You know what I also find annoying about Cryptic? The circular reasoning, they don't make more KDF exclusive, or Romulan for that matter, content because supposedly not enough people play it.
But these factions, mostly KDF, are not played as much as Feds -because- there's not nearly enough content compared to the Federation.
There is never a reason to intentionally create product the majority of your customers are forbidden from buying.
True.
Still, there's an argument to be had for the fact that if you've cornered one market you need to expand out into different ones in order to continue to grow your business. However, though I recognize that they have heavily cornered and incentivized the Fed market, there's still always another ship that they could sell (or revamp and sell again) and always more costumes on offer, simply because there's more there for Feds in the source material.
I actually agree that we should have had three perspectives to each of the missions in the tos era missions, with maybe one of two missions that were faction specific. It would have been good use of an existing asset to re-use it three times, while also giving access to some tos era non-fed ships also. Though this is still possible to be done in a bit of a update over the course of the season/expansion opening up the tos faction to all three main-factions. This would also spread out the cost, work load, and life of the content too, since if you added a bit of updates to the mission each time it would make replaying the missions more appealing. To me it should have be done that you got the tos era fed first, then about halfway thru the expansion/season you get the Kdf or romulan tos faction release of their point of view of the era's missions an a update to the missions for the fed side, while near the end of the season/expansion you get the release of the final faction's perspective of the missions an a final update of them for the prior released tos factions. Add in that if you spread them out you could have the fed tos era ships released first like now, than each additional pack of tos era ships for the other factions spread out so as to not conflict with the sale of each.
If everyone would be willing to give up 6 months (at the very least) worth of updates to the game to allow for that to happen, then sure, sounds great!
While it would be awesome if that could happen, we'll probably never see anything like it in the existing storylines. I do wish that they'd start doing that moving forward though, even if it took a bit more time to release content, because it would really make the storylines much more appealing across the game. But I highly doubt that will happen either.
True, it would be great, and honestly might bring more people to the factions outside of fed. Well I can agree that it would be about six months of work total for both a tos era kdf an rom perspective done, as the missions an content is already in game done with just needing some tweaks, though the harder part is making a tos era hub for each (tos era Romulus and Qo'noS basically.). But yeah will it happen not sure, most likely not, but bringing it up an if players show an interest might showcase a change in mentality.
It would be nice to see each of the three factions get a bit more distinction in their play-style, and feel than they currently have. Not saying making cloaking/battle-cloaking exclusive again, but more faction linked methods of how they use cloaking to be more appropriate, as a Romulan used their cloak quite differently than a Klingon did. Things like Romulans might gain a stacking buff while their cloaked, while Klingons might might get more of a consolidation type effect that causes their weapons to deliver their damage in a much more compact form. It would also be nice to see some faction specific abilities that could draw some players over too,
Upon further thinking, it dawned on me that one thing "nice" would be different answers to the same questions. What I mean is this : During the "end Game" Episodes my KDF characters had IDENTICAL choices to respond with; I don't mind running the same missions...it just felt "wrong" giving the same answers my Fed (and Fed ally Rommies) gave. I'm speaking, of course, about the clicked on "chat"; somehow having the EXACT same 3 choices for a non Fed Klingon seemed, well, off. I know it'd be a bit more work but it just seems like it could be done with a little effort and it would certainly add to the "flavor".
As for what Kelshando said above...I'm kind of hoping they just admit "defeat" and allow KDF folks to join Fed Fleets (*IF* the player so chooses). At least then those folks in smaller Fleets who can't seem to "get anywhere" have a chance to do so. I only say this because there seems to be less talk/invites re Fleets on KDF side of things when I'm playing STO. /shrug
Aside from the same choices at the end of the episodes, there is two major game mechanic that stands in the way of this idea. Reputation, ya you can go threw it quickly with a token, but it does not give the gear you already got on another toon. Essentially it is not account wide. The other thing is ships. Allot of people have put money into one factions set of ships mostly anyways. If they did do an event like the op is suggesting, I would allow people to trade in all current ships for there zen cost, and then spend it on the KDF only ships. I dont see that happening for the simple reason of profit. Yea those are the two things right now I believe are stopping people from giving the kdf a real go.
The best incentive to play KDF: reduce the cooldown on turning in contraband. 20 hours really?
Eight or twelve hours should do the trick.
Given that the infamous 16% statistic comes from a time it was 4 hours, I don't think so.
Not that a bunch of farmer toons running doff assignments for contraband is any incentive to develop the faction, either. No matter how many there are.
Using KDF as contraband farm is the first step to playing a KDF character.
Without the contraband farming the entry of new KDF players will be lower still.
Which makes me wonder what percentage of characters in the game are nothing but farming alts. this might explain the discrepancy between ship sales and character count.
It also casts a pall on the very premise of incentivizing KDF play. If a player wants to make a character for farming, currently the best option is KDF/Rom. Anything done to "incentivize" play of x over y incentivizes farming too.
Unfortunately I think the KDF is as active as its going to get. The games been around 6 years, lifers/long time players all have fleshed out characters and unless there is a recruitment event like Delta or AOY targeted for KDF. I can't see them rushing to make a KDF toon. Even if storyline content was added to the KDF all the way to level 50 I still think the KDF are beyond rescue.
Aside from the same choices at the end of the episodes, there is two major game mechanic that stands in the way of this idea. Reputation, ya you can go threw it quickly with a token, but it does not give the gear you already got on another toon. Essentially it is not account wide. The other thing is ships. Allot of people have put money into one factions set of ships mostly anyways. If they did do an event like the op is suggesting, I would allow people to trade in all current ships for there zen cost, and then spend it on the KDF only ships. I dont see that happening for the simple reason of profit. Yea those are the two things right now I believe are stopping people from giving the kdf a real go.
Recruitment Events and Reputations are two different systems that have nothing to do with each other. They're not account wide, and I've done them on every one of my characters. It's just a given that you'll have to do those sorts of things again.
As for ships and the like, you can still play through the game without buying anything. If someone wants to buy something to play the KDF that's their choice to do so or not. I know I've made the choice to buy ships for each of my characters, regardless of faction, I don't see why that should be any different for everyone else. Besides, as has been pointed out, there are far fewer ships to buy for the KDF!
It occurs to me that we're just focusing on the one idea I threw out there, when I started this thread to ask for other peoples opinions on what they thought would bring new players into the KDF faction.
The best incentive to play KDF: reduce the cooldown on turning in contraband. 20 hours really?
Eight or twelve hours should do the trick.
Given that the infamous 16% statistic comes from a time it was 4 hours, I don't think so.
Not that a bunch of farmer toons running doff assignments for contraband is any incentive to develop the faction, either. No matter how many there are.
Using KDF as contraband farm is the first step to playing a KDF character.
Without the contraband farming the entry of new KDF players will be lower still.
Which makes me wonder what percentage of characters in the game are nothing but farming alts. this might explain the discrepancy between ship sales and character count.
It also casts a pall on the very premise of incentivizing KDF play. If a player wants to make a character for farming, currently the best option is KDF/Rom. Anything done to "incentivize" play of x over y incentivizes farming too.
That's all depending on what the "incentives" are. There are daily incentives to log into your Fed toon and run Doff missions, and those are nothing but farming missions. This fear of "it'll just create more farmers" is a bit of thin argument in my opinion. Farming alts already exist, and they probably do already make up a fair number of KDF characters, but how about we start proposing some ideas about how to get people to PLAY the KDF instead of worrying about a problem that has always been in the game and will continue to be in the game until Cryptic does something to curb that sort of activity (so never really, because it's impossible to stop players from logging into to run Doff missions).
Enh, we should first start by asking ourselves what we think Cryptic's goal would be when incentivizing. Farming alts may, or may not benefit what the goal is.
Actually the goal is always $$$, it's really more about how they get it.
Currently the reason people like to run KDF is marauding missions that give contraband. Contraband>dil>zen.... yeah, I don't see $$$ in there.
So what sort of incentive could Cryptic do that would actually encourage $$$?
I would throw out one sort of likely suggestions, and one notso likely suggestion:
1) Allow Klingon players access to Fed fleet base assets if Fed fleet leaders allow it. IE: Right now I have 3 Klingon toons. 2 of them aren't even level 60 even through I created them 5+ years ago. I actually quite enjoyed playing my Klingon Delta Recruit and found that KDF gameplay can actually be more fun at times than fed, however, I have hit a wall in how good I can make my KDF character. Because the fleet she is in is pretty much me and 3 other players who never play KDF there are no fleet assets to speak of. No consoles, no space/ground weapons, nothing. Rep gear is a good alternative, but it can be resource expensive, and turn the game into a GRINDFEST from he!!.
Alternatively, allow Fed's to contribute to KDF fleet bases. This has been hinted about in the passed, but I fear it has been abandoned altogether for other pursuits.
2) While similar to my first suggestion, this seems less likely or desirable: Merge Feds and KDF. I honestly don't like this idea because the end result will likely be a net NEGATIVE, rather than a net positive.
BONUS: Have a KDF only " Delta Recruitment" event. Similar to AOY, however, they could do in a way that was more Klingon'ey
Perhaps instead of making new missions for the event, have several Qued type missions strictly for KDF, but that offer account-wide rewards. Also, insert the " scan this thing " into each of the KDF only missions like the AOY and Delta's have.
The bottom line, for me, is KDF is quite enjoyable when looking for a different play experience, but the lack of new " shinies" making my ship and ground game gradually better is a bit of a downer.
That's my two cents,, take it for what it is.
*************************** Fleet Admiral In charge of Bacon Fighting 5th Attack Squadron The Devils Henchman
It occurs to me that we're just focusing on the one idea I threw out there, when I started this thread to ask for other peoples opinions on what they thought would bring new players into the KDF faction.
So nobody has any ideas on that front?
I think most are discouraged by PWE/C's current (and subsequent) stance on development of KDF content.
People have lots of great ideas- as have been discussed many times over the years, but without PWE/C's acknowledgment of said issues or effort to change what's needed in order to facilitate growth for KDF, it's all for nought.
Good intent and a couple bucks gets you a nice big cup of coffee. Without action to back it, good intention and ideas are practically worthless.
I'm not at all trying to dissuade discussion, but rather inserting a bit of realism into expectation here- most people who've been involved in such discussion have seen relatively little fruit from the labor- it's not really difficult to understand why there's not a lot of differential ideas being thrown into the pot, IMO.
Would also be nice if Cryptic at least publicly acknowledged the fact that there is a disparity in population and that they're interested in correcting said disparity- but apparently they're A-OK with it six years later.
Just so this is clear- I'd also like to point out that I'm in no way advocating for a removal of restrictions from factions- I'm all for having VERY distinctive faction differences and would love for them to correct the faction systems so they're not so convoluted, however, it's unlikely with the current direction PWE/C is taking we're going to see any of that. Personally I'm done with the "arguments" that topic/subject causes, and would like them to either correct the system or remove the "veil" of factions altogether and be done with it already. "Acting" like there's a faction system when it's clear there's really no practical system in place at all is good for RP but not so great for people who want to invest in a particular faction.
The "pony" I have in this race is I'd love to see the game continue to succeed and thrive- it could be a far greater game than it currently is- all they really need to do is give it a bit of TLC in the right places instead of the "status quo", which is what we've seen the most of for at least the last 3-4 years now. It may even help them if they released an actual 2-5 year "roadmap" so that players can assist them with word of mouth marketing, and so forth- but I sometimes wonder if they really even have a clue which direction the game is going to take from year to year.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
I kinda liked the idea of getting some kind of create a ship type event idea, which would require the players to actually have a character/s of that faction to do the event. The way I see it it would be based on the idea of like what they did with the Jupiter carrier create a ship event, but instead of us voting for the ship on reddit or the forums, it would require us to play thru missions an content in-game on a character that the ship-building event is for (Ie fed, Kdf, romulan). Then when you hand in the mission you get to cast a vote for what you would like to see on this ship, from what class of ship, how much customization, what race it was from, weapon/boff loadouts, and so forth.
I think one other issue is that the idea of having to limit requests/ideas to something doable or smaller scale is self defeating. since honestly it would take something quite large in scale to get enough of a shift in population to actually make the devs see the viability in continued developement. You would need both smaller scale developments to keep people interested/engaged, but also need larger scale developments to actually get people to shift over an see the faction as worth their time investment, so in truth you need that first large development to prop up the pop so that you can retain a profitable population with the smaller developments later.
Just remove teaming restrictions once a player has completed surface tension.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I'm a lifer since day 2, i yet to level a klingon mostly due to the color pallete. If there was some reward system account wide like the delta and temporal system I would most likely push through the klingon content
I don't understand the premise of this thread. Why does there need an incentive to get players to play KDF? Why does there need to be more KDF players?
Or is this a veiled butthurt kdf are underserved by cryptic and we feel ignored thread?
I don't understand the premise of this thread. Why does there need an incentive to get players to play KDF?
Why does there need to be more KDF players?
Or is this a veiled butthurt kdf are underserved by cryptic and we feel ignored thread?
more kdf players = more ships and other c-store items sold = more money for cryptic = more money for the whole game.
any questions?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I don't understand the premise of this thread. Why does there need an incentive to get players to play KDF?
Why does there need to be more KDF players?
Or is this a veiled butthurt kdf are underserved by cryptic and we feel ignored thread?
More or less, but I'm not sure if I'd go as far as butthurt. It seems tailored towards trying to find a way to get the legions who play fed exclusively to try(IE spend money on) KDF. Granted this does seem to have a somewhat self serving goal of getting more stuff for KDF, but it's not solely that.
I don't understand the premise of this thread. Why does there need an incentive to get players to play KDF?
Why does there need to be more KDF players?
Or is this a veiled butthurt kdf are underserved by cryptic and we feel ignored thread?
It's not about being butthurt about anything.
It's about bringing in new players to experience the KDF storyline and faction and what it has to offer, because KDF players would like some basic quality of life improvements that are standard for the Fed faction, and Cryptic saying it's not economically viable to do so because there aren't enough players playing the KDF faction. They aren't ignoring the faction, they just realistically can't add development time to the schedule on something that isn't going to show some sort of return on the investment.
This thread is about brainstorming some ideas on how to make the KDF more economically viable by getting more players to participate. Sort of like your thread about "putting life to the queues" was about offering up an idea on how to make that happen.
I enjoy playing the KDF. I admit when I first started playing it was as a Fed player. I had planned on making a KDF char sooner than I did. But life interfered and I didn't get to until Delta Recruit. But even since I made my KDF char, I haven't played my Fed chars much, mainly just doffing. The fact that all the Science ships are cash shop items aren't an incentive to play. I have a Tac and and Sci.
For me, after having been in the U.S. Army, playing KDF was more natural. The KDF story arc held to Honor and Duty. The Federation story line felt like little more than, "We are the Federation. Now go forth and kill everything in your path." It didn't feel like I was a part of the Federation or even Starfleet. It left a more Terran Empire feeling than anything else.
While I would appreciate a good event for both the KDF and Romulans. For me, it is not needed. I've already taken to the Foundry. Granted I'm stilling learning the ins on outs of it, and it shows in some of the missions that I have in. I have a story that I am trying to tell. But I'm also focusing on the systems and planets that have nothing or just a PvP queue. The latter is time consuming, digging in to Lore, which some have and some don't, and applying it to what I do. Of course having to build maps for it all is also time consuming. This is what I can do for the KDF, so that's what I'm doing. And no, before you ask, none of my missions will be available for the Federation.
I completely agree that KDF play definitely feels more in line with the gameplay choices of the developers, with the constant combat and lack of diplomacy. It just plays to the factions tendencies, and is a more natural fit. I think that they managed to put in some of the "Honor and Glory" that the KDF is famous for, but there's always room for more.
As I said in a previous post, I think releasing more maps and assets from the KDF side of things to the Foundry would definitely help things out, however, as it is there seems to be little incentive for most players to delve into the Foundry missions as it is (especially since they removed the dilithium daily) and between that and the lack of promotion of the system, and the messy search that makes it difficult to find missions that have the "flavor" you're in the mood for, I think the Foundry is becoming underutilized and/or forgotten by many players. But that's a whole other issue.
And I understand completely that it may not seem necessary to draw focus to the KDF for you and other players that are currently enjoying the faction. But the whole point is to bring the KDF into focus for players that either have never tried KDF play out before, or have a KDF toon that is collecting dust (or just used to grind Contraband or Doff missions).
Thanks for your perspective and response. I look forward to checking out your Foundry missions!
Yeah I have quite a few ideas I want to pursue in the foundry in that manner. For ground, some things have a few bugs that need to be fixed. My main problem for ground is that in the ground scale ship area, we only have the Mogh. We don't have anything else, no shuttles, no BoPs, just the Mogh. This wouldn't be a problem is I could just reskin the Federation ground scale ships with KDF skins. Space we could use a few more deatials, mainly in the ship area. We only have derelict, active, and damaged vor'cha's there. Granted for ground and space we could use some Lethean contacts and npc groups, this is nothing major though. Just have to create some lethean costumes and reskin what you place.
As far as maps go. Most of the KDF areas only have the old fleet queue and pvp maps. Some of these I'd like to have. Some, not so much. It's one of the things I'll just have to do as I work on it. Build the maps, which can get time consuming, but isn't hard. The hardest part for me here is finding Lore I can tie each sector/system/planet to. The foundry just need more maps in general. I'd prefer more generic maps than mission maps. But I'll take mission maps. I just wish we could set the amount of ambient objects they place on these maps. Nothing annoys me more about the pre-made maps, than all the clutter cryptic places on them. And I'm not the only one, other foundry author's that I have talked to want more KDF assests. It hurts Fed or Rom authors as well if they want to use the KDF in there stories.
The foundry search is weird, yes. But it's been noted and it may get sorted out. For now though, if you're wanting to search for particular author's or missions. There is a site for that, that someone outside of Cryptic created. I'll link it for everyone. Granted, not all the foundry missions are on it. It's up to the author's to go there and list them. So it may or may not help with the search.
I don't understand the premise of this thread. Why does there need an incentive to get players to play KDF?
Why does there need to be more KDF players?
Or is this a veiled butthurt kdf are underserved by cryptic and we feel ignored thread?
Add it to the list of things you don't understand. Don't you have some "debunching" to do?
I was wondering what might be done peer to peer. The tone of the thread had struck me as more of a wish listing thing and I went with a, "What could Cryptic do" scenario. I hadn't considered fielding what I or anyone else here might be doing. I belong to a fair sized fleet that has both a Fed and Klingon component but the KDF side of the house is too quiet. If I didn't have the fleet chat channel up I'd think I was the only fleet member online from a glance at the KDF roster.
What can be done? I wish that I knew how to reinvigorate interest within the fleet but it seems as though I have no powerful incentive to make the sell. AoY brought some wonderful TOS Klingon costumes but the players Fed side got a micro faction. I replayed the tutorial/Klingon story missions and they aren't nearly as polished or friendly as the alternative. Has anyone else found their halls nearly empty most of the time while your Fed counterpart seems like a hub of activity?
Having a purpose is nice. I'm cetain other fleeties will up for some queues KDF side when the time comes to build K-13 so there is an activity draw on the horizon but it would be nice to create something internally that could foster more interest. I don't like dangling a prize because it isn't much different than motivation by contraband farming.
I remember a weekend at least a year ago when a community member organized a Klingon activity day. I had to work so I only made one quick run but it was a cool idea to get a large group of players who appreciate the KDF together.
Being butthurt isn't proactive. I'd rather do something with what we do have. Maybe it isn't about assets but trying to reengage ourselves and demonstrate that Klingon players have fun together.
I don't understand the premise of this thread. Why does there need an incentive to get players to play KDF?
Why does there need to be more KDF players?
Or is this a veiled butthurt kdf are underserved by cryptic and we feel ignored thread?
This is supposed to be an intelligent conversation between adults about particular aspects of STO. Or rather how to improve them. Of course you don't understand. But then again, you're not expected to. All those big words and grammatically correct sentences and no InterWebs memes anywhere in sight. We all lowered our expectations about what you can contribute a very long time ago. But it isn't your fault your ancestors only waded in the shallow end of the gene pool.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
You know what I also find annoying about Cryptic? The circular reasoning, they don't make more KDF exclusive, or Romulan for that matter, content because supposedly not enough people play it.
But these factions, mostly KDF, are not played as much as Feds -because- there's not nearly enough content compared to the Federation.
There is never a reason to intentionally create product the majority of your customers are forbidden from buying.
True.
Still, there's an argument to be had for the fact that if you've cornered one market you need to expand out into different ones in order to continue to grow your business. However, though I recognize that they have heavily cornered and incentivized the Fed market, there's still always another ship that they could sell (or revamp and sell again) and always more costumes on offer, simply because there's more there for Feds in the source material.
Exactly. The Federation has more "source material." Which is why they have so much at the moment. For the KDF, just looking at the the klingon section tells you how much the player's are willing to help out in that manner. Two of the main things people have asked for are more costumes and, of course, females for Nausicaan, Gorn and Lethean.
The other main thing you will find there is ship building and discussion. While I can't actually design how a ship appears. I can use a stat block as, this is what we would prefer.
I've taken to the foundry and been working on things for the KDF. While I'm attempting to tell a story with what I do. I've also taken up fleshing out the Empire some more. One of the main posts I pay attention to is mine about "Imperial Space.' As I work through the foundry, I'll look at a system, then look at the lore of that system that's already set. Then I'll look to see if there is any more lore that I could possibly tie to that system. This give me the leeway to expand on the system in question. Of course I do try to incorporate a tie in to my story with every one that I do. I mean I could just stop trying to tell a story and just work on fleshing out the systems. But I'll work with my idea. I'll eventually touch up the KDF R&D for ships. Which, as part of my Lore for it, I'll go over the forums and some how incorporate the player designed stat blocks in to as part of it. This way I'll be able to maintain the feel of the KDF player's suggestions to improve the fleet.
The only thing to look out for here is the map building. While I do have a few short missions in. My lastest one I'm trying to make a good bit longer. Which means I have to either A) Find a pre-built map I can use for it or Build a custome map for it. The only problem I run in to with the custom built, is I can't build the terrain. For that I have to turn to the pre-mades. Though I am doing custom maps for cities and such. My main problem here, is the lack of KDF assests. I want to build colonies and such, as I go. This is hard to do when the only ground scale ship I have is the Mogh. Buildings and such I can work with, just need some debugging on some of them. As KDF player, this is what I can do to help. I'm always open to suggestions as to what other players would like to see. I'm also willing to help any other KDF player if they want to take up working in the foundry. We can't share projects. But, we can share thoughts and ideas. That and learning to use the foundry can be a bit of a pain without learning some of the tricks to it.
Well I for one do not like the ideas floating around along the lines of incorporating the KDF players into Fed starbases, or trying to remove all faction boundaries. I know allot of feds want to see that but myself, and I think others would like to keep the Empire strong and not merged in with the fed. Personally I would find it hard to believe that the majority of the kdf playerbase that mains a kDF player wants to merge with the fed.
As for the butthurt comment, unless I am not reading the ops picture correctly, I believe he is a federation player. A hunch persay, to my knowledge this thread was not started by KDF players.
I honestly see rep and ships as a bigger blockade then some think, but oh well its an opinion. As for the foundry, I recently found a thread in the kdf forums about it. So I gave it a go. It felt backwards to me. Something I did very well a long time ago was mess with world editors, I did not use the net as a guide. I would twist and turn the world editors to create amazing things, but this foundry seems backwards. From what I can tell, instead of making the map first, you have to create the dialog, triggers, and objectives first. To me that seems odd, until I finish making the map, how will I know what triggers, dialog, and objectives I will need. Of course thats an assumption that the foundry operates in that fashion. Mostly guess work here form this perspective. I do see the potential of the foundry. Just some random thoughts on this last point regarding the foundry.
French has a divergent grammar compared to English and that may lead to some confusion.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I enjoy playing the KDF. I admit when I first started playing it was as a Fed player. I had planned on making a KDF char sooner than I did. But life interfered and I didn't get to until Delta Recruit. But even since I made my KDF char, I haven't played my Fed chars much, mainly just doffing. The fact that all the Science ships are cash shop items aren't an incentive to play. I have a Tac and and Sci.
For me, after having been in the U.S. Army, playing KDF was more natural. The KDF story arc held to Honor and Duty. The Federation story line felt like little more than, "We are the Federation. Now go forth and kill everything in your path." It didn't feel like I was a part of the Federation or even Starfleet. It left a more Terran Empire feeling than anything else.
While I would appreciate a good event for both the KDF and Romulans. For me, it is not needed. I've already taken to the Foundry. Granted I'm stilling learning the ins on outs of it, and it shows in some of the missions that I have in. I have a story that I am trying to tell. But I'm also focusing on the systems and planets that have nothing or just a PvP queue. The latter is time consuming, digging in to Lore, which some have and some don't, and applying it to what I do. Of course having to build maps for it all is also time consuming. This is what I can do for the KDF, so that's what I'm doing. And no, before you ask, none of my missions will be available for the Federation.
I completely agree that KDF play definitely feels more in line with the gameplay choices of the developers, with the constant combat and lack of diplomacy. It just plays to the factions tendencies, and is a more natural fit. I think that they managed to put in some of the "Honor and Glory" that the KDF is famous for, but there's always room for more.
As I said in a previous post, I think releasing more maps and assets from the KDF side of things to the Foundry would definitely help things out, however, as it is there seems to be little incentive for most players to delve into the Foundry missions as it is (especially since they removed the dilithium daily) and between that and the lack of promotion of the system, and the messy search that makes it difficult to find missions that have the "flavor" you're in the mood for, I think the Foundry is becoming underutilized and/or forgotten by many players. But that's a whole other issue.
And I understand completely that it may not seem necessary to draw focus to the KDF for you and other players that are currently enjoying the faction. But the whole point is to bring the KDF into focus for players that either have never tried KDF play out before, or have a KDF toon that is collecting dust (or just used to grind Contraband or Doff missions).
Thanks for your perspective and response. I look forward to checking out your Foundry missions!
Yeah I have quite a few ideas I want to pursue in the foundry in that manner. For ground, some things have a few bugs that need to be fixed. My main problem for ground is that in the ground scale ship area, we only have the Mogh. We don't have anything else, no shuttles, no BoPs, just the Mogh. This wouldn't be a problem is I could just reskin the Federation ground scale ships with KDF skins. Space we could use a few more deatials, mainly in the ship area. We only have derelict, active, and damaged vor'cha's there. Granted for ground and space we could use some Lethean contacts and npc groups, this is nothing major though. Just have to create some lethean costumes and reskin what you place.
As far as maps go. Most of the KDF areas only have the old fleet queue and pvp maps. Some of these I'd like to have. Some, not so much. It's one of the things I'll just have to do as I work on it. Build the maps, which can get time consuming, but isn't hard. The hardest part for me here is finding Lore I can tie each sector/system/planet to. The foundry just need more maps in general. I'd prefer more generic maps than mission maps. But I'll take mission maps. I just wish we could set the amount of ambient objects they place on these maps. Nothing annoys me more about the pre-made maps, than all the clutter cryptic places on them. And I'm not the only one, other foundry author's that I have talked to want more KDF assests. It hurts Fed or Rom authors as well if they want to use the KDF in there stories.
The foundry search is weird, yes. But it's been noted and it may get sorted out. For now though, if you're wanting to search for particular author's or missions. There is a site for that, that someone outside of Cryptic created. I'll link it for everyone. Granted, not all the foundry missions are on it. It's up to the author's to go there and list them. So it may or may not help with the search.
I agree that the Foundry could use many more maps, and many more assets - not just for KDF, but across the board. It could use some smoothing around the edges too, to make it more user friendly to those players who've never messed with a level builder before too. The tutorials that the Foundry Roundtable gang have put together are a great help, and deserve a Blog post to promote them in my opinion.
The Foundry is the future of the game. I think Cryptic knows this too, but the lack of further development of that system is tragic.
I've messed around with making some Foundry maps, and I agree that the ground scale ships are great, but there needs to be more of them, especially for the KDF. The fact that there's been a landed BOP in several maps in game for years but it still isn't available to the Foundry authors yet is a real problem, but sadly just the way Cryptic seems to operate. So many times they've set things in motion and then seemingly abandoned them.
The Delta Quadrant is another example of that. Here's a portion of the game that they spent a lot of time and effort developing, and yet they haven't released any further content for that region since a few months after launch. New Romulus is the same.
There's hope that they may spend some resources on some of these things now that the 'new money" is coming in from the consoles. Maybe they'll streamline the Foundry a bit to work on those platforms. Who knows. Let's hope, because if and when we hit the downward trend of development - hopefully years from now - to the point where Champions is at for example, the Foundry is going to be the key to keeping this game active for years afterwards.
Edit to add:
A bit off topic, but the other thing that will keep this game afloat is Roleplayers. In my opinion, Roleplayers are the types of players that stick to a game long after all the other play types have left.
This game needs more mechanics to facilitate RP. More emotes, easier ways to communicate and create larger groups, and more social zones with more things that can be done in them. The Foundry is one of the best tool for RPers I've ever seen in a game, but creating RP social zones is nearly impossible with the group size limit and other flaws to the game.
In other MMO's I've played, walking around and randomly finding people RPing was a great boost to immersion, and made the world seem more alive. Sadly, here in STO it seems that the RP community - if it even exists anymore - has been driven underground to the point that they are invisible. The world seems a thinner place without them.
How about we start with some simple things for incentivizing new(er) KDF players? The easiest path forward which can be used with the smallest amount of energy expended is the one people usually take.
Add in dialogue to the Interactions with chars which reflects the faction the player is playing as. C'mon, Devs! You did it in House Pegh. You do it every time Sela shows up. You did it with Admiral Leeta. PWE/Cryptic paid those people to use their likeness and then get them to do VO's for the game. And did so willingly. Without making either of them simply choose to sound like a dodgy copy of a Starfleet officer.
So why can't you do the same thing for the people who pay you? I'm not asking for an actual voice for my character. Having response choices more appropriate to a subject of the Empire or a citizen the Republic when I press <F> would be a good place to start. This cannot be that hard to do, can it?
Next, add in a faction specific mission once in awhile. One or two a year brought out at odd intervals would work. Drop some blogs about them. The way the Iconian War was initially presented would be a very good template. Just slow the pace down to extend the time out a little bit. And make some faction-specific gear for the rewards. It doesn't have to be anything more glamorous or powerful than that Roumlan Navy Ground Set. Which I very much enjoy using.
Lastly, please think about establishing and maintaining a stage setting. Which the two examples above are a part of. Homogenizing the game to reduce production times and costs and increase ROI is a good goal. Nothing at all wrong with earning enough money to feed the server hamsters. Creating "sticky" missions and events which require the player to spend more time in the game isn't wrong either. The more time someone plays STO, the more likely they are to spend RL Currency on it. I usually buy the prepaid cards which I keep in a stack after using. The height of this stack is worrisome sometimes, lol.
But if all I am going to do is play as Starfleet with either a Red or Green whatever, then why bother playing Red or Green at all? Which means I am playing Red or Green less. Which means I am playing STO less. Which means STO is losing opportunities to earn RL Currency from me. This cannot be good for Cryptic, can it?
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Comments
True.
Still, there's an argument to be had for the fact that if you've cornered one market you need to expand out into different ones in order to continue to grow your business. However, though I recognize that they have heavily cornered and incentivized the Fed market, there's still always another ship that they could sell (or revamp and sell again) and always more costumes on offer, simply because there's more there for Feds in the source material.
True, it would be great, and honestly might bring more people to the factions outside of fed. Well I can agree that it would be about six months of work total for both a tos era kdf an rom perspective done, as the missions an content is already in game done with just needing some tweaks, though the harder part is making a tos era hub for each (tos era Romulus and Qo'noS basically.). But yeah will it happen not sure, most likely not, but bringing it up an if players show an interest might showcase a change in mentality.
It would be nice to see each of the three factions get a bit more distinction in their play-style, and feel than they currently have. Not saying making cloaking/battle-cloaking exclusive again, but more faction linked methods of how they use cloaking to be more appropriate, as a Romulan used their cloak quite differently than a Klingon did. Things like Romulans might gain a stacking buff while their cloaked, while Klingons might might get more of a consolidation type effect that causes their weapons to deliver their damage in a much more compact form. It would also be nice to see some faction specific abilities that could draw some players over too,
As for what Kelshando said above...I'm kind of hoping they just admit "defeat" and allow KDF folks to join Fed Fleets (*IF* the player so chooses). At least then those folks in smaller Fleets who can't seem to "get anywhere" have a chance to do so. I only say this because there seems to be less talk/invites re Fleets on KDF side of things when I'm playing STO. /shrug
It also casts a pall on the very premise of incentivizing KDF play. If a player wants to make a character for farming, currently the best option is KDF/Rom. Anything done to "incentivize" play of x over y incentivizes farming too.
My character Tsin'xing
Its been left far to late in the games life.
Recruitment Events and Reputations are two different systems that have nothing to do with each other. They're not account wide, and I've done them on every one of my characters. It's just a given that you'll have to do those sorts of things again.
As for ships and the like, you can still play through the game without buying anything. If someone wants to buy something to play the KDF that's their choice to do so or not. I know I've made the choice to buy ships for each of my characters, regardless of faction, I don't see why that should be any different for everyone else. Besides, as has been pointed out, there are far fewer ships to buy for the KDF!
So nobody has any ideas on that front?
That's all depending on what the "incentives" are. There are daily incentives to log into your Fed toon and run Doff missions, and those are nothing but farming missions. This fear of "it'll just create more farmers" is a bit of thin argument in my opinion. Farming alts already exist, and they probably do already make up a fair number of KDF characters, but how about we start proposing some ideas about how to get people to PLAY the KDF instead of worrying about a problem that has always been in the game and will continue to be in the game until Cryptic does something to curb that sort of activity (so never really, because it's impossible to stop players from logging into to run Doff missions).
Actually the goal is always $$$, it's really more about how they get it.
Currently the reason people like to run KDF is marauding missions that give contraband. Contraband>dil>zen.... yeah, I don't see $$$ in there.
So what sort of incentive could Cryptic do that would actually encourage $$$?
My character Tsin'xing
1) Allow Klingon players access to Fed fleet base assets if Fed fleet leaders allow it. IE: Right now I have 3 Klingon toons. 2 of them aren't even level 60 even through I created them 5+ years ago. I actually quite enjoyed playing my Klingon Delta Recruit and found that KDF gameplay can actually be more fun at times than fed, however, I have hit a wall in how good I can make my KDF character. Because the fleet she is in is pretty much me and 3 other players who never play KDF there are no fleet assets to speak of. No consoles, no space/ground weapons, nothing. Rep gear is a good alternative, but it can be resource expensive, and turn the game into a GRINDFEST from he!!.
Alternatively, allow Fed's to contribute to KDF fleet bases. This has been hinted about in the passed, but I fear it has been abandoned altogether for other pursuits.
2) While similar to my first suggestion, this seems less likely or desirable: Merge Feds and KDF. I honestly don't like this idea because the end result will likely be a net NEGATIVE, rather than a net positive.
BONUS: Have a KDF only " Delta Recruitment" event. Similar to AOY, however, they could do in a way that was more Klingon'ey
Perhaps instead of making new missions for the event, have several Qued type missions strictly for KDF, but that offer account-wide rewards. Also, insert the " scan this thing " into each of the KDF only missions like the AOY and Delta's have.
The bottom line, for me, is KDF is quite enjoyable when looking for a different play experience, but the lack of new " shinies" making my ship and ground game gradually better is a bit of a downer.
That's my two cents,, take it for what it is.
Fleet Admiral In charge of Bacon
Fighting 5th Attack Squadron
The Devils Henchman
I think most are discouraged by PWE/C's current (and subsequent) stance on development of KDF content.
People have lots of great ideas- as have been discussed many times over the years, but without PWE/C's acknowledgment of said issues or effort to change what's needed in order to facilitate growth for KDF, it's all for nought.
Good intent and a couple bucks gets you a nice big cup of coffee. Without action to back it, good intention and ideas are practically worthless.
I'm not at all trying to dissuade discussion, but rather inserting a bit of realism into expectation here- most people who've been involved in such discussion have seen relatively little fruit from the labor- it's not really difficult to understand why there's not a lot of differential ideas being thrown into the pot, IMO.
Would also be nice if Cryptic at least publicly acknowledged the fact that there is a disparity in population and that they're interested in correcting said disparity- but apparently they're A-OK with it six years later.
Just so this is clear- I'd also like to point out that I'm in no way advocating for a removal of restrictions from factions- I'm all for having VERY distinctive faction differences and would love for them to correct the faction systems so they're not so convoluted, however, it's unlikely with the current direction PWE/C is taking we're going to see any of that. Personally I'm done with the "arguments" that topic/subject causes, and would like them to either correct the system or remove the "veil" of factions altogether and be done with it already. "Acting" like there's a faction system when it's clear there's really no practical system in place at all is good for RP but not so great for people who want to invest in a particular faction.
The "pony" I have in this race is I'd love to see the game continue to succeed and thrive- it could be a far greater game than it currently is- all they really need to do is give it a bit of TLC in the right places instead of the "status quo", which is what we've seen the most of for at least the last 3-4 years now. It may even help them if they released an actual 2-5 year "roadmap" so that players can assist them with word of mouth marketing, and so forth- but I sometimes wonder if they really even have a clue which direction the game is going to take from year to year.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
I think one other issue is that the idea of having to limit requests/ideas to something doable or smaller scale is self defeating. since honestly it would take something quite large in scale to get enough of a shift in population to actually make the devs see the viability in continued developement. You would need both smaller scale developments to keep people interested/engaged, but also need larger scale developments to actually get people to shift over an see the faction as worth their time investment, so in truth you need that first large development to prop up the pop so that you can retain a profitable population with the smaller developments later.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1222871/the-gorn-are-giving-the-lukari-a-ship
Just a lockbox or two away from giving them to everyone. Maybe even as an event ship.
Why does there need to be more KDF players?
Or is this a veiled butthurt kdf are underserved by cryptic and we feel ignored thread?
more kdf players = more ships and other c-store items sold = more money for cryptic = more money for the whole game.
any questions?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
My character Tsin'xing
It's not about being butthurt about anything.
It's about bringing in new players to experience the KDF storyline and faction and what it has to offer, because KDF players would like some basic quality of life improvements that are standard for the Fed faction, and Cryptic saying it's not economically viable to do so because there aren't enough players playing the KDF faction. They aren't ignoring the faction, they just realistically can't add development time to the schedule on something that isn't going to show some sort of return on the investment.
This thread is about brainstorming some ideas on how to make the KDF more economically viable by getting more players to participate. Sort of like your thread about "putting life to the queues" was about offering up an idea on how to make that happen.
Yeah I have quite a few ideas I want to pursue in the foundry in that manner. For ground, some things have a few bugs that need to be fixed. My main problem for ground is that in the ground scale ship area, we only have the Mogh. We don't have anything else, no shuttles, no BoPs, just the Mogh. This wouldn't be a problem is I could just reskin the Federation ground scale ships with KDF skins. Space we could use a few more deatials, mainly in the ship area. We only have derelict, active, and damaged vor'cha's there. Granted for ground and space we could use some Lethean contacts and npc groups, this is nothing major though. Just have to create some lethean costumes and reskin what you place.
As far as maps go. Most of the KDF areas only have the old fleet queue and pvp maps. Some of these I'd like to have. Some, not so much. It's one of the things I'll just have to do as I work on it. Build the maps, which can get time consuming, but isn't hard. The hardest part for me here is finding Lore I can tie each sector/system/planet to. The foundry just need more maps in general. I'd prefer more generic maps than mission maps. But I'll take mission maps. I just wish we could set the amount of ambient objects they place on these maps. Nothing annoys me more about the pre-made maps, than all the clutter cryptic places on them. And I'm not the only one, other foundry author's that I have talked to want more KDF assests. It hurts Fed or Rom authors as well if they want to use the KDF in there stories.
The foundry search is weird, yes. But it's been noted and it may get sorted out. For now though, if you're wanting to search for particular author's or missions. There is a site for that, that someone outside of Cryptic created. I'll link it for everyone. Granted, not all the foundry missions are on it. It's up to the author's to go there and list them. So it may or may not help with the search.
http://www.foundrymissions.com/
Add it to the list of things you don't understand. Don't you have some "debunching" to do?
I was wondering what might be done peer to peer. The tone of the thread had struck me as more of a wish listing thing and I went with a, "What could Cryptic do" scenario. I hadn't considered fielding what I or anyone else here might be doing. I belong to a fair sized fleet that has both a Fed and Klingon component but the KDF side of the house is too quiet. If I didn't have the fleet chat channel up I'd think I was the only fleet member online from a glance at the KDF roster.
What can be done? I wish that I knew how to reinvigorate interest within the fleet but it seems as though I have no powerful incentive to make the sell. AoY brought some wonderful TOS Klingon costumes but the players Fed side got a micro faction. I replayed the tutorial/Klingon story missions and they aren't nearly as polished or friendly as the alternative. Has anyone else found their halls nearly empty most of the time while your Fed counterpart seems like a hub of activity?
Having a purpose is nice. I'm cetain other fleeties will up for some queues KDF side when the time comes to build K-13 so there is an activity draw on the horizon but it would be nice to create something internally that could foster more interest. I don't like dangling a prize because it isn't much different than motivation by contraband farming.
I remember a weekend at least a year ago when a community member organized a Klingon activity day. I had to work so I only made one quick run but it was a cool idea to get a large group of players who appreciate the KDF together.
Being butthurt isn't proactive. I'd rather do something with what we do have. Maybe it isn't about assets but trying to reengage ourselves and demonstrate that Klingon players have fun together.
This is supposed to be an intelligent conversation between adults about particular aspects of STO. Or rather how to improve them.
Of course you don't understand. But then again, you're not expected to. All those big words and grammatically correct sentences and no InterWebs memes anywhere in sight. We all lowered our expectations about what you can contribute a very long time ago. But it isn't your fault your ancestors only waded in the shallow end of the gene pool.
Exactly. The Federation has more "source material." Which is why they have so much at the moment. For the KDF, just looking at the the klingon section tells you how much the player's are willing to help out in that manner. Two of the main things people have asked for are more costumes and, of course, females for Nausicaan, Gorn and Lethean.
The other main thing you will find there is ship building and discussion. While I can't actually design how a ship appears. I can use a stat block as, this is what we would prefer.
I've taken to the foundry and been working on things for the KDF. While I'm attempting to tell a story with what I do. I've also taken up fleshing out the Empire some more. One of the main posts I pay attention to is mine about "Imperial Space.' As I work through the foundry, I'll look at a system, then look at the lore of that system that's already set. Then I'll look to see if there is any more lore that I could possibly tie to that system. This give me the leeway to expand on the system in question. Of course I do try to incorporate a tie in to my story with every one that I do. I mean I could just stop trying to tell a story and just work on fleshing out the systems. But I'll work with my idea. I'll eventually touch up the KDF R&D for ships. Which, as part of my Lore for it, I'll go over the forums and some how incorporate the player designed stat blocks in to as part of it. This way I'll be able to maintain the feel of the KDF player's suggestions to improve the fleet.
The only thing to look out for here is the map building. While I do have a few short missions in. My lastest one I'm trying to make a good bit longer. Which means I have to either A) Find a pre-built map I can use for it or
As for the butthurt comment, unless I am not reading the ops picture correctly, I believe he is a federation player. A hunch persay, to my knowledge this thread was not started by KDF players.
I honestly see rep and ships as a bigger blockade then some think, but oh well its an opinion. As for the foundry, I recently found a thread in the kdf forums about it. So I gave it a go. It felt backwards to me. Something I did very well a long time ago was mess with world editors, I did not use the net as a guide. I would twist and turn the world editors to create amazing things, but this foundry seems backwards. From what I can tell, instead of making the map first, you have to create the dialog, triggers, and objectives first. To me that seems odd, until I finish making the map, how will I know what triggers, dialog, and objectives I will need. Of course thats an assumption that the foundry operates in that fashion. Mostly guess work here form this perspective. I do see the potential of the foundry. Just some random thoughts on this last point regarding the foundry.
Edit: For those who wish to use a translator i present the German version
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10165443-eroberungen
French has a divergent grammar compared to English and that may lead to some confusion.
Thanks for the link! That's awesome!
I agree that the Foundry could use many more maps, and many more assets - not just for KDF, but across the board. It could use some smoothing around the edges too, to make it more user friendly to those players who've never messed with a level builder before too. The tutorials that the Foundry Roundtable gang have put together are a great help, and deserve a Blog post to promote them in my opinion.
The Foundry is the future of the game. I think Cryptic knows this too, but the lack of further development of that system is tragic.
I've messed around with making some Foundry maps, and I agree that the ground scale ships are great, but there needs to be more of them, especially for the KDF. The fact that there's been a landed BOP in several maps in game for years but it still isn't available to the Foundry authors yet is a real problem, but sadly just the way Cryptic seems to operate. So many times they've set things in motion and then seemingly abandoned them.
The Delta Quadrant is another example of that. Here's a portion of the game that they spent a lot of time and effort developing, and yet they haven't released any further content for that region since a few months after launch. New Romulus is the same.
There's hope that they may spend some resources on some of these things now that the 'new money" is coming in from the consoles. Maybe they'll streamline the Foundry a bit to work on those platforms. Who knows. Let's hope, because if and when we hit the downward trend of development - hopefully years from now - to the point where Champions is at for example, the Foundry is going to be the key to keeping this game active for years afterwards.
Edit to add:
A bit off topic, but the other thing that will keep this game afloat is Roleplayers. In my opinion, Roleplayers are the types of players that stick to a game long after all the other play types have left.
This game needs more mechanics to facilitate RP. More emotes, easier ways to communicate and create larger groups, and more social zones with more things that can be done in them. The Foundry is one of the best tool for RPers I've ever seen in a game, but creating RP social zones is nearly impossible with the group size limit and other flaws to the game.
In other MMO's I've played, walking around and randomly finding people RPing was a great boost to immersion, and made the world seem more alive. Sadly, here in STO it seems that the RP community - if it even exists anymore - has been driven underground to the point that they are invisible. The world seems a thinner place without them.
Add in dialogue to the Interactions with chars which reflects the faction the player is playing as. C'mon, Devs! You did it in House Pegh. You do it every time Sela shows up. You did it with Admiral Leeta. PWE/Cryptic paid those people to use their likeness and then get them to do VO's for the game. And did so willingly. Without making either of them simply choose to sound like a dodgy copy of a Starfleet officer.
So why can't you do the same thing for the people who pay you? I'm not asking for an actual voice for my character. Having response choices more appropriate to a subject of the Empire or a citizen the Republic when I press <F> would be a good place to start. This cannot be that hard to do, can it?
Next, add in a faction specific mission once in awhile. One or two a year brought out at odd intervals would work. Drop some blogs about them. The way the Iconian War was initially presented would be a very good template. Just slow the pace down to extend the time out a little bit. And make some faction-specific gear for the rewards. It doesn't have to be anything more glamorous or powerful than that Roumlan Navy Ground Set. Which I very much enjoy using.
Lastly, please think about establishing and maintaining a stage setting. Which the two examples above are a part of. Homogenizing the game to reduce production times and costs and increase ROI is a good goal. Nothing at all wrong with earning enough money to feed the server hamsters. Creating "sticky" missions and events which require the player to spend more time in the game isn't wrong either. The more time someone plays STO, the more likely they are to spend RL Currency on it. I usually buy the prepaid cards which I keep in a stack after using. The height of this stack is worrisome sometimes, lol.
But if all I am going to do is play as Starfleet with either a Red or Green whatever, then why bother playing Red or Green at all? Which means I am playing Red or Green less. Which means I am playing STO less. Which means STO is losing opportunities to earn RL Currency from me. This cannot be good for Cryptic, can it?