2018 is way too early for any further level cap increase, even if one was needed which it isn't.
You are only fooling yourself. Players said the same before they rolled in lvl60 and T6 ships and "Oh, by the way..that full set of Oddy cruisers you bought for $50? They are T5u; now buy these new fancy T6s we made"
They can't leave it at 60. The game will stagnate, even with new content. My main is already near the cap on about everything, heck even my Boffs have MkXIV rep gear, making them better equipped than many captains out there. I play new content for fun, but I'm not improving my captain.
Sooner than later, more and more captains will reach the same realization and Cryptic will either find a way to make it work or lose customers. Just look at WoW. How many times has it seen Level increases?
Quinn is a full on 5 pips Admiral. As in most navies, that's the top rank, he would be the only one (discounting that players nonsensically are allowed to reach that rank too). That makes him the C in C, inasmuch as he's the highest ranking officer in the fleet.
He's not. There are other Fleet Admirals in the game. Also, it's Starfleet, not a military navy, who says 5 is the highest the pips go to?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
They're using the U.S. Navy Rank structure. This does not mean they are using the U.S. Chain of Command for it.
For this, they would have to make the rank "Admiral of Starfleet", which would be the same as the "Admiral of the Navy." But this is to simplify the Chain of Command.
Which for the U.S Military is.
C.I.C. - President
Joint Chief's of Staff - Admiral of the Navy, General of the Army, General of the Air Force, General of the Marines(I know the name are probably off for the last two.)
But with Star Trek, you only have one military force, Starfleet. And its not really suppose to be a military force.
The only faction that still works in this manner are the Klingons. For the KDF it goes Emperor ~> Chancellor ~> High Command ~> Klingon Defense Force.
For Starfleet it goes Monkey in Charge ~> Every other monkey.
You're wrong about the names of all of those in the Joint Chiefs. They have normal ranks, and are not part of the operational chain of command. They serve as an advisory panel to the President and Secretary of Defense. They are the senior uniformed leaders of each branch, but don't necessarily have a higher rank than other flag or general officers. The current Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is a 4 star Marine Corps General. The Chairman is only awarded a 5th star if there is an active 5 star officer that would be beneath him, so that said subordinate did not outrank the Chairman. The representatives of each branch have a special title, alongside their ranks, to denote their positions. Joint Chiefs of Staff website.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
Didn't say there wouldn't be another cap increase, just said 2018 is far too early for it & that I don't think its needed. I play every single day & have since I started playing the game, I don't have a single character that has filled all of their spec trees, hell I don't have a single character that has filled more than 1 spec tree, out of 16 characters. Frankly I think your fooling yourself about the need for another cap increase.
I wouldn't be surprised if they have already begun the work. Q3 or !4 of 2017 at the latest. They can't go any longer than that or the player base will suffer
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
We're still a few positions away from President. There's Commander Starfleet, Chief of Staff and Chief of Starfleet Operations. Then there's being a member of Starfleet Command and/or the Federation Council.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Just look at WoW. How many times has it seen Level increases?
This entire argument is fallacious.
WoW gets constant level cap increases because Blizzard are too idiotic to develop true post-leveling systems.
Star Trek Online is more like Guild Wars 2, where it has "specializations" or, in Guild Wars 2's case "masteries", that achieve the same effect as leveling up, i.e. in getting access to more powers, without actually having to up the level cap.
They have already said there wont be a level cap increase, and there is no other rank for us to achieve besides president of the Federation/Klingon High Chancellor, and both of those are single seat positions filled by story characters. Whats more, upping the level cap is entirely defeatist to the specialization system.
I don't think you realize what that word means. It is a fact that WoW has seen many level increases. That you feel it is "too idiotic" doesn't change that.
STO is far more like WoW. We have levels and specializations as they do. It is not like GW2. Our characters do not even begin dealing with specs until lvl50 and after we have picked our skills from the skills trees. We are defined by our role as Tac, Eng or Science and not by our specializations we pick to have active.
Additionally, nothing says that an increase in level has to result in an increase in rank. It could also spread horizontally. I could fly lvl61+ missions with two ships and make more use of my own Boffs by assigning them to a second or third ship and therefore actually command a fleet that my rank actually reflects. Start thinking outside the box...and before you say we can't, we already are allowed to call in ships and hanger pets. That they are around and don't fly out after a couple minutes is the only real change...so the mechanic is already in place.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
They can't even balance what we have. Adding more would just make the powercreep even worse. How about we stop worrying about where we go from here, and start worrying about how to fix the problems we have now? As much as I'd like to see more stuff added. I, by far, would prefer that they actually do something about the bugs and imbalances the game has.
The question here is simple. Are you, the consumer, going to continue to blindly let Cryptic continue to offer you a broken product?
Now I must go ponder why I asked that question. As long as they continue to produce pretty pewpew ships. No one is really going to care whether or not the game is broken.
Didn't say there wouldn't be another cap increase, just said 2018 is far too early for it & that I don't think its needed. I play every single day & have since I started playing the game, I don't have a single character that has filled all of their spec trees, hell I don't have a single character that has filled more than 1 spec tree, out of 16 characters. Frankly I think your fooling yourself about the need for another cap increase.
I wouldn't be surprised if they have already begun the work. Q3 or !4 of 2017 at the latest. They can't go any longer than that or the player base will suffer
Possibly. They are already scraping the bottom of the barrel with canon T6 ships now.
Just as a side-note, post TUC, (i.e TNG onward) we never even actually saw an Admiral with a five-pip bar in canon.
If we follow the logic a lot of people apply to the rank of Commodore, Starfleet must have obviously dropped the rank of 5-pip admiral
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
No 24th Century Fleet Admirals have been seen in canon, though we also haven't seen every flag officer in Starfleet nor does it focus on flag officers often. That's something a lot of people seem to overlook when they make their judgements.
On a side note; if they aren't increasing the level cap because of a lack of ranks, why didn't they cap the Klingons at 55? They got their last proper rank at that level, since Dahar Master is just a title (like how TNG seems to use Fleet Admiral).
Just as a side-note, post TUC, (i.e TNG onward) we never even actually saw an Admiral with a five-pip bar in canon.
If we follow the logic a lot of people apply to the rank of Commodore, Starfleet must have obviously dropped the rank of 5-pip admiral
Well. Obviously. By that point Starfleet is so small Vice Admirals can handle all of it. And who needs Commodores? By TNG some lonely one pip Admiral must have been rooting around an old book about how one small group of guys on Earth hundreds of years ago replaced the rank with RALH and decides Starfleet suddenly needs to do that.
On the plus side, he gets to be called Admiral without having to put any extra work in.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Are we on this rank structure again? Do we need to bring this up quarterly? Are we paralyzed in-game now because we are not sure who is charge of Starfleet?
Oy!!!
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
well we can always kick the can down the road so to speak. do a one time rettcon on the ranks. L 1-9 Cadet L 10-19 ens L 20-29 Ltjg L 30-39 Lt L40-49 Lcdr 50-59 Cdr 60 (and presumably thru 69) Capt. when needed start flag ranks with fleet captain, Commodore, rear admiral (lower) Rear Admiral, vice Admiral, Admiral all with a 10 level spread. that's good thru level 120
If you have comadore (as per canon) then you only need one rear admiral rank. There's also no rank of fleet captain in canon material. It's a title given to a captain.
Still, there's enough ranks to run from 0 to 100 by including them all.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Or maybe they'll just add another ten levels without adding a new rank
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
They added another 30 levels with AoY. That those thirty levels gave you new ways to do stuff instead of stacking big numbers on top of big numbers is a good thing...
If you have comadore (as per canon) then you only need one rear admiral rank. There's also no rank of fleet captain in canon material. It's a title given to a captain.
Still, there's enough ranks to run from 0 to 100 by including them all.
pretty sure Kirk took Enterprise from Pike when Pike was promoted to fleet captain. besides, there are no canon rear admirals upper or lower, nor vice admirals to the canon requirement is kinda moot.
Pike was ranked as Fleet Captain in The Menagerie.
There's only one reference to him as such though. All other material from his two episodes refers to him as captain, even in official purposes where his full rank would hypothetically be used.
I'm open to the idea of it (more so than the rear admiral nonsense anyway) but it is a one time TOS concept that dosn't really fit with the rank structure we've seen prior and after that single episode. Indeed, the point of fleet captains was to act as the captain of the flagship of a commodore (or higher), as Starfleet admirals can command their own ships as captians, it makes fleet captians redundant.
besides, there are no canon rear admirals upper or lower, nor vice admirals to the canon requirement is kinda moot.
There are very few RA (full 2 pip, there are no one pip RA, Quinn has zero pips), but there are some
As for VA. Almost every single admiral seen in the TNG and DS9 eras is a VA including Ross
There's almost as many admirals as there are VA.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I always considered "Fleet Captain" being a title of a captain commanding a group of ships. Usually that's what a Commodore is for, but maybe there were different circumstances. Like when Picard or Sisko get to be in charge of a whole taskforce/operation they don't get promoted to Commodore, they're probably Fleet Captains in that instance.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
>Implying there will be another level cap increase.
Yeah no, they already said there wont be, since theres no more ranks for us to achieve.
And specializations are the new leveling system.
I wouldn't put too much weight into that, sooner or later players will demand an increase. They won't necessarily demand paying $35 for a ship though... but it will be complicated and may need some thinking through apart from the naming issue (which could be resolved by either creating fantasy rank names or a mass demotion of Fleet Admirals back to captain, with the other ranks getting deflated accordingly), since many of the systems in place are clearly designed with 60 as "top cap" in mind. Changing them can also lead to a similar situation as with the 60 increase with those players who've hit the wall already being in a more difficult position to rank up and use the new content than those who come to 60 freshly.
It won't be a mass demotion though, because in terms of the storyline... you are the only Captain. The most sensible thing to do when implementing a new structure for levelling and ranking, is basically have a feature episode where you get Kirk'ed. Your character becomes embroiled in a major interstellar diplomatic incident and is wrongly convicted. Starfleet knows the truth and "punishes" you at face value by merely demoting you to Captain... and then you begin to level again in the new system.
Comments
You are only fooling yourself. Players said the same before they rolled in lvl60 and T6 ships and "Oh, by the way..that full set of Oddy cruisers you bought for $50? They are T5u; now buy these new fancy T6s we made"
They can't leave it at 60. The game will stagnate, even with new content. My main is already near the cap on about everything, heck even my Boffs have MkXIV rep gear, making them better equipped than many captains out there. I play new content for fun, but I'm not improving my captain.
Sooner than later, more and more captains will reach the same realization and Cryptic will either find a way to make it work or lose customers. Just look at WoW. How many times has it seen Level increases?
He's not. There are other Fleet Admirals in the game. Also, it's Starfleet, not a military navy, who says 5 is the highest the pips go to?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
You're wrong about the names of all of those in the Joint Chiefs. They have normal ranks, and are not part of the operational chain of command. They serve as an advisory panel to the President and Secretary of Defense. They are the senior uniformed leaders of each branch, but don't necessarily have a higher rank than other flag or general officers. The current Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is a 4 star Marine Corps General. The Chairman is only awarded a 5th star if there is an active 5 star officer that would be beneath him, so that said subordinate did not outrank the Chairman. The representatives of each branch have a special title, alongside their ranks, to denote their positions. Joint Chiefs of Staff website.
I wouldn't be surprised if they have already begun the work. Q3 or !4 of 2017 at the latest. They can't go any longer than that or the player base will suffer
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Starfleet
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I don't think you realize what that word means. It is a fact that WoW has seen many level increases. That you feel it is "too idiotic" doesn't change that.
STO is far more like WoW. We have levels and specializations as they do. It is not like GW2. Our characters do not even begin dealing with specs until lvl50 and after we have picked our skills from the skills trees. We are defined by our role as Tac, Eng or Science and not by our specializations we pick to have active.
Additionally, nothing says that an increase in level has to result in an increase in rank. It could also spread horizontally. I could fly lvl61+ missions with two ships and make more use of my own Boffs by assigning them to a second or third ship and therefore actually command a fleet that my rank actually reflects. Start thinking outside the box...and before you say we can't, we already are allowed to call in ships and hanger pets. That they are around and don't fly out after a couple minutes is the only real change...so the mechanic is already in place.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Commander,_Starfleet
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The question here is simple. Are you, the consumer, going to continue to blindly let Cryptic continue to offer you a broken product?
Now I must go ponder why I asked that question. As long as they continue to produce pretty pewpew ships. No one is really going to care whether or not the game is broken.
Possibly. They are already scraping the bottom of the barrel with canon T6 ships now.
If we follow the logic a lot of people apply to the rank of Commodore, Starfleet must have obviously dropped the rank of 5-pip admiral
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
On a side note; if they aren't increasing the level cap because of a lack of ranks, why didn't they cap the Klingons at 55? They got their last proper rank at that level, since Dahar Master is just a title (like how TNG seems to use Fleet Admiral).
Well. Obviously. By that point Starfleet is so small Vice Admirals can handle all of it. And who needs Commodores? By TNG some lonely one pip Admiral must have been rooting around an old book about how one small group of guys on Earth hundreds of years ago replaced the rank with RALH and decides Starfleet suddenly needs to do that.
On the plus side, he gets to be called Admiral without having to put any extra work in.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Oy!!!
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Still, there's enough ranks to run from 0 to 100 by including them all.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
pretty sure Kirk took Enterprise from Pike when Pike was promoted to fleet captain. besides, there are no canon rear admirals upper or lower, nor vice admirals to the canon requirement is kinda moot.
There's only one reference to him as such though. All other material from his two episodes refers to him as captain, even in official purposes where his full rank would hypothetically be used.
I'm open to the idea of it (more so than the rear admiral nonsense anyway) but it is a one time TOS concept that dosn't really fit with the rank structure we've seen prior and after that single episode. Indeed, the point of fleet captains was to act as the captain of the flagship of a commodore (or higher), as Starfleet admirals can command their own ships as captians, it makes fleet captians redundant.
There are very few RA (full 2 pip, there are no one pip RA, Quinn has zero pips), but there are some
As for VA. Almost every single admiral seen in the TNG and DS9 eras is a VA including Ross
There's almost as many admirals as there are VA.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
It won't be a mass demotion though, because in terms of the storyline... you are the only Captain. The most sensible thing to do when implementing a new structure for levelling and ranking, is basically have a feature episode where you get Kirk'ed. Your character becomes embroiled in a major interstellar diplomatic incident and is wrongly convicted. Starfleet knows the truth and "punishes" you at face value by merely demoting you to Captain... and then you begin to level again in the new system.
The rank system is rather nonsensical, that goes without saying, however.
e