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Borg and Time Travel Plot Hole

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Yes, Guinan had been to Earth in the 1800's, but that was pre-Federation, and Earth was considered to be a "backwater" planet at that time since she was actually hiding out there. After she left Earth, it's possible that no other El-Aurians came into contact with this area of the galaxy again until after the Borg invasion. Yes, all of mine are assumptions as well, but I like to think that they make a bit of sense when taking into account who would've/should've known what and when based on what we've actually seen on screen.
    Possible, but pure speculation. It seems rather unlikely only one El-Aurian ever came this way. Even if Earth was a backwater in the 19th century, there were other species in the region that were spacefaring already at that time. And we don't even know when Guinan left Earth. After the 19th century time travel encounter, the next we know she was on the refugee ship caught in the Nexus in Generations. She was mentioned having met Q in the 22nd century, but we don't know where.
    The important part is not how many El-Aurians came to Earth, but how many were assimilated AFTER coming to Earth. The available evidence suggests the number is 0. Several reasons.

    1: El-Auria was apparently assimilated centuries ago.
    2: It's probably the reason El-Aurians came to Earth in the first place.
    3: The refugees in generations were not said to be fleeing the Borg. We actually have no idea where they were going or why.
    1. El-Auria was assimilated in 2265.
    2. They had obviously been to Earth before that.
    3. The refugees in Generations were obviously not fleeing the Borg anymore, since "installed on tuesday" Enterprise-B would've been annihilated, but they had been there when the invasion happened. Both Soran and Guinan are familiar with the Borg.

    Also, one of the El-Aurian ships was named SS Robert Fox so they must have had some familiarity with Earth before leaving. And no, that wasn't Guinan's ship.
    1: Actually.... Star Trek.com says "long ago". Maybe the MA article should say "prior to" rather than "around".

    MA cites several episodes as the source of that, so presumably it was mentioned in one or more of them.
    I don't think so. I think those refs are just for that it was assimilated. I don't think any of them gave a specific year.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    edited December 2016
    azrael605 wrote: »
    @artan42

    Soren talked about the Borg to Picard while on Viridian III. "There was a time I wouldn't hurt a fly... then the Borg came."

    Can any context be derived as to how long he's had to stew?
    Edit: As in how long does it take him to put his plans into motion.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,940 Community Moderator
    artan42 wrote: »
    Why? They have a transwarp conduit directly to Earth from Unimatrix 1, if they cared they could have wiped it out easily.

    They had one... in the Voyager finale. Did they have one when they were first introduced? No. Did they have one at Wolf 359? No. Did they have one in the second attack? Not that we know of.

    Also in the Voyager finale, Starfleet did send a fleet there the SECOND it opened, meaning they could potentially bottleneck the Conduit.

    The reason the Borg want to assimilate humans is because they've been one of the most successful races at resisting them. Obviously they have some quality that makes them so that the Borg want.

    The Federation advances in tech, while the Borg stagnate unless they assimilate something new. IF the Borg were even somewhat aware of the Federation in the 23rd Century, it may be that they were deemed not of interest at the time due to technological level. They didn't show interest until the 24th Century, which is when they received the message from the 22nd Century. Their defeats at the hands of the Federation reinforced that interest.
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  • blckheart731blckheart731 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    Re: Kelvin timeline changes, etc. lol, simple answer is , Nero came back and everything from that point on, "sensor scans" of Narada, destruction of Vulcan, deaths and alternate life paths taken, caused the future of that reality to change. Now, a major component of Enterprise AND ST online is the Temporal Cold War. Stands to reason if the future was changed, the future events in the Temporal cold war were changed which likely changed the events in Enterprise and before. So the Kelvin universe is just the end result of multiple, unseen to us, timeline changes.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    rattler2 wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    Why? They have a transwarp conduit directly to Earth from Unimatrix 1, if they cared they could have wiped it out easily.

    They had one... in the Voyager finale. Did they have one when they were first introduced? No. Did they have one at Wolf 359? No. Did they have one in the second attack? Not that we know of.

    Also in the Voyager finale, Starfleet did send a fleet there the SECOND it opened, meaning they could potentially bottleneck the Conduit.

    The reason the Borg want to assimilate humans is because they've been one of the most successful races at resisting them. Obviously they have some quality that makes them so that the Borg want.

    The Federation advances in tech, while the Borg stagnate unless they assimilate something new. IF the Borg were even somewhat aware of the Federation in the 23rd Century, it may be that they were deemed not of interest at the time due to technological level. They didn't show interest until the 24th Century, which is when they received the message from the 22nd Century. Their defeats at the hands of the Federation reinforced that interest.

    Why do we not know of it? I thought it was quite clear in VOY that that conduit was how they got the Cubes to near Earth in BoBW and FC.

    And even if Earth did send a fleet to the conduit, what good would it do? It's a Borg Cube, the one in FC was a distraction for the Sphere, all that would happen is Starfleet would get another Wolf 359 right in Sector 001.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,016 Arc User
    Are you on reddit, and callyourself ruinthefun there? Because you totally sound like a fun-hating Ogre here, and not like a pig at all anymore.

    It's a long shot, but I'd suspect ruinthefun on reddit is ruinthefun from the forums pig-17.gif

    I'm totally not an ogre, neither do I hate fun. You'd know how much fun I have when you hear me squeal pig-47.gif​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Are you on reddit, and callyourself ruinthefun there? Because you totally sound like a fun-hating Ogre here, and not like a pig at all anymore.

    It's a long shot, but I'd suspect ruinthefun on reddit is ruinthefun from the forums pig-17.gif
    I knew you weren't the same. ;) I actually think I've read from some angrytarg on reddit.
    I'm totally not an ogre, neither do I hate fun. You'd know how much fun I have when you hear me squeal pig-47.gif​​
    Well, it is doubtful I'll ever hear your happy squeal , giving a certain... incompatibility in your preferences, IIRC. Ahem. And otherwise, the message board doesn't translate sounds so well.

    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Yes, Guinan had been to Earth in the 1800's, but that was pre-Federation, and Earth was considered to be a "backwater" planet at that time since she was actually hiding out there. After she left Earth, it's possible that no other El-Aurians came into contact with this area of the galaxy again until after the Borg invasion. Yes, all of mine are assumptions as well, but I like to think that they make a bit of sense when taking into account who would've/should've known what and when based on what we've actually seen on screen.
    Possible, but pure speculation. It seems rather unlikely only one El-Aurian ever came this way. Even if Earth was a backwater in the 19th century, there were other species in the region that were spacefaring already at that time. And we don't even know when Guinan left Earth. After the 19th century time travel encounter, the next we know she was on the refugee ship caught in the Nexus in Generations. She was mentioned having met Q in the 22nd century, but we don't know where.
    The important part is not how many El-Aurians came to Earth, but how many were assimilated AFTER coming to Earth. The available evidence suggests the number is 0. Several reasons.

    1: El-Auria was apparently assimilated centuries ago.
    2: It's probably the reason El-Aurians came to Earth in the first place.
    3: The refugees in generations were not said to be fleeing the Borg. We actually have no idea where they were going or why.
    1. El-Auria was assimilated in 2265.
    2. They had obviously been to Earth before that.
    3. The refugees in Generations were obviously not fleeing the Borg anymore, since "installed on tuesday" Enterprise-B would've been annihilated, but they had been there when the invasion happened. Both Soran and Guinan are familiar with the Borg.

    Also, one of the El-Aurian ships was named SS Robert Fox so they must have had some familiarity with Earth before leaving. And no, that wasn't Guinan's ship.
    1: Actually.... Star Trek.com says "long ago". Maybe the MA article should say "prior to" rather than "around".

    MA cites several episodes as the source of that, so presumably it was mentioned in one or more of them.
    I don't think so. I think those refs are just for that it was assimilated. I don't think any of them gave a specific year.
    Where would the year have come from, then?
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,016 Arc User
    I knew you weren't the same. ;) I actually think I've read from some angrytarg on reddit.

    Possibly.
    Well, it is doubtful I'll ever hear your happy squeal , giving a certain... incompatibility in your preferences, IIRC. Ahem. And otherwise, the message board doesn't translate sounds so well.

    I'd concur it's doubtful. But if you would you'd not question my appreciation for fun pig-25.gif​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    @meimeitoo

    So you have a functioning time machine to provide empirical evidence of how it works? No? Then you know precisely ****.


    I have one, yes. Private use only, though. Furthermore, I'd love to explain how this multiple universe thingy works, but it's really all rather complex. A video is worth a thousand words, though:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT7BtzicV0w
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Yes, Guinan had been to Earth in the 1800's, but that was pre-Federation, and Earth was considered to be a "backwater" planet at that time since she was actually hiding out there. After she left Earth, it's possible that no other El-Aurians came into contact with this area of the galaxy again until after the Borg invasion. Yes, all of mine are assumptions as well, but I like to think that they make a bit of sense when taking into account who would've/should've known what and when based on what we've actually seen on screen.
    Possible, but pure speculation. It seems rather unlikely only one El-Aurian ever came this way. Even if Earth was a backwater in the 19th century, there were other species in the region that were spacefaring already at that time. And we don't even know when Guinan left Earth. After the 19th century time travel encounter, the next we know she was on the refugee ship caught in the Nexus in Generations. She was mentioned having met Q in the 22nd century, but we don't know where.
    The important part is not how many El-Aurians came to Earth, but how many were assimilated AFTER coming to Earth. The available evidence suggests the number is 0. Several reasons.

    1: El-Auria was apparently assimilated centuries ago.
    2: It's probably the reason El-Aurians came to Earth in the first place.
    3: The refugees in generations were not said to be fleeing the Borg. We actually have no idea where they were going or why.
    1. El-Auria was assimilated in 2265.
    2. They had obviously been to Earth before that.
    3. The refugees in Generations were obviously not fleeing the Borg anymore, since "installed on tuesday" Enterprise-B would've been annihilated, but they had been there when the invasion happened. Both Soran and Guinan are familiar with the Borg.

    Also, one of the El-Aurian ships was named SS Robert Fox so they must have had some familiarity with Earth before leaving. And no, that wasn't Guinan's ship.
    1: Actually.... Star Trek.com says "long ago". Maybe the MA article should say "prior to" rather than "around".
    MA cites several episodes as the source of that, so presumably it was mentioned in one or more of them.
    I don't think so. I think those refs are just for that it was assimilated. I don't think any of them gave a specific year.
    Where would the year have come from, then?
    It reads like guesswork. The article doesn't actually even give a specific year it says "around 2265"...

    *looks in article history*

    The original version of the article has the date.... It does NOT list a reference. Kinda surprising no one changed it.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Yes, Guinan had been to Earth in the 1800's, but that was pre-Federation, and Earth was considered to be a "backwater" planet at that time since she was actually hiding out there. After she left Earth, it's possible that no other El-Aurians came into contact with this area of the galaxy again until after the Borg invasion. Yes, all of mine are assumptions as well, but I like to think that they make a bit of sense when taking into account who would've/should've known what and when based on what we've actually seen on screen.
    Possible, but pure speculation. It seems rather unlikely only one El-Aurian ever came this way. Even if Earth was a backwater in the 19th century, there were other species in the region that were spacefaring already at that time. And we don't even know when Guinan left Earth. After the 19th century time travel encounter, the next we know she was on the refugee ship caught in the Nexus in Generations. She was mentioned having met Q in the 22nd century, but we don't know where.
    The important part is not how many El-Aurians came to Earth, but how many were assimilated AFTER coming to Earth. The available evidence suggests the number is 0. Several reasons.

    1: El-Auria was apparently assimilated centuries ago.
    2: It's probably the reason El-Aurians came to Earth in the first place.
    3: The refugees in generations were not said to be fleeing the Borg. We actually have no idea where they were going or why.
    1. El-Auria was assimilated in 2265.
    2. They had obviously been to Earth before that.
    3. The refugees in Generations were obviously not fleeing the Borg anymore, since "installed on tuesday" Enterprise-B would've been annihilated, but they had been there when the invasion happened. Both Soran and Guinan are familiar with the Borg.

    Also, one of the El-Aurian ships was named SS Robert Fox so they must have had some familiarity with Earth before leaving. And no, that wasn't Guinan's ship.
    1: Actually.... Star Trek.com says "long ago". Maybe the MA article should say "prior to" rather than "around".
    MA cites several episodes as the source of that, so presumably it was mentioned in one or more of them.
    I don't think so. I think those refs are just for that it was assimilated. I don't think any of them gave a specific year.
    Where would the year have come from, then?
    It reads like guesswork. The article doesn't actually even give a specific year it says "around 2265"...

    *looks in article history*

    The original version of the article has the date.... It does NOT list a reference. Kinda surprising no one changed it.

    "Around 2265" sounds like it's based on a relative time...like a character said it was 100 years ago or something.

    Well I'm not going to rewatch all the episodes and Generations just to see if it's mentioned somewhere. Not that important. But in any case, it must have happened before 2293, the year the refugees were rescued from the Nexus.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Yes, Guinan had been to Earth in the 1800's, but that was pre-Federation, and Earth was considered to be a "backwater" planet at that time since she was actually hiding out there. After she left Earth, it's possible that no other El-Aurians came into contact with this area of the galaxy again until after the Borg invasion. Yes, all of mine are assumptions as well, but I like to think that they make a bit of sense when taking into account who would've/should've known what and when based on what we've actually seen on screen.
    Possible, but pure speculation. It seems rather unlikely only one El-Aurian ever came this way. Even if Earth was a backwater in the 19th century, there were other species in the region that were spacefaring already at that time. And we don't even know when Guinan left Earth. After the 19th century time travel encounter, the next we know she was on the refugee ship caught in the Nexus in Generations. She was mentioned having met Q in the 22nd century, but we don't know where.
    The important part is not how many El-Aurians came to Earth, but how many were assimilated AFTER coming to Earth. The available evidence suggests the number is 0. Several reasons.

    1: El-Auria was apparently assimilated centuries ago.
    2: It's probably the reason El-Aurians came to Earth in the first place.
    3: The refugees in generations were not said to be fleeing the Borg. We actually have no idea where they were going or why.
    1. El-Auria was assimilated in 2265.
    2. They had obviously been to Earth before that.
    3. The refugees in Generations were obviously not fleeing the Borg anymore, since "installed on tuesday" Enterprise-B would've been annihilated, but they had been there when the invasion happened. Both Soran and Guinan are familiar with the Borg.

    Also, one of the El-Aurian ships was named SS Robert Fox so they must have had some familiarity with Earth before leaving. And no, that wasn't Guinan's ship.
    1: Actually.... Star Trek.com says "long ago". Maybe the MA article should say "prior to" rather than "around".
    MA cites several episodes as the source of that, so presumably it was mentioned in one or more of them.
    I don't think so. I think those refs are just for that it was assimilated. I don't think any of them gave a specific year.
    Where would the year have come from, then?
    It reads like guesswork. The article doesn't actually even give a specific year it says "around 2265"...

    *looks in article history*

    The original version of the article has the date.... It does NOT list a reference. Kinda surprising no one changed it.

    "Around 2265" sounds like it's based on a relative time...like a character said it was 100 years ago or something.

    Well I'm not going to rewatch all the episodes and Generations just to see if it's mentioned somewhere. Not that important. But in any case, it must have happened before 2293, the year the refugees were rescued from the Nexus.
    It looks like the writer wrote that section based mostly on Generations. If I was to guess I'd say they thought the ships caught in the Nexus were actively running from the Borg. But.... As has been pointed out, we really don't know where that convoy was going, where it was coming from, or why.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Yes, Guinan had been to Earth in the 1800's, but that was pre-Federation, and Earth was considered to be a "backwater" planet at that time since she was actually hiding out there. After she left Earth, it's possible that no other El-Aurians came into contact with this area of the galaxy again until after the Borg invasion. Yes, all of mine are assumptions as well, but I like to think that they make a bit of sense when taking into account who would've/should've known what and when based on what we've actually seen on screen.
    Possible, but pure speculation. It seems rather unlikely only one El-Aurian ever came this way. Even if Earth was a backwater in the 19th century, there were other species in the region that were spacefaring already at that time. And we don't even know when Guinan left Earth. After the 19th century time travel encounter, the next we know she was on the refugee ship caught in the Nexus in Generations. She was mentioned having met Q in the 22nd century, but we don't know where.
    The important part is not how many El-Aurians came to Earth, but how many were assimilated AFTER coming to Earth. The available evidence suggests the number is 0. Several reasons.

    1: El-Auria was apparently assimilated centuries ago.
    2: It's probably the reason El-Aurians came to Earth in the first place.
    3: The refugees in generations were not said to be fleeing the Borg. We actually have no idea where they were going or why.
    1. El-Auria was assimilated in 2265.
    2. They had obviously been to Earth before that.
    3. The refugees in Generations were obviously not fleeing the Borg anymore, since "installed on tuesday" Enterprise-B would've been annihilated, but they had been there when the invasion happened. Both Soran and Guinan are familiar with the Borg.

    Also, one of the El-Aurian ships was named SS Robert Fox so they must have had some familiarity with Earth before leaving. And no, that wasn't Guinan's ship.
    1: Actually.... Star Trek.com says "long ago". Maybe the MA article should say "prior to" rather than "around".
    MA cites several episodes as the source of that, so presumably it was mentioned in one or more of them.
    I don't think so. I think those refs are just for that it was assimilated. I don't think any of them gave a specific year.
    Where would the year have come from, then?
    It reads like guesswork. The article doesn't actually even give a specific year it says "around 2265"...

    *looks in article history*

    The original version of the article has the date.... It does NOT list a reference. Kinda surprising no one changed it.

    "Around 2265" sounds like it's based on a relative time...like a character said it was 100 years ago or something.

    Well I'm not going to rewatch all the episodes and Generations just to see if it's mentioned somewhere. Not that important. But in any case, it must have happened before 2293, the year the refugees were rescued from the Nexus.
    It looks like the writer wrote that section based mostly on Generations. If I was to guess I'd say they thought the ships caught in the Nexus were actively running from the Borg. But.... As has been pointed out, we really don't know where that convoy was going, where it was coming from, or why.
    Well, if you want to speculate on that...none of that explains the 2265. If the editor had assumed the ships had come directly from the battle, they would've written 2293.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    yeah, good point.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • gawainviiigawainviii Member Posts: 328 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Yeah... family guy is proof of nothing, & until there is actual proven documented time travel all theories of time travel are equally valid.
    Hypothesis. In science, when speaking of, as yet, unproven conjecture, we call it an hypothesis. A theory explains what a thing does AFTER its already been repeatedly proven.

    A scientific Law, similar to a theory, has been repeatedly proven. However, a Law defines how a thing works. This is why we have both a THEORY of Gravity and a LAW of Gravity at the same time. A theory does not become a law after repeated tests... They both answer two different questions.
    newstosiggy.png
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    gawainviii wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Yeah... family guy is proof of nothing, & until there is actual proven documented time travel all theories of time travel are equally valid.
    Hypothesis. In science, when speaking of, as yet, unproven conjecture, we call it an hypothesis. A theory explains what a thing does AFTER its already been repeatedly proven.

    A scientific Law, similar to a theory, has been repeatedly proven. However, a Law defines how a thing works. This is why we have both a THEORY of Gravity and a LAW of Gravity at the same time. A theory does not become a law after repeated tests... They both answer two different questions.
    Yeah, there have been no tests of any form of time travel, so realistically, it's all rampant speculation.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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  • gawainviiigawainviii Member Posts: 328 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    This is true, however in typical nomeclature the word theory is used...
    As my dad was fond of reminding me: "Just because everyone else does it, doesn't make it right or acceptable. Wrong is wrong. Period. Point blank. Never accept willful ignorance. Reject and correct at every opportunity."
    azrael605 wrote: »
    ...nobody, anywhere in this world, can say "time travel does/does not work like that" and not be talking out their colon.
    That we know of! B)

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    Well there's Theory and theory. Obviously they're not the same thing.

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,940 Community Moderator
    artan42 wrote: »

    Why do we not know of it? I thought it was quite clear in VOY that that conduit was how they got the Cubes to near Earth in BoBW and FC. ​​

    No. If the Borg had the Conduit to Earth that early, then there would be no need for them to TRAVEL through the quadrant, scoop up outposts along the Neutral Zone, chase Enterprise through a nebula, Battle of Wolf 359, travel THROUGH Sol System and passing Saturn...

    They could have bypassed EVERYTHING and hit Earth directly with little warning and the Federation would have fallen without much warning.

    The Conduit probably wasn't established until around the second battle in 2371. They may have had Conduits exiting in other regions of the Quadrant, but none in Sol System yet. And that one was collapsed by Voyager when the Transwarp Hub and the things inside the Conduit were destroyed.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »

    Why do we not know of it? I thought it was quite clear in VOY that that conduit was how they got the Cubes to near Earth in BoBW and FC. ​​

    No. If the Borg had the Conduit to Earth that early, then there would be no need for them to TRAVEL through the quadrant, scoop up outposts along the Neutral Zone, chase Enterprise through a nebula, Battle of Wolf 359, travel THROUGH Sol System and passing Saturn...

    They could have bypassed EVERYTHING and hit Earth directly with little warning and the Federation would have fallen without much warning.
    Unless the Borg actually wanted to scoop up outposts, chase Enterprise, do battle at Wolf 359, etc.

    For all that various villains (and at times heroes) pretend the Federation = Earth, it really doesn't. If the Borg actually wanted to destroy the Federation instead of just picking off targets of opportunity, they could've sent in enough cubes, conduit or no conduit, that no amount of warning would've stopped them. Behavior they've demonstrated when they actually try to end an opponent.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    It's entirely possible(but speculation) that the Borg will "farm" civilizations. As we've seen they'll often slowly pick off one world at a time instead of trying to actually capture all of a civilization.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    rattler2 wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »

    Why do we not know of it? I thought it was quite clear in VOY that that conduit was how they got the Cubes to near Earth in BoBW and FC.

    No. If the Borg had the Conduit to Earth that early, then there would be no need for them to TRAVEL through the quadrant, scoop up outposts along the Neutral Zone, chase Enterprise through a nebula, Battle of Wolf 359, travel THROUGH Sol System and passing Saturn...

    They could have bypassed EVERYTHING and hit Earth directly with little warning and the Federation would have fallen without much warning.

    The Conduit probably wasn't established until around the second battle in 2371. They may have had Conduits exiting in other regions of the Quadrant, but none in Sol System yet. And that one was collapsed by Voyager when the Transwarp Hub and the things inside the Conduit were destroyed.

    Of course not, but that would be working on the assumption that the Borg were only interested in Earth. Even if that was their goal, why not take in some sights and explore the Federation/Romulan Neutral Zone? The Borg of that time existed to learn and how they acted in BoBW fits that even if the conduit already existed.
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Yeah... family guy is proof of nothing, & until there is actual proven documented time travel all theories of time travel are equally valid.

    I see your point applied to real life but it dosn't apply to Star Trek. It's a fictional universe with (mostly) consistent rules for time travel.
    coolbatman wrote: »
    there is time travel,problem is its only in 1 direction.......forward,

    Yes, we all do it everyday, at a rate of one second per second.
    coolbatman wrote: »
    no empirical evidence exists that traveling backward in time is possible (outside of star trek)

    Really? Nothing outside of Star Trek? No other science fiction, horror, fantasy, or other fiction has ever postulated backwards time travel other than Star Trek?​​
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  • maxfive00maxfive00 Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    The time frame of Battle of Sector 001.Is 2373 months before the Dominion War and 3-4 month into Borg-Species 8472 War.The Borg knew they couldn't win the war.The are clues in ds9,voy and First Contact.
    DS9 "In Purgatory's Shadow (Part 1)"
    Voy "Scorpion (Part 1 and 2)"
    Voy "Year of Hell (Part 1 and 2)"
    First Contact (Starfleet wasn't acting like a they were at war.Because USS Enterprise was patrolling the Romulan Neutral Zone.Where the Dominion were doing hit and run attacks from Romulan space.Having the USS Enterprise near the Neutral Zone the Dominion would have hit USS Enterprise right off the bat.)
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