been trying to get the infinity ship prize pack from the r&d promo packs and not a single ship came this is really starting to P*** me of why is it that every one else is getting a ship from these promo packs but me I am so sick and tired of this >:(
You are not throwing enough money at that the R&D packs.
Empirical evidence from Tribble have shown that the chances to get a grand prize ship from R&D packs is 1% vs 0.5% for lock box ships.
Soution: Throw more money. Sooner or later the RND gods will deem you worthy of a "1% roll". Whether that will take $3 or $3,000 is totally unknown. However, $3,000 will give you 400 chances for the RND gods to shine their blessing upon you.
The rest of the market is mostly left to its own devices as a free market, monopolies notwithstanding.
Aka what private channels are becoming these days, what with them unregulated markets where seller controls the price. Here's the thing 2 months ago when this was a limited thing people weren't sure was going to happen again the price went up to around 100 keys, its doubled on the rerun. Despite all the so called economic experts on the forums saying a rerun would drop the price so far its going.
This is what happens when you keep it locked behind a market where the seller can decide whatever price they want as opposed to the hard capped exchange.
I believe the ec exchange hard cap was upped from 500M to 1 Bn because that's the limit on single character after paying zen for an account-unlock from 10M, but then reduced to 750M because any overflow would vanish into thin air leading to a lot of complaints and frustration, so they gave us a 250M buffer.
I don't understand what you mean by 'sellers control the price.' It's supply and demand. I can wts 1Bn+ x keys for a tribble carcass, it's just going to get laughed at and ignored as much as unrealistic prices, which, after enough wts and sitting on such goods the seller can either lower the price or use the item on a toon and re-evaluate their spending and risks. If people decide to buy/trade, that means they either find it a good deal or accept that to be the items' value. This makes sure that items maintain their price so that only those who really want them are able to get them. This also serves to keep the relative value of every other item in check.
How does the ec exchange regulate the price more so than 'unregulated markets' which is nothing more than the ability to make private trades of unbound goods and ec between players tied to chat channels. When something, by the forces of supply and demand, is in excess of whatever exchange hard cap may be, it goes private.
The end result of having a hard cap on the exchange isn't lower prices. Instead, it's people deciding their time/cash/risk is not worth the hard cap, and so supply crashes, demand skyrockets, and nobody opening various boxes unless they personally want only one item - with the rest of the goods becoming undesirable as opposed to tradeable. This is bad for the game economy, bad for PWE/cryptic, and bad for casual players.
As to what will happen with re-runs, well, it's a good thing there is a free market were we can speculate, take risks, profit or lose.
Aka what private channels are becoming these days, what with them unregulated markets where seller controls the price. Here's the thing 2 months ago when this was a limited thing people weren't sure was going to happen again the price went up to around 100 keys, its doubled on the rerun. Despite all the so called economic experts on the forums saying a rerun would drop the price so far its going.
This is what happens when you keep it locked behind a market where the seller can decide whatever price they want as opposed to the hard capped exchange.
Yes, most of the very rare items on the exchange as well as the channels come from a (comparatively) limited number of people opening boxes by the hundreds. (Other people may open boxes, too, but are probably more likely to keep stuff they find). Thus we have an oligopoly, and yes, that needs supervision. However, just a simple rule may not work.
When you "force" deals onto the exchange, i. e. maxing them at 750M (or is it 1B now?) - ignoring the question on how you want to do that - sellers may not want to sell at all and prefer using the stuff themselves. Meaning "no market at all"
If they indeed have excess ships they might be willing to sell because they have no use otherwise, they may do so. But will probably refrain from opening boxes in the future, if they don't think they get back enough. Again, a severe reduction in market.
I really am standing in front of the line at the "Bash Adam Smith Fun Fair", but you need to understand how markets work and how things are interconnected before applying a solution. And it's (almost) never "everything else stays the same just X will be improved".
Now you may consider that "in real life" some such restrictions on market power (minimum wage, price caps, otherwise regulated prices) do work. But that's because we're talking "essentials" there. Any company needs workers to function and so on. But here in STO, we're talking pure luxury. The whole game for a start is a luxury to begin with, but the extremely rare lock box items are another luxury item within this luxury world. Nobody needs to play this game, nobody who plays this game needs lockbox ships. Nobody who plays this game needs the sale of lockbox ships to support his playing the game. So many people won't go the extra mile if they don't deem it "worth their time".
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
^ even for essentials, arbitrary price caps in some countries have led to empty store shelves, 12 hour lines to buy bread, and black markets supplying the goods at even higher prices than before the caps. Zimbabwe taking all the farms away from the evil profit-making white folks led to crop failures and starvation along with the 100 trillion dollar bank note.
been trying to get the infinity ship prize pack from the r&d promo packs and not a single ship came this is really starting to P*** me of why is it that every one else is getting a ship from these promo packs but me I am so sick and tired of this >:(
Why is it that every time there's a promo, losers start whining about not getting the grand prize?!
Or were you just trolling?! Kinda looks like it. If so, okay, you got me: I fell for it.
^ even for essentials, arbitrary price caps in some countries have led to empty store shelves, 12 hour lines to buy bread, and black markets supplying the goods at even higher prices than before the caps. Zimbabwe taking all the farms away from the evil profit-making white folks led to crop failures and starvation along with the 100 trillion dollar bank note.
That's why I wrote "some". And since we need the hypothetical scenario of a world without a black market (however that would work in STO without taking any and all direct trade ability and Fleet Banks and... away), different results are to be expected. But yes, you're right, as soon as a black market exists, alternate currencies come up (Cigarettes or Chocolate in RL, Keys in STO), bypassing the caps.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
If you want to know why the ships are so expensive, now you know exactly the reason why.
If you take a little time to figure out how things work in sto, you quickly learn that contrary to the ramblings of the wild-eyed and the ignorant, the cost of just about any item closely tracks the cost to produce it in the game.
Well, from the 99 other packs you'll get 990 lobi, enough for a ship. Plus the mats themselves. So yeah, there's a premium on it, and why shouldn't it be? First, as has been mentioned, there's the risk of getting no ship at all from your 100 packs (roughly 37%, so not negligible at all. More than one out of three will fail to do so. For the market that may be evened out by those getting more than one ship, but that's of little use to the one not getting one). Then there's the actual time spent buying boxes, opening boxes, sorting stuff, putting it out for sale. Plus the risk that nobody will buy the ship at the price you're asking. Yap, enough reasons to make a profit.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Correction ... The 23rd century ships have never really hit the exchange. Not even last time as all sales were well beyond the EC cap of the exchange. [/quote] False. A few did hit the exchange both last time and this time. They have not stockpiled on the exchange, but they have sold there.
I do recommend using trade channels for reliability though, very few people are posting them.
Well, I've seen prices higher than that asked. Not much higher percentage wise, but in absolute numbers it adds up. But again, that is okay, since the seller carries work and risk.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
I got three Bundles for Lobi and whatever else that may transpire and got a Ship Selector Box in the first four Packs opened. So no complaints at all.
When they first announced the Infinity R&D about four Annoraxs and a Strike/Recon Ship showed up on the Exchange. They are no longer there but did not check again today.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
At which you guys will just jack up the price again.
No doubt, it's what the Stonecutters do! Just for fun they lowered the zen cost to 273, but once they get bored they'll flip the control switches to raise it back up to 400+. They control everything, not nonsense like "supply and demand." Elon Musk is of course one of them, how else could he release the electric car?
When they first announced the Infinity R&D about four Annoraxs and a Strike/Recon Ship showed up on the Exchange. They are no longer there but did not check again today.
Can confirm, I did see a few Annoraxes on the exchange, and one T6 JHAS, and they weren't bought up instantly either. Why? Uncertainty about how this R&D promo event will play out, combined with the free market dynamics doing their thing.
How about if you want something you work for it like everyone else?
At which you guys will just jack up the price again.
This is not how it works. Buyers always set the price. ALWAYS. If buyers generally wouldn't or couldn't pay a certain price, the price would naturally drop until buyers start buying the ships. At that point, the price is set. If buyers buy a specific type of item too quickly, this pushes the price up. Sellers don't set prices. Buyers do.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
I haven't opened lots of promotion/lockbox stuff in a while, long ago I usually got lucky every time. But that's no longer the case, coupled with the key prices, I refrain from doing so.
But, I had enough unneeded Zen that I bought a 4-Pack of R&D thingies and the first box dropped the ship box, which will now collect dust in my account bank, since I have no idea about what I will do with it.
Why are people whining about the 1.5 billion price on the side market? Packs are currently going for 24.5 million. Calculate cost of packs at 300 Zen equals you need to buy 62 packs or 18,400 Zen or $184 us dollars. Maybe a bit more if the after market price rises. But surely for $200 us you are guaranteed to get one.
Comments
You are not throwing enough money at that the R&D packs.
Empirical evidence from Tribble have shown that the chances to get a grand prize ship from R&D packs is 1% vs 0.5% for lock box ships.
Soution: Throw more money. Sooner or later the RND gods will deem you worthy of a "1% roll". Whether that will take $3 or $3,000 is totally unknown. However, $3,000 will give you 400 chances for the RND gods to shine their blessing upon you.
kappa
I believe the ec exchange hard cap was upped from 500M to 1 Bn because that's the limit on single character after paying zen for an account-unlock from 10M, but then reduced to 750M because any overflow would vanish into thin air leading to a lot of complaints and frustration, so they gave us a 250M buffer.
I don't understand what you mean by 'sellers control the price.' It's supply and demand. I can wts 1Bn+ x keys for a tribble carcass, it's just going to get laughed at and ignored as much as unrealistic prices, which, after enough wts and sitting on such goods the seller can either lower the price or use the item on a toon and re-evaluate their spending and risks. If people decide to buy/trade, that means they either find it a good deal or accept that to be the items' value. This makes sure that items maintain their price so that only those who really want them are able to get them. This also serves to keep the relative value of every other item in check.
How does the ec exchange regulate the price more so than 'unregulated markets' which is nothing more than the ability to make private trades of unbound goods and ec between players tied to chat channels. When something, by the forces of supply and demand, is in excess of whatever exchange hard cap may be, it goes private.
The end result of having a hard cap on the exchange isn't lower prices. Instead, it's people deciding their time/cash/risk is not worth the hard cap, and so supply crashes, demand skyrockets, and nobody opening various boxes unless they personally want only one item - with the rest of the goods becoming undesirable as opposed to tradeable. This is bad for the game economy, bad for PWE/cryptic, and bad for casual players.
As to what will happen with re-runs, well, it's a good thing there is a free market were we can speculate, take risks, profit or lose.
Yes, most of the very rare items on the exchange as well as the channels come from a (comparatively) limited number of people opening boxes by the hundreds. (Other people may open boxes, too, but are probably more likely to keep stuff they find). Thus we have an oligopoly, and yes, that needs supervision. However, just a simple rule may not work.
When you "force" deals onto the exchange, i. e. maxing them at 750M (or is it 1B now?) - ignoring the question on how you want to do that - sellers may not want to sell at all and prefer using the stuff themselves. Meaning "no market at all"
If they indeed have excess ships they might be willing to sell because they have no use otherwise, they may do so. But will probably refrain from opening boxes in the future, if they don't think they get back enough. Again, a severe reduction in market.
I really am standing in front of the line at the "Bash Adam Smith Fun Fair", but you need to understand how markets work and how things are interconnected before applying a solution. And it's (almost) never "everything else stays the same just X will be improved".
Now you may consider that "in real life" some such restrictions on market power (minimum wage, price caps, otherwise regulated prices) do work. But that's because we're talking "essentials" there. Any company needs workers to function and so on. But here in STO, we're talking pure luxury. The whole game for a start is a luxury to begin with, but the extremely rare lock box items are another luxury item within this luxury world. Nobody needs to play this game, nobody who plays this game needs lockbox ships. Nobody who plays this game needs the sale of lockbox ships to support his playing the game. So many people won't go the extra mile if they don't deem it "worth their time".
Why is it that every time there's a promo, losers start whining about not getting the grand prize?!
Or were you just trolling?! Kinda looks like it. If so, okay, you got me: I fell for it.
That's why I wrote "some". And since we need the hypothetical scenario of a world without a black market (however that would work in STO without taking any and all direct trade ability and Fleet Banks and... away), different results are to be expected. But yes, you're right, as soon as a black market exists, alternate currencies come up (Cigarettes or Chocolate in RL, Keys in STO), bypassing the caps.
Well, from the 99 other packs you'll get 990 lobi, enough for a ship. Plus the mats themselves. So yeah, there's a premium on it, and why shouldn't it be? First, as has been mentioned, there's the risk of getting no ship at all from your 100 packs (roughly 37%, so not negligible at all. More than one out of three will fail to do so. For the market that may be evened out by those getting more than one ship, but that's of little use to the one not getting one). Then there's the actual time spent buying boxes, opening boxes, sorting stuff, putting it out for sale. Plus the risk that nobody will buy the ship at the price you're asking. Yap, enough reasons to make a profit.
Correction ... The 23rd century ships have never really hit the exchange. Not even last time as all sales were well beyond the EC cap of the exchange.
False. A few did hit the exchange both last time and this time. They have not stockpiled on the exchange, but they have sold there.
I do recommend using trade channels for reliability though, very few people are posting them.
When they first announced the Infinity R&D about four Annoraxs and a Strike/Recon Ship showed up on the Exchange. They are no longer there but did not check again today.
The Tin-foil Hat Brigade©® would speculate that the CBGC (Comic Book Guy Consortium©®) swept them all up to drive prices back up. Have to keep stuff in the Private Channels you know.
Then these guys set the tone for all this:
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'll be honest.. the only reason I scrolled through this stupid thread was to read your replies. lol
At which you guys will just jack up the price again.
No doubt, it's what the Stonecutters do! Just for fun they lowered the zen cost to 273, but once they get bored they'll flip the control switches to raise it back up to 400+. They control everything, not nonsense like "supply and demand." Elon Musk is of course one of them, how else could he release the electric car?
Can confirm, I did see a few Annoraxes on the exchange, and one T6 JHAS, and they weren't bought up instantly either. Why? Uncertainty about how this R&D promo event will play out, combined with the free market dynamics doing their thing.
But, I had enough unneeded Zen that I bought a 4-Pack of R&D thingies and the first box dropped the ship box, which will now collect dust in my account bank, since I have no idea about what I will do with it.