And if my memory is certain... let me see... Yeah, in DS9: "Soldiers of the Empire", part of the fact that the crew of the Rotarran had different uniforms was to enhance that they were different characters. Same as why they had different hair colors, hair cuts, etc....
So if someone's B'Ellera or female captain wants to wear a skirt, I don't see a problem. These aren't cookie-cutter soldiers, these are warriors each with their own family legacy, their own saga of glory and honor and their own way of showing their pride in being warriors. If one of them, female or no, thinks that entering battle with little protection as a way of showing their opponents that they know no fear is the way to go, Kahless honor them.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
A kilt (mini or otherwise) for my male Klingon would be well received of you would Cryptic.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
As far as i am concerned, i think Klingons should all wear the same standard battle armor, no matter the gender.
I disagree 100%. "Space Barbie is the real endgame."
My captain and crew have a theme. One Federation captain is a Mirror Universe defector so he and his crew wear Enterprise era Mirror uniforms, complete with daggers. My TOS captain and crew wear TOS uniforms and use TOS weapons, and so on.
Saying "All Federation crew must should wear standard 25th century Federation uniforms" limits creativity and our choice to give our crew a different backstory from the vanilla one.
Not at all, my good sir, with my Starfleet crews, they're all pretty much just standard crews, so they just wear the Odyssey uniform, but with Cara's crew of 27, there are still variations... A while ago, I found pictures online giving the color palette values for various Starfleet uniforms. While the Tactical Uniform is no longer showing up on the selection menu, I do have the tactical specialists of the away team clad in a Tactical Uniform color-coded variant of the Odyssey. I have NCOs whos uniforms are again, Odyssey as the base, but then in NCO colors, and the same with cadets, in so much as they are wearing what I'm considering a 'spacers' uniform, rather than a ground-based students' uniform, but they are still wearing Academy Colors to show they are cadets (I also did an Acting Ensign, but she proved so well on away teams, I felt she deserved a field commission )
(Well, I guess. I'm not sure they ever conquered anything but part of England.)
At least they still remember their names and people still identify themselves as scottish. How many Europeans would call themselves Saxon, Alemani, Ubii or Hermunduri?
To extrapolate the OP's statement that he thinks a Klingon female warrior in a skirt is wrong, I propose that we also lobby Cryptic to remove the ability for Ferengi females to wear clothing of any description. Why? As per canon, only those females who were considered mentally defective or rebellious dared to wear clothing and despite the changes made after Quark's mother dared prove the abilities of Ferengi females in business, many Ferengi males simply would not accept such a radical concept. Therefore if a Klingon female warrior in a skirt is wrong, a fully clothed Ferengi female is also wrong.
However, back in the real world .... OP whilst I respect that you have your own opinion and have communicated this, other players also have their opinions and when it differs from your own you should not continually repeat that you do not think it should be. Some posters have tried to explain where the idea would arise by drawing a comparison to known facts from our own history, which after all is mostly where writers/creators of fictional universes get their ideas. As the Klingon empire is certainly based upon a feudal society the origins for the disputed skirt are clear. The "it was never seen on screen" argument fails because what has been seen on screen is subject to the political/religious/censorship restrictions which are required to be negotiated to obtain a certain airtime slot, doubtless there were many different visions which Gene Roddenberry and the various writers etc had to leave out as a consequence. Another consideration is that perhaps the disputed female Klingon warrior in a skirt simply ended up on the cutting room floor or the budget for a particular episode/film simply re-used a previous costume rather than spending money on the skirt shown on a storyboard somewhere.
Either way, everyone is entitled to their opinion or vision of what a particular character would wear and no single party has the right to say the others are wrong.
Problem with you folks seems to be that you take this debate quite personally and argue about creativity and such but the thing is, i want to talk about Klingon uniform code for battle and how a Klingon female warrior is firts depicted on a player when he or she creates first Klingon female warrior.
Uniform code has no room for creativity, anyone who has served in some sort of authority should know this and that uniform code is not for being interesting but being practical and perphaps in some situations, represent authority and formality.
On Earth, in the 20th - early 21st century.
KDF is not an Earth military, and many units of it seem to be private house armies more like older Earth feudal armies.
As far as i am concerned, i think Klingons should all wear the same standard battle armor, no matter the gender.
I disagree 100%. "Space Barbie is the real endgame."
My captain and crew have a theme. One Federation captain is a Mirror Universe defector so he and his crew wear Enterprise era Mirror uniforms, complete with daggers. My TOS captain and crew wear TOS uniforms and use TOS weapons, and so on.
Saying "All Federation crew must should wear standard 25th century Federation uniforms" limits creativity and our choice to give our crew a different backstory from the vanilla one.
Read his whole post, man. He isn't talking about restricting players, he's talking about the DEFAULT uniform. The thing most random NPCs wear, that it shows you by default on the character creator.
To extrapolate the OP's statement that he thinks a Klingon female warrior in a skirt is wrong, I propose that we also lobby Cryptic to remove the ability for Ferengi females to wear clothing of any description. Why? As per canon, only those females who were considered mentally defective or rebellious dared to wear clothing and despite the changes made after Quark's mother dared prove the abilities of Ferengi females in business, many Ferengi males simply would not accept such a radical concept. Therefore if a Klingon female warrior in a skirt is wrong, a fully clothed Ferengi female is also wrong.
However, back in the real world .... OP whilst I respect that you have your own opinion and have communicated this, other players also have their opinions and when it differs from your own you should not continually repeat that you do not think it should be. Some posters have tried to explain where the idea would arise by drawing a comparison to known facts from our own history, which after all is mostly where writers/creators of fictional universes get their ideas. As the Klingon empire is certainly based upon a feudal society the origins for the disputed skirt are clear. The "it was never seen on screen" argument fails because what has been seen on screen is subject to the political/religious/censorship restrictions which are required to be negotiated to obtain a certain airtime slot, doubtless there were many different visions which Gene Roddenberry and the various writers etc had to leave out as a consequence. Another consideration is that perhaps the disputed female Klingon warrior in a skirt simply ended up on the cutting room floor or the budget for a particular episode/film simply re-used a previous costume rather than spending money on the skirt shown on a storyboard somewhere.
Either way, everyone is entitled to their opinion or vision of what a particular character would wear and no single party has the right to say the others are wrong.
Drawing a female Ferengi to this is good point, thanks of that, i wonder if clothed female is still radical ablong Ferengi society...
Would also be if we had marriages with Betazzoind, traditional naked version of everyone there.
I would not be opposed to such thing at all as it seems to be the tradition among their people.
Anywa, i enjoy reading posts made like this, i hope to see more such and i admit, i have a tendency to repeat myself, apologies.
As far as i am concerned, i think Klingons should all wear the same standard battle armor, no matter the gender.
I disagree 100%. "Space Barbie is the real endgame."
My captain and crew have a theme. One Federation captain is a Mirror Universe defector so he and his crew wear Enterprise era Mirror uniforms, complete with daggers. My TOS captain and crew wear TOS uniforms and use TOS weapons, and so on.
Saying "All Federation crew must should wear standard 25th century Federation uniforms" limits creativity and our choice to give our crew a different backstory from the vanilla one.
Read his whole post, man. He isn't talking about restricting players, he's talking about the DEFAULT uniform. The thing most random NPCs wear, that it shows you by default on the character creator.
Indeed, i do not have anything against creativity and i do like to see many creations people do with their characters and away teams.
Perphaps we should talk about the practicality and if the skirt used in Klingon default uniform is feasible for battle situation instead?
Perphaps we should also leave the "sexy" part out of question here as warrior does not nee to be sexy in battle, only effective.
Hmm, thinking of shows, i do think that Riker manifested a skirt wearing Klingon for Worf during the episode where he was turned Q... Was kinda good looking but i dont think she was in battle armor for the battle i talk about
Captain Hunt, at your service!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,672Community Moderator
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Problem with you folks seems to be that you take this debate quite personally and argue about creativity and such but the thing is, i want to talk about Klingon uniform code for battle and how a Klingon female warrior is firts depicted on a player when he or she creates first Klingon female warrior.
Uniform code has no room for creativity, anyone who has served in some sort of authority should know this and that uniform code is not for being interesting but being practical and perphaps in some situations, represent authority and formality.
On Earth, in the 20th - early 21st century.
KDF is not an Earth military, and many units of it seem to be private house armies more like older Earth feudal armies.
My troops are too busy marauding to be worrying about dress code, and besides you get the other sides blood all over you anyway ...
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Uniform code has no room for creativity, anyone who has served in some sort of authority should know this and that uniform code is not for being interesting but being practical and perphaps in some situations, represent authority and formality.
Well, the 22C Klingon fleet didn't seem to have much in the way of uniform; perhaps much like the 18th century Royal Navy, where only officers had a set uniform. Plus, as Klaa's crew in STV showed, or Martok's, even with later eras there's substantial variation.
I strongly think that female Klingon warriuor would never wear such uniform in a battle nor would a TV show depict her as we see a standard Klingon uniform in the character creation. Why the need to make Klingon warriors as space barbies? What next, a female Jem'hadar with mini skirt and top??
See above; there is at least one example from a TV show of a Klingon thus dressed. That makes it more canon than a lot of STO uniforms...
Maybe the KDF toons wear skirts to show off their superfly legs in order to distract the enemy? Make it easier to kill them when they are distracted, no?
Do you know why soldiers usually wear pants on the battlefield on these modern days? One thing is, that they can now easily be made, unlike in ancient times when a loincloth of sorts was the cheapest and easiest, also we do not use scale mail skirts to protect our legs these days either since there are no close quarter combat as such plus people have realised that the heavy metal platin takes more off from mobility that it gives in protection. Furthermore, even the simpliest pants protect greatly from all the small sharp objects that can wound your legs on the grounds.
I just dont see any reason why one would consider these skirts as a practical wear for battle.
Variation seems to be a practive klingons do with their clothing, but variety does not mean that warrior would impair his functionality in battle. Surely bleeding dry because you wore a skirt and cut your leg artery to sharp rock would not be good death, right? At least with the traditional leather pants, you would still be fighting for honor of your house.
And just to prove that a skirt isn't needed to show off a superfly bod, here's Cara, helpfully modelling her field uniform... Look but don't touch, folks, the Jem'Hadar takes her safety very seriously...
She looks quite good, perphaps i shall take few shots of my officers tomorrow as well to show my field wear and more relaxed skirt version for normal everyday life as a starship captain.
So i noticed that Klingon default female armor has skirt now. Wwhat is this? Warriors wearing skirts??
(Been away for quite some time so this is new to me)
EDIT: To clarify this, i want to say that i dont have anything against people using miniskirts if they so choose nor that should a Klingon have dress oprions or not,
I would just like to discuss about the image given of traditional Klingon warrior, watching TV shows, i have never seen Klingon females using a dress in battle conditions, i have seen Klingons as people who choose the most practical standard issue uniform thatwe have seen so many times.
Klingons are klingons and should be wieved on terms that have been set through their lore and fantasy, not from real wortld comparisons but how Klingons are as warriors in battle, not in anywhere else as the default option on character creation is a warrior wwearing uniform.
As far as i am concerned, i think Klingons should all wear the same standard battle armor, no matter the gender. Youi are free to voice your own opinions but lets just stay as Klingons, no real world comparisons as they are fictional character with lore and culture of their own and any opinions should be drawn from that culture and lore.
Thoughts?
ASFIK there has always been a skirt option for Klingons. And as far as warrior cultures wearing skirts ever hear of the Roman Legion? They were hands down the bad a$$ warriors of thier day. It was more politics and insane leaders combined with religous zealots that brought the Roman empire down not how the troops were or waht thye wore. Then there are the Kelts and other warriors both male and female who wore skirts. Not a big deal as far as being bad a$$. And the Klingon Culture to be blunt is very much like my family history who had vikings in the famly. The whole bravado of who is strongest in hand to hand challenges draws very heavily on Norse culture. There is one test called Glima and Brokatrok Glima which are more "civilized" then the combat version called Lausatok. So fictional or not the culture draws on REAL history. Plus I guess you missed a hell of a lot of TNG.
Problem with you folks seems to be that you take this debate quite personally and argue about creativity and such but the thing is, i want to talk about Klingon uniform code for battle and how a Klingon female warrior is firts depicted on a player when he or she creates first Klingon female warrior.
Uniform code has no room for creativity, anyone who has served in some sort of authority should know this and that uniform code is not for being interesting but being practical and perphaps in some situations, represent authority and formality.
As i said, i care not, what you wish your character to look like, it is none of my business, use your own creativity and backstories when you create your characters but i think, a Klingon warrior should be depicted as a traditional Klingon warrior with standard uniform for battle as that is what a warrior lives for. I strongly think that female Klingon warriuor would never wear such uniform in a battle nor would a TV show depict her as we see a standard Klingon uniform in the character creation. Why the need to make Klingon warriors as space barbies? What next, a female Jem'hadar with mini skirt and top??
Guy some of what you say is true about uniforms BUT there is a certian amount of leeway with some items. Unit badges and so on that are optional. I know my undress blues jacket had my very large ships emblum on it and that was defintely an personel choice and allowed under regulations at the time.
She looks quite good, perphaps i shall take few shots of my officers tomorrow as well to show my field wear and more relaxed skirt version for normal everyday life as a starship captain.
Thanks, it's based on the tactical uniforms, but with vice admiral's black shoulders, silver stripe and belt buckle colors. I have another couple of BOFFs in the same tactical uniform, some NCOs, and cadets...
Skipped most of the posts but a question for you guys... did any of you notice that the skirts the Duras sisters wore were at least below the knee if not to the ankles / floor?
Comments
So if someone's B'Ellera or female captain wants to wear a skirt, I don't see a problem. These aren't cookie-cutter soldiers, these are warriors each with their own family legacy, their own saga of glory and honor and their own way of showing their pride in being warriors. If one of them, female or no, thinks that entering battle with little protection as a way of showing their opponents that they know no fear is the way to go, Kahless honor them.
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
You called me ?
However, back in the real world .... OP whilst I respect that you have your own opinion and have communicated this, other players also have their opinions and when it differs from your own you should not continually repeat that you do not think it should be. Some posters have tried to explain where the idea would arise by drawing a comparison to known facts from our own history, which after all is mostly where writers/creators of fictional universes get their ideas. As the Klingon empire is certainly based upon a feudal society the origins for the disputed skirt are clear. The "it was never seen on screen" argument fails because what has been seen on screen is subject to the political/religious/censorship restrictions which are required to be negotiated to obtain a certain airtime slot, doubtless there were many different visions which Gene Roddenberry and the various writers etc had to leave out as a consequence. Another consideration is that perhaps the disputed female Klingon warrior in a skirt simply ended up on the cutting room floor or the budget for a particular episode/film simply re-used a previous costume rather than spending money on the skirt shown on a storyboard somewhere.
Either way, everyone is entitled to their opinion or vision of what a particular character would wear and no single party has the right to say the others are wrong.
On Earth, in the 20th - early 21st century.
KDF is not an Earth military, and many units of it seem to be private house armies more like older Earth feudal armies.
Read his whole post, man. He isn't talking about restricting players, he's talking about the DEFAULT uniform. The thing most random NPCs wear, that it shows you by default on the character creator.
It's cause y'all can't handle all this sexiness
Drawing a female Ferengi to this is good point, thanks of that, i wonder if clothed female is still radical ablong Ferengi society...
Would also be if we had marriages with Betazzoind, traditional naked version of everyone there.
I would not be opposed to such thing at all as it seems to be the tradition among their people.
Anywa, i enjoy reading posts made like this, i hope to see more such and i admit, i have a tendency to repeat myself, apologies.
Indeed, i do not have anything against creativity and i do like to see many creations people do with their characters and away teams.
Perphaps we should talk about the practicality and if the skirt used in Klingon default uniform is feasible for battle situation instead?
Perphaps we should also leave the "sexy" part out of question here as warrior does not nee to be sexy in battle, only effective.
Hmm, thinking of shows, i do think that Riker manifested a skirt wearing Klingon for Worf during the episode where he was turned Q... Was kinda good looking but i dont think she was in battle armor for the battle i talk about
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
lol someone beat me to it!
Also...
Still provides some protection while maximizing mobility if done right. Also... badass can still look good.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
My troops are too busy marauding to be worrying about dress code, and besides you get the other sides blood all over you anyway ...
Qapla!
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Rowdy Roddy Piper had good tastes when it comes to his minskirts.
Well, the 22C Klingon fleet didn't seem to have much in the way of uniform; perhaps much like the 18th century Royal Navy, where only officers had a set uniform. Plus, as Klaa's crew in STV showed, or Martok's, even with later eras there's substantial variation.
See above; there is at least one example from a TV show of a Klingon thus dressed. That makes it more canon than a lot of STO uniforms...
Copy that!
Qapla!
I just dont see any reason why one would consider these skirts as a practical wear for battle.
Variation seems to be a practive klingons do with their clothing, but variety does not mean that warrior would impair his functionality in battle. Surely bleeding dry because you wore a skirt and cut your leg artery to sharp rock would not be good death, right? At least with the traditional leather pants, you would still be fighting for honor of your house.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ASFIK there has always been a skirt option for Klingons. And as far as warrior cultures wearing skirts ever hear of the Roman Legion? They were hands down the bad a$$ warriors of thier day. It was more politics and insane leaders combined with religous zealots that brought the Roman empire down not how the troops were or waht thye wore. Then there are the Kelts and other warriors both male and female who wore skirts. Not a big deal as far as being bad a$$. And the Klingon Culture to be blunt is very much like my family history who had vikings in the famly. The whole bravado of who is strongest in hand to hand challenges draws very heavily on Norse culture. There is one test called Glima and Brokatrok Glima which are more "civilized" then the combat version called Lausatok. So fictional or not the culture draws on REAL history. Plus I guess you missed a hell of a lot of TNG.
Guy some of what you say is true about uniforms BUT there is a certian amount of leeway with some items. Unit badges and so on that are optional. I know my undress blues jacket had my very large ships emblum on it and that was defintely an personel choice and allowed under regulations at the time.
Would definitely be good to see your officers too
So where are those skirts for female klingons?