This thread is probably finally full of all the fallacies and misplaced senses of self-entitlement as all the past T6 TOS ship threads ever got. Can we sum up?
1.) The TOS Connie was always going to be a cash grab, if you thought otherwise, you were fooling yourself. Arguably the most famous spacecraft in science fiction, the TOS Constitution Class would be the greatest guaranteed cash cow Cryptic could have ever hope to have. Seriously, how could you ever have deluded yourself that they would put it in the C-Store when they have Asian MMO gambling boxes in this game?
2.) You don't deserve one just because you were a "true fan" (not least of all because a "true fan" isn't an actual objective thing). I have one because I'm a fan who bought one. If you don't have one, it's because you chose not to buy it, or you could not afford it. It's understandable to be distressed that you couldn't afford it, I grew up poor so you definitely have my sympathies. But, if you could afford it and chose not to buy it, you simply have no right to TRIBBLE and moan, so stop embarrassing yourselves already (unless that's your fetish).
3.) Precedent does not equal guarantee. Previous R&D promo ships such as the Bug Ships and the Annorax have been re-ran/made available again about 12 to 18 months after their debut. There is no guarantee Cryptic will necessarily stick to that pattern. Sometimes they make a Crazy Ivan and take an unexpected turn. Did anyone predict the Infinity Lockbox? That's not necessarily related to this, just an example that Cryptic can do weird things out of nowhere, and depending on what side of the fence you're on, it could make you happy, or very much not so. For the sake of others, I hope they do re-run the TOS ships so others get the chance to enjoy them the way I enjoy the hell out of mine. I have yet to see a T6 TOS D7 or T'Liss flying around, and it actually does make me sad.
I would just say this if you want one: start saving now. If it comes back, it's going to cost you $200 worth of Zen for a guaranteed chance of having it, i.e., not gambling for it. If that's too much in your mind, resign yourself to the fact that you'll never have one, and definitely don't think you're guaranteed to get it by gambling for it. Gamble if you enjoy gambling, but don't cry when you lose, as that's the more likely outcome.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
Who said there was anything wrong with a business making money? Certainly not a businessman like me. No one's buying false dichotomy fallacies, I hope you've got something else to sell.
Go home Druk, you're drunk.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
All those people who are asking...or DEMANDING that the T6 ToS ships be a c-store ship is basically telling cryptic, hey, can you all not make money so we can have our shinies that we have basically said we would buy at any price for less?
I must be missing something here. I support Cryptic making money, in fact I want them to! I'm confused on why adding it to the C-Store would not make them money. I would be the first to buy Zen so I could buy the Connie. Cryptic isn't making any money off of it right now and I'd happily pay 12k in Zen for a 3 pack of the ships.
I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand your logic.
Why do people balk at the price sellers are asking? For those that missed the promo when it was on, the price was not much cheaper. Average selling price during the promo was 900 million ec. Or almost 200 keys. So there is 50% inflation. Not that much. This has always been a thing that will cost more than $150 us. Now more like $250 us with the key sale. You want it. Put down the 250 dollars. Or buy packs until you win the lotto.
It's one thing to buy it from Cryptic and help the game and another to line the pockets of an outside seller get it?
Who said there was anything wrong with a business making money? Certainly not a businessman like me. No one's buying false dichotomy fallacies, I hope you've got something else to sell.
Go home Druk, you're drunk.
Have you been paying attention? There are PLENTY of people who are mad at cryptic for making a buck. All those people who are asking...or DEMANDING that the T6 ToS ships be a c-store ship is basically telling cryptic, hey, can you all not make money so we can have our shinies that we have basically said we would buy at any price for less? Hell, at the time of the event, we even had people going so far as demanding...not asking...that they GIVE these ships away. So yeah...there are definately players abound who does not want cryptic to make money because they have no understanding of how a business works.
Guy it's not Cryptic that folks are pissed at. It is the simple fact that the vast majority of the packs were bought by outside sellers and are being sold at insane prices and the revenue over and above the pack costs are lining the pockets of people and not CRYPTIC. I would gladly dump the 200 plus bucks into Cryptics pockets for a assured purchase then a stupid RNG situation. And yeah I did spend around 200 bucks on the boxes and got zip. The way this was done was a slap in the face considering that KT ships were in a drop box for MONTHS and the Avenger is in the Lobi store. Seriously guy I do want cryptic to thrive and again if the Anniversary ships were offered asa direct buy for 200 bucks from Cryptic or in a drop box for the same length of time and in the numbers that the KT ships were I bet that there would be far less drama and more money in Cryptics coffers then in outside resellers. IMHO special dropbox ships should be account locked from day one and don't give me that tired old line this wouldn't be fair as there are items in drop boxes that are charecter bound the second you open them.
They've sold ships in the c-store for many years and also sold ships via gamble boxes for many years.
It does not take a rocket scientist to work out that maybe they know what they are doing, does it?
In most cases, I would agree, they know what they're doing. And no ... it wouldn't take Rocket Surgeon to figure that out. But in this case, I think they made a goof.
I can see that this is still the heated debate that it was for years.
Who said there was anything wrong with a business making money? Certainly not a businessman like me. No one's buying false dichotomy fallacies, I hope you've got something else to sell.
Go home Druk, you're drunk.
Have you been paying attention? There are PLENTY of people who are mad at cryptic for making a buck. All those people who are asking...or DEMANDING that the T6 ToS ships be a c-store ship is basically telling cryptic, hey, can you all not make money so we can have our shinies that we have basically said we would buy at any price for less? Hell, at the time of the event, we even had people going so far as demanding...not asking...that they GIVE these ships away. So yeah...there are definately players abound who does not want cryptic to make money because they have no understanding of how a business works.
Guy it's not Cryptic that folks are pissed at. It is the simple fact that the vast majority of the packs were bought by outside sellers and are being sold at insane prices and the revenue over and above the pack costs are lining the pockets of people and not CRYPTIC. I would gladly dump the 200 plus bucks into Cryptics pockets for a assured purchase then a stupid RNG situation. And yeah I did spend around 200 bucks on the boxes and got zip. The way this was done was a slap in the face considering that KT ships were in a drop box for MONTHS and the Avenger is in the Lobi store. Seriously guy I do want cryptic to thrive and again if the Anniversary ships were offered asa direct buy for 200 bucks from Cryptic or in a drop box for the same length of time and in the numbers that the KT ships were I bet that there would be far less drama and more money in Cryptics coffers then in outside resellers. IMHO special dropbox ships should be account locked from day one and don't give me that tired old line this wouldn't be fair as there are items in drop boxes that are charecter bound the second you open them.
You do know that those sites are scams right?
JJ Connie > TOS Connie
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
To be honest, I don't care if it's tier 6, as long as it's at least somewhat playable. Heck, I've been flying my tier 1 Constitution through MOST of the game. It's only the enemies with the magic weapons that ignore all defenses (eg. Tractor Beams, Gravity Wells, etc.) that are a real problem. The only thing is that there are so many foes that immediately strip all shields, leaving the tier 1 ship utterly defenseless. The other problem is the lack of firepower. I took on a Keldon in a DSE, and couldn't damage it. AT ALL.
I'd say the minimum tier would be 3. If they made a tier 3 version of the ship, that would be ENOUGH. In reality, though, I think tier 4 is where it should be. All the "Hero" ships of the various shows are at tier 4. The Galaxy, Intrepid, Defiant... it makes sense then for the Constitution to be tier 4, but with some caveats to account for its older status.
In any case, I agree that the way it was introduced was an insult to the fans. The Constitution class, the REAL one, is the single most significant, iconic and popular science fiction space vehicle OF ALL TIME. It's INTEGRAL to Star Trek. It deserves better, and so do the fans.
The real insult, by the way, would have been the insult to the intelligence of all true trekkies if they'd had everyone in the game flying around tos constitutions blowing up borg cubes and stuff.
I get that you want one but don't debase yourself man.
You not getting your own way isn't "an insult" or "a slap in the face."
Not getting my way wasn't the insult. The insult was making it nearly impossible to GET something we asked for, for SO long... and then saying they had given us what we asked for.
I don't see myself being debased, just frustrated and disappointed.
Really, what I'd like to see them do is create a line of TOS ships that are available in the game normally (ie. not available ONLY on the store). I'd do this:
T1 - Antares class (science ship)
T2 - Saladin/Bowie class (escort/scout)
T3 - Ptolemy class (utility ship: Lots of Universal seats, like the Bird of Prey)
T4 - Constitution class (cruiser)
T5 - Federation class (battleship/carrier)
Each ship would be somewhat weaker than the equivalent "modern" ship. For instance, the Antares class would have attributes (hull, shields) somewhat lower than the Miranda, fewer weapons, etc.
I think I'll work up some designs for the fun of it, post them later.
Pretty much, saying they gave us what we wanted for so long...in a way that only a TINY few were able to get...is not what I call a favor. It's kinda like those S&M videos where the gimp gets whipped and says, "THANK YOU, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!" as I view those who support the idea of making RD promo/RND idea for the T6 tos ships as a good thing.
As I said, I was LUCKY to have a friend who was able to get a few of them (3 from 5 of the RD packs) and she gave 2 of the 3 to me and another friend....not everyone has friends like that. Also, I rarely see the TOS t6 ships in game...just one or two now and again.....YET I see TONS of comic book guy wannabes in game advertising....to the point of spamming, now....the ship packs....demanding a billion and a half EC's AND lockbox keys....and constantly advertising, yet from the low numbers of these ships I see in game, they don't appear to be anyone giving in to the comic book guy wannabes crazy, border line extortion prices.
Hell, just a TOS SKIN for a T6 ship of equal size would have been fine by me, but I guess that's asking too much, huh?
Hell, The Star Trek: Alien Domain (I think that was the name of it) has one of it's most powerful ships being a Mirror Universe Constitution Class, seen it on Youtube, and that thing was vicious.
I would suggest not buying any zen if you don't like Cryptic's business practices. I am all for a company making money, but as a consumer, I avoid buying overpriced goods or poor services. So keep your money and let them keep their promo boxes.
I would suggest not buying any zen if you don't like Cryptic's business practices. I am all for a company making money, but as a consumer, I avoid buying overpriced goods or poor services. So keep your money and let them keep their promo boxes.
EXACTLY
I don't mind anyone making some $$$, but it's what they DO to make that $$$ is where I get verbal.
A guy in TTC has been trying to trade 250 keys for one but hasnt found a seller
I guess there isn't anyone who still has an unopened box who is willing to sell - there can't be that many left in circulation, can there?
More like the Comic Book Guy Wannabes are just too greedy for their own good...I see PLENTY of those jerks trying to sell their ship packs, but no one is biting....which is not a big surprise to me in the least.
To be honest, I don't care if it's tier 6, as long as it's at least somewhat playable. Heck, I've been flying my tier 1 Constitution through MOST of the game. It's only the enemies with the magic weapons that ignore all defenses (eg. Tractor Beams, Gravity Wells, etc.) that are a real problem. The only thing is that there are so many foes that immediately strip all shields, leaving the tier 1 ship utterly defenseless. The other problem is the lack of firepower. I took on a Keldon in a DSE, and couldn't damage it. AT ALL.
I'd say the minimum tier would be 3. If they made a tier 3 version of the ship, that would be ENOUGH. In reality, though, I think tier 4 is where it should be. All the "Hero" ships of the various shows are at tier 4. The Galaxy, Intrepid, Defiant... it makes sense then for the Constitution to be tier 4, but with some caveats to account for its older status.
In any case, I agree that the way it was introduced was an insult to the fans. The Constitution class, the REAL one, is the single most significant, iconic and popular science fiction space vehicle OF ALL TIME. It's INTEGRAL to Star Trek. It deserves better, and so do the fans.
The real insult, by the way, would have been the insult to the intelligence of all true trekkies if they'd had everyone in the game flying around tos constitutions blowing up borg cubes and stuff.
I get that you want one but don't debase yourself man.
You not getting your own way isn't "an insult" or "a slap in the face."
Not getting my way wasn't the insult. The insult was making it nearly impossible to GET something we asked for, for SO long... and then saying they had given us what we asked for.
I don't see myself being debased, just frustrated and disappointed.
Really, what I'd like to see them do is create a line of TOS ships that are available in the game normally (ie. not available ONLY on the store). I'd do this:
T1 - Antares class (science ship)
T2 - Saladin/Bowie class (escort/scout)
T3 - Ptolemy class (utility ship: Lots of Universal seats, like the Bird of Prey)
T4 - Constitution class (cruiser)
T5 - Federation class (battleship/carrier)
Each ship would be somewhat weaker than the equivalent "modern" ship. For instance, the Antares class would have attributes (hull, shields) somewhat lower than the Miranda, fewer weapons, etc.
I think I'll work up some designs for the fun of it, post them later.
Pretty much, saying they gave us what we wanted for so long...in a way that only a TINY few were able to get...is not what I call a favor. It's kinda like those S&M videos where the gimp gets whipped and says, "THANK YOU, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!" as I view those who support the idea of making RD promo/RND idea for the T6 tos ships as a good thing.
As I said, I was LUCKY to have a friend who was able to get a few of them (3 from 5 of the RD packs) and she gave 2 of the 3 to me and another friend....not everyone has friends like that. Also, I rarely see the TOS t6 ships in game...just one or two now and again.....YET I see TONS of comic book guy wannabes in game advertising....to the point of spamming, now....the ship packs....demanding a billion and a half EC's AND lockbox keys....and constantly advertising, yet from the low numbers of these ships I see in game, they don't appear to be anyone giving in to the comic book guy wannabes crazy, border line extortion prices.
Hell, just a TOS SKIN for a T6 ship of equal size would have been fine by me, but I guess that's asking too much, huh?
Hell, The Star Trek: Alien Domain (I think that was the name of it) has one of it's most powerful ships being a Mirror Universe Constitution Class, seen it on Youtube, and that thing was vicious.
Thank you, I like cookies. Oatmeal raisin, please...
Organic and homemade are the cookies I give, and made with love, yo!
Star Trek Online has been rocgnized time and again as having one of the most if not the most generous F2P models in the entire market. The downside is that the only way to make enough to profit is to use gambling methods. Time tested, simple and effective.
Without lockboxes and Promotion packs the game would no longer exist.
If you want the connie so bad there are other games/apps you can play where it is free or atleast a lot cheaper. Stop complaining. EVERYTHING you do in life is by your own choice.
Star Trek Online has been rocgnized time and again as having one of the most if not the most generous F2P models in the entire market. The downside is that the only way to make enough to profit is to use gambling methods. Time tested, simple and effective.
Without lockboxes and Promotion packs the game would no longer exist.
^^ Irrefutable logic. Annoying, but true. 'Nuf said.
Now for something completely different: that image (and your sig) have a real, vintage-style Lara Croft feel to it. I like it.
Tankies ^_^ V ~curtsey~
I do use 'vintage' figures...mainly Aiko3 and Hiro3 for humanoids, so you are right in that sense.
If you ever want one as well, I can make one for your character.
The real insult, by the way, would have been the insult to the intelligence of all true trekkies if they'd had everyone in the game flying around tos constitutions blowing up borg cubes and stuff.
I get that you want one but don't debase yourself man.
You not getting your own way isn't "an insult" or "a slap in the face."
is that because you feel Star Trek in general is 'realistic'? LOL!
Star Trek is entertainment. But even IF you want to argue the 'realism/canon' aspect: Remember that in the STO game fiction the T6 Connie is not from the 23rd century. It's a 29th century ship made to APPEAR as if it's a 23c Constitution class. And IMO it's no more ridiculous then having a Galaxy Class solo a Borg Cube (which happens a lot in STO.)
Having them is no more of an insult then having an in universe fiction 50+ or more year old design (like the Galaxy Class, etc.) STILL be a top of the line/front line ship in 2410.
The 'realism/canon' argument became moot in STO years ago.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
"I want a free or cheap super crazy canon-wrecking endgame tos connie" is just wanting your own way.
How is it "canon-wrecking" exactly? Did we suddenly forget how to read blueprints and use those to build something with modern day materials with just the appearance of how something used to look? People make replica items, trick out older cars with fixed up engines, and even just outright rebuild things to be better than they were originally and still look like they did originally but "shinier". In what way is using an existing skin "canon-wrecking" beyond a subset of people getting their undergarments in a twist because "they're using something that looks OLD. NO!"
"I want a free or cheap super crazy canon-wrecking endgame tos connie" is just wanting your own way.
How is it "canon-wrecking" exactly? Did we suddenly forget how to read blueprints and use those to build something with modern day materials with just the appearance of how something used to look? People make replica items, trick out older cars with fixed up engines, and even just outright rebuild things to be better than they were originally and still look like they did originally but "shinier". In what way is using an existing skin "canon-wrecking" beyond a subset of people getting their undergarments in a twist because "they're using something that looks OLD. NO!"
To me, those screaming "it wrecks cannon!" are just sad neck beards like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.
Hell, we could say Billie Dee Williams blowing up a giant space station, a brand new one at that, in a decades old rust bucket is to the same degree, yo.
Comments
1.) The TOS Connie was always going to be a cash grab, if you thought otherwise, you were fooling yourself. Arguably the most famous spacecraft in science fiction, the TOS Constitution Class would be the greatest guaranteed cash cow Cryptic could have ever hope to have. Seriously, how could you ever have deluded yourself that they would put it in the C-Store when they have Asian MMO gambling boxes in this game?
2.) You don't deserve one just because you were a "true fan" (not least of all because a "true fan" isn't an actual objective thing). I have one because I'm a fan who bought one. If you don't have one, it's because you chose not to buy it, or you could not afford it. It's understandable to be distressed that you couldn't afford it, I grew up poor so you definitely have my sympathies. But, if you could afford it and chose not to buy it, you simply have no right to TRIBBLE and moan, so stop embarrassing yourselves already (unless that's your fetish).
3.) Precedent does not equal guarantee. Previous R&D promo ships such as the Bug Ships and the Annorax have been re-ran/made available again about 12 to 18 months after their debut. There is no guarantee Cryptic will necessarily stick to that pattern. Sometimes they make a Crazy Ivan and take an unexpected turn. Did anyone predict the Infinity Lockbox? That's not necessarily related to this, just an example that Cryptic can do weird things out of nowhere, and depending on what side of the fence you're on, it could make you happy, or very much not so. For the sake of others, I hope they do re-run the TOS ships so others get the chance to enjoy them the way I enjoy the hell out of mine. I have yet to see a T6 TOS D7 or T'Liss flying around, and it actually does make me sad.
I would just say this if you want one: start saving now. If it comes back, it's going to cost you $200 worth of Zen for a guaranteed chance of having it, i.e., not gambling for it. If that's too much in your mind, resign yourself to the fact that you'll never have one, and definitely don't think you're guaranteed to get it by gambling for it. Gamble if you enjoy gambling, but don't cry when you lose, as that's the more likely outcome.
Go home Druk, you're drunk.
I must be missing something here. I support Cryptic making money, in fact I want them to! I'm confused on why adding it to the C-Store would not make them money. I would be the first to buy Zen so I could buy the Connie. Cryptic isn't making any money off of it right now and I'd happily pay 12k in Zen for a 3 pack of the ships.
I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand your logic.
Join Date: Aug 14th 2008
It's one thing to buy it from Cryptic and help the game and another to line the pockets of an outside seller get it?
Guy it's not Cryptic that folks are pissed at. It is the simple fact that the vast majority of the packs were bought by outside sellers and are being sold at insane prices and the revenue over and above the pack costs are lining the pockets of people and not CRYPTIC. I would gladly dump the 200 plus bucks into Cryptics pockets for a assured purchase then a stupid RNG situation. And yeah I did spend around 200 bucks on the boxes and got zip. The way this was done was a slap in the face considering that KT ships were in a drop box for MONTHS and the Avenger is in the Lobi store. Seriously guy I do want cryptic to thrive and again if the Anniversary ships were offered asa direct buy for 200 bucks from Cryptic or in a drop box for the same length of time and in the numbers that the KT ships were I bet that there would be far less drama and more money in Cryptics coffers then in outside resellers. IMHO special dropbox ships should be account locked from day one and don't give me that tired old line this wouldn't be fair as there are items in drop boxes that are charecter bound the second you open them.
In most cases, I would agree, they know what they're doing. And no ... it wouldn't take Rocket Surgeon to figure that out. But in this case, I think they made a goof.
I can see that this is still the heated debate that it was for years.
Join Date: Aug 14th 2008
You do know that those sites are scams right?
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
Pretty much, saying they gave us what we wanted for so long...in a way that only a TINY few were able to get...is not what I call a favor. It's kinda like those S&M videos where the gimp gets whipped and says, "THANK YOU, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!" as I view those who support the idea of making RD promo/RND idea for the T6 tos ships as a good thing.
As I said, I was LUCKY to have a friend who was able to get a few of them (3 from 5 of the RD packs) and she gave 2 of the 3 to me and another friend....not everyone has friends like that. Also, I rarely see the TOS t6 ships in game...just one or two now and again.....YET I see TONS of comic book guy wannabes in game advertising....to the point of spamming, now....the ship packs....demanding a billion and a half EC's AND lockbox keys....and constantly advertising, yet from the low numbers of these ships I see in game, they don't appear to be anyone giving in to the comic book guy wannabes crazy, border line extortion prices.
Hell, just a TOS SKIN for a T6 ship of equal size would have been fine by me, but I guess that's asking too much, huh?
Hell, The Star Trek: Alien Domain (I think that was the name of it) has one of it's most powerful ships being a Mirror Universe Constitution Class, seen it on Youtube, and that thing was vicious.
EXACTLY
I don't mind anyone making some $$$, but it's what they DO to make that $$$ is where I get verbal.
Organic and homemade are the cookies I give, and made with love, yo!
Now for something completely different: that image (and your sig) have a real, vintage-style Lara Croft feel to it. I like it.
Without lockboxes and Promotion packs the game would no longer exist.
If you want the connie so bad there are other games/apps you can play where it is free or atleast a lot cheaper. Stop complaining. EVERYTHING you do in life is by your own choice.
^^ Irrefutable logic. Annoying, but true. 'Nuf said.
Tankies ^_^ V ~curtsey~
I do use 'vintage' figures...mainly Aiko3 and Hiro3 for humanoids, so you are right in that sense.
If you ever want one as well, I can make one for your character.
is that because you feel Star Trek in general is 'realistic'? LOL!
Star Trek is entertainment. But even IF you want to argue the 'realism/canon' aspect: Remember that in the STO game fiction the T6 Connie is not from the 23rd century. It's a 29th century ship made to APPEAR as if it's a 23c Constitution class. And IMO it's no more ridiculous then having a Galaxy Class solo a Borg Cube (which happens a lot in STO.)
Having them is no more of an insult then having an in universe fiction 50+ or more year old design (like the Galaxy Class, etc.) STILL be a top of the line/front line ship in 2410.
The 'realism/canon' argument became moot in STO years ago.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
How is it "canon-wrecking" exactly? Did we suddenly forget how to read blueprints and use those to build something with modern day materials with just the appearance of how something used to look? People make replica items, trick out older cars with fixed up engines, and even just outright rebuild things to be better than they were originally and still look like they did originally but "shinier". In what way is using an existing skin "canon-wrecking" beyond a subset of people getting their undergarments in a twist because "they're using something that looks OLD. NO!"
To me, those screaming "it wrecks cannon!" are just sad neck beards like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.
Hell, we could say Billie Dee Williams blowing up a giant space station, a brand new one at that, in a decades old rust bucket is to the same degree, yo.