Besides, The insane damage numbers and DPS in CCA isn't a really good indicator as its an incredibly ideal situation for EPG boats.
Entity is vulnerable to Kinetic damage and the map is "extremely" target rich.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
The more you talk about epg being good, the more likely it'll get nerfed... haven't you guys learnt anything from the nerfhammer sessions inflicted on the phased quantum, ect?
Remember... Gw got nerfed as it could get good numbers....
The more you talk about epg being good, the more likely it'll get nerfed... haven't you guys learnt anything from the nerfhammer sessions inflicted on the phased quantum, ect?
Remember... Gw got nerfed as it could get good numbers....
So where's the BFAW nerf? people keep talking about it more than anything!
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
The more you talk about epg being good, the more likely it'll get nerfed... haven't you guys learnt anything from the nerfhammer sessions inflicted on the phased quantum, ect?
Remember... Gw got nerfed as it could get good numbers....
So where's the BFAW nerf? people keep talking about it more than anything!
I'd like to know too... but its a teflon power... if they ever nerfed faw, it'd kill sto as its such a core of the space game
Dont look at me, I swear by temporal cheese now, and I'm throwing all manners of anomalies as well as BFAW for days at you! And the anomalies chase you, too!!
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
The more you talk about epg being good, the more likely it'll get nerfed... haven't you guys learnt anything from the nerfhammer sessions inflicted on the phased quantum, ect?
Remember... Gw got nerfed as it could get good numbers....
So where's the BFAW nerf? people keep talking about it more than anything!
I'd like to know too... but its a teflon power... if they ever nerfed faw, it'd kill sto as its such a core of the space game
I find that extremely unlikely. You can still build quite formidable high DPS ships without FAW and EPG.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
The thread in your link is old. In order to be more accurate you should also link feli’s reply to your highlighted post.
Sci powers are good again, yea. Still we have not arrived at a point where they have become too good or anything. [/quote]
i think you missed my point. the OP said that using science powers was a "new style" of play. i mentioned that it wasn't new at all, and linked to an old post to show ot wasn't new.
[quote="burstorion;13043960"] I'd like to know too... but its a teflon power... if they ever nerfed faw, it'd kill sto as its such a core of the space game[/quote] not at all. bfaw could be changed to a power that heals enemies and it wouldn't kill the game.
top players would adapt in a day or two. the rest would copy them a week later. people would complain about it for a few months. life and sto would go on as normal.
EPG has been good since before the reps have come in to play. It was actually a major part of the old Borg stf tactics, especially in the elites. There use to be a semi-trinity back then that was awesome.
1 Cruiser to tank
2-3 Escorts for damage
1-2 Sci for crowd control
Now it doesn't matter much. It's all pewpew die, whether it's beam cannon, or epg. While it is good now. It was good back then with the right space build. But back then it actually had a different use other than another pewpew die ship.
EPG has been good since before the reps have come in to play. It was actually a major part of the old Borg stf tactics, especially in the elites. There use to be a semi-trinity back then that was awesome.
1 Cruiser to tank
2-3 Escorts for damage
1-2 Sci for crowd control
Now it doesn't matter much. It's all pewpew die, whether it's beam cannon, or epg. While it is good now. It was good back then with the right space build. But back then it actually had a different use other than another pewpew die ship.
I think the old Borg STFs didn't rely on EPG, and more on the Graviton Generators (nowadays Control Expertise). By locking enemy ships in place with Gravity Wells, they couldn't heal the nanite whatevers in Infected, and couldn't reach the Time Gate in the other Borg STF, or couldn't reach the Carrier in the third Borg STF.
Gravity Well at some point really became one of the most useful science powers. Reverse-Pushing Tractor Beam Repulsors thanks the DOFf being the other neat one.
Other offensive science powers fared worse. But I still remember the glorious days of the Charged Particle Burst/Tachyon Beam/Photonic Shockwave/Tri-Cobalt Bombers. Okay, that was mostly a PvP thing, because players ran around with heavy shield damage reduction that helped instead of bag of hit points like NPCs.
Though I wonder if the recent CPB/TB buffs wouldn't make this more viable again. Except that it's more a single target build, and we don't need that in PvE.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
EPG has been good since before the reps have come in to play. It was actually a major part of the old Borg stf tactics, especially in the elites. There use to be a semi-trinity back then that was awesome.
1 Cruiser to tank
2-3 Escorts for damage
1-2 Sci for crowd control
Now it doesn't matter much. It's all pewpew die, whether it's beam cannon, or epg. While it is good now. It was good back then with the right space build. But back then it actually had a different use other than another pewpew die ship.
I think the old Borg STFs didn't rely on EPG, and more on the Graviton Generators (nowadays Control Expertise). By locking enemy ships in place with Gravity Wells, they couldn't heal the nanite whatevers in Infected, and couldn't reach the Time Gate in the other Borg STF, or couldn't reach the Carrier in the third Borg STF.
Gravity Well at some point really became one of the most useful science powers. Reverse-Pushing Tractor Beam Repulsors thanks the DOFf being the other neat one.
Other offensive science powers fared worse. But I still remember the glorious days of the Charged Particle Burst/Tachyon Beam/Photonic Shockwave/Tri-Cobalt Bombers. Okay, that was mostly a PvP thing, because players ran around with heavy shield damage reduction that helped instead of bag of hit points like NPCs.
Though I wonder if the recent CPB/TB buffs wouldn't make this more viable again. Except that it's more a single target build, and we don't need that in PvE.
It might be. It's worthy of testing at least. But I was just point out that we use to have a degree of separation in what ships and captains one was happy to see in a STF. I still have my Alien Gen Fed Sci Captain, a romulan before romulans were a playable faction. I should still have my boff and gear setup on it for the old Borg Elites, this includes tanking the boss in The Cure Applied.
I am glad to see Sci making a come back here. Perhaps this is the start of returning to the older teamwork style STFs from back then. Also hope we start seeing more separation in ships. Now if we could get them to bump the cannon boff skills down a rank we would start seeing more escorts. Given how things have changed. Either B:FAW needs the same rank structure as cannons, LT-Com, instead of En-LTC, or Rapid Fire needs to drop to En-LTC, leaving Scatter at the LT-Com level.
Also since Subspace Vortex I is an En level ability, hence why you see Mk II Deflectors with EPG on them, to be sold at the Boff trainer. I was going to use it on my KDF sci captain. But the Boff Trainer on Qo'nos doesn't offer it.
The main thing that comes to mind here are, the Reps. Which I'm sure all have noticed, each one takes after a particular damage type. Which make you wonder, the 9 that we have pretty much cover all the damage types, except physical. So is the next rep going to be based around that? As all reps have a torpedo, which covered kinetic.
Dude.. GW ... u need it maybe twice in ISA for example .. and srsly.. if u wanna go fulldmg with exotic stuff.. u can spam a lot of TRIBBLE which has lower cds like entropic redestribution which hits ultra hard.. resonance beam maybe twice with gw for the aoe..
there are a lot of ways u can spam everything possible
Entropic Redistribution isn't really that spammable. For it to hit hard, you need to stack up with Entropy and that takes time. Without Entropy, you'll get bigger numbers from single torp shots.
Dude.. GW ... u need it maybe twice in ISA for example .. and srsly.. if u wanna go fulldmg with exotic stuff.. u can spam a lot of **** which has lower cds like entropic redestribution which hits ultra hard.. resonance beam maybe twice with gw for the aoe..
there are a lot of ways u can spam everything possible
So...The vast majority of Sci ships in this game to not have access to the temporal abilities your referring to.So cooldowns are still an issue for those.
But you have already made my point..GW, DRB and SSV are only available...maybe twice in an ISA.All have substantial cooldowns especially when compared with Faw which I belive @reyan01 was trying to say.
The more you talk about epg being good, the more likely it'll get nerfed... haven't you guys learnt anything from the nerfhammer sessions inflicted on the phased quantum, ect?
Remember... Gw got nerfed as it could get good numbers....
Sad but true.
I get the sense that Borticus and Spartan are pretty aware of what science can do right now, so if it is going to get adjusted I think our input on the forums will have very little to do with any changes they are considering. Those two, from what I've heard, were very involved in the creation of a lot of the temporal stuff that is now in the game. And seem to be openly and actively communicating with the players about what came out of all this.
[Gefecht (allein)] Ihre Entropische Neuverteilung III fügt 93051 (48293) Physischer Schaden(Critical) bei TRIBBLE zu.
Sorry i have the german client but that was an ESD 1v1 and a regular hit of my entropic redestribution 3..
I did that every 15 seconds and this guy was on an engineering toon, on command cruiser, fulltank.
you can imagine that the numbers raise against non-tanks..
[Gefecht (allein)] Ihre Entropische Neuverteilung III fügt 93051 (48293) Physischer Schaden(Critical) bei **** zu.
Sorry i have the german client but that was an ESD 1v1 and a regular hit of my entropic redestribution 3..
I did that every 15 seconds and this guy was on an engineering toon, on command cruiser, fulltank.
you can imagine that the numbers raise against non-tanks..
What's the same data when used against a Borg Tactical Cube or Voth Boss (with that Voth being the kind of target you do have to cook inside their shields)?
The more you talk about epg being good, the more likely it'll get nerfed... haven't you guys learnt anything from the nerfhammer sessions inflicted on the phased quantum, ect?
Remember... Gw got nerfed as it could get good numbers....
Sad but true.
I get the sense that Borticus and Spartan are pretty aware of what science can do right now, so if it is going to get adjusted I think our input on the forums will have very little to do with any changes they are considering. Those two, from what I've heard, were very involved in the creation of a lot of the temporal stuff that is now in the game. And seem to be openly and actively communicating with the players about what came out of all this.
I think they're not only aware of what EPG can do, I think it's completely intentional. Many of us (including me) have been clamoring for years to bring Science on par with Tactical. EPG was their way of addressing the disparity between the two fields.
I can only hope EPG becomes even more viable and even deadlier as to give Cryptic more incentive to crank out more Science ships (particularly for Rom/KDF) as to take full advantage of the EPG meta.
i did an ISA now but i have only the chat combatlog.. i copy some lines
[Gefecht (allein)] Ihre Entropische Neuverteilung III fügt 248588 (55593) Physischer Schaden(Critical) bei Taktischer Kubus zu.
-entropic redestribution 3 on tactical cube
[Gefecht (allein)] Ihre Entropische Neuverteilung III fügt 152347 (38197) Physischer Schaden(Critical) bei Taktischer Kubus zu.
-same 15 seconds later
[Gefecht (allein)] Ihre Entropische Neuverteilung III fügt 152488 (33386) Physischer Schaden bei Taktischer Kubus zu.
-same 15 seconds later
[Gefecht (allein)] Ihre Schneller Verfall III fügt 70844 (15843) Physischer Schaden(Critical) bei Taktischer Kubus zu.
-rapid decay 3 on tac cube .. the dot ticks 5 times..
and dont foget to add all other sci spam abilties which i dont want to add here..
[Gefecht (allein)] Ihre Entropische Neuverteilung III fügt 93051 (48293) Physischer Schaden(Critical) bei **** zu.
Sorry i have the german client but that was an ESD 1v1 and a regular hit of my entropic redestribution 3..
I did that every 15 seconds and this guy was on an engineering toon, on command cruiser, fulltank.
you can imagine that the numbers raise against non-tanks..
A PVP 1-on-1 match does not equate with what is happening in a PVE mission, or in any other PVP matches for that matter.
Some of the temporal abilities are pretty devastating but there's only a handful of ships able to use them. If they really are overpowered i dare say they'll get fixed at some point.
Tac abilities still hold the vast majority of the DPS records and they always will, so any improvement to science trickery is always going to be welcome. And there are so many ships spamming BFAW and melting the whole map in seconds that to complain about a minority who've mastered using exotics doing similar damage is laughable.
The balance is skewed strongly in favour of beam-spam and has been for a long time, only now there are actually some viable alternatives, but they take time and resources to really master.
ofc bfaw is holding the dps record but in pvp are that single target skills way too powerful .. and yea for now there arent many ships which are able to use those stuff.. but in pvp its not different than pve .. instead of 200k+ u do 80k+ hits every 15 seconds on hull .. pick up some friends who use the same build and go in as 5 people attacking one with 5x 80k+ physical hits.. insane debuffs (rapid decay -75 res, sensorscan -65 res) with your friends everything x5... even if you fight 5v5 premade.. noone can protect someone or theirself against those stuff
Comments
Entity is vulnerable to Kinetic damage and the map is "extremely" target rich.
Remember... Gw got nerfed as it could get good numbers....
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Nah, space magic is fun... even if it does not do as much DPS as more "traditional" builds and probably cost just as much to build or more.
So where's the BFAW nerf? people keep talking about it more than anything!
I'd like to know too... but its a teflon power... if they ever nerfed faw, it'd kill sto as its such a core of the space game
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I find that extremely unlikely. You can still build quite formidable high DPS ships without FAW and EPG.
The thread in your link is old. In order to be more accurate you should also link feli’s reply to your highlighted post.
Sci powers are good again, yea. Still we have not arrived at a point where they have become too good or anything.
[/quote]
i think you missed my point. the OP said that using science powers was a "new style" of play. i mentioned that it wasn't new at all, and linked to an old post to show ot wasn't new.
I'd like to know too... but its a teflon power... if they ever nerfed faw, it'd kill sto as its such a core of the space game[/quote]
not at all. bfaw could be changed to a power that heals enemies and it wouldn't kill the game.
top players would adapt in a day or two. the rest would copy them a week later. people would complain about it for a few months. life and sto would go on as normal.
1 Cruiser to tank
2-3 Escorts for damage
1-2 Sci for crowd control
Now it doesn't matter much. It's all pewpew die, whether it's beam cannon, or epg. While it is good now. It was good back then with the right space build. But back then it actually had a different use other than another pewpew die ship.
Gravity Well at some point really became one of the most useful science powers. Reverse-Pushing Tractor Beam Repulsors thanks the DOFf being the other neat one.
Other offensive science powers fared worse. But I still remember the glorious days of the Charged Particle Burst/Tachyon Beam/Photonic Shockwave/Tri-Cobalt Bombers. Okay, that was mostly a PvP thing, because players ran around with heavy shield damage reduction that helped instead of bag of hit points like NPCs.
Though I wonder if the recent CPB/TB buffs wouldn't make this more viable again. Except that it's more a single target build, and we don't need that in PvE.
Someone with a Science Build does a good attack then goes into a 45 second cooldown, people lose their freakin' minds.
It might be. It's worthy of testing at least. But I was just point out that we use to have a degree of separation in what ships and captains one was happy to see in a STF. I still have my Alien Gen Fed Sci Captain, a romulan before romulans were a playable faction. I should still have my boff and gear setup on it for the old Borg Elites, this includes tanking the boss in The Cure Applied.
I am glad to see Sci making a come back here. Perhaps this is the start of returning to the older teamwork style STFs from back then. Also hope we start seeing more separation in ships. Now if we could get them to bump the cannon boff skills down a rank we would start seeing more escorts. Given how things have changed. Either B:FAW needs the same rank structure as cannons, LT-Com, instead of En-LTC, or Rapid Fire needs to drop to En-LTC, leaving Scatter at the LT-Com level.
Also since Subspace Vortex I is an En level ability, hence why you see Mk II Deflectors with EPG on them, to be sold at the Boff trainer. I was going to use it on my KDF sci captain. But the Boff Trainer on Qo'nos doesn't offer it.
The main thing that comes to mind here are, the Reps. Which I'm sure all have noticed, each one takes after a particular damage type. Which make you wonder, the 9 that we have pretty much cover all the damage types, except physical. So is the next rep going to be based around that? As all reps have a torpedo, which covered kinetic.
GW duplicate cooldown is 40 seconds..Granted...If I use Tif..But 40 seconds is its global minimum..
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
there are a lot of ways u can spam everything possible
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The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
So...The vast majority of Sci ships in this game to not have access to the temporal abilities your referring to.So cooldowns are still an issue for those.
But you have already made my point..GW, DRB and SSV are only available...maybe twice in an ISA.All have substantial cooldowns especially when compared with Faw which I belive @reyan01 was trying to say.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
Exotic Particle Generation
I get the sense that Borticus and Spartan are pretty aware of what science can do right now, so if it is going to get adjusted I think our input on the forums will have very little to do with any changes they are considering. Those two, from what I've heard, were very involved in the creation of a lot of the temporal stuff that is now in the game. And seem to be openly and actively communicating with the players about what came out of all this.
Sorry i have the german client but that was an ESD 1v1 and a regular hit of my entropic redestribution 3..
I did that every 15 seconds and this guy was on an engineering toon, on command cruiser, fulltank.
you can imagine that the numbers raise against non-tanks..
What's the same data when used against a Borg Tactical Cube or Voth Boss (with that Voth being the kind of target you do have to cook inside their shields)?
and shields doesnt matter vs that stuff..
I'm not sure that's how it works going from PVP to PVE.
Have you no PVE parses?
I think they're not only aware of what EPG can do, I think it's completely intentional. Many of us (including me) have been clamoring for years to bring Science on par with Tactical. EPG was their way of addressing the disparity between the two fields.
I can only hope EPG becomes even more viable and even deadlier as to give Cryptic more incentive to crank out more Science ships (particularly for Rom/KDF) as to take full advantage of the EPG meta.
[Gefecht (allein)] Ihre Entropische Neuverteilung III fügt 248588 (55593) Physischer Schaden(Critical) bei Taktischer Kubus zu.
-entropic redestribution 3 on tactical cube
[Gefecht (allein)] Ihre Entropische Neuverteilung III fügt 152347 (38197) Physischer Schaden(Critical) bei Taktischer Kubus zu.
-same 15 seconds later
[Gefecht (allein)] Ihre Entropische Neuverteilung III fügt 152488 (33386) Physischer Schaden bei Taktischer Kubus zu.
-same 15 seconds later
[Gefecht (allein)] Ihre Schneller Verfall III fügt 70844 (15843) Physischer Schaden(Critical) bei Taktischer Kubus zu.
-rapid decay 3 on tac cube .. the dot ticks 5 times..
and dont foget to add all other sci spam abilties which i dont want to add here..
A PVP 1-on-1 match does not equate with what is happening in a PVE mission, or in any other PVP matches for that matter.
Some of the temporal abilities are pretty devastating but there's only a handful of ships able to use them. If they really are overpowered i dare say they'll get fixed at some point.
Tac abilities still hold the vast majority of the DPS records and they always will, so any improvement to science trickery is always going to be welcome. And there are so many ships spamming BFAW and melting the whole map in seconds that to complain about a minority who've mastered using exotics doing similar damage is laughable.
The balance is skewed strongly in favour of beam-spam and has been for a long time, only now there are actually some viable alternatives, but they take time and resources to really master.