?---???---why are bajorians so bad---???---?

stoplayer1

i heard that some people dont like the bajorians and i was wondering why are they so bad???

snoggymack22

To quote one of my favorite songs ... Bad meaning bad or bad meaning good?

meimeitoo

They're generally seen as religious zealots, stuck in rituals, and not all that open-minded.

snoggymack22

meimeitoo wrote: »

They're generally seen as religious zealots, stuck in rituals, and not all that open-minded.

They're also terrorists, and in 2016 people don't take too kindly to terrorists.

ryghan

Some people not liking other people isn't new or exclusive...lols. Bajorans are what they are - some folks like em, some folks don't, and soome folks couldn't care less one way or the other. /shrug

kodachikuno

mostly cause the bulk of bajoran characters in the series and the game are really obnoxious TRIBBLE holes

meimeitoo

snoggymack22 wrote: »

meimeitoo wrote: »

They're generally seen as religious zealots, stuck in rituals, and not all that open-minded.

They're also terrorists, and in 2016 people don't take too kindly to terrorists.

That too. There was, IMHO, way too much justifying going on in DS9, with regard to the Bajorans' terrorism. For instance, when Kira is captured by a Cardassian who wants to execute her for her crimes, she fully admits to murdering innocent Cardassian families, merely for being on Bajor, because 'they were not supposed to be there' (I forgot the exact wording). We like Kira, and the Episodes are written to support their terrorism, but it was questionable at times, for certain.

thunderfoot

Bajorans are not bad. They're just written that way.

jade1280

kodachikuno wrote: »

mostly cause the bulk of bajoran characters in the series and the game are really obnoxious **** holes

This pretty much sums it up, Because of this and the constant exposure to those attitude's you come to hate them.

Only reason they became part of the federation was so we could annax their spacehole without "being bad guys".

meimeitoo

kodachikuno wrote: »

mostly cause the bulk of bajoran characters in the series and the game are really obnoxious **** holes

I liked Neela, though. (Before she went psycho) Named my Vesta after her too.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

xyquarze

snoggymack22 wrote: »

They're also terrorists, and in 2016 people don't take too kindly to terrorists.

As the saying goes: one person's terrorist is another one's freedom fighter.

While I do agree that most Bajorans (as in "named characters who speak a line") are very annoying - though I do like both Kira and Ro, even though the former is somewhat overdone in places - and that there are some things which I'd consider not good (to use a very euphemistic euphemism), people seem to overlook what they were fighting (freedom fighting or terror fighting - your pick) against. The main Cardassian government was after all a not very subtle allusion to the first half of the last century.

I DO think however, that the Bajorans tend to get a lot of flak along the whole "is DS9 the best or the worst ever" series discussion. The whole heavy handed "social situation" angle can be considered either an aspect of depth in the series or taking away from the main draw of space action.

thlaylierah

I think it's because they try really hard to be that way.

kodachikuno

xyquarze wrote: »

people seem to overlook what they were fighting (freedom fighting or terror fighting - your pick) against. The main Cardassian government was after all a not very subtle allusion to the first half of the last century.

one can rebel and fight for freedom w/o murdering innocents and non-combatants. Harder, but better.

snoggymack22

xyquarze wrote: »

snoggymack22 wrote: »

They're also terrorists, and in 2016 people don't take too kindly to terrorists.

As the saying goes: one person's terrorist is another one's freedom fighter.

While I do agree that most Bajorans (as in "named characters who speak a line") are very annoying - though I do like both Kira and Ro, even though the former is somewhat overdone in places - and that there are some things which I'd consider not good (to use a very euphemistic euphemism), people seem to overlook what they were fighting (freedom fighting or terror fighting - your pick) against. The main Cardassian government was after all a not very subtle allusion to the first half of the last century.

I DO think however, that the Bajorans tend to get a lot of flak along the whole "is DS9 the best or the worst ever" series discussion. The whole heavy handed "social situation" angle can be considered either an aspect of depth in the series or taking away from the main draw of space action.

This is the kind of discussion I've wanted to have about DS9 for a long time.

The Bajorans are depicted as freedom fighters and are on the side of the good guys.

But the series wrapped in summer of 1999.

I constantly think about how the stories might have been affected, and the characterizations could have changed if it had kept going past 9/11, when the country itself changed its outlook on the freedom fighting tactics the Bajorans used. While the Cardassians were painted as the villains in a broad stroke, we do see often that Bajoran freedom fighters did terrible acts of terrorism to the Cardassians. And there were quite a few sympathetic Cardassians in the ongoing story.

As a country, the U.S. has had a massive paradigm shift in how it treats the tactics that the Bajorans used. And looking back on their traits, they are religious zealots who incorporate acts of terrorism in their overall push for freedom.

I'm constantly intrigued by the idea of revisiting the Bajoran/Cardassian relationship this many years later with a very different perspective on things. I don't know. But yeah, what I'm getting at is while the stories did paint the Bajorans as freedom fighters quite often, there was depth and an edge to that. And while the stories did paint the Cardassians as tyrannical conquerors, there was even depth and sympathy for some of that, especially in the final season arc as you got to know more of the Cardassians when they became the conquered.

You're right the series had depth. But I think in a re-examination of it, it has even more potential depth than ever before. Because I agree, one person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist. And there has been a pretty big shift in American views on that whole concept in the years since DS9 aired.

So. Much. Potential.

hawku001x

?---???---??---?---??----?----????--??----??--?

centaurianalpha

My very first character was a Bajoran engineer; they are traditionalists, which means they are serious about defending their heritage and identity. Probably explains why StarFleet has so few of them...

admrenlarreck

kodachikuno wrote: »

xyquarze wrote: »

people seem to overlook what they were fighting (freedom fighting or terror fighting - your pick) against. The main Cardassian government was after all a not very subtle allusion to the first half of the last century.

one can rebel and fight for freedom w/o murdering innocents and non-combatants. Harder, but better.

Dont forget the Cardassians rounded up and killed Bajoran men, women, and children. Those that were not killed were then placed in forced labor camps, Women were taken for "Comfort" by Cardassian soldiers.

I agree that some of the Bajoran characters were a bit........overbearing. Kai Winn being a great example of that. But less overbearing characters make for not so exciting TV.

Yes I have a LOT of Bajoran Toons in STO Even have one on the KDF side so of course I am partial to them. It also seems to me that the culture is a lot more fleshed out. Thinking back over all of the series, I think the writers only tried to flesh out two species Bajorans and Klingons. and of the two most of the time the bajorans got a lot more coverage.

My personel thought is they want to be Bajorans and can't so they are Jealous.

May the Prophets guide you on your search.

empireofsteve

They are excellent when your toon is a Cardassian. Remove their names, give then generic outfits and remind them they are nothing by giving them the most minimal gear and they WILL learn their place. If they do not, discard and repeat.

I have done it on onwith toon and it works well.

admrenlarreck

empireofsteve wrote: »

They are excellent when your toon is a Cardassian. Remove their names, give then generic outfits and remind them they are nothing by giving them the most minimal gear and they WILL learn their place. If they do not, discard and repeat.

I have done it on onwith toon and it works well.

I never learn lol. I was at a convention one time and a cardy was there in full makeup and unifrom. I put on my Bajoran makeup and earring grabbed a phaser and followed him around to make sure he didnt cause trouble...

markhawkman

Well, we see the Bajorans after the Cardassian government has given the Bajorans a rather solid reason to want to wipe out the Cardassian race in general.... so yeah, there's a lot of general hatred of the Cardassians from the Bajorans. But a lot of that hatred was earned. Not ALL but a large chunk of it.

theraven2378

They refuse to bow down and be occupied, they welcomed the Cardassians in but it soon turned hostile when the Cardassians strip mined their world and nearly destroyed the Bajoran culture.

It's like any military occupation, people do not like being ruled by outsiders and will resort to drastic measures to resist. That has always been the case presently and historically on Earth, Bajor is no different

starkaos

snoggymack22 wrote: »

xyquarze wrote: »

snoggymack22 wrote: »

They're also terrorists, and in 2016 people don't take too kindly to terrorists.

As the saying goes: one person's terrorist is another one's freedom fighter.

While I do agree that most Bajorans (as in "named characters who speak a line") are very annoying - though I do like both Kira and Ro, even though the former is somewhat overdone in places - and that there are some things which I'd consider not good (to use a very euphemistic euphemism), people seem to overlook what they were fighting (freedom fighting or terror fighting - your pick) against. The main Cardassian government was after all a not very subtle allusion to the first half of the last century.

I DO think however, that the Bajorans tend to get a lot of flak along the whole "is DS9 the best or the worst ever" series discussion. The whole heavy handed "social situation" angle can be considered either an aspect of depth in the series or taking away from the main draw of space action.

This is the kind of discussion I've wanted to have about DS9 for a long time.

The Bajorans are depicted as freedom fighters and are on the side of the good guys.

But the series wrapped in summer of 1999.

I constantly think about how the stories might have been affected, and the characterizations could have changed if it had kept going past 9/11, when the country itself changed its outlook on the freedom fighting tactics the Bajorans used. While the Cardassians were painted as the villains in a broad stroke, we do see often that Bajoran freedom fighters did terrible acts of terrorism to the Cardassians. And there were quite a few sympathetic Cardassians in the ongoing story.

As a country, the U.S. has had a massive paradigm shift in how it treats the tactics that the Bajorans used. And looking back on their traits, they are religious zealots who incorporate acts of terrorism in their overall push for freedom.

I'm constantly intrigued by the idea of revisiting the Bajoran/Cardassian relationship this many years later with a very different perspective on things. I don't know. But yeah, what I'm getting at is while the stories did paint the Bajorans as freedom fighters quite often, there was depth and an edge to that. And while the stories did paint the Cardassians as tyrannical conquerors, there was even depth and sympathy for some of that, especially in the final season arc as you got to know more of the Cardassians when they became the conquered.

You're right the series had depth. But I think in a re-examination of it, it has even more potential depth than ever before. Because I agree, one person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist. And there has been a pretty big shift in American views on that whole concept in the years since DS9 aired.

So. Much. Potential.

There is a slight difference between the Bajorans and real religious zealots. The Bajorans were trying to reclaim their home from invaders. Religion is only used to give the Bajorans more depth to their character. They are not fighting because some religious leader tells them to, but for freedom.

Although, if Bajorans were created in the 21st Century, then there would definitely be some changes depending on which political stance the creators of this hypothetical DS9 wanted to portray.

psycholandlord

The Bajorans are nothing but filthy backwards savages who cried to the federation for help, claiming their subjugation was unjust despite their overt expansionism with those stupid primitive space sail boats. Cardassia brought them nothing but peace, enlightenment, and contentment but they spat in the face of this kindness with their cowardly bombings and idiot dogma. Then, when they finally get what they want and the federation offers them aid, they promptly start a doctrinal conflict and TRIBBLE up what little of an economy their planet had even more then the Cardassian pull-out, ensuring that they were completely worthless to everyone, and if it weren't for the wormhole (the inhabitants of which the Bajorans, of course, decided were divinity, despite both the scientific answers for the lifeforms in question, as well as their complete disinterest in interacting with any Bajoran natives) the Bajorans likely would have been left to their own devices and allowed to nuke and/or starve themselves, ridding the galaxy of yet another menace. Alas, the federation is opportunistic and desired the lands of the Gamma Quadrant, thereby preventing such righteous justice from being enacted.

Dukat was right.

Free Bajor.

gardat

It's very simple to explain why. To demonstrate let us list all the positive qualities of Bajoran culture.

I'll get us started:

alethkiraen

Just ask this great man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AKL1BNoqc4

meimeitoo

starkaos wrote: »

There is a slight difference between the Bajorans and real religious zealots. The Bajorans were trying to reclaim their home from invaders. Religion is only used to give the Bajorans more depth to their character. They are not fighting because some religious leader tells them to, but for freedom.

I know.

I dont think religion gave them more depth, though. To me, it ere made them more superficial: always folding scrolls, lighting candles, or engaged in some other outward ritual, and extremely close-minded (see the school episodes). And if not engaged in religion, then politics. Even on DS9, in game, Bajorans are always politically active somehow, fiercely arguing, waving their hands, balding their fists, etc.

Kira was an excellent character; but, I say, not because of her religion, but rather because, throughout the series, she started to transcend the rigid/simplistic thinking of the Bajorans, opening her eyes to more than just killing and spouting "Help, I'm being repressed!"

Unknown

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meimeitoo

reyan01 wrote: »

The Bajorans suffer the same problem as many a Trek species; planet of hats.

My main character is a Bajoran and my motivation for playing a Bajoran in the first place was/is my refusal to accept the stupid idea that almost every single individual on the damned PLANET shares the same ideology.
To be fair, this isn’t unique to the Bajorans either. For example, pretty much every Klingon we see is portrayed as an honour obsessed warrior. Pretty much every Cardassian we see is portrayed as being obsessed with loyalty to the state. Yes, there are exceptions – but they were always the exception rather than the rule, portrayed as being outcasts from society due to NOT conforming to the norm.
Its ironic really, since Trek general prides itself on diversity (IDIC) – but it doesn’t always portray it terribly well.

So no, I don’t dislike the Bajorans. I dislike the fact that they’re just another example of ‘planet of hats’.

^^ This!

You really pinpointed, for me, what I dislike about them! It's not that the Bajorans are bad per se, but they were badly written! Too two-dimensional, too uniform!

capnspanky

jade1280 wrote: »

kodachikuno wrote: »

mostly cause the bulk of bajoran characters in the series and the game are really obnoxious **** holes

This pretty much sums it up, Because of this and the constant exposure to those attitude's you come to hate them.

Only reason they became part of the federation was so we could annax their spacehole without "being bad guys".

I liked the episode where Dukat annexed Kira's mom's spacehole.

cidjack

capnspanky wrote: »

jade1280 wrote: »

kodachikuno wrote: »

mostly cause the bulk of bajoran characters in the series and the game are really obnoxious **** holes

This pretty much sums it up, Because of this and the constant exposure to those attitude's you come to hate them.

Only reason they became part of the federation was so we could annax their spacehole without "being bad guys".

I liked the episode where Dukat annexed Kira's mom's spacehole.

Annnnnnddd this threat just hit a new low.