No, it's an Incompetent Klingon, a Klingon with the strategic and tactical acumen (and strategies) of Luigi Cadorna or Ambrose Burnside. Kagran is written as a moron, who sends forces on futile frontal attacks against fortified positions and makes zero use of the advantages his own fleet has had since Kirk's day.
in truth, he may wear a Klingon face, but his 'strategy' is pure pakled. What is he, a Starfleet Academy graduate?
He's just unusually genre blind. Most quest givers in STO recognize that in RPGs, an NPC can only do three things well:
1. Give orders to a Player
2. Get rescued by a Player
3. Die
Thus we get sent at the enemies alone all the time.
Kagran doesn't get that until Midnight. Really, the Iconian War is all about Kagran's character development. His slow path to the realization that all he needed to do to win the war...was to tell the Player to do it.
One developer said that the Pilot ships didn't sell well. But the new, mother of all KDF lockbox ships is a pilot ship. Not sure what to make of that.
I would imagine that the reason Pilot ships didn't sell very well is two fold:
1. The Fed ones in particular are FUGLY and don't have a Battle Cloak.
2. They are essentially escorts which came at a time when the meta was (and ostensibly still is) all about cruisers and FAW. Now that skills have changed and made cannons possible again, BoPs shine a little more.
It matters quite a lot that there is more Starfleet material to base stuff on than KDF material. Why? Because part of what Cryptic does is first providing the stuff we know from canon. That means lots of ships, archetypes and locations. And there is a lot of material to cover, and most of it is not Klingon. It's either Federation/Starfleet or some alien of the week.
Such as the Voth, the Elachi, the Iconians, the Terran Empire...
Cryptic spends as much time making new content as it does re-treading the stuff we saw on screen.
It matters because not just the developers are inspired by this material.
What Cryptic makes can inspire players as much as what is seen on screen. You assume Cryptic fails before it begins. Since Cryptic has not even tried, the point is mute.
And you cannot debunk that. Sure Cryptic can make up some new ****. But Star Trek fandom is full of nostalgia. They don't want the new sh*t from Abrams or whomever. They want to expand on the old sh*t. And there is so much more to expand on the Fed side of the story. It's no accident that we get Tier 5 Retrofits of almost every canon ship before they launched Tier 6, and it's probably no accident either that it wasn't long after the last Tier 5 canon Retrofit that they expanded the level cap - to launch a new series of T6 retrofits of canon ships. People love this stuff and it sells.
It's not that new stuff doesn't work at all - but they have to cover the old ground thoroughly at well.
From day 1, the KDF was nothing like the shows. It is a unique entity that has no purpose or identity. The only difference between the Voth and Cryptic's KDF is that the Voth have actual lore development.
I think they know what they can do. Keep doing faction-agnostic story. And release the occassional cross-faction ship pack or some similar stuff that is available to all factions. They are experimenting with the 31st century Temporal ships that are available to all. I don't know if they'll do something like that again - a Joint Venture project perhaps, or some "alliance faction" ships, like say, Gorn or Orion vessels being sold to Republic and Federation as well as the Klingons. Or maybe Fek'lihri ships as part of a Klingon story arc revamp made availalbe either in the C-Store or the next lockbox.
If all they can do is create a few art assets and empty Klingon-only NPC dialogue, then they are not trying. If Cryptic cannot give the faction they created some identity, then the KDF will continue to wither. Sell all the Orion, Gorn, and Fek'lhir ships to the Federation (that might actually get the Kar'fi fixed). You still won't have any new Red side players. Why make a Red character, when you can buy all their stuff on the Blue side?
Please, leave conspiracy theories out of this. There is no grant conspiracy that is working to manipulate the "Metrics" to **** the KDF over. If you believe such nonsense, then there is absolutely no point in discussing the topic at all, the evil conspirators will twirl their mustaches and ruin everything anyway.
The only thing that screws KDF over is 50 year of Star Trek canon that is mostly focused on humanity's place in the future.
LOL I call BS. The KDF has never been given full attention. Ever. Adding in broken ships and bugged missions, and claiming that it's unprofitable is only believable to the most gullible of gullibles.
That doesn't mean there is some conspiracy to manipulate the "metrics" just to make it look as if the KDF was not worth it.
Oh, I think you're right there. I don't think metrics have anything to do with it. It would take some kind of mass exodus from FED to KDF for them to even bother noticing it, IMO. XD
I think they don't want people playing KDF, myself.
And that's a conspiracy theory that is contradicted by what they actually do. You see the flaws in the Tier 6 ships and make it to mean that they don't want KDF palyers, but if they don't want them, the best way to do that is to not give them stuff in the first place. (And especially not free stuff, as the aforementioned TOS uniforms and head options)
Except, you're the only one claiming it's a unified effort, and those KDF TOS Uniforms and Head Options were done by Crypticjoejing off-the-clock, as in unpaid time, while he was working on repairing the KDF uniform and appearances OFF THE CLOCK, on PERSONAL, as in UNPAID, Time.
And you think this stuff could get into the game if the lead designer doesn't want it to? That's nonsense. Devs don't get away with randomly putting stuff in a game without clearance from the superiors. And the Cross-Faction packages were certainly not done in someone's free time.
Not going to belittle what devs like Jesse Heinig do, though, when they put in that extra time. It's a reminder they care and will do things basically pro bono for the game and its players.
No, it's an Incompetent Klingon, a Klingon with the strategic and tactical acumen (and strategies) of Luigi Cadorna or Ambrose Burnside. Kagran is written as a moron, who sends forces on futile frontal attacks against fortified positions and makes zero use of the advantages his own fleet has had since Kirk's day.
It's too bad that people really don't get the point of the attack on the Sphere.
I try to explain it.
You are fighting a war. And you are losing ships and people all the time. Your enemy is super-mobile, and he can appear anywhere he wants. That means he chooses when to fight, and where to fight. He can always attack you were you are weak. He can basically always guarantee to have superior numbers, while you are forced to spread your forces thin as the enemy could attack at any point. You're fighting a losing battle. You always lose more than your enemy does.
But this incredible mobility is only available to him because of one special base of operations. If you could destroy it, his mobility would be lowered to your level, and you can more safely predict where he'l lattack and where you need to mass your forces. YOu can even start intercepting him.
But this base of operations is huge. It's well defended. You know that barring some miracle, the only way to win this war is if you can take out this base of operations.
When do you attack? When the enemy has increased his numerical advantage further because he keeps winning and you keep losing, ships get destroyed, soldiers and civilians keep dying, worlds and bases are lost.
Or do you attack while you still have a sizeable force and hope to land a strike at the critical vulnerabiltiy in the enemy's base of operation to cripple it?
Kagran wasn't dumb or stupid. He did the only thing he possibly could do at this point, because the longer he waited, the lower his chances of success. The longer he waited, the more planets would be lost to the Iconians, the more lives would be taken.
His actions do in fact mirror Sisko's actions to retake Deep Space Nine. He had to launch his attack force to retake Deep Space Nine with one fleet missing, and with no confirmed support of the Klingons. His force fought superior numbers and .... lost. Only one ship could manage to run from the battle in time to enter the wormhole, and it was one Defiant against what - 4800 ships? He had no chance. The Alpha Quadrant was lost. Except... Space Gods intervened. A miracle happened.
The only difference between Kagran and Sisko here was - Kagran didn't have space gods on his side. But they both had to make a plans to deal with an impossible situation, and took the best available options. But if you fight a war that you can't win, the best available option is still sh*t.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Please, leave conspiracy theories out of this. There is no grant conspiracy that is working to manipulate the "Metrics" to **** the KDF over. If you believe such nonsense, then there is absolutely no point in discussing the topic at all, the evil conspirators will twirl their mustaches and ruin everything anyway.
The only thing that screws KDF over is 50 year of Star Trek canon that is mostly focused on humanity's place in the future.
LOL I call BS. The KDF has never been given full attention. Ever. Adding in broken ships and bugged missions, and claiming that it's unprofitable is only believable to the most gullible of gullibles.
That doesn't mean there is some conspiracy to manipulate the "metrics" just to make it look as if the KDF was not worth it.
Oh, I think you're right there. I don't think metrics have anything to do with it. It would take some kind of mass exodus from FED to KDF for them to even bother noticing it, IMO. XD
I think they don't want people playing KDF, myself.
And that's a conspiracy theory that is contradicted by what they actually do. You see the flaws in the Tier 6 ships and make it to mean that they don't want KDF palyers, but if they don't want them, the best way to do that is to not give them stuff in the first place. (And especially not free stuff, as the aforementioned TOS uniforms and head options)
Except, you're the only one claiming it's a unified effort, and those KDF TOS Uniforms and Head Options were done by Crypticjoejing off-the-clock, as in unpaid time, while he was working on repairing the KDF uniform and appearances OFF THE CLOCK, on PERSONAL, as in UNPAID, Time.
And you think this stuff could get into the game if the lead designer doesn't want it to? That's nonsense. Devs don't get away with randomly putting stuff in a game without clearance from the superiors. And the Cross-Faction packages were certainly not done in someone's free time.
Not going to belittle what devs like Jesse Heinig do, though, when they put in that extra time. It's a reminder they care and will do things basically pro bono for the game and its players.
Quite Possible the answer is "YES, it CAN." Here's why; they're human beings, and a pretty close-knit team (or they like to present that way). It is very likely Mr. Heinig could simply present the work and get it approved at ninety percent complete because Geko doesn't want to be a **** to his own people, and rationally 'gets' that this is good for the game, even though he would never actually approve it for charge-able funding.
besides, find a boss that wouldn't be pleased to get free labor if it's professional quality, from a worker he trusts, and cosmetically, at least, conforms to honoring the contract with the license-holder?
No, it's an Incompetent Klingon, a Klingon with the strategic and tactical acumen (and strategies) of Luigi Cadorna or Ambrose Burnside. Kagran is written as a moron, who sends forces on futile frontal attacks against fortified positions and makes zero use of the advantages his own fleet has had since Kirk's day.
It's too bad that people really don't get the point of the attack on the Sphere.
I try to explain it.
You are fighting a war. And you are losing ships and people all the time. Your enemy is super-mobile, and he can appear anywhere he wants. That means he chooses when to fight, and where to fight. He can always attack you were you are weak. He can basically always guarantee to have superior numbers, while you are forced to spread your forces thin as the enemy could attack at any point. You're fighting a losing battle. You always lose more than your enemy does.
But this incredible mobility is only available to him because of one special base of operations. If you could destroy it, his mobility would be lowered to your level, and you can more safely predict where he'l lattack and where you need to mass your forces. YOu can even start intercepting him.
But this base of operations is huge. It's well defended. You know that barring some miracle, the only way to win this war is if you can take out this base of operations.
When do you attack? When the enemy has increased his numerical advantage further because he keeps winning and you keep losing, ships get destroyed, soldiers and civilians keep dying, worlds and bases are lost.
Or do you attack while you still have a sizeable force and hope to land a strike at the critical vulnerabiltiy in the enemy's base of operation to cripple it?
Kagran wasn't dumb or stupid. He did the only thing he possibly could do at this point, because the longer he waited, the lower his chances of success. The longer he waited, the more planets would be lost to the Iconians, the more lives would be taken.
His actions do in fact mirror Sisko's actions to retake Deep Space Nine. He had to launch his attack force to retake Deep Space Nine with one fleet missing, and with no confirmed support of the Klingons. His force fought superior numbers and .... lost. Only one ship could manage to run from the battle in time to enter the wormhole, and it was one Defiant against what - 4800 ships? He had no chance. The Alpha Quadrant was lost. Except... Space Gods intervened. A miracle happened.
The only difference between Kagran and Sisko here was - Kagran didn't have space gods on his side. But they both had to make a plans to deal with an impossible situation, and took the best available options. But if you fight a war that you can't win, the best available option is still sh*t.
except...
1. Kagran makes zero use of Klingon technologies WE know work against the Heralds-like cloaking, jump-consoles, etc. that are KDF exclusives on production ships-instead, he lines up in the open to be slaughtered in a frontal assault. Sisko's fleet lacked cloaking, was mostly made up of pressed-into-service non-combat vessels (mirandas seem to be the bulk of it in the scenes we have, but Galaxy class were carrying FAMILIES-they're not dedicated warships. the Klingon Fleet is.)
I doubt those Galaxies were still having families aboard. The war had been going on far too long at this point.
2. they know where the door is, and how to get in (again, we see this in the queued missions, durr...) yet he lines up for a frontal assault with uncloaked ships running in the open-he does not even attempt simple moves like having a portion of the fleet uncloaked to draw out defenders...
4. he rolls in uncloaked and visible so they can count the ships and see their dispositions, from range, at long range, outside of weapons range.
We only see a small part of the battle, the part where we are in. There could be cloaked ship movements and what not happen everywhere - quite possibly they are the reason we get to the point we are in in the first place.
And of course, NPCs in the story rarely use their abilities to the fullest extent. The Iconians don't do it either, and they have millenia to prepare and the yhave their teleporting ships ,and wherever I appear, they never send enough in the battle to beat me, even though it should be trivial to them to always fight at 20 to 1 odds or whatever abritrary number they could use.
Of course, we also don't know if there aren't practical limitations to both cloak in this point (Iconian tech might be able to detect the presence of cloaked ships, particulaly ones that approach at warp, and you wouldn't really surprise them, just make life a bit more difficult since the detection is not precise enough to launch an attack. And in turn, maybe the Iconian Gateway system cannot teleport any number of ships as often as they'd like, so they still have practical limitations.)
And it's notable that at no point in the story did anyone call out Kagran as doing it wrong. So I think that from the in-game universe, he actually did everything right. Neither your character nor any Federation guys complain about his methods. Either they are all incompetent, or they are actually doing the best that's possible within the universe, even if we personally can think of better ideas.
It would be very unusual in a story medium like STO to have a character be incompetent and not called out as such by some other character.
In the end, you're vastly overthinking this. Cryptic authors are not military writers and have about as much clue about strategy and tactics as the average Trek writer, and even if they had better graps of it, putting it all in a mision dynamic and expositionary dialogue might be too much to be practical. They got the basic ideas and that will have to suffice.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
And it's notable that at no point in the story did anyone call out Kagran as doing it wrong. So I think that from the in-game universe, he actually did everything right. Neither your character nor any Federation guys complain about his methods. Either they are all incompetent, or they are actually doing the best that's possible within the universe, even if we personally can think of better ideas.
It would be very unusual in a story medium like STO to have a character be incompetent and not called out as such by some other character.
That's kind of like Borg and projectile weapons. Ever since Picard shot those two drones with the holographic tommygun in First Contact, some people have insisted that everyone in Starfleet if not the entire galaxy must be idiots for not using slugthrowers against the Borg every time, Picard himself more so for not keeping the gun that was "proven to work" or luring more Borg into the holodeck.
Those people just assume that because WE didn't see the Borg adapting to bullets, that they couldn't possibly be capable of doing so and that everyone in the universe who's actually fought and studied the Borg must be stupid for not figuring that out. Instead of the more logical deduction that the Borg do adapt to bullets after the first few dead drones just like they do any other weapon, that Starfleet knows they adapt to bullets, and that's why they don't use bullets on them. That Picard abandoned his gun instead of trying to kill more Borg with it because he knew after the first two they'd have adapted.
Kagran's plan failed. Or rather, the parts of Kagran's plan that didn't involve the player failed. So people assume that because we didn't SEE him try <insert clever tactics here>, he must not have done anything. But we weren't there to see when the fleet was destroyed, we were inside the sphere, successfully killing M'tara. To quote Picard: "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose."
Oh please... it is a known fact that not ALL cross faction stuff is written for Feds... Nimbus was not.
"Known fact." Care to support that with anything?
Nimbus was a part of the Romulan Republic story that go made cross faction and tied to a ground battle zone. I mean seriously... the final mission is to infiltrate a Tal-Shiar base and steal their secrets....
That does not make it a "known fact." It makes it "likely."
Ok... how about the fact that your tactical officer talks like Tovan Khev the entire mission chain?
Im not sure you know what "known fact" means.
So, point out where I am wrong. what about Nimbus makes it seem like a Federation mission to you?
Well, you mention it's a "known fact" because
1. It's infiltrating a Tal Shiar base, which could happen with any Starfleet mission, and
2. The tac officer "talks like Tovan Khev," which is your opinion.
Therefore, I again state that I'm not sure you know what "known fact" means.
You never played the Romulan Republic story did you?
Incorrect.
Well, then.... What faction do YOU think the story was written for and why?
And that's a conspiracy theory that is contradicted by what they actually do. You see the flaws in the Tier 6 ships and make it to mean that they don't want KDF palyers, but if they don't want them, the best way to do that is to not give them stuff in the first place. (And especially not free stuff, as the aforementioned TOS uniforms and head options)
And I think if they didn't want people playing KDF or RR, they wouldn't bother with NPCs like Kagran in key story positions, either. A lot of the stories become much easier if they would just pick Fed characters. I think a lot of the stuff especially in the Iconian Arc is basically designed as advertisement for the KDF and the Romulan Republic. We're not trying to save Vulcan or Andor or some other Federation world from the Iconians - It's new Romulus and Q'onos. There isn't some Starfleet Admiral (maybe a Trek alumni like Tuvok) that's leading the War effort against the Iconians. It's a Klingon.
Yeah really. They used New Romulus and Qonos as the setting of several Iconian war missions. IF they REALLY wanted to bury them, then they wouldn't have even bothered with that.
cheaper to use existing resources, one, two, if you're going to trash someone's house, trashing the house of someone you don't like is a hell of a lot more convenient.
True Markhawkman...but that was so they had the 'excuse' to redesign esd...wheras the others were trashed and left unaltered
If there was no esd rebuild, they likely would have had the 'heroic' feds fighting on the rom flotilla instead as that could simply be argued those ships were replaced (which could be quite cool, fighting from ship to ship to get to the singularity core the undine plan to blow up into a black hole)
True Markhawkman...but that was so they had the 'excuse' to redesign esd...wheras the others were trashed and left unaltered
If there was no esd rebuild, they likely would have had the 'heroic' feds fighting on the rom flotilla instead as that could simply be argued those ships were replaced (which could be quite cool, fighting from ship to ship to get to the singularity core the undine plan to blow up into a black hole)
ESD got a level of trashed that Qo'nos and Mol'Rihan didn't... it was literally in pieces when the Undine were done with it. Qono's had a few holes shot in things, but not that much. Mol'Rihan had most of the damage confined to trees getting lit on fire.....
Don't know if it counts as playing as a KDF character but I find it more agreeable to do the dailies on the KDF side (mostly Empire Defense) with my Hegh'ta Bird of Prey than I do any similar dailies with my Federation character's Sovereign. My Hegh'ta seems more capable of destroying ships at least.
Oh please... it is a known fact that not ALL cross faction stuff is written for Feds... Nimbus was not.
"Known fact." Care to support that with anything?
Nimbus was a part of the Romulan Republic story that go made cross faction and tied to a ground battle zone. I mean seriously... the final mission is to infiltrate a Tal-Shiar base and steal their secrets....
That does not make it a "known fact." It makes it "likely."
Ok... how about the fact that your tactical officer talks like Tovan Khev the entire mission chain?
Im not sure you know what "known fact" means.
So, point out where I am wrong. what about Nimbus makes it seem like a Federation mission to you?
Well, you mention it's a "known fact" because
1. It's infiltrating a Tal Shiar base, which could happen with any Starfleet mission, and
2. The tac officer "talks like Tovan Khev," which is your opinion.
Therefore, I again state that I'm not sure you know what "known fact" means.
You never played the Romulan Republic story did you?
Incorrect.
Well, then.... What faction do YOU think the story was written for and why?
And that's a conspiracy theory that is contradicted by what they actually do. You see the flaws in the Tier 6 ships and make it to mean that they don't want KDF palyers, but if they don't want them, the best way to do that is to not give them stuff in the first place. (And especially not free stuff, as the aforementioned TOS uniforms and head options)
And I think if they didn't want people playing KDF or RR, they wouldn't bother with NPCs like Kagran in key story positions, either. A lot of the stories become much easier if they would just pick Fed characters. I think a lot of the stuff especially in the Iconian Arc is basically designed as advertisement for the KDF and the Romulan Republic. We're not trying to save Vulcan or Andor or some other Federation world from the Iconians - It's new Romulus and Q'onos. There isn't some Starfleet Admiral (maybe a Trek alumni like Tuvok) that's leading the War effort against the Iconians. It's a Klingon.
Yeah really. They used New Romulus and Qonos as the setting of several Iconian war missions. IF they REALLY wanted to bury them, then they wouldn't have even bothered with that.
cheaper to use existing resources, one, two, if you're going to trash someone's house, trashing the house of someone you don't like is a hell of a lot more convenient.
..... they also blew up ESD.....
You've totally missed my point, although I've reiterated it multiple times. You said "known fact." It isn't. That's like saying "I literally know everything," which is both obviously false and presumptuous.
Not even reading the other posts, a free T5 B'Rel would get me into KDF again. With my main toon using both the KT ships and my Romulan with a T6 Fleet D'deridex and Fleet T5-U Ar'kif, I am just simply not that interested in playing my Ferasan anymore for anything other than dilithium for my Fed's equipment. I don't have any ships on the KDF side that I like outside of the B'rotlh.
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
I stopped reading the minute people begged for all faction ships to be given to feds.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I stopped reading the minute people begged for all faction ships to be given to feds.
Do you want more KDF players, or do you want KDF Science Vessels and Carriers and the like?
(Neither is a valid answer - you might want more KDF faction-specific content. But that's probably even further out from likely thing to happen. Even if the KDF faction population reached parity with the Federation, faction-agnostic content still reaches more players.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Patrickngo, I am not sure why you think you have to always respond in tirades of epic proportions, but no, I am not going to read or respond to the details of your post.
I am well aware of how bad the game is in providing fitting dialog or mission mechanics, ignoring factions, player or NPC species, player ship capabilities or whatever. But the missions are still faction-agnostic in the sense that you can play them on your KDF character. I can understand wanting more. But that's just another argument to get rid of the faction-restrictions on ships (even though I personally dislike the idea for roleplaying reasons), for example - if Feds would be flying more KDF or RR ships, then taking cloak into account might become more desirable. (But probably it would not. I think Cryptic does not even do this in KDF or RR missions ever. Just because of the off-chance you happen to not fly a cloakable vessel, I suppose)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
for example: My ship has a cloaking device. Why am I being forced out of cloak just so the borg can target me in that first run with the Krenim ship? I have a Cloaking Device. The mission was configured on the assumption that I was a FEDERATION CRUISER PILOT. (this seems to happen a LOT.) Basically FEELS like being railroaded, because it IS being railroaded. 2/3 of your factions have ships that come bog-standard with cloaking. Cloaking is a good idea-if your players are allowed to use it...but missions are built assuming nobody cloaks. Can't progress without being decloaked or being pulled out of cloak by ensign flatulent.[/i].
The missions are NOT configured "assuming you're a Federation cruiser pilot." Quite the opposite in fact, they're configured with the knowledge that some players will have cloaks. To prevent them from "cheating" by using the cloak to just skip all the fighting. This is extremely common in videogames, across all genres.
Because without it, cloaking would be a game breaker.
for example: My ship has a cloaking device. Why am I being forced out of cloak just so the borg can target me in that first run with the Krenim ship? I have a Cloaking Device. The mission was configured on the assumption that I was a FEDERATION CRUISER PILOT. (this seems to happen a LOT.) Basically FEELS like being railroaded, because it IS being railroaded. 2/3 of your factions have ships that come bog-standard with cloaking. Cloaking is a good idea-if your players are allowed to use it...but missions are built assuming nobody cloaks. Can't progress without being decloaked or being pulled out of cloak by ensign flatulent.[/i].
The missions are NOT configured "assuming you're a Federation cruiser pilot." Quite the opposite in fact, they're configured with the knowledge that some players will have cloaks. To prevent them from "cheating" by using the cloak to just skip all the fighting. This is extremely common in videogames, across all genres.
Because without it, cloaking would be a game breaker.
If the mission is configured with cloaking accounted for, as opposed to simply sabotaged, it's not nearly the game-breaker or 'cheat' you seem to think it is. It's only when the mission has been configured and concieved on the flat assumption that your character wouldn't cloak if he has the option, that it becomes a breaker-in which case the REAL question is why the ability exists in the first place, if it is so horribly game-changing.
Because canon.
I would be interested in hearing how you suppose invisiblity could be "accounted for" in mission design without being "sabotaged." Given that the goal is to ensure players with the ability don't use it to skip half the mission.
What I'm going to say is unrealistic, and is never going to happen, however it's 100% honest.
The only way I will play my KDF toon more is if they remove Orions, Gorn, Aliengen, etc as KDF options, change all alien KDF NPCs to Klingons, and delete all references to non-Klingons serving in the KDF. I just can't stomach playing a faction that makes me cringe every other time I talk to an NPC, KDF should be Klingon and Klingon only. Things like an Orion talking about honor the way a Klingon would are far, far, FAR more immersion breaking than seeing Feds in command of Nakhul or Species 8472 ships.
for example: My ship has a cloaking device. Why am I being forced out of cloak just so the borg can target me in that first run with the Krenim ship? I have a Cloaking Device. The mission was configured on the assumption that I was a FEDERATION CRUISER PILOT. (this seems to happen a LOT.) Basically FEELS like being railroaded, because it IS being railroaded. 2/3 of your factions have ships that come bog-standard with cloaking. Cloaking is a good idea-if your players are allowed to use it...but missions are built assuming nobody cloaks. Can't progress without being decloaked or being pulled out of cloak by ensign flatulent.[/i].
The missions are NOT configured "assuming you're a Federation cruiser pilot." Quite the opposite in fact, they're configured with the knowledge that some players will have cloaks. To prevent them from "cheating" by using the cloak to just skip all the fighting. This is extremely common in videogames, across all genres.
Because without it, cloaking would be a game breaker.
If the mission is configured with cloaking accounted for, as opposed to simply sabotaged, it's not nearly the game-breaker or 'cheat' you seem to think it is. It's only when the mission has been configured and concieved on the flat assumption that your character wouldn't cloak if he has the option, that it becomes a breaker-in which case the REAL question is why the ability exists in the first place, if it is so horribly game-changing.
Patrickngo, I am not sure why you think you have to always respond in tirades of epic proportions, but no, I am not going to read or respond to the details of your post.
I am well aware of how bad the game is in providing fitting dialog or mission mechanics, ignoring factions, player or NPC species, player ship capabilities or whatever. But the missions are still faction-agnostic in the sense that you can play them on your KDF character. I can understand wanting more. But that's just another argument to get rid of the faction-restrictions on ships (even though I personally dislike the idea for roleplaying reasons), for example - if Feds would be flying more KDF or RR ships, then taking cloak into account might become more desirable. (But probably it would not. I think Cryptic does not even do this in KDF or RR missions ever. Just because of the off-chance you happen to not fly a cloakable vessel, I suppose)
Mostly, Mustrum, because I try to refrain from four-letter words and actually try to back up my assertions with more than blind faith in the authority-handed-from-above. (meaning I try to account for someone NOT agreeing by giving them reference points. I know, weird, right? treating an audience like they're not completely stupid even when they don't agree with me??)
Sorry if you don't care to be treated that way. I WOULD offer to treat you in a shabbier manner, but it wouldn't be, imho, particularly polite to the audience. I figure I'm rude enough as-is without also treating you and anyone who disagrees like a moron.
This was a much nicer post that one can respond to.
The biggest problems with your posts is - you start dominating the threats. And so it all becomes all about you and your personal interpretations of statements and your point of view.
But look at the topic at hand - what is it actually about? What would it take to get you to play KDF?
You already play it. You could say: "Business as Usual would do it", because you already play it and be done. But instead you list all your grievances, with exacting precision and multi-paragraph posts, full of italic texts. That's all nice and dany to figure out what yo uwant for the KDF, but does it actually help to figure out an answer? You obviously think so, but - it's just your one single view point that now everyone will feel compelled to engage.
But what about the people that actually do not play KDF at all? What is causing this? Is it really relevant to them that the get uncloaked constantly during a mission? If they don't play KDF, they might not even know. They might know this from the Federation ships that have cloak, and yet they still play Fed.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Might be some people also, who would want more race options added to KDF faction, without having to "game" the system by making an alien version of an existing race(using Andorians as an example).
What I'm going to say is unrealistic, and is never going to happen, however it's 100% honest.
The only way I will play my KDF toon more is if they remove Orions, Gorn, Aliengen, etc as KDF options, change all alien KDF NPCs to Klingons, and delete all references to non-Klingons serving in the KDF. I just can't stomach playing a faction that makes me cringe every other time I talk to an NPC, KDF should be Klingon and Klingon only. Things like an Orion talking about honor the way a Klingon would are far, far, FAR more immersion breaking than seeing Feds in command of Nakhul or Species 8472 ships.
Again, I know this will never happen.
Xenophobia... look it up.
Here you go had this some time ago Kor is a purist, and Klingons have strict policy against outsiders. Death to the Fed Aliiance!
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
A way to raise KDF numbers is to make more non-Klingon items, like labeling the Disruptor high density as a Gorn rifle Mk-something, and making new one's that would be made by Lethean's and Ferasen's, as well from all the "less-Klingon ships in KDF please" idea that some players want.
You already have plenty of non-KDF ships. Lobi ships. Now KDF needs to change to something else entirely? I'd love for Fed faction to be changed to Mirror Universe, but it isn't going to happen.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
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He's just unusually genre blind. Most quest givers in STO recognize that in RPGs, an NPC can only do three things well:
1. Give orders to a Player
2. Get rescued by a Player
3. Die
Thus we get sent at the enemies alone all the time.
Kagran doesn't get that until Midnight. Really, the Iconian War is all about Kagran's character development. His slow path to the realization that all he needed to do to win the war...was to tell the Player to do it.
I would imagine that the reason Pilot ships didn't sell very well is two fold:
1. The Fed ones in particular are FUGLY and don't have a Battle Cloak.
2. They are essentially escorts which came at a time when the meta was (and ostensibly still is) all about cruisers and FAW. Now that skills have changed and made cannons possible again, BoPs shine a little more.
Cryptic spends as much time making new content as it does re-treading the stuff we saw on screen. What Cryptic makes can inspire players as much as what is seen on screen. You assume Cryptic fails before it begins. Since Cryptic has not even tried, the point is mute.
From day 1, the KDF was nothing like the shows. It is a unique entity that has no purpose or identity. The only difference between the Voth and Cryptic's KDF is that the Voth have actual lore development.
If all they can do is create a few art assets and empty Klingon-only NPC dialogue, then they are not trying. If Cryptic cannot give the faction they created some identity, then the KDF will continue to wither. Sell all the Orion, Gorn, and Fek'lhir ships to the Federation (that might actually get the Kar'fi fixed). You still won't have any new Red side players. Why make a Red character, when you can buy all their stuff on the Blue side?
Not going to belittle what devs like Jesse Heinig do, though, when they put in that extra time. It's a reminder they care and will do things basically pro bono for the game and its players.
It's too bad that people really don't get the point of the attack on the Sphere.
I try to explain it.
You are fighting a war. And you are losing ships and people all the time. Your enemy is super-mobile, and he can appear anywhere he wants. That means he chooses when to fight, and where to fight. He can always attack you were you are weak. He can basically always guarantee to have superior numbers, while you are forced to spread your forces thin as the enemy could attack at any point. You're fighting a losing battle. You always lose more than your enemy does.
But this incredible mobility is only available to him because of one special base of operations. If you could destroy it, his mobility would be lowered to your level, and you can more safely predict where he'l lattack and where you need to mass your forces. YOu can even start intercepting him.
But this base of operations is huge. It's well defended. You know that barring some miracle, the only way to win this war is if you can take out this base of operations.
When do you attack? When the enemy has increased his numerical advantage further because he keeps winning and you keep losing, ships get destroyed, soldiers and civilians keep dying, worlds and bases are lost.
Or do you attack while you still have a sizeable force and hope to land a strike at the critical vulnerabiltiy in the enemy's base of operation to cripple it?
Kagran wasn't dumb or stupid. He did the only thing he possibly could do at this point, because the longer he waited, the lower his chances of success. The longer he waited, the more planets would be lost to the Iconians, the more lives would be taken.
His actions do in fact mirror Sisko's actions to retake Deep Space Nine. He had to launch his attack force to retake Deep Space Nine with one fleet missing, and with no confirmed support of the Klingons. His force fought superior numbers and .... lost. Only one ship could manage to run from the battle in time to enter the wormhole, and it was one Defiant against what - 4800 ships? He had no chance. The Alpha Quadrant was lost. Except... Space Gods intervened. A miracle happened.
The only difference between Kagran and Sisko here was - Kagran didn't have space gods on his side. But they both had to make a plans to deal with an impossible situation, and took the best available options. But if you fight a war that you can't win, the best available option is still sh*t.
We only see a small part of the battle, the part where we are in. There could be cloaked ship movements and what not happen everywhere - quite possibly they are the reason we get to the point we are in in the first place.
And of course, NPCs in the story rarely use their abilities to the fullest extent. The Iconians don't do it either, and they have millenia to prepare and the yhave their teleporting ships ,and wherever I appear, they never send enough in the battle to beat me, even though it should be trivial to them to always fight at 20 to 1 odds or whatever abritrary number they could use.
Of course, we also don't know if there aren't practical limitations to both cloak in this point (Iconian tech might be able to detect the presence of cloaked ships, particulaly ones that approach at warp, and you wouldn't really surprise them, just make life a bit more difficult since the detection is not precise enough to launch an attack. And in turn, maybe the Iconian Gateway system cannot teleport any number of ships as often as they'd like, so they still have practical limitations.)
And it's notable that at no point in the story did anyone call out Kagran as doing it wrong. So I think that from the in-game universe, he actually did everything right. Neither your character nor any Federation guys complain about his methods. Either they are all incompetent, or they are actually doing the best that's possible within the universe, even if we personally can think of better ideas.
It would be very unusual in a story medium like STO to have a character be incompetent and not called out as such by some other character.
In the end, you're vastly overthinking this. Cryptic authors are not military writers and have about as much clue about strategy and tactics as the average Trek writer, and even if they had better graps of it, putting it all in a mision dynamic and expositionary dialogue might be too much to be practical. They got the basic ideas and that will have to suffice.
Those people just assume that because WE didn't see the Borg adapting to bullets, that they couldn't possibly be capable of doing so and that everyone in the universe who's actually fought and studied the Borg must be stupid for not figuring that out. Instead of the more logical deduction that the Borg do adapt to bullets after the first few dead drones just like they do any other weapon, that Starfleet knows they adapt to bullets, and that's why they don't use bullets on them. That Picard abandoned his gun instead of trying to kill more Borg with it because he knew after the first two they'd have adapted.
Kagran's plan failed. Or rather, the parts of Kagran's plan that didn't involve the player failed. So people assume that because we didn't SEE him try <insert clever tactics here>, he must not have done anything. But we weren't there to see when the fleet was destroyed, we were inside the sphere, successfully killing M'tara. To quote Picard: "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose."
My character Tsin'xing
If there was no esd rebuild, they likely would have had the 'heroic' feds fighting on the rom flotilla instead as that could simply be argued those ships were replaced (which could be quite cool, fighting from ship to ship to get to the singularity core the undine plan to blow up into a black hole)
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My character Tsin'xing
You've totally missed my point, although I've reiterated it multiple times. You said "known fact." It isn't. That's like saying "I literally know everything," which is both obviously false and presumptuous.
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Do you want more KDF players, or do you want KDF Science Vessels and Carriers and the like?
(Neither is a valid answer - you might want more KDF faction-specific content. But that's probably even further out from likely thing to happen. Even if the KDF faction population reached parity with the Federation, faction-agnostic content still reaches more players.)
I am well aware of how bad the game is in providing fitting dialog or mission mechanics, ignoring factions, player or NPC species, player ship capabilities or whatever. But the missions are still faction-agnostic in the sense that you can play them on your KDF character. I can understand wanting more. But that's just another argument to get rid of the faction-restrictions on ships (even though I personally dislike the idea for roleplaying reasons), for example - if Feds would be flying more KDF or RR ships, then taking cloak into account might become more desirable. (But probably it would not. I think Cryptic does not even do this in KDF or RR missions ever. Just because of the off-chance you happen to not fly a cloakable vessel, I suppose)
Because without it, cloaking would be a game breaker.
I would be interested in hearing how you suppose invisiblity could be "accounted for" in mission design without being "sabotaged." Given that the goal is to ensure players with the ability don't use it to skip half the mission.
Xenophobia... look it up.
The biggest problems with your posts is - you start dominating the threats. And so it all becomes all about you and your personal interpretations of statements and your point of view.
But look at the topic at hand - what is it actually about? What would it take to get you to play KDF?
You already play it. You could say: "Business as Usual would do it", because you already play it and be done. But instead you list all your grievances, with exacting precision and multi-paragraph posts, full of italic texts. That's all nice and dany to figure out what yo uwant for the KDF, but does it actually help to figure out an answer? You obviously think so, but - it's just your one single view point that now everyone will feel compelled to engage.
But what about the people that actually do not play KDF at all? What is causing this? Is it really relevant to them that the get uncloaked constantly during a mission? If they don't play KDF, they might not even know. They might know this from the Federation ships that have cloak, and yet they still play Fed.
Here you go had this some time ago
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes