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Sex and Gender in STO

lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
I think that this is a discussion that we should have.

If one wants a trans M2F or F2M they can just select that end result gender, and add that they used to be the opposite gender in their bio.

But there should Intersex choice for humans as well.

And for Andorians there should be all four Andorian sexes.

For Rigelians they should have access to all 5 Rigelian sexes.

For Gorn, Leathens, and Nasicaans should have females.

Sexual Orientations can be covered in your bios, not just human ones, but also including alien ones, like people who are attracted to Hortas.
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Comments

  • pweistheworstpweistheworst Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    This isn't the first time this discussion has popped up in the forums and I'm sure it won't be the last.

    Honestly, there is a simple way for the devs to make everyone happy ... unlock all the character-related fields for each character so the user can select any species and make it male, female, or "custom" and unlock the tailor so that all possible appearance choices are available.

    In short, don't lock players into a preset appearance, gender or sex.

    That way people can create a heterosexual male human wearing traditionally male clothing, a trans male Vulcan wearing traditionally female clothing, a female Gorn wearing a traditionally male KDF warrior uniform ... whatever.

    This allows every player to make their own choices about the character that represents them in the game.

    IDIC rocks.
    In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."

    Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    I'M READY EITHER WAY...

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    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
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  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    lordgyor wrote: »
    I think that this is a discussion that we should have.

    If one wants a trans M2F or F2M they can just select that end result gender, and add that they used to be the opposite gender in their bio.

    But there should Intersex choice for humans as well.

    And for Andorians there should be all four Andorian sexes.

    For Rigelians they should have access to all 5 Rigelian sexes.

    For Gorn, Leathens, and Nasicaans should have females.

    Sexual Orientations can be covered in your bios, not just human ones, but also including alien ones, like people who are attracted to Hortas.

    I'm not sure if I understand this correctly but... you can already include such information in your character's bio.

    It would be nice if it could be added to the character overview screen (the one you get when hitting U). As for adding new sexes to or an option to change our sex in the character creation thing: it's been said in the past that there are some technical challenges to do that. Hence why, for example, we can't wear certain pieces of clothing on all our characters.
  • tarran61tarran61 Member Posts: 827 Arc User
    It is the 25th century right? So much should be open to each toon but again its about the code it takes to make things work.
    Positive thoughts.
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  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    the fail is hard with the OP
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    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • captainperkinscaptainperkins Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    The technical challenges here are a bit too high for the fact that this would be a free aspect of the game.

    Data did mention at the Riker's wedding "welcome ladies and gentlemen and trans gendered species".
    I do support this kind of diversity but really when it comes down to it, officers in any organization wear Uniforms. I think with the male TNG Skant, (that season one mini skirt) and perhaps re-vamping the body tools on the character customization menu, could allow for us to have a scale that leans to more feminine/masculine, like a spectrum. This would require some programming that I'm not sure the devs will prioritize at this time.

    Gene would say "In the 25th century, if someone is trans they simply get a medical procedure to become the opposite sex from which they were born, and then they identify as that sex." So again, just put it in your bio.

    I kind of want guys to have speedos on Risa cause I have a TRIBBLE captain lol. They always had skimpy Y cut bikini's for guys in Star trek, some had open sides exposing more hip. It was sexy! The girls get such sexy swim suits in this game but they guys dont have any of the canon speedos!

    Refer to Worf's copper colored leme speedo Dax packed for him.
    Wesley's speedo from the end scene of "the game" in tng, Where Robin said "how come I never got to see you in these!?"
    the holodeck characters from voyager and some of the guys on risa- with those colorful open sided ones.

    Give me better swim wear!
    And whats with girls having TRIBBLE but guys are flat down there!? Just sayin.
  • captainperkinscaptainperkins Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    Just for ref: my bleeped words weren't bad. They were homosessual and breastzsz
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,216 Arc User
    If one picks the gender which is closest to the appearance one desires, then morphs the body dimensions in the Appearance Editor, one can create androgynous, masculine, or feminine variations in either sex. The gender tag is a mechanical function which allows more character variety. For role-playing purposes is not relevant. What is relevant is the description you place in your bio.
  • officerbatman81officerbatman81 Member Posts: 2,761 Arc User
    No, you choose up front at character creation what species, gender, and career specialty is and that chioce is locked in for the duration of the character.
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    Meh... No development or economic benefits from this... Scrap the idea and spend time on more important things... Like "Scratching ear" emote or a "Tie Shoe" console.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • lexusk19lexusk19 Member Posts: 1,415 Arc User
    A simple drop down box with a list of options would be all they need to do for me.
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  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    "Just for ref: my bleeped words weren't bad. They were homosessual and breastzsz"

    I laughed at that, you sound like a Gorn.
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  • cptjhuntercptjhunter Member Posts: 2,288 Arc User
    Is this a cleverly disguised "Can we haz Skants" thread? :*
  • ryghanryghan Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    I just want to know why we *still* have BOffs where the Male version is "better" (read the choice to pick for a Trait) of the two. Why can't all BOffs of a Species/Race have the same Trait? The one that springs to mind is the Romulan Operative - most folks will tell you to get the Male for certain builds, as he is the "better" of the two due to his Trait.
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    I l'm not transgendered, nor do I have a clothing fetish, I just thought the interesting things could be done along this angle when you explore both human and none human sexes, genders, and sexual orientations which could be truely alien compared to human experiences.
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    Female Orions have the better trait for some builds.
  • toivatoiva Member Posts: 3,276 Arc User
    I doubt opening up the tailor to offer all clothes to all genders is realistic. Many outfits get broken at every addition/revision including anything to do with the tailor. Fixing the problems is an ongoing process with no end line in sight.

    But, I want the skant available for my male chars. And a speedo. (The addition of which will undoubtedly result in whatever bug with the KDF Honor guard costume or the slider for lenght of Ferasan tails, but I'm willing to to accept that drawback.)
    TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class.
    Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
    Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.

    Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    No dude looks good in a speedo, speedos don't flatter the male form. But its your call and choice.
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    lordgyor wrote: »
    No dude looks good in a speedo, speedos don't flatter the male form. But its your call and choice.

    Few people know that that is what 'socks' were actually invented for... enhancement of the Male Form.
    The Feet thing, was just a cover story.
    >:)
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
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  • sadorsador Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    My question is how do you represent being Trans in a video game(or in real life for that matter) where the choice of basic body type is binary? Other than using the character tool to create a highly masculine female or a highly feminized male, the difference between Trans and non-Trans is, and likely always will be, textual. Genetically speaking, you must be one or the other and you don't get a say in that. It might not be politically correct, but it's scientifically accurate.
  • thekodanarmada#7342 thekodanarmada Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    lordgyor wrote: »
    No dude looks good in a speedo, speedos don't flatter the male form. But its your call and choice.

    The Gorn form, however...
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    ryghan wrote: »
    I just want to know why we *still* have BOffs where the Male version is "better" (read the choice to pick for a Trait) of the two. Why can't all BOffs of a Species/Race have the same Trait? The one that springs to mind is the Romulan Operative - most folks will tell you to get the Male for certain builds, as he is the "better" of the two due to his Trait.
    For the same reason the blue-quality one is better than the purple. Their traits were selected at random.
  • lexusk19lexusk19 Member Posts: 1,415 Arc User
    sador wrote: »
    My question is how do you represent being Trans in a video game(or in real life for that matter) where the choice of basic body type is binary? Other than using the character tool to create a highly masculine female or a highly feminized male, the difference between Trans and non-Trans is, and likely always will be, textual. Genetically speaking, you must be one or the other and you don't get a say in that. It might not be politically correct, but it's scientifically accurate.

    Like I said, a simple drop down list in the bio would be enough for me. Let me identify and choose what I want to be, I do get where your coming from though.
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  • tribbulatertribbulater Member Posts: 294 Arc User
    While I appreciate people's desire for super-specific character customization, I think I and the 98.7% of the player base who would have zero use for this would rather the programming time and UI tweaking go to somewhat more broad-based benefits.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    lexusk19 wrote: »
    sador wrote: »
    My question is how do you represent being Trans in a video game(or in real life for that matter) where the choice of basic body type is binary? Other than using the character tool to create a highly masculine female or a highly feminized male, the difference between Trans and non-Trans is, and likely always will be, textual. Genetically speaking, you must be one or the other and you don't get a say in that. It might not be politically correct, but it's scientifically accurate.

    Like I said, a simple drop down list in the bio would be enough for me. Let me identify and choose what I want to be, I do get where your coming from though.
    The bio can be customized 100% to reflect whatever you want. Do you want validation by having the "female human" part to say "female post-op transgender human" or whatever? Out here in California, you can choose to have your driver's license say female or male. As far as I know, nobody wants their driver's license to say "male/female transgender."

    EDIT: I think that the easiest fix from a dev standpoint is to not have genders listed at all. Let the players fill that in in their bio if they so choose.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • thekodanarmada#7342 thekodanarmada Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    While I appreciate people's desire for super-specific character customization, I think I and the 98.7% of the player base who would have zero use for this would rather the programming time and UI tweaking go to somewhat more broad-based benefits.

    This is a lousy appeal to spend time only on the majority and does not mean the accommodation should not be done.
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  • sp00kymulder#3221 sp00kymulder Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    While I appreciate people's desire for super-specific character customization, I think I and the 98.7% of the player base who would have zero use for this would rather the programming time and UI tweaking go to somewhat more broad-based benefits.

    This is a lousy appeal to spend time only on the majority and does not mean the accommodation should not be done.

    if we were talking purely about social policy i would agree with you. but since we are talking about a business, then we have to consider return on investment.

    why do you think they arent developing KDF/ROM exclusive content? because they dont think the return would justify the investment.

    the same would apply to something that 98.7%(using the hypothetical percent mentioned earlier) of customers wouldnt use.
  • aliensamongusaliensamongus Member Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    I'm all for equal rights. I just don't think we should change everything by catering to 0.3% [American stats] of people.

    I understand the need to be included.. but just look what just changing bathrooms taught the world. It's not ready yet.

    Us Dutch men seem to have long legs, but I'm sure we learn to adapt by cramming our legs into those booths [on an airplane for example). Though we did have to add some centimeters to our length of doors. Heh.
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  • thekodanarmada#7342 thekodanarmada Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    I don't think the majority's worldview needs more coddling as a way to solve this problem.
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