variety of systems that are readily available to Sci and tac characters in forms that work BETTER.
Miracle Worker: Long cooldown, outperformed by both Engineering Teams, vastly outdone by Hazard Emitters 1, etc. etc. It's like having an extra ET2, but with a LONG cooldown (and you can't toss it as a heal).
and so on.
Engineers really don't have a functional role that isn't performed BETTER by the other two using ordinary builds.
part of that, is a push to remove differentiation by the developers themselves-tossing out gear that boosts healing and tanking, adding heals and energy boosts to grant tanking to players running characters whose classes weren't initially supposed to be doing that. whenever a game developer pushes, as Cryptic has, toward homogenization, some element of the game is going to suffer.
I need to post a caveat: I am in favor of tweaks/balance pass/dev attention to Engineering Captain abilities.
That being said, I'm also in favor of accurately discussing them as that might be the best way to get improvements. So with that being said ...
EPS Power Transfer: You claim it is outdone by a variety of systems that are readily available to sci and tac characters in forms that work better.
The ability at max rank gives:
+25 All Power Settings for 30 seconds
+1.2 Power Transfer Rate for 30 seconds
That's a beefy buff for 30 seconds. So two questions:
1- What can sci and tac get that outperforms this?
and more importantly, 2- Are those same options available to ENG captains?
I ask the second question because the development team is unlikely to make balance tweaks on career specific captain abilities based on the presence of things like AMP since they're available to everyone.
Next up, Miracle Worker: You say it is outperformed by Eng Team, Hazard Emitters, and you claim it has a long cooldown and can't be used on other players.
First the cooldown issue as the dev team has addressed this specifically in the past. Grace Under Fire, an ENG specific space trait, that gives eng captains this: If you take more than 20% of your hitpoints in damage within a 5 second period, the cooldown on Miracle Worker is reset. This trait will only trigger when Miracle Worker is already on cooldown, and can only trigger once every 90 seconds.
This makes Miracle Worker's cooldown not that long if you're slotting that trait.
Next, the heal itself. It's both a shield heal and a hull heal. Which is likely why the development team hasn't compared it directly to something like hazard emitters or engineering team. So keep in mind it's not a direct comparison and any changes the devs make to it will also have to keep the shield heal portion in mind.
Some good points have been raised here. I just want to point out that Miracle Worker without Grace Under Fire is nearly useless. I use Grace Under Fire with Miracle Worker and even then it still falls shy to the other competitive heals in the game, including Engineering Team III. If you want, I can post some numbers on this later . Right now, I would say that engineers are required to run GUF to make Miracle Worker a noticeable heal in endgame content. I tried doing an ISA without GUF and Miracle Worker did next to nothing. GUF does make Miracle Worker better, but in doing so, engineers are sacrificing a trait slot which could have been put to other uses if MW was a bit better to begin with.
EDIT: I don't want a huge buff to engineers for every single ability to make them OP. I just want them to be relevant to the endgame again and for their abilities to be unique again. On my main engineer toon, I recently hit 130k dps in an ISA, but I feel as if I've hit a barrier in terms of how much I can contribute (not just dps-wise). The further one progresses through the game, the usefulness of engineers decrease. Currently, engis are kind of like a starter class where it's good at the beginning but falls short at the end. I just hope engineers will get slightly touched on in the future so that endgame engineers can feel useful again.
First thing that needs immediate help is the 'Miracle Worker' ability. It currently restores a flat amount of Hull and Shields (9000/3000) which at one point was significant. At this point in the game though, the average cruiser has around 100k Hull and most have more. 9k Healing is pretty much nothing. The ability has not been altered to correlate with current hull and shield values.
As mentioned before, they also need some offensive punch. I would add a Hull and Shield Penetration to Nadion Inversion for one. Nothing major, but something to make it a nice damage boost. I would also give them an innate Attack Pattern skill like Tactical Captains get. Perhaps an Engineering specific Attack Pattern that adds Weapon Haste or provides a massive boost to power levels while active.
I honestly don't think it would take much, just a few tweaks. On ground I think they're just fine but they need a boost in space for sure.
^^ Listen to this man!
Yes, thematically, an innate armor debuff skill sounds rather Engineery to me. Like Attack Pattern Epsilon, "Grants a +5% extra hull penetration when active."
Well I see you guys talking about how bad Miracle Worker is... even with 2 or 3 points in Hull Regeneration. Engineering Team I / II / III are just as bad if not worse given how much they heal. Science Team I / II / III could be improved; they are however further aided by Tactical Team to diverting healing to facings taking damage.
ENG Team I / II / III is in my opinion completely ineffective ability for the most part. Attack pattern Beta & Delta should also not reduce damage resistence (should be an ENG ability to fracture hull plating) and instead be replaced with a slight augment to increase critical chance or severity.
▪ TAC focus on enhancing damage & critical even if it has to push thru higher resistance from SCI/ENG.
▪ ENG focused on better Healing & Reducing Hull Plating Resistance, with Offensive Radiation/Warp Plasma or +Power/Transfer abilities. ▪ SCI focus on Exotic Abilities that Control or unleash Exotic Damage that compliments their weapons.
Seems though ENG have certainly lost some of their ability to heal, while TAC/SCI damage has increased. I've mentioned this to a developer, but unless enough people request it, and are clear and very to the point--it likely won't change any time soon.
Honestly, I think I'd be willing to sacrifice damage for an increase in aggro generation. Maybe a taunt skill beyond the stance?
tey've added taunts-and they still work better on a TAC.
Here's the basic problem:
Engineer Class Abilities have not kept up with the Meta relative to Sci or Tac.
Now, we're not talking Bridge Officer abilities-those have done just fine by comparison. But the Class abilities are pretty much exactly where they were at three years ago, while the other two classes have effectively had their abilities advanced.
Engineering Fleet: Pretty much does nothing for either player or team.
Nadion Inversion: in the current meta, you can know NOTHING and by collecting gear on your tac, render the same effect through warp cores and engines.
EPS-outdone by a variety of systems that are readily available to Sci and tac characters in forms that work BETTER.
Miracle Worker: Long cooldown, outperformed by both Engineering Teams, vastly outdone by Hazard Emitters 1, etc. etc. It's like having an extra ET2, but with a LONG cooldown (and you can't toss it as a heal).
and so on.
Engineers really don't have a functional role that isn't performed BETTER by the other two using ordinary builds.
part of that, is a push to remove differentiation by the developers themselves-tossing out gear that boosts healing and tanking, adding heals and energy boosts to grant tanking to players running characters whose classes weren't initially supposed to be doing that. whenever a game developer pushes, as Cryptic has, toward homogenization, some element of the game is going to suffer.
I need to post a caveat: I am in favor of tweaks/balance pass/dev attention to Engineering Captain abilities.
That being said, I'm also in favor of accurately discussing them as that might be the best way to get improvements. So with that being said ...
EPS Power Transfer: You claim it is outdone by a variety of systems that are readily available to sci and tac characters in forms that work better.
The ability at max rank gives:
+25 All Power Settings for 30 seconds
+1.2 Power Transfer Rate for 30 seconds
That's a beefy buff for 30 seconds. So two questions:
1- What can sci and tac get that outperforms this?
and more importantly, 2- Are those same options available to ENG captains?
I ask the second question because the development team is unlikely to make balance tweaks on career specific captain abilities based on the presence of things like AMP since they're available to everyone.
Next up, Miracle Worker: You say it is outperformed by Eng Team, Hazard Emitters, and you claim it has a long cooldown and can't be used on other players.
First the cooldown issue as the dev team has addressed this specifically in the past. Grace Under Fire, an ENG specific space trait, that gives eng captains this: If you take more than 20% of your hitpoints in damage within a 5 second period, the cooldown on Miracle Worker is reset. This trait will only trigger when Miracle Worker is already on cooldown, and can only trigger once every 90 seconds.
This makes Miracle Worker's cooldown not that long if you're slotting that trait.
Next, the heal itself. It's both a shield heal and a hull heal. Which is likely why the development team hasn't compared it directly to something like hazard emitters or engineering team. So keep in mind it's not a direct comparison and any changes the devs make to it will also have to keep the shield heal portion in mind.
Some good points have been raised here. I just want to point out that Miracle Worker without Grace Under Fire is nearly useless. I use Grace Under Fire with Miracle Worker and even then it still falls shy to the other competitive heals in the game, including Engineering Team III. If you want, I can post some numbers on this later . Right now, I would say that engineers are required to run GUF to make Miracle Worker a noticeable heal in endgame content. I tried doing an ISA without GUF and Miracle Worker did next to nothing. GUF does make Miracle Worker better, but in doing so, engineers are sacrificing a trait slot which could have been put to other uses if MW was a bit better to begin with.
EDIT: I don't want a huge buff to engineers for every single ability to make them OP. I just want them to be relevant to the endgame again and for their abilities to be unique again. On my main engineer toon, I recently hit 130k dps in an ISA, but I feel as if I've hit a barrier in terms of how much I can contribute (not just dps-wise). The further one progresses through the game, the usefulness of engineers decrease. Currently, engis are kind of like a starter class where it's good at the beginning but falls short at the end. I just hope engineers will get slightly touched on in the future so that endgame engineers can feel useful again.
This is the kind of feedback I wanted to delve into! Which is why I brought up the stuff I brought up. I really think improvements can be made to all of these ENG Captain abilities. I just have the experience from Borticus and Spartan that they are very into the details of the powers and so we have to be too when giving that feedback.
Like Miracle Worker. I agree without the trait it's not a very useful skill at all. The trait was put in the game to address the cooldown issue. So we should keep that in mind, however, even with the trait it's still a solid discussion with the development team that the skill could use some tweaks.
Same with RSF. I think it needs some attention. But I just want the discussion with the devs to consider that the power does two things, so that the devs know that we're not just pushing for power creep, but genuinely looking to revamp/tweak/adjust these powers to give engineering a more competitive AND useful set of abilities.
It's why I put my caveat up there. I think a lot of us want the same things. Most definitely. I just want to have one of those fuitful exchanges with Spartan and Borticus that have happened in the past where things can get done. That doesn't always end up being the case.
I think snoggymack22 many of your points are valid. I also saw your earlier post about Miracle Worker and didn't have a concern especially when used with Grace Under Fire; but realized it is a little lack luster. Still I thought ENG TEAM I/II/III were far worse performers. As an ENG CAPTAIN with two points in Hull Regeneration I find ENG TEAM exceptionally lack luster, while Captain's abilities are more powerful they do have far longer cooldowns--depending on using Grace Under Fire.
Still I think I'd strongly like to see damage resistance taken away from TAC attack patterns Beta & Delta and augmented with slight buff's to crit chance &/or severity; their focus is on increasing damage not destroying ENG hull plating : that should be left alone. Tactical Captain should do more damage but have to fight thru the resistance. ENGINEERS however should have abilities (bridge officers) to reduce the enemies effectiveness of hull plating..
Than what about giving Miracle worker baseline a buff to bring it up to where the other two career abilities are strength-wise, while than making it that if you take grace under fire it would have it's effective strength reduced by a certain degree to off-set that buffed performance. For instance like say we buff Miracle worker base-line by 90%, but that the talent grace under fire reduces this back to the pre-buffed stats or reduces the buff to only 10-15%.
I think some of the abilities like RSF might be better improved by adding things into the game, which RSF or other career's abilities are used to counter would be better. Like for instance if they redid the borg to give them a bonus to penetrate the shields of their target that is tied to the shield type they had, but using RSF would reduce/negate this penetration the Borg has gained. This kind of thing giving these career specific abilities a component to counter in-game mechanics that gives them value without a full on buff that might imbalance the game.
As I have been saying though I like a engineering ability like extend shields might be well suited to a change that has it turned from a standard shield heal, to more of a support based ability. In that you use this ability extending your shields around a target reducing yoru shield hp by a certain percentage, while as a trade-off you now cause shield heals to heal both your shields an apply a percentage of that heal to the target of your extend shield ability. I could see this made to be a toggle with no duration limit, but with a maximum tether distance.
Honestly, I think I'd be willing to sacrifice damage for an increase in aggro generation. Maybe a taunt skill beyond the stance?
tey've added taunts-and they still work better on a TAC.
Here's the basic problem:
Engineer Class Abilities have not kept up with the Meta relative to Sci or Tac.
Now, we're not talking Bridge Officer abilities-those have done just fine by comparison. But the Class abilities are pretty much exactly where they were at three years ago, while the other two classes have effectively had their abilities advanced.
Engineering Fleet: Pretty much does nothing for either player or team.
Nadion Inversion: in the current meta, you can know NOTHING and by collecting gear on your tac, render the same effect through warp cores and engines.
EPS-outdone by a variety of systems that are readily available to Sci and tac characters in forms that work BETTER.
Miracle Worker: Long cooldown, outperformed by both Engineering Teams, vastly outdone by Hazard Emitters 1, etc. etc. It's like having an extra ET2, but with a LONG cooldown (and you can't toss it as a heal).
and so on.
Engineers really don't have a functional role that isn't performed BETTER by the other two using ordinary builds.
part of that, is a push to remove differentiation by the developers themselves-tossing out gear that boosts healing and tanking, adding heals and energy boosts to grant tanking to players running characters whose classes weren't initially supposed to be doing that. whenever a game developer pushes, as Cryptic has, toward homogenization, some element of the game is going to suffer.
I need to post a caveat: I am in favor of tweaks/balance pass/dev attention to Engineering Captain abilities.
That being said, I'm also in favor of accurately discussing them as that might be the best way to get improvements. So with that being said ...
EPS Power Transfer: You claim it is outdone by a variety of systems that are readily available to sci and tac characters in forms that work better.
The ability at max rank gives:
+25 All Power Settings for 30 seconds
+1.2 Power Transfer Rate for 30 seconds
That's a beefy buff for 30 seconds. So two questions:
1- What can sci and tac get that outperforms this?
and more importantly, 2- Are those same options available to ENG captains?
I ask the second question because the development team is unlikely to make balance tweaks on career specific captain abilities based on the presence of things like AMP since they're available to everyone.
Next up, Miracle Worker: You say it is outperformed by Eng Team, Hazard Emitters, and you claim it has a long cooldown and can't be used on other players.
First the cooldown issue as the dev team has addressed this specifically in the past. Grace Under Fire, an ENG specific space trait, that gives eng captains this: If you take more than 20% of your hitpoints in damage within a 5 second period, the cooldown on Miracle Worker is reset. This trait will only trigger when Miracle Worker is already on cooldown, and can only trigger once every 90 seconds.
This makes Miracle Worker's cooldown not that long if you're slotting that trait.
Next, the heal itself. It's both a shield heal and a hull heal. Which is likely why the development team hasn't compared it directly to something like hazard emitters or engineering team. So keep in mind it's not a direct comparison and any changes the devs make to it will also have to keep the shield heal portion in mind.
Some good points have been raised here. I just want to point out that Miracle Worker without Grace Under Fire is nearly useless. I use Grace Under Fire with Miracle Worker and even then it still falls shy to the other competitive heals in the game, including Engineering Team III. If you want, I can post some numbers on this later . Right now, I would say that engineers are required to run GUF to make Miracle Worker a noticeable heal in endgame content. I tried doing an ISA without GUF and Miracle Worker did next to nothing. GUF does make Miracle Worker better, but in doing so, engineers are sacrificing a trait slot which could have been put to other uses if MW was a bit better to begin with.
EDIT: I don't want a huge buff to engineers for every single ability to make them OP. I just want them to be relevant to the endgame again and for their abilities to be unique again. On my main engineer toon, I recently hit 130k dps in an ISA, but I feel as if I've hit a barrier in terms of how much I can contribute (not just dps-wise). The further one progresses through the game, the usefulness of engineers decrease. Currently, engis are kind of like a starter class where it's good at the beginning but falls short at the end. I just hope engineers will get slightly touched on in the future so that endgame engineers can feel useful again.
This is the kind of feedback I wanted to delve into! Which is why I brought up the stuff I brought up. I really think improvements can be made to all of these ENG Captain abilities. I just have the experience from Borticus and Spartan that they are very into the details of the powers and so we have to be too when giving that feedback.
Like Miracle Worker. I agree without the trait it's not a very useful skill at all. The trait was put in the game to address the cooldown issue. So we should keep that in mind, however, even with the trait it's still a solid discussion with the development team that the skill could use some tweaks.
Same with RSF. I think it needs some attention. But I just want the discussion with the devs to consider that the power does two things, so that the devs know that we're not just pushing for power creep, but genuinely looking to revamp/tweak/adjust these powers to give engineering a more competitive AND useful set of abilities.
It's why I put my caveat up there. I think a lot of us want the same things. Most definitely. I just want to have one of those fuitful exchanges with Spartan and Borticus that have happened in the past where things can get done. That doesn't always end up being the case.
Well said! I'll try to post the numbers on how the engineering captain abilities compare to their respective counterparts tomorrow to shed more light onto this.
I think snoggymack22 many of your points are valid. I also saw your earlier post about Miracle Worker and I don't have any issue's with how that ability performs either especially with the Grace Under Fire Trait. You'll see that's the reason why I focused more on ENG TEAM I / II / III is really where a slight improvement need's to occur. While it is an ENG Bridge Officer ability a TAC/ENG/SCI captain can use, more benefit will come to those who have space skills in those ENG abilities. Still with two points in Hull Regeneration I still find ENG TEAM extremely lack luster.
Still I think overall the general idea's being discussed hear are mostly sound.. But I would like to see damage resistance taken away from TAC attack patterns Beta & Delta and augmented with slight buff's to crit chance &/or severity. As I said ENG should be the one's who reduce the enemies effectiveness of hull plating especially given the higher damage output of TAC / SCI captain's often.
While what you said is true, Engineering Team I, II, and III are fine right now. The current problem lies in Miracle Worker as it has fallen out of grace when you compare it to all the other competitive heals in the game. It should be one of the best heals in the game, but due to the HP scaling of Delta Rising, this is definitely no longer the case. As a matter of fact, as I pointed out previously, Engineering Team III actually outheals Miracle Worker consistently. Putting this into perspective, Miracle Worker is a captain ability while Engineering Team III is a Lt. Cmdr Boff ability. So right now, the main problem lies in MW, not in ET.
First thing that needs immediate help is the 'Miracle Worker' ability. It currently restores a flat amount of Hull and Shields (9000/3000) which at one point was significant. At this point in the game though, the average cruiser has around 100k Hull and most have more. 9k Healing is pretty much nothing. The ability has not been altered to correlate with current hull and shield values.
As mentioned before, they also need some offensive punch. I would add a Hull and Shield Penetration to Nadion Inversion for one. Nothing major, but something to make it a nice damage boost. I would also give them an innate Attack Pattern skill like Tactical Captains get. Perhaps an Engineering specific Attack Pattern that adds Weapon Haste or provides a massive boost to power levels while active.
I honestly don't think it would take much, just a few tweaks. On ground I think they're just fine but they need a boost in space for sure.
^^ Listen to this man!
Yes, thematically, an innate armor debuff skill sounds rather Engineery to me. Like Attack Pattern Epsilon, "Grants a +5% extra hull penetration when active."
Well I see you guys talking about how bad Miracle Worker is... even with 2 or 3 points in Hull Regeneration. Engineering Team I / II / III are really poor choice for bridge station giving how much they heal; while Science Team I / II / III is less effective they can be assisted by Tactical Team to diverting healing to facings taking damage. But given the higher hull sizes and how quick you can take damage in an Advanced PVE Q clearly ENG Team I / II / III is really a ineffective ability for the most part. Attack pattern Beta & Delta should also not reduce damage resistence but slightly augment critical chance or severity.
ENG as others suggest should focus on decreased resistance to hull plating, as such DEVS should remove that ability from attack patterns of TAC to reducing resistance, and focus on enhancing Damage or Crit's even if it has to punch thru higher resistance of a SCI/ENG.
In that light, Fire on my Mark should really lose its hull debuff component, and just keep the de-stealth part. The innate hull debuff ability really ought to belong to Engineering Captains (but, for the love of Kahless, give it a name which actually describes what it does, like Buckle Hull *g*).
Furthermore, yes, as others outlined, Miracle Worker should be percentage-based, and not add a fixed amount of hull (which, considering how large hulls are nowadays, only effectively weakened MW).
So let's examine why I believe both could probably use a increase (bonus) to healing assuming a Captain has spent two space skill points to acquire Improved Hull Restoration (+85) then the following currently applies: ▪ Miracle Worker Heal of 17150 : or about 18% on ship with 95k Hull.
▪ ENG TEAM I/II/III Heal(s) of 7700/10200/12800 : or 8%/10.7%/13.4% contrast to above.
Given how TAC & SCI Damage has expanded it clearly has not kept pace with an ENG ability to tank/heal/repair especially with higher damage dealt in Advanced PVE Q's. We should expect something more in line with: ▪ Miracle Worker results in Heal of 23500 : or about 24.7% on ship with 95k Hull.
▪ ENG TEAM I/II/III results in Heal(s) of 11200/13500/15900 : or 11.7%/14.2%/16.7%.
I believe something similar to the above ask is FAIR to correct the healing of Engineers; it's not too much but enough, as Miracle Worker is the only Captain Ability:
▪ Rotate Shield Frequency III (159.7) Shield Regeneration & Reduces Shield Damage by 36.5% for 30 sec.
▪ Nadion Inversion III provides +349 Resistence to SCI/TAC Subsystem Power Drain & -34.9% Weapon Power Cost
▪ EPS Power Transfer III which gives +31.2 All Power Setting & +187 Power Transfer Rate for 30 sec.
None of those other abilities are anything to laugh about if used properly; however, I still believe ENG healing abilities could use an increase as TANKS aren't want they used to be.
You need to factor in the bonus given by SKILL POINTS in ENG/SCI/TAC along with buff's provided by Deflector, Impulse, Core, Shields & various console's... That's why I used a base comparison of +85 with Improved Hull Regeneration to set a baseline of a typically good ENG Captain who wants to TANK/HEAL effectively and still the %'s given the higher damage of TAC/SCI Captain's is a bit lackluster.
Well, forget the respec. Using my current skill build, along with tanking traits, I'm practically invincible. Or, at least it feels that way. EPS Overload is good for getting some extra crit in, with the Strategist ship trait increasing my damage. Still working on getting Nadion Bypass, but I noticed the new ground engineer-specific traits and got all three of them. I also bought some nanite beams for a future project for my Adapted destroyer.
With the price of Nadion Bypass dropping to about 10 million EC, think I'll just use my zen to buy keys, sell a couple of them and use the other two for opening Kelvin lockboxes. (I know I'm unlikely to get a Kelvin Constituion, but most of the fun is in trying. :P)
Well, forget the respec. Using my current skill build, along with tanking traits, I'm practically invincible. Or, at least it feels that way. EPS Overload is good for getting some extra crit in, with the Strategist ship trait increasing my damage. Still working on getting Nadion Bypass, but I noticed the new ground engineer-specific traits and got all three of them. I also bought some nanite beams for a future project for my Adapted destroyer.
With the price of Nadion Bypass dropping to about 10 million EC, think I'll just use my zen to buy keys, sell a couple of them and use the other two for opening Kelvin lockboxes. (I know I'm unlikely to get a Kelvin Constituion, but most of the fun is in trying. :P)
No one here is asking for a massive increase to DPS; but some including myself don't think attack patterns for TAC should include lowering hull plating (ENG) / damage resistance as part of attack patterns ability. If any character lowers it slightly it should be more related to ENG ability like fracture hull plating part of some radiation DoT effect. TAC/SCI generally are capable of higher damage which is clear in the DPS league. Some are just asking for a slight increase to healing (which I admit even with two space skills in Hull Regeneration is nothing impressive or worth using):
▪ Miracle Worker Heal of 17150 : or about 18% on ship with 95k Hull & Improved Hull Regeneration of (+85).
▪ ENG TEAM I/II/III Heal(s) of 7700/10200/12800 : or 8%/10.7%/13.4% contrast to above.
Here's my thing as far as all that goes: Speccing heavily into the skill tree for your class is, or should be, intuitive. For Tac and Sci, it largely is, even though a Science-heavy build is currently the best way to go for max DPS. And that's where the disconnect comes in. Speccing heavily into Science skills on the tree coupled with the tactical skill tree gets you a lot more DPS than going tac-heavy. That's not intuitive.
No class should be penalized for not speccing into their roles. So, yeah, more than anybody else, engineers do need a boost. The new traits are a step in the right direction, but a baseline boost in healing at the very least is called for.
Yea and I do very much agree with your assessment as well. People should be able to pick & choose the skills their captain and bridge officers will benefit from. Well my ENG is mostly spec'd in Engineering I've chosen some SCI & TAC abilities as well to be more effective offensively.
Still I think mostly the healing (Miracle Worker & ENG TEAM) were identified because even with a +85 (not to mention +20 from traits I forgot to factor in) 8-13% for ENG TEAM all gain's are wiped out almost as quickly as they were almost restored.
So this could use a slight increase especially at +100 skill, for those with less than +50 would benefit slightly less.
It seems to me that a big part of the problem is one or more of the devs must be fans of playing the nuke/DPS role in MMOs, because Tac captains get waaaaaaay more love than they should have, especially in terms of seemingly getting powers that logically should have fallen to Engineering in terms of tanking.
Tacs should never, ever be able to tank the way that they can. Abilities like Go Down Fighting, Attack Pattern Beta and Attack Pattern Delta should have been Engineering powers. It's hilariously been made even worse by that lockbox trait that makes Go Down Fighting even more ridiculous and out of place for a Tac captain than it already was to begin with.
Similarly, the Strategist specialization is a bunch of abilities that should have been baked into revised Engineering and given to no one else, IMHO.
So, since in games like this you can't nerf or take away what has already been given, lest everyone cry bloody murder, my suggestion is Engineering tweaks to captain abilities should be that we should be given abilities similar GDF, APB, and ABD. Perhaps work it in to what we already have. Add Go Down Fighting-style scaling resists and damage buffs to Miracle Worker. Add Attack Pattern Delta effects for adding resists while damage resists of our attackers into our Rotate Shield Frequency. Similar tweaks along those sorts of lines. Our EPS power transfer should have effects added to it, like perhaps ability cool downs/haste added, without our needing to buy a lockbox trait. It seems to me, this is thematically appropriate and makes us what we were supposed to be anyway, what we were at launch, actually.
It seems to me Science is fine, Engineering needs serious buffs/tweaking, and Tacs should pretty have the pause button hit for them and stop being given gift after gift after gift.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
It seems to me that a big part of the problem is one or more of the devs must be fans of playing the nuke/DPS role in MMOs, because Tac captains get waaaaaaay more love than they should have, especially in terms of seemingly getting powers that logically should have fallen to Engineering in terms of tanking.
Tacs should never, ever be able to tank the way that they can. Abilities like Go Down Fighting, Attack Pattern Beta and Attack Pattern Delta should have been Engineering powers. It's hilariously been made even worse by that lockbox trait that makes Go Down Fighting even more ridiculous and out of place for a Tac captain than it already was to begin with.
Similarly, the Strategist specialization is a bunch of abilities that should have been baked into revised Engineering and given to no one else, IMHO.
So, since in games like this you can't nerf or take away what has already been given, lest everyone cry bloody murder, my suggestion is Engineering tweaks to captain abilities should be that we should be given abilities similar GDF, APB, and ABD. Perhaps work it in to what we already have. Add Go Down Fighting-style scaling resists and damage buffs to Miracle Worker. Add Attack Pattern Delta effects for adding resists while damage resists of our attackers into our Rotate Shield Frequency. Similar tweaks along those sorts of lines. Our EPS power transfer should have effects added to it, like perhaps ability cool downs/haste added, without our needing to buy a lockbox trait. It seems to me, this is thematically appropriate and makes us what we were supposed to be anyway, what we were at launch, actually.
It seems to me Science is fine, Engineering needs serious buffs/tweaking, and Tacs should pretty have the pause button hit for them and stop being given gift after gift after gift.
I agree engineers are way too weak right now. However, I might also add that a few of the science abilities also need to be touched on too. They're not underpowered to the point of engineering captain abilities, but they're by no means great either.
Finally decided to give my Rom alt (that I hadn't played since DR) some love again. Turns out I could use my crafted AP weps on my alt too, so I only upgraded a few Locators, and that's it. And I bought a T6 Fleet T'varo (which actually is a Fleet Malem). Still using my old Mk XII Borg space set on it. :P And no Lobi consoles upgraded yet.
Anyway, I had to smile, from ear to ear, when I remembered how incredibly OP Tact Captains are!
Yeah, that's 49.6% extra dmg from Attack Pattern Alpha, plus 5% CrtH, plus another whopping 49.6% CrtD. And all for 30 secs. Added to that +37.4% All Damage strength for 30 sec from Tactical Fleet. And, to add insult to injury, I slap my foes with -50 All Damage resistance for 30 sec on top of that, from Fire on my Mark (without even touching a Beta). And when that isn't enough, I activate my Singularity Overcharge ability, for even moar shrieking damage. And when I'm about to be defeated anyway, I press the 'get out of prison free' Go Down Fighting button, giving me a renewed +25% All Damage strength, this time for 60 secs, no less.
Hahaha, Cryptic, you are hilarious! And what do I get on my main, a lowly Engineer?! Um, yeah, I can press an incredibly weak Miracle Worker (great for Alpha strikes /sarcasm), or Rotate Shield Frequency, yawn. LOLOL.
Seriously, I should be crying, for it's really sad how underpowered Engineers are. But it's so tragic, it became a joke, really. Don't get me wrong, I love being OP! (See my new sig *g*); but, seriously, Cryptic, for a long while to come, no doubt, I won't be able to look you in the eye with a straight face, next time you talk again about any alleged 'balance.'
Ok, full stop. If 15 million Ec mudcoin is something to balk at, you don't get to play "the performance game". Because there isn't a Captain-based buff ANYWHERE that's got more kick than just leveling up your weapons.
Those "broken universal consoles" and the trait to end all traits -- Inspiring leadership -- used to cost EIGHTY million and up. That was outside of players' casual grasp but five million? Even fifteen? If you aren't making that much money just playing this captain you're trying to tune up, you're doing it wrong. Where IS your money going then? Because Ec falls like rain.
I'm sorry. I thought we were talking about the game that IS, and not some fantasy about advancement stopping the second you hit level 60 and have a full array of purple XII's...
it's paying five to fifteen million to be as viable as others are out of the box, Nike. It's why I made the Bortasque comparison-both cases, you have to invest heavily to get your performance up to where something a peer or even someone less advanced is at without any expenditure at all.
not talking "Better than", but "Equal to at the same level of spending".
15 million EC is pocket change, really. I'm all for equality and all, but if it costs so little to be 'on par' with the Joneses, then, heck, why not?! I spent endlessly more on an average lockbox ship. In that sense I'm really with nikeix on this: if a measly 15 million feels like too much of an investment, then I can't fathom how you can even afford to upgrade your weapons.
meimei, the thing I don't understand is that upgrading weapons doesn't cost EC. I make the Superior Upgrades, one a day for free with the Fleet Research lab project, and I use dil, which is like mana from heaven, but there's no EC cost.
So to me it looks like apples and oranges. I have plenty of upgraded weapons and everything else worth upgrading, but I too am perpetually short of EC.
Ok, full stop. If 15 million Ec mudcoin is something to balk at, you don't get to play "the performance game". Because there isn't a Captain-based buff ANYWHERE that's got more kick than just leveling up your weapons.
Those "broken universal consoles" and the trait to end all traits -- Inspiring leadership -- used to cost EIGHTY million and up. That was outside of players' casual grasp but five million? Even fifteen? If you aren't making that much money just playing this captain you're trying to tune up, you're doing it wrong. Where IS your money going then? Because Ec falls like rain.
I'm sorry. I thought we were talking about the game that IS, and not some fantasy about advancement stopping the second you hit level 60 and have a full array of purple XII's...
it's paying five to fifteen million to be as viable as others are out of the box, Nike. It's why I made the Bortasque comparison-both cases, you have to invest heavily to get your performance up to where something a peer or even someone less advanced is at without any expenditure at all.
not talking "Better than", but "Equal to at the same level of spending".
15 million EC is pocket change, really. I'm all for equality and all, but if it costs so little to be 'on par' with the Joneses, then, heck, why not?! I spent endlessly more on an average lockbox ship. In that sense I'm really with nikeix on this: if a measly 15 million feels like too much of an investment, then I can't fathom how you can even afford to upgrade your weapons.
meimei, the thing I don't understand is that upgrading weapons doesn't cost EC. I make the Superior Upgrades, one a day for free with the Fleet Research lab project, and I use dil, which is like mana from heaven, but there's no EC cost.
So to me it looks like apples and oranges. I have plenty of upgraded weapons and everything else worth upgrading, but I too am perpetually short of EC.
Ah, yes, see, I craft my Superior Upgrades the old-fashioned way: I buy them. :P So, yeah, for me it costs EC. Me, I'm always short on Refined Dilithium. But I hear you.
Finally decided to give my Rom alt (that I hadn't played since DR) some love again. Turns out I could use my crafted AP weps on my alt too, so I only upgraded a few Locators, and that's it. And I bought a T6 Fleet T'varo (which actually is a Fleet Malem). Still using my old Mk XII Borg space set on it. :P And no Lobi consoles upgraded yet.
Anyway, I had to smile, from ear to ear, when I remembered how incredibly OP Tact Captains are!
Yeah, that's 49.6% extra dmg from Attack Pattern Alpha, plus 5% CrtH, plus another whopping 49.6% CrtD. And all for 30 secs. Added to that +37.4% All Damage strength for 30 sec from Tactical Fleet. And, to add insult to injury, I slap my foes with -50 All Damage resistance for 30 sec on top of that, from Fire on my Mark (without even touching a Beta). And when that isn't enough, I activate my Singularity Overcharge ability, for even moar shrieking damage. And when I'm about to be defeated anyway, I press the 'get out of prison free' Go Down Fighting button, giving me a renewed +25% All Damage strength, this time for 60 secs, no less.
Hahaha, Cryptic, you are hilarious! And what do I get on my main, a lowly Engineer?! Um, yeah, I can press an incredibly weak Miracle Worker (great for Alpha strikes /sarcasm), or Rotate Shield Frequency, yawn. LOLOL.
Seriously, I should be crying, for it's really sad how underpowered Engineers are. But it's so tragic, it became a joke, really. Don't get me wrong, I love being OP! (See my new sig *g*); but, seriously, Cryptic, for a long while to come, no doubt, I won't be able to look you in the eye with a straight face, next time you talk again about any alleged 'balance.'
I have the same feeling whenever I switch from my engineer main to my tac. The idea that tacs get attack pattern alpha while engineers get rotate shield frequency (which is supposed to be the counter to APA?) is laughable. Even the supposed king of the engineering abilities (miracle worker) can't really counter an alpha strike since miracle worker is an instant thing and then it's on cooldown.
It's bad that tacs do what they're supposed to do (damage) so much better than engineers do what they're supposed to do (heal, etc)
First thing that needs immediate help is the 'Miracle Worker' ability. It currently restores a flat amount of Hull and Shields (9000/3000) which at one point was significant. At this point in the game though, the average cruiser has around 100k Hull and most have more. 9k Healing is pretty much nothing. The ability has not been altered to correlate with current hull and shield values.
As mentioned before, they also need some offensive punch. I would add a Hull and Shield Penetration to Nadion Inversion for one. Nothing major, but something to make it a nice damage boost. I would also give them an innate Attack Pattern skill like Tactical Captains get. Perhaps an Engineering specific Attack Pattern that adds Weapon Haste or provides a massive boost to power levels while active.
I honestly don't think it would take much, just a few tweaks. On ground I think they're just fine but they need a boost in space for sure.
^^ Listen to this man!
Yes, thematically, an innate armor debuff skill sounds rather Engineery to me. Like Attack Pattern Epsilon, "Grants a +5% extra hull penetration when active."
Well I see you guys talking about how bad Miracle Worker is... even with 2 or 3 points in Hull Regeneration. Engineering Team I / II / III are really poor choice for bridge station giving how much they heal; while Science Team I / II / III is less effective they can be assisted by Tactical Team to diverting healing to facings taking damage. But given the higher hull sizes and how quick you can take damage in an Advanced PVE Q clearly ENG Team I / II / III is really a ineffective ability for the most part. Attack pattern Beta & Delta should also not reduce damage resistence but slightly augment critical chance or severity.
ENG as others suggest should focus on decreased resistance to hull plating, as such DEVS should remove that ability from attack patterns of TAC to reducing resistance, and focus on enhancing Damage or Crit's even if it has to punch thru higher resistance of a SCI/ENG.
In that light, Fire on my Mark should really lose its hull debuff component, and just keep the de-stealth part. The innate hull debuff ability really ought to belong to Engineering Captains (but, for the love of Kahless, give it a name which actually describes what it does, like Buckle Hull *g*).
Furthermore, yes, as others outlined, Miracle Worker should be percentage-based, and not add a fixed amount of hull (which, considering how large hulls are nowadays, only effectively weakened MW).
I think the idea of Fire on my Mark is that you encourage your team to fire at the target you selected, so the hull debuff seems more thematically relevant than the stealth debuff.
But it could be something else entirely - it could, say, grant the attackers temporary hit points or a hull resistance buff to the ally attacking the same target. Still a good reason to go for your mark, but instead of increasing DPS, it increases everyone's survivability.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
You make a good point and I agree. Captain abilities should be the best, at least better than Boff abilities.
But I don't think that boosting the Engineers' healing abilities will make much of a difference... it's not like they are really needed for survival after all. So it won't really help the team or make it easier to kill stuff (unfortunately the sole purpose in most missions) as an engineer.
I need to post a caveat: I am in favor of tweaks/balance pass/dev attention to Engineering Captain abilities.
That being said, I'm also in favor of accurately discussing them as that might be the best way to get improvements. So with that being said ...
EPS Power Transfer: You claim it is outdone by a variety of systems that are readily available to sci and tac characters in forms that work better.
The ability at max rank gives:
+25 All Power Settings for 30 seconds
+1.2 Power Transfer Rate for 30 seconds
That's a beefy buff for 30 seconds. So two questions:
1- What can sci and tac get that outperforms this?
and more importantly, 2- Are those same options available to ENG captains?
I ask the second question because the development team is unlikely to make balance tweaks on career specific captain abilities based on the presence of things like AMP since they're available to everyone.
Next up, Miracle Worker: You say it is outperformed by Eng Team, Hazard Emitters, and you claim it has a long cooldown and can't be used on other players.
First the cooldown issue as the dev team has addressed this specifically in the past. Grace Under Fire, an ENG specific space trait, that gives eng captains this: If you take more than 20% of your hitpoints in damage within a 5 second period, the cooldown on Miracle Worker is reset. This trait will only trigger when Miracle Worker is already on cooldown, and can only trigger once every 90 seconds.
This makes Miracle Worker's cooldown not that long if you're slotting that trait.
Next, the heal itself. It's both a shield heal and a hull heal. Which is likely why the development team hasn't compared it directly to something like hazard emitters or engineering team. So keep in mind it's not a direct comparison and any changes the devs make to it will also have to keep the shield heal portion in mind.
It's not just a shield heal. That tends to be the secondary reason for pushing the button. It's a shield hardness boost too.
EDIT: Note, I'm not arguing against tweaking or improving RSF. Just that it does more than heal shields, and actually if we really wanted to debate how to improve this power I would recommend improving the shield hardness aspect of it moreso than the heal. IMO, there's enough shield heals in the game as is. So focusing on the other thing it does would help make it more unique for Eng captains.
All of you said is true. The main problem right now though is that RSF barely does anything in space. In most of my PvE runs, I don't really notice a difference when I press it. If this ability would have a small shield HoT scaling off energy damage or something, it would certainly become a much more favorable ability.
Some good points have been raised here. I just want to point out that Miracle Worker without Grace Under Fire is nearly useless. I use Grace Under Fire with Miracle Worker and even then it still falls shy to the other competitive heals in the game, including Engineering Team III. If you want, I can post some numbers on this later
EDIT: I don't want a huge buff to engineers for every single ability to make them OP. I just want them to be relevant to the endgame again and for their abilities to be unique again. On my main engineer toon, I recently hit 130k dps in an ISA, but I feel as if I've hit a barrier in terms of how much I can contribute (not just dps-wise). The further one progresses through the game, the usefulness of engineers decrease. Currently, engis are kind of like a starter class where it's good at the beginning but falls short at the end. I just hope engineers will get slightly touched on in the future so that endgame engineers can feel useful again.
Well I see you guys talking about how bad Miracle Worker is... even with 2 or 3 points in Hull Regeneration. Engineering Team I / II / III are just as bad if not worse given how much they heal. Science Team I / II / III could be improved; they are however further aided by Tactical Team to diverting healing to facings taking damage.
ENG Team I / II / III is in my opinion completely ineffective ability for the most part.
▪ TAC focus on enhancing damage & critical even if it has to push thru higher resistance from SCI/ENG.
▪ ENG focused on better Healing & Reducing Hull Plating Resistance, with Offensive Radiation/Warp Plasma or +Power/Transfer abilities.
▪ SCI focus on Exotic Abilities that Control or unleash Exotic Damage that compliments their weapons.
Seems though ENG have certainly lost some of their ability to heal, while TAC/SCI damage has increased. I've mentioned this to a developer, but unless enough people request it, and are clear and very to the point--it likely won't change any time soon.
This is the kind of feedback I wanted to delve into! Which is why I brought up the stuff I brought up. I really think improvements can be made to all of these ENG Captain abilities. I just have the experience from Borticus and Spartan that they are very into the details of the powers and so we have to be too when giving that feedback.
Like Miracle Worker. I agree without the trait it's not a very useful skill at all. The trait was put in the game to address the cooldown issue. So we should keep that in mind, however, even with the trait it's still a solid discussion with the development team that the skill could use some tweaks.
Same with RSF. I think it needs some attention. But I just want the discussion with the devs to consider that the power does two things, so that the devs know that we're not just pushing for power creep, but genuinely looking to revamp/tweak/adjust these powers to give engineering a more competitive AND useful set of abilities.
It's why I put my caveat up there. I think a lot of us want the same things. Most definitely. I just want to have one of those fuitful exchanges with Spartan and Borticus that have happened in the past where things can get done. That doesn't always end up being the case.
Still I think I'd strongly like to see damage resistance taken away from TAC attack patterns Beta & Delta and augmented with slight buff's to crit chance &/or severity; their focus is on increasing damage not destroying ENG hull plating : that should be left alone. Tactical Captain should do more damage but have to fight thru the resistance. ENGINEERS however should have abilities (bridge officers) to reduce the enemies effectiveness of hull plating..
I think some of the abilities like RSF might be better improved by adding things into the game, which RSF or other career's abilities are used to counter would be better. Like for instance if they redid the borg to give them a bonus to penetrate the shields of their target that is tied to the shield type they had, but using RSF would reduce/negate this penetration the Borg has gained. This kind of thing giving these career specific abilities a component to counter in-game mechanics that gives them value without a full on buff that might imbalance the game.
As I have been saying though I like a engineering ability like extend shields might be well suited to a change that has it turned from a standard shield heal, to more of a support based ability. In that you use this ability extending your shields around a target reducing yoru shield hp by a certain percentage, while as a trade-off you now cause shield heals to heal both your shields an apply a percentage of that heal to the target of your extend shield ability. I could see this made to be a toggle with no duration limit, but with a maximum tether distance.
Well said!
While what you said is true, Engineering Team I, II, and III are fine right now. The current problem lies in Miracle Worker as it has fallen out of grace when you compare it to all the other competitive heals in the game. It should be one of the best heals in the game, but due to the HP scaling of Delta Rising, this is definitely no longer the case. As a matter of fact, as I pointed out previously, Engineering Team III actually outheals Miracle Worker consistently. Putting this into perspective, Miracle Worker is a captain ability while Engineering Team III is a Lt. Cmdr Boff ability. So right now, the main problem lies in MW, not in ET.
In that light, Fire on my Mark should really lose its hull debuff component, and just keep the de-stealth part. The innate hull debuff ability really ought to belong to Engineering Captains (but, for the love of Kahless, give it a name which actually describes what it does, like Buckle Hull *g*).
Furthermore, yes, as others outlined, Miracle Worker should be percentage-based, and not add a fixed amount of hull (which, considering how large hulls are nowadays, only effectively weakened MW).
▪ Miracle Worker Heal of 17150 : or about 18% on ship with 95k Hull.
▪ ENG TEAM I/II/III Heal(s) of 7700/10200/12800 : or 8%/10.7%/13.4% contrast to above.
Given how TAC & SCI Damage has expanded it clearly has not kept pace with an ENG ability to tank/heal/repair especially with higher damage dealt in Advanced PVE Q's. We should expect something more in line with:
▪ Miracle Worker results in Heal of 23500 : or about 24.7% on ship with 95k Hull.
▪ ENG TEAM I/II/III results in Heal(s) of 11200/13500/15900 : or 11.7%/14.2%/16.7%.
I believe something similar to the above ask is FAIR to correct the healing of Engineers; it's not too much but enough, as Miracle Worker is the only Captain Ability:
▪ Rotate Shield Frequency III (159.7) Shield Regeneration & Reduces Shield Damage by 36.5% for 30 sec.
▪ Nadion Inversion III provides +349 Resistence to SCI/TAC Subsystem Power Drain & -34.9% Weapon Power Cost
▪ EPS Power Transfer III which gives +31.2 All Power Setting & +187 Power Transfer Rate for 30 sec.
None of those other abilities are anything to laugh about if used properly; however, I still believe ENG healing abilities could use an increase as TANKS aren't want they used to be.
With the price of Nadion Bypass dropping to about 10 million EC, think I'll just use my zen to buy keys, sell a couple of them and use the other two for opening Kelvin lockboxes. (I know I'm unlikely to get a Kelvin Constituion, but most of the fun is in trying. :P)
No one here is asking for a massive increase to DPS; but some including myself don't think attack patterns for TAC should include lowering hull plating (ENG) / damage resistance as part of attack patterns ability. If any character lowers it slightly it should be more related to ENG ability like fracture hull plating part of some radiation DoT effect. TAC/SCI generally are capable of higher damage which is clear in the DPS league. Some are just asking for a slight increase to healing (which I admit even with two space skills in Hull Regeneration is nothing impressive or worth using):
▪ Miracle Worker Heal of 17150 : or about 18% on ship with 95k Hull & Improved Hull Regeneration of (+85).
▪ ENG TEAM I/II/III Heal(s) of 7700/10200/12800 : or 8%/10.7%/13.4% contrast to above.
Here's my thing as far as all that goes: Speccing heavily into the skill tree for your class is, or should be, intuitive. For Tac and Sci, it largely is, even though a Science-heavy build is currently the best way to go for max DPS. And that's where the disconnect comes in. Speccing heavily into Science skills on the tree coupled with the tactical skill tree gets you a lot more DPS than going tac-heavy. That's not intuitive.
No class should be penalized for not speccing into their roles. So, yeah, more than anybody else, engineers do need a boost. The new traits are a step in the right direction, but a baseline boost in healing at the very least is called for.
Still I think mostly the healing (Miracle Worker & ENG TEAM) were identified because even with a +85 (not to mention +20 from traits I forgot to factor in) 8-13% for ENG TEAM all gain's are wiped out almost as quickly as they were almost restored.
So this could use a slight increase especially at +100 skill, for those with less than +50 would benefit slightly less.
Tacs should never, ever be able to tank the way that they can. Abilities like Go Down Fighting, Attack Pattern Beta and Attack Pattern Delta should have been Engineering powers. It's hilariously been made even worse by that lockbox trait that makes Go Down Fighting even more ridiculous and out of place for a Tac captain than it already was to begin with.
Similarly, the Strategist specialization is a bunch of abilities that should have been baked into revised Engineering and given to no one else, IMHO.
So, since in games like this you can't nerf or take away what has already been given, lest everyone cry bloody murder, my suggestion is Engineering tweaks to captain abilities should be that we should be given abilities similar GDF, APB, and ABD. Perhaps work it in to what we already have. Add Go Down Fighting-style scaling resists and damage buffs to Miracle Worker. Add Attack Pattern Delta effects for adding resists while damage resists of our attackers into our Rotate Shield Frequency. Similar tweaks along those sorts of lines. Our EPS power transfer should have effects added to it, like perhaps ability cool downs/haste added, without our needing to buy a lockbox trait. It seems to me, this is thematically appropriate and makes us what we were supposed to be anyway, what we were at launch, actually.
It seems to me Science is fine, Engineering needs serious buffs/tweaking, and Tacs should pretty have the pause button hit for them and stop being given gift after gift after gift.
I agree engineers are way too weak right now. However, I might also add that a few of the science abilities also need to be touched on too. They're not underpowered to the point of engineering captain abilities, but they're by no means great either.
Finally decided to give my Rom alt (that I hadn't played since DR) some love again. Turns out I could use my crafted AP weps on my alt too, so I only upgraded a few Locators, and that's it. And I bought a T6 Fleet T'varo (which actually is a Fleet Malem). Still using my old Mk XII Borg space set on it. :P And no Lobi consoles upgraded yet.
Anyway, I had to smile, from ear to ear, when I remembered how incredibly OP Tact Captains are!
Yeah, that's 49.6% extra dmg from Attack Pattern Alpha, plus 5% CrtH, plus another whopping 49.6% CrtD. And all for 30 secs. Added to that +37.4% All Damage strength for 30 sec from Tactical Fleet. And, to add insult to injury, I slap my foes with -50 All Damage resistance for 30 sec on top of that, from Fire on my Mark (without even touching a Beta). And when that isn't enough, I activate my Singularity Overcharge ability, for even moar shrieking damage. And when I'm about to be defeated anyway, I press the 'get out of prison free' Go Down Fighting button, giving me a renewed +25% All Damage strength, this time for 60 secs, no less.
Hahaha, Cryptic, you are hilarious!
Seriously, I should be crying, for it's really sad how underpowered Engineers are. But it's so tragic, it became a joke, really. Don't get me wrong, I love being OP! (See my new sig *g*); but, seriously, Cryptic, for a long while to come, no doubt, I won't be able to look you in the eye with a straight face, next time you talk again about any alleged 'balance.'
meimei, the thing I don't understand is that upgrading weapons doesn't cost EC. I make the Superior Upgrades, one a day for free with the Fleet Research lab project, and I use dil, which is like mana from heaven, but there's no EC cost.
So to me it looks like apples and oranges. I have plenty of upgraded weapons and everything else worth upgrading, but I too am perpetually short of EC.
Ah, yes, see, I craft my Superior Upgrades the old-fashioned way: I buy them. :P So, yeah, for me it costs EC. Me, I'm always short on Refined Dilithium. But I hear you.
I have the same feeling whenever I switch from my engineer main to my tac. The idea that tacs get attack pattern alpha while engineers get rotate shield frequency (which is supposed to be the counter to APA?) is laughable. Even the supposed king of the engineering abilities (miracle worker) can't really counter an alpha strike since miracle worker is an instant thing and then it's on cooldown.
It's bad that tacs do what they're supposed to do (damage) so much better than engineers do what they're supposed to do (heal, etc)
I think the idea of Fire on my Mark is that you encourage your team to fire at the target you selected, so the hull debuff seems more thematically relevant than the stealth debuff.
But it could be something else entirely - it could, say, grant the attackers temporary hit points or a hull resistance buff to the ally attacking the same target. Still a good reason to go for your mark, but instead of increasing DPS, it increases everyone's survivability.