TV or the films. Presumably the latest version of those superceades the earlier versions.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Other interesting note, I don't think the movie mentioned it was "Borgified". So going by this, it was just a insane looking mining ship. That does not match normal Romulan type builds.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
What if they came out with an Extended Edition Blue Ray that had the cut scenes added to the movie, would it then be Canon? .
Yes. And if the next Captain of the Enterprise is a Humpback Whale married to a Dolphin, that woud be canon, too. That's how it works.
There can be a lot of scenes and stuff lying around on the floor somewhere, but - if it wasn't shown, it could be contradicted at any point, and it's not wise to rely on the information.
---
25 years seems a long time. I have no doubts that he Klingon would have reverse engineered a lot. But there are other possibilities. As I understand it, the Captain of the Narada wanted to exact vengeance on Spock. But "his" Spock hadn't arrived yet. So he needed to wait for his return, to ensure Spock would see Vulcan destroyed. Also we can assume that the Narada was severely damaged, as the Kelvin crashed into it.
He could have spend any of those 25 years in Klingon prison, if "need" arises, and he might have it done with or without his ship. (Maybe he was on an the equivalent of away mission to secure intel or material for the ship, and was captured by the Klingons - and the 47 Klingon ships destroyed in a fight against the Narada was just his crew sprining him from prison.
If the Klingons had the Narada for 25 years, it could be that they were busy reverse engineering it. I like the theory that the state of Praxis in the second movie could indicate that the mining accident happened earlier - possibly due to the technology advances provided by the mining vessel. (The tech might be more effective, but Klingon mining safety regulations aren't any better). But while the advanced tech meant a loss of Praxis sooner, it could also mean the Klingons have the tech to better adapt to the new situation, and can still sustain themselves (which they couldn't in the Prime Timeline, they needed help.) But it weakens their technology progress and maybe more importantly their industrial production, meaning they are not afar ahead as they would have been without the Praxis accident, giving the Federation a chance to catch up.
I guess the only losers in this entire timeline are really the Romulans - it seems no one visited them to give them gifts of the future. Unless the Tal'Shiar is very effective in industrial espionage. (Which, honestly, we haven't really seen much examples of in Star Trek. The Obsidian Order, supposedly highly effective, seemed incapable to match Federation technology advancement - a few years after the Cardassian-Federation war, a Nebula Class ship was apparently already superior to anything they had protecting their borders)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Well, it occurs to me as ironic that the Klingons held the Nadara and her crew for 25 years and, since there is no evidence to the contrary, learnt almost nothing.
Well, Admiral Marcus was worried about a possible Klingon war - if Fed tech had advanced decades (or possibly even a century), he shouldn't be that worried.
I consider this at least an indication that the Klingons aren't technologically far behind.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Well, it occurs to me as ironic that the Klingons held the Nadara and her crew for 25 years and, since there is no evidence to the contrary, learnt almost nothing.
Well, Admiral Marcus was worried about a possible Klingon war - if Fed tech had advanced decades (or possibly even a century), he shouldn't be that worried.
I consider this at least an indication that the Klingons aren't technologically far behind.
True - although, does the possibility that the KT-KDF simply have a far greater number of ships exist?
Well, for what reason?
In the Prime Timeline, a Klingon War basically started in Kirk's first 5 year mission, but was stopped by the Organians*. It didn't apear to me as if the Federation was extremely worried about being outnumbered then, so why should they be in the Kelvin Timeline, unless something about Klingon war production has changed due to the incident?
*) One of the few loose threads still unmilked by Cryptic. What's up with that?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Nero If the movies does not invalidate (contradict what a source say) this "book" source (and a cut scene more or less support the said book source) then it can be considered part of Canon.
There are two major problems:
Agreed - where point 2 is concerned there are numerous examples of this. Speaking in non-STO terms, we never saw Transphasic torpedoes post-Voyager and it doesn't appear that any other ships were equipped with Ablative Armour generators.
Saying that, I guess it's just as well - the battle between the Enterprise-E and the Scimitar would probably have been rather short, in favour of the Enterprise, if the Enterprise had used that tech.
We did know that those tech pieces were "future" tech and We know the Federation, or Starfleet itself, has a Temporal Department/Agency.
So in alt timeline Klingons capture the Nerada and its crew and hold them for 25 years until Nero magically escapes. If they had thet future tech for 25 years should the Klink Empire be a super power? Side note in normal timeline Star Trek 6 the Klingons exhaust there resources giving their fleet 50 years of life. Thus they had a peace treaty with the Federation. I'm assuming in the alt timeline same thing happens especially with the Nerada in their possesion. So maybe a story for the next movies? Or is this a plot hole?
I guess you really didn't pay attention to Undiscovered Country. 1) The Empire DID NOT EXHAUST IT'S RESOURCES. The reason they couldn't cope with the disaster was they had built a military based empire and those needs had priority over everything else. Historical examples : The U.S. in WW2 everything not directly military related was put on hold and rationing took place to feed the war effort. The U.S.S.R. in both WW2 and Post WW2 where again military expenditure took priority over everything else.
2) The explosion was from using mining techniques aimed at maximizing yield over safety not because the resources were depleted.
3) The explosion ripped away most of Qounos's amtmosphere and laid waste to it's eco system so much so the the eco system could not regenrate enough oxygen to sustain the populace.
4) Praxis was the major source of dilithium due to it being IN the Homeworld system and therefore it was faster to send the dilithium directly to the shipyards and drydocks instead of waiting weeks perhaps for that to come in from out system.
5) IT WAS THE LOSS OF OXYGEN THAT WAS RIPPED AWAY BY PRAXIS EXPLODING NOT FROM DEPLETING RESOURCES THAT GAVE A 50 YEAR COUNTDOWN TO THE FALL OF THE EMPIRE AS WE KNOW IT!
6) It wasn't the Klingon fleet that had 50 years left but Qounos being able to sustain life.
GO WATCH THE FILM AGAIN AND PAY ATTENTION!
Yeah love the comments on Kligon engineering. Go watch Voyage home. guess what they used to travel back ward then forward in time with? A KLINGON TINY BIRD OF PREY! It was only the worn out crystals that gave issues. Kruge was pretty far down the supply chain.
Well, it occurs to me as ironic that the Klingons held the Nadara and her crew for 25 years and, since there is no evidence to the contrary, learnt almost nothing. Starfleet (the USS Kelvin) encountered the Nadara in one, relatively brief, engagement when it first appeared and obtained sufficent data on it that Starfleet subsequently idenitifed a need to adopt a more combat-orientated approach to ship building.
starfleet has good scanning equipment; the klingons don't
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Nero If the movies does not invalidate (contradict what a source say) this "book" source (and a cut scene more or less support the said book source) then it can be considered part of Canon.
No it can't. As good as 'Nero' and 'Countdown' are they are not canon. It's dosn't matter if there are any contradictions or not, the books and comics are not, and are unlikely to ever be, canon.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Well, it occurs to me as ironic that the Klingons held the Nadara and her crew for 25 years and, since there is no evidence to the contrary, learnt almost nothing. Starfleet (the USS Kelvin) encountered the Nadara in one, relatively brief, engagement when it first appeared and obtained sufficent data on it that Starfleet subsequently idenitifed a need to adopt a more combat-orientated approach to ship building.
starfleet has good scanning equipment; the klingons don't
Well I wouldn't go that far Klingon Tech is geared for finding the best way to attack not to research. Kind of like using a microwave length radar to look at bacteria instead of a microscope not so good... Specilaized gear is great for it's design intent but not so great when applied elsewhere. Kind of like trying to make a Bentley into a La Ferrari yeah it may go fast and kind of corner but would you want to race it on a full blown road course? Likewise You are the CEO of a company and wnat to take your board of directors on a drive. You wouldn't take a La Ferrari as theres no bar in it...
I guess the only losers in this entire timeline are really the Romulans - it seems no one visited them to give them gifts of the future. Unless the Tal'Shiar is very effective in industrial espionage. (Which, honestly, we haven't really seen much examples of in Star Trek. The Obsidian Order, supposedly highly effective, seemed incapable to match Federation technology advancement - a few years after the Cardassian-Federation war, a Nebula Class ship was apparently already superior to anything they had protecting their borders)
Have you seen Enterprise? Judging from the Nemesis era uniforms and the advanced looking T'Varos it seems the Future Romulans were feeding tech back to the past as part of the Temporal Cold War.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Nero If the movies does not invalidate (contradict what a source say) this "book" source (and a cut scene more or less support the said book source) then it can be considered part of Canon.
No it can't. As good as 'Nero' and 'Countdown' are they are not canon. It's dosn't matter if there are any contradictions or not, the books and comics are not, and are unlikely to ever be, canon.
Not canon and, in my opinion, rather silly and fanboyish.
I liked them until the appearance of V'Ger.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Oh, wait, that's in STO.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
There can be a lot of scenes and stuff lying around on the floor somewhere, but - if it wasn't shown, it could be contradicted at any point, and it's not wise to rely on the information.
---
25 years seems a long time. I have no doubts that he Klingon would have reverse engineered a lot. But there are other possibilities. As I understand it, the Captain of the Narada wanted to exact vengeance on Spock. But "his" Spock hadn't arrived yet. So he needed to wait for his return, to ensure Spock would see Vulcan destroyed. Also we can assume that the Narada was severely damaged, as the Kelvin crashed into it.
He could have spend any of those 25 years in Klingon prison, if "need" arises, and he might have it done with or without his ship. (Maybe he was on an the equivalent of away mission to secure intel or material for the ship, and was captured by the Klingons - and the 47 Klingon ships destroyed in a fight against the Narada was just his crew sprining him from prison.
If the Klingons had the Narada for 25 years, it could be that they were busy reverse engineering it. I like the theory that the state of Praxis in the second movie could indicate that the mining accident happened earlier - possibly due to the technology advances provided by the mining vessel. (The tech might be more effective, but Klingon mining safety regulations aren't any better). But while the advanced tech meant a loss of Praxis sooner, it could also mean the Klingons have the tech to better adapt to the new situation, and can still sustain themselves (which they couldn't in the Prime Timeline, they needed help.) But it weakens their technology progress and maybe more importantly their industrial production, meaning they are not afar ahead as they would have been without the Praxis accident, giving the Federation a chance to catch up.
I guess the only losers in this entire timeline are really the Romulans - it seems no one visited them to give them gifts of the future. Unless the Tal'Shiar is very effective in industrial espionage. (Which, honestly, we haven't really seen much examples of in Star Trek. The Obsidian Order, supposedly highly effective, seemed incapable to match Federation technology advancement - a few years after the Cardassian-Federation war, a Nebula Class ship was apparently already superior to anything they had protecting their borders)
Well, Admiral Marcus was worried about a possible Klingon war - if Fed tech had advanced decades (or possibly even a century), he shouldn't be that worried.
I consider this at least an indication that the Klingons aren't technologically far behind.
Well, for what reason?
In the Prime Timeline, a Klingon War basically started in Kirk's first 5 year mission, but was stopped by the Organians*. It didn't apear to me as if the Federation was extremely worried about being outnumbered then, so why should they be in the Kelvin Timeline, unless something about Klingon war production has changed due to the incident?
*) One of the few loose threads still unmilked by Cryptic. What's up with that?
I guess you really didn't pay attention to Undiscovered Country. 1) The Empire DID NOT EXHAUST IT'S RESOURCES. The reason they couldn't cope with the disaster was they had built a military based empire and those needs had priority over everything else. Historical examples : The U.S. in WW2 everything not directly military related was put on hold and rationing took place to feed the war effort. The U.S.S.R. in both WW2 and Post WW2 where again military expenditure took priority over everything else.
2) The explosion was from using mining techniques aimed at maximizing yield over safety not because the resources were depleted.
3) The explosion ripped away most of Qounos's amtmosphere and laid waste to it's eco system so much so the the eco system could not regenrate enough oxygen to sustain the populace.
4) Praxis was the major source of dilithium due to it being IN the Homeworld system and therefore it was faster to send the dilithium directly to the shipyards and drydocks instead of waiting weeks perhaps for that to come in from out system.
5) IT WAS THE LOSS OF OXYGEN THAT WAS RIPPED AWAY BY PRAXIS EXPLODING NOT FROM DEPLETING RESOURCES THAT GAVE A 50 YEAR COUNTDOWN TO THE FALL OF THE EMPIRE AS WE KNOW IT!
6) It wasn't the Klingon fleet that had 50 years left but Qounos being able to sustain life.
GO WATCH THE FILM AGAIN AND PAY ATTENTION!
starfleet has good scanning equipment; the klingons don't
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
No it can't. As good as 'Nero' and 'Countdown' are they are not canon. It's dosn't matter if there are any contradictions or not, the books and comics are not, and are unlikely to ever be, canon.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Have you seen Enterprise? Judging from the Nemesis era uniforms and the advanced looking T'Varos it seems the Future Romulans were feeding tech back to the past as part of the Temporal Cold War.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I liked them until the appearance of V'Ger.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!