Why are people whining about the 1.5 billion price on the side market?
Considering some of the prices are getting to 290 keys at 5,440,000 EC a per key trying getting close to 3 billion.
Perhaps the Dil-Ex having reached 400+ D/z this year might have something to do with the costs of obtaining said rare items inevitably having to be passed down to buyers? Maybe less players around willing to try to profit at such very low odds? Be happy these items are still sold and at still decent prices.
Earlier I outlined core elements of why things are the way they are. Others here have shown you the math outright, and they speak from their wealth of experience, not theory or speculation. Just perhaps some iota of reading and learning just might help dispel some of the comical complaining and whining.
So than you admit that the free market is working...so what is the issue than? Continue to not buy stuff and prices will fall.
Which is what I do. I once resolved to never pay > 400 mil for a ship. So, all those JHAS boxes that went for 500+ mil, I patiently waited it all out, for years, until they got to around 300 mil; then I bought one. Same with the Vonph: bought the other ships from the series first (the advanced raider and the small carrier), as the mothership went for over 600 mil when it first came out. And now, last week, got my Vonph for a cool 150 mil.
All Good Things Come To Those Who Wait.
Having said that, the STO economy is definitely not just a matter of 'free market.' Unlike the real world, in which you can't so easily corner an entire market (unless you're literally sitting on your product: like oil barons), the Exchange is easily overtaken by a few tyconns (that was initially a typo, LOL, but I might as well leave it like that) who simply buy up all relevant packs, and sell them at exorbitant prices. Naturally, the buyer can still decide not to buy a ship for 3 billion. But there's where the 'free market' anology starts to buckle: if you were to sell a TV for $ 1,000,000, whereas you could set the same TV elsewhere for a mere $ 10,000, you'd never sell yours for that million. And yet in STO you would, because the buyer can't go elsewhere: it's either buy at a hugely abusive price, or have nothing at all.
Fortunately, the Devs, ever so often, release the old boxes anew, so prices can lower some. Still, as the re-occurance of the Infinity box demonstrates, the market is still way too easily manipulated. Nevertheless, I will wait out the T6 Connie too.
been trying to get the infinity ship prize pack from the r&d promo packs and not a single ship came this is really starting to P*** me of why is it that every one else is getting a ship from these promo packs but me I am so sick and tired of this >:(
That's frustrating man.
I know it's probably been suggested a zillion times thus far in this thread (haven't read past your post yet), but one of the most consistent ways to obtain lockbox or premium ships like the ones in the R&D packs, is to sell items (keys, the packs themselves) for EC on the exchange, and then take those resources and purchase the ship directly from someone (there's an STO Trade Reddit for example).
Did no one realize this is bait? OPer hasnt said anything after that, now we have 3 pages of everyone arguing with each other, please stop feeding the troll.
_____________________________________________________
Anyone want to give me a Temporal Heavy Dreadnought pack? I'll be your friend
Perhaps the Dil-Ex having reached 400+ D/z this year might have something to do with the costs of obtaining said rare items inevitably having to be passed down to buyers?
Rather irrelevant after the phoenix event drove it down to the 290s.
Be happy these items are still sold and at still decent prices.
Going from 100 to 200 dollars is not what i would call a decent price especially since the whole idea with the infinity giveaways seems to be making something more available to drive the price DOWN.
Perhaps the Dil-Ex having reached 400+ D/z this year might have something to do with the costs of obtaining said rare items inevitably having to be passed down to buyers?
Rather irrelevant after the phoenix event drove it down to the 290s.
Be happy these items are still sold and at still decent prices.
Going from 100 to 200 dollars is not what i would call a decent price especially since the whole idea with the infinity giveaways seems to be making something more available to drive the price DOWN.
You and everyone else are free to spend $250 opening 100 infinity R&D packs, for a 63.4% chance of getting at least one ship.
If you choose instead to pay someone else to take all the risk and do all the work, complaining about paying less than that seems silly.
It's not logical to complain about a private seller charging you $200 for a 100% chance, when Cryptic charges you $250 for a 63.4% chance.
However, some people take a different view altogether, and believe that the weather is manipulated or controlled by others.
Who, I wonder, has *ever* believed the weather is being manipulated or controlled by others?! LOL. Even among the most die-hard tinfoilers of this Earth, I've never ever heard of that. Like ever.
I know you were trying to dispel the notion of the STO market being manipulated. But bringing in the weather was The Worst Analogy Ever. Like ever.
However, some people take a different view altogether, and believe that the weather is manipulated or controlled by others.
Who, I wonder, has *ever* believed the weather is being manipulated or controlled by others?! LOL. Even among the most die-hard tinfoilers of this Earth, I've never ever heard of that. Like ever.
I know you were trying to dispel the notion of the STO market being manipulated. But bringing in the weather was The Worst Analogy Ever. Like ever.
Same kind of people who are convinced the space economy is manipulated and controlled.
Why, that's easily falsified: I believe the STO market is being manipulated and controlled, to some degree, and that there are several limiting factors that make it less than a full free market. Yet I don't 'believe that the weather is manipulated or controlled by others.'
The only ever true free market I've seen, in a game, was in EvE Online.
However, some people take a different view altogether, and believe that the weather is manipulated or controlled by others.
Who, I wonder, has *ever* believed the weather is being manipulated or controlled by others?! LOL. Even among the most die-hard tinfoilers of this Earth, I've never ever heard of that. Like ever.
I know you were trying to dispel the notion of the STO market being manipulated. But bringing in the weather was The Worst Analogy Ever. Like ever.
Same kind of people who are convinced the space economy is manipulated and controlled.
Why, that's easily falsified: I believe the STO market is being manipulated and controlled, to some degree, and that there are several limiting factors that make it less than a full free market. Yet I don't 'believe that the weather is manipulated or controlled by others.'
The only ever true free market I've seen, in a game, was in EvE Online.
Prices are biased very slightly toward the seller's favor in STO because the exchange only has WTS ads, not WTB ads, but that just makes pricing less efficient / slower.
And the insufficient exchange cap means that prices for the small number of items that exceed the cap also get biased up a bit, since there is no persistent supply of them on the market, so the supply seems smaller.
Beyond that, STO has a pretty efficient economy, and prices on the market closely track the costs to produce things.
Its very rare to see much of a disconnect between cost-to-produce and market price. And when you do see it, its very rare for it not to make sense.
Its only when it doesnt make sense that you can reasonably begin to believe that something nefarious is going on.
"Cornering the Market" continues to be one of the best ways in sto to turn a small fortune into a smaller one.
Actually, I don't disagree on any particular point. While I think the STO allows for *some* manipulation*, on a whole I agree, that nothing is being sold, in the long run, that is significantly above what it more or less should cost.
*As for 'manipulation', I don't mean that in a paranoid sense, but simply in the economic sense of being able to 'set it to your hand', like the Opec can control oil prices.
Patience is needed in this game. The KT Constitution is way overpriced right now for a Lockbox Ship. Wait until February or March when it joins its brethren in the Infinity and prices will plummet. I will wait.
I too picked up a Vonph weeks ago at 140 Million. Sitting on an Infinity R&D Ship Selector Box. Used the Phoenix to pick up a JHAS for a second Character and the first Bulwark. Don't need any ship that would make me pay over 350 Million on the Exchange or ever enter the Private Trading Channels to look for one.
The Infinity, in its various forms, is the great equalizer for items. Given the month length of this R&D version of the Infinity, it will assuredly dash any long term attempt at price manipulation for these ships.
See the T6 Jem'hadar Heavy Escort Carrier Bork Up Incident for an example of an attempted price manipulation.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Perhaps the Dil-Ex having reached 400+ D/z this year might have something to do with the costs of obtaining said rare items inevitably having to be passed down to buyers?
Rather irrelevant after the phoenix event drove it down to the 290s.
Be happy these items are still sold and at still decent prices.
Going from 100 to 200 dollars is not what i would call a decent price especially since the whole idea with the infinity giveaways seems to be making something more available to drive the price DOWN.
Rather not irrelevant since it has been a steady increase since the start of this year, affecting prices for everything and correlating rather well with EC price increases. Do you know how much keys used to go for? 1.9 Mil was the lowest I've seen. Now? 5M. This is a result of the dil-ex having increased as one major factor.
For phoenix event, which was a 1 week thing only, people used up zen to buy dilithium that would otherwise have been available to buy promo boxes, and also used up existing dilithium reserves on phoenix boxes (I bought 360 phoenix boxes total) that also would have been free to convert at low d/z for zen for promo boxes. In other words, a lot of people spent a lot, enough to cause an otherwise steadily increasing di-ex to come right down, and so far it seems aren't able or willing to spend more right away on these back-to-back 'events.'
Who ever said a lockbox ship costs $100 USD? It's a gamble, which as indicated by many others who all have observed the rates to be what someone else has mentioned, far north of that, and it's still a gamble, meaning you risk everything and can obtain not a whole lot in return other than what the lobi store allows you to sell, yet again at 'decent prices.' Lockbox rates have been steady, and if anything have become even more rare for the grand prizes: Vonph, Acheros, T6 event ships in phoenix boxes. R&D Packs cost more, so if their odds are ever so slightly higher, this is offset by their higher up front cost: now they're 22M each, and started at around 16M on first day, and can top out higher.
If you want what you strongly believe to be a 'decent price,' by all means, save up, and buy keys or packs, open them, test your luck against the RNG, and and see how your idea of 'decent price' stacks against the time, effort, resources invested, market forces, and risk fares out.
The infinity is not a "giveaway" unless you call shopping and gambling that. If PWE/Cryptic wanted to drive the prices down, all they'd have to do is increase the drop rates a little and/or lower the costs of the boxes. All they have done is combine previous promo ships in a choice pack along with ToS ships that are all quite new and highly sought after without any truly new prize either. It is also a limited time event, till some time in January, which makes them that much rarer.
Comments
And yet the ships are now twice as much as they were in the original promo and from the looks of things increasing.
Considering some of the prices are getting to 290 keys at 5,440,000 EC a per key trying getting close to 3 billion.
Perhaps the Dil-Ex having reached 400+ D/z this year might have something to do with the costs of obtaining said rare items inevitably having to be passed down to buyers? Maybe less players around willing to try to profit at such very low odds? Be happy these items are still sold and at still decent prices.
Earlier I outlined core elements of why things are the way they are. Others here have shown you the math outright, and they speak from their wealth of experience, not theory or speculation. Just perhaps some iota of reading and learning just might help dispel some of the comical complaining and whining.
Which is what I do.
All Good Things Come To Those Who Wait.
Having said that, the STO economy is definitely not just a matter of 'free market.' Unlike the real world, in which you can't so easily corner an entire market (unless you're literally sitting on your product: like oil barons), the Exchange is easily overtaken by a few tyconns (that was initially a typo, LOL, but I might as well leave it like that) who simply buy up all relevant packs, and sell them at exorbitant prices. Naturally, the buyer can still decide not to buy a ship for 3 billion. But there's where the 'free market' anology starts to buckle: if you were to sell a TV for $ 1,000,000, whereas you could set the same TV elsewhere for a mere $ 10,000, you'd never sell yours for that million. And yet in STO you would, because the buyer can't go elsewhere: it's either buy at a hugely abusive price, or have nothing at all.
Fortunately, the Devs, ever so often, release the old boxes anew, so prices can lower some. Still, as the re-occurance of the Infinity box demonstrates, the market is still way too easily manipulated. Nevertheless, I will wait out the T6 Connie too.
That's frustrating man.
I know it's probably been suggested a zillion times thus far in this thread (haven't read past your post yet), but one of the most consistent ways to obtain lockbox or premium ships like the ones in the R&D packs, is to sell items (keys, the packs themselves) for EC on the exchange, and then take those resources and purchase the ship directly from someone (there's an STO Trade Reddit for example).
I wish you luck in obtaining the ship you want!
Anyone want to give me a Temporal Heavy Dreadnought pack? I'll be your friend
Rather irrelevant after the phoenix event drove it down to the 290s.
Going from 100 to 200 dollars is not what i would call a decent price especially since the whole idea with the infinity giveaways seems to be making something more available to drive the price DOWN.
You and everyone else are free to spend $250 opening 100 infinity R&D packs, for a 63.4% chance of getting at least one ship.
If you choose instead to pay someone else to take all the risk and do all the work, complaining about paying less than that seems silly.
It's not logical to complain about a private seller charging you $200 for a 100% chance, when Cryptic charges you $250 for a 63.4% chance.
^^ Hard to refute this logic is.
Who, I wonder, has *ever* believed the weather is being manipulated or controlled by others?! LOL. Even among the most die-hard tinfoilers of this Earth, I've never ever heard of that. Like ever.
I know you were trying to dispel the notion of the STO market being manipulated. But bringing in the weather was The Worst Analogy Ever. Like ever.
Why, that's easily falsified: I believe the STO market is being manipulated and controlled, to some degree, and that there are several limiting factors that make it less than a full free market. Yet I don't 'believe that the weather is manipulated or controlled by others.'
The only ever true free market I've seen, in a game, was in EvE Online.
I stand by my comment that I've never heard of that before. Like ever. Guess I really underestimated the power of the tinfoil industry. LOL
just in case.... can I be yer friend
Actually, I don't disagree on any particular point. While I think the STO allows for *some* manipulation*, on a whole I agree, that nothing is being sold, in the long run, that is significantly above what it more or less should cost.
*As for 'manipulation', I don't mean that in a paranoid sense, but simply in the economic sense of being able to 'set it to your hand', like the Opec can control oil prices.
Everyone knows that the CBGC©® (Comic Book Guys Consortium) controls the Ship Market in STO, and as far as the Weather goes, the Stonecutters.
Patience is needed in this game. The KT Constitution is way overpriced right now for a Lockbox Ship. Wait until February or March when it joins its brethren in the Infinity and prices will plummet. I will wait.
I too picked up a Vonph weeks ago at 140 Million. Sitting on an Infinity R&D Ship Selector Box. Used the Phoenix to pick up a JHAS for a second Character and the first Bulwark. Don't need any ship that would make me pay over 350 Million on the Exchange or ever enter the Private Trading Channels to look for one.
The Infinity, in its various forms, is the great equalizer for items. Given the month length of this R&D version of the Infinity, it will assuredly dash any long term attempt at price manipulation for these ships.
See the T6 Jem'hadar Heavy Escort Carrier Bork Up Incident for an example of an attempted price manipulation.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Rather not irrelevant since it has been a steady increase since the start of this year, affecting prices for everything and correlating rather well with EC price increases. Do you know how much keys used to go for? 1.9 Mil was the lowest I've seen. Now? 5M. This is a result of the dil-ex having increased as one major factor.
For phoenix event, which was a 1 week thing only, people used up zen to buy dilithium that would otherwise have been available to buy promo boxes, and also used up existing dilithium reserves on phoenix boxes (I bought 360 phoenix boxes total) that also would have been free to convert at low d/z for zen for promo boxes. In other words, a lot of people spent a lot, enough to cause an otherwise steadily increasing di-ex to come right down, and so far it seems aren't able or willing to spend more right away on these back-to-back 'events.'
Who ever said a lockbox ship costs $100 USD? It's a gamble, which as indicated by many others who all have observed the rates to be what someone else has mentioned, far north of that, and it's still a gamble, meaning you risk everything and can obtain not a whole lot in return other than what the lobi store allows you to sell, yet again at 'decent prices.' Lockbox rates have been steady, and if anything have become even more rare for the grand prizes: Vonph, Acheros, T6 event ships in phoenix boxes. R&D Packs cost more, so if their odds are ever so slightly higher, this is offset by their higher up front cost: now they're 22M each, and started at around 16M on first day, and can top out higher.
If you want what you strongly believe to be a 'decent price,' by all means, save up, and buy keys or packs, open them, test your luck against the RNG, and and see how your idea of 'decent price' stacks against the time, effort, resources invested, market forces, and risk fares out.
The infinity is not a "giveaway" unless you call shopping and gambling that. If PWE/Cryptic wanted to drive the prices down, all they'd have to do is increase the drop rates a little and/or lower the costs of the boxes. All they have done is combine previous promo ships in a choice pack along with ToS ships that are all quite new and highly sought after without any truly new prize either. It is also a limited time event, till some time in January, which makes them that much rarer.