Why not expand the information available about the Klingons region of space and how and whom they conflict with when it comes to expanding their own borders. We've seen the Romulan and Federation side of this. But what about their other borders.
They have a border, that as far as we have seen/can tell, is pushing the boundaries of known space. What are they encountering there? Use it as a reason why the Klingons, in the show, occasionally just vanish from the show. Maybe it is an enemy that they feel honor bound to hold against, and to do so alone. After all, it is their border isn't it? It is the might of their Empire versus the unknown. The ultimate test of a warrior.
Or maybe they are trying to push out past the edge of the Galaxy. Either in an effort to explore, expand, find resources etc. Or to take their Empire to another Galaxy.
Actually, Star Fleet Battles (and therefore, the first two Starfleet Command PC-games) featured that expanded Information about another race the klingons were fighting against... the hydrans. Sadly, it's not canon though. I liked the 'Snakes'... Eventually SFB became its own timeline (like Kelvin timeline): The General War Timeline
SFB had a pretty solid map that made the borders of the factions pretty clear. Klingons traditionally clashed with federation and hydran, while often being allied with romulans and lyrans (in a 'the enemy of my enemy'-kind relationship)
Before I leave, keep this in mind: As my previous wall'o'text expounded, there's more to playing, say, KDF, than the "space Barbie" aspects of "what does my ship look like, how are my forehead ridges arrainged, and what clothes can I wear?" - there's a whole mentality of "Klingons are primarily about honor and glory, with a willingness to fight for what they want and a willingness to step all over anything that stands in the way of them getting what they want" - a sharp contrast to the "holier than thou always right Federation of Roddenberry's TNG dream world".
If that (KDF mentality) is the only reason you won't play, and therefore buy KDF - again, say so. It might not be the "popular" vote, but it does reinforce that you prefer Cryptic's current "everyone's a goody-goody two shoes Federation type but doesn't realize it yet" mentality that's permeating current gameplay.
And you could display that mentality without the "little red blurbs" just the same.
But many other players would maybe like to just play some Space Barbie. Not selling them KDF stuff just means less people buying KDF stuff. Thus "KDF is unprofitable."
Display, yes. "Experience", most likely not.
At this point I do have to call that trolling. Nobody's "experience" can be that much dependent on seeing one line of red text in somr item stores, on items which you admitedly don't even want to buy.
You're missing the whole point I'm trying to make. The "experience" isn't predicated purely on "space Barbie" stuff that's bought from the C-store - read uniforms and ship meshes/skins. See below for an in-depth explanation.
And, for many (myself included), part of the "draw" to playing a KDF is the "little motivational things", as well as the "big" things like spaceships, etc.
To be honest, the reason my KDFs languish at the bottom of my character list is because after the what, Gre'thor arc, there's "nothing honestly KDF" to experience - other than "space Barbie" things like the look of my ship and the designs of my ridges.
As I wrote a "convoluted" history to "explain" away an Orion Fem Sci running around yelling "Q'apla! Honor and Glory!", I want her to "have" the entire experience of that. Snagging intel from DS9 when the Mirror Terrans show up. Out-Fedding a Feddie because "honor dictates it". Stuff like that, stuff which is being intentionally left out of the "current content designs" because of the whole "peace treaty" and "fact that KDF (or RR) doesn't sell". Nope, no matter how she managed to marry into and hijack her own minor house of the Empire, she's running around adhering to Prime Directives and handing over more latinum's worth of data to floaty dudettes because "it's the right thing to do"... I want that attitude, I can get it with 2 Vulcans, a Betazed, an alien, or 2 joined Trills - all 6 of which would do these things because they're already feddies.
And getting more of that "back" even isn't going to magically show up just because KDF "space Barbie" sales numbers increase, there needs to be more reasons that would "justify" the inclusion of said "textual side stories". "Singular Faction" isn't going to give us textual expansions with massive spikes of KDF sales either, otherwise we'd still have it / never have lost it. The only forseeable way to get that "whole experience" back is to maintain a separate faction that "practically mandates" including the experience, and having said faction at a level of "external support" that justifies it to someone - either the lead dev who doesn't really want to deal with it, or his bosses making him (again) do so because the playerbase supports the faction and losing that level of support is a financial dent.
Hence this thread - looking for "relatively simple" things to break the catch-22 and get back the "Klingon" and maybe even "Romulan" experiences...
Now who's living in a dream world? None of that's even a question. Nothing is going to give you separate story missions. That ship sailed years ago. Seriously, they even gave their precious new TOS faction only 6 unique missions.
The only thing the faction restrictions "practically mandates" is neglect.
Removing restrictions makes the factions equal in gameplay and provides increased potential for sales and therefore creation of KDF/Romulan content. That's the best we can realistically hope for.
To be dead blunt:
"We" (Read: Fans of the Klingon or Romulan "experience") had, and in some cases still "have", the faction specific content that "we" desire. Look no further than at the first 3 arcs of the Klingon or Romulan Mission Lists and the exact episodes contained therein to find "faction specific episodes". Replay the "Featured Events" Skirmish, 4018, and Breen (Cold Case?) to see at least the textual blurbs that provide Klingon motivations to do the "Federation's Dirty Work" while still being Klingon.
And tell me why, if it was good enough "then", it's not good enough "now"?
Because Geko was "forced" to create Klingon content then, but now that he's manipulated the metrics enough, he has "justification" to no longer do so. So no new Klingon content in anything written / remastered from the launch of Delta Rising on...
And the lack of "new" Klingon content is dwindling the "visible" Klingon support, which is being advanced as "further justifications" that a unifaction Federation-only world is necessary and "player desired" - coincidentally removing the one and only "gameplay feature" that could theoretically "force" the reintroduction of Klingon content. Because once the game's only got one faction, how can you twist someone's arm into creating content for a specifically defined group like a "minority faction", if there's no "visible minority faction" to design for?
And, considering the "rules" of the C-store vs Lockbox&Lobi system - all "post unification into one Federation faction" Klingon stuffs is "not Federation Faction" and therefore consigned to the Lockbox&Lobi system.
I may be joining a pipe dream wild goose chase, but I can stand tall in the future in saying "but I didn't want this to come to pass" when, say, the Cardassians are released as a "space Barbie centered micro-TOSesque-faction" that after a wonderfully Cardassian 6 episode introductory arc starts spouting off about the wonders of the Federation's Utopia and exemplifies unwavering adherence to the Federation's core tenants of doing the right thing because it's right and always following the Prime Directive - no matter what the "Cardassian experience" would indicate as the "Cardassian" reasons/ways of accomplishing the goals to be the one true savior of the Universe"...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Because Geko was "forced" to create Klingon content then, but now that he's manipulated the metrics enough, he has "justification" to no longer do so. So no new Klingon content in anything written / remastered from the launch of Delta Rising on...
I still strongly suspect that people are reading his words wrong here.
They were "forced" to make Klingon-specific content because the story-line wasn't in a place where one could do faction-agnostic content. That doesn't mean someone put a gun (literally or figuratively) to their head and forced them to do it against their will. They wanted to make story content available to Klingons. But due to the Klingon War, that basically necessitated making it also faction-specific, because Klingons and Federation had opposed interests and the story wouldn't make sense. But once they got the Klingon War out of the way, they were finally able to make story content that worked for all factions.
But this in turn, as Geko recently said, that means they are also practically forced to do only faction-agnostic content now, because faction-specific content requires the same work as faction-agnostic content, but affects only a subset of players.
I think a sub-faction like TOS and its story content can also only be justified because it is a way to attract new players. A nother KDF or RR only story-line isn't going to achieve that.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Because Geko was "forced" to create Klingon content then, but now that he's manipulated the metrics enough, he has "justification" to no longer do so. So no new Klingon content in anything written / remastered from the launch of Delta Rising on...
I still strongly suspect that people are reading his words wrong here.
They were "forced" to make Klingon-specific content because the story-line wasn't in a place where one could do faction-agnostic content. That doesn't mean someone put a gun (literally or figuratively) to their head and forced them to do it against their will. They wanted to make story content available to Klingons. But due to the Klingon War, that basically necessitated making it also faction-specific, because Klingons and Federation had opposed interests and the story wouldn't make sense. But once they got the Klingon War out of the way, they were finally able to make story content that worked for all factions.
But this in turn, as Geko recently said, that means they are also practically forced to do only faction-agnostic content now, because faction-specific content requires the same work as faction-agnostic content, but affects only a subset of players.
I think a sub-faction like TOS and its story content can also only be justified because it is a way to attract new players. A nother KDF or RR only story-line isn't going to achieve that.
Exactly. And TOS still only got a tiny fraction of the story content of RR, before booting the player into the normal Fed pipeline.
Faction-specific missions is one thing they don't even do for the Feds. That alone should say all that needs to be said about that.
Even before the war ends, missions are faction-agnostic where possible. With the Borg, True Way, Breen, etc whereever they could ignore the factions they have done so. Faction-specific content is only when you deal with internal matters or the opposing faction. They really don't want to make faction-specific missions.
There is such a thing as false hope. And anyone holding up dreams of separate faction storylines have more than their fair share of it.
There are quite a few other mmos out there with full-on faction specific storylines, even some that give the player more control over where their own story is going. Guess the devs of sto are just lazy, or can't be bothered, I'm still going to be using my orion a lot.
But this in turn, as Geko recently said, that means they are also practically forced to do only faction-agnostic content now, because faction-specific content requires the same work as faction-agnostic content, but affects only a subset of players...
The Delta arc is not faction agnostic. It is distinctly Federation, as is Futureproof and Yesterday's War. The Iconian arc is faction agnostic for some episodes, but most of it is solidly Federation. Nearly all the content that has come out for around 2 years has been Federation-centric.
From the content as presented, I can understand why some forum users take the harsher interpretation of Geko's comments.
Even before the war ends, missions are faction-agnostic where possible. With the Borg, True Way, Breen, etc whereever they could ignore the factions they have done so.
There is quite a difference between "faction agnostic" - read "no matter what 'team' is playing it, you're going to wind up in the same place" and "(uni-)faction agnostic" - read "we're not even going to bother recognizing that multiple factions are running this mission, it's 100% the same content from start to finish no matter what color you bring in".
The comparison is best illustrated in the "old" Cardassian arc. The KDF did not get the handful of "fed only" missions like saving the Tribbles or Drake's tests, but while they were running around in the anti-Smiley Mirror Universe missions, there was pop-ups and BOff references that clearly shown why the KDF might be running around smiting Terrans and swapping Orbs around, which "sadly" benefitted the Federation but wound up potentially benefitting the Empire more.
Now, in the "new" Cardassian "anti-Terran" arc, everyone runs the same exact mission, for the exact same reason, and is willing to do the exact same thing. Which is heavily balanced for the Federation's viewpoints.
Or that first shot into Drozana's past in Spectres. Lamentations about lack of body counts so that timelines are preserved while we're going to "heavy stun", and an accolade that recognizes "Klingon Stealth" is best served by stunning everyone to oblivion so station security can't see the trio of KDFers saving the day.
To further illustrate the differences in "faction agnositicim", again I'll ask something. Why's my House-hijacking Klingon-acting Orion Scientist "politely" telling a Cardassian that a Bajoran is allowed to be in the "Undine Threat Jenolan Conference" because "The Federation never excludes their member races"? After blindly, and willingly, following the orders of a Federation One-Star Admiral around...
Because Geko was "forced" to create Klingon content then, but now that he's manipulated the metrics enough, he has "justification" to no longer do so. So no new Klingon content in anything written / remastered from the launch of Delta Rising on...
I still strongly suspect that people are reading his words wrong here.
How? Prior to the "peace treaty", all "faction agnostic" content had to have "reasons" why the "enemy" KDF would be doing things that "clearly benefitted the Federation 'enemies'". Post "peace treaty", it's quietly subsumed that every KDF action is taken in support of their "erstwhile at least temporary" allies, whether or not it's the Klingon thing to do.
In practice, every mission written prior to the treaty had at least blurbs, every mission written (or "remastered") post-treaty has not. Even missions that "theoretically" take place pre-treaty, like the remastered Cardassian Arc (which coincidentally is taking place about the same time as Task Force Omega, because D'Vak invites the character over to participate before or in this arc, so the Klingon's been advanced to at least "cease fire to help stave off Borg"...)
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
No doubt that they could do a better job at making those little "faction" blurbs and faction-fitting alternate dialog options. But people shouldn't expect too much, either. The story will still be on rails that lead to next-episode-town.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I absolutely LOVE playing KDF (or KDF-allied ROM characters) ... until I want/need to start a PVE queue.
There aren't nearly enough KDF players to sustain KDF-only PVE queues ... unless you're willing to waste 10-15 minutes waiting for a queue to pop. I don't have that kind of time to just sit there and wait for a queue.
If the devs want more people to play KDF then they need to convert all PVE queues to cross-faction queues so that KDF players aren't stuck waiting around forever for other KDF players.
Yes, I know there are elite channels where I can ask for other KDF players to join a private queue, but I hate doing that. I just want to jump into a pug PVE as quickly as possible when I need to grind marks. I've been playing this game for so long I can practically solo most PVE queues if the other team members don't know what they're doing.
Waiting for other players to show up to PVE is what makes me default to my FED characters.
Heck, ALL 4 of my KDF characters are in T5 fleets with everything unlocked but NONE of my FED toons have unrestricted access to all the fleet gear and elite pets. That alone should make me want to play KDF ... but I don't want to wait for queues.
In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
Because Geko was "forced" to create Klingon content then, but now that he's manipulated the metrics enough, he has "justification" to no longer do so. So no new Klingon content in anything written / remastered from the launch of Delta Rising on...
I still strongly suspect that people are reading his words wrong here.
How? Prior to the "peace treaty", all "faction agnostic" content had to have "reasons" why the "enemy" KDF would be doing things that "clearly benefitted the Federation 'enemies'". Post "peace treaty", it's quietly subsumed that every KDF action is taken in support of their "erstwhile at least temporary" allies, whether or not it's the Klingon thing to do.
In practice, every mission written prior to the treaty had at least blurbs, every mission written (or "remastered") post-treaty has not. Even missions that "theoretically" take place pre-treaty, like the remastered Cardassian Arc (which coincidentally is taking place about the same time as Task Force Omega, because D'Vak invites the character over to participate before or in this arc, so the Klingon's been advanced to at least "cease fire to help stave off Borg"...)
So what? There's a peace treaty now and they're not going to write it out just because you want Klingons act all antagonistic at the Federation again.
There were never enough Kdf players for pvp even at launch.
I remember wanting a Klingon more at launch, so once it was available I created a Klingon during the original pvp only leveling.
It was fun don't get me wrong but you rarely won as there weren't enough kdf to fill the team most matches .
You could level but it wasn't really very fun.
Then the devs added some pve in the form of some missions in nebulas. Which again were fun but not spectacular.
My memory is a bit vague from there but I believe they then released a few episodes for kdf like second star to the left and something involving the house of martok.
We did then get the feklir episodes which remain some the crappiest content in the game. I dead the last boss every time lol.
Then we got the frankly excellent currently tutorial and missions which teach a great deal about Klingon lore and are a lot of fun.
Overall I love Klingon play and my kdf main loves nothing more than charging into battle in a tier 5 u brel.
Would I like more Klingon content ? Sure but it's very unlikely. What I would like to see is some Klingon/ romulan/ federation episodes based off the huge war simulation in the game Klingon academy. As the majority of the missions would be the same but from different perspectives it is not hugely intensive for development but fun for all sides.
There were never enough Kdf players for pvp even at launch.
I remember wanting a Klingon more at launch, so once it was available I created a Klingon during the original pvp only leveling.
It was fun don't get me wrong but you rarely won as there weren't enough kdf to fill the team most matches .
You could level but it wasn't really very fun.
Then the devs added some pve in the form of some missions in nebulas. Which again were fun but not spectacular.
My memory is a bit vague from there but I believe they then released a few episodes for kdf like second star to the left and something involving the house of martok.
We did then get the feklir episodes which remain some the crappiest content in the game. I dead the last boss every time lol.
Then we got the frankly excellent currently tutorial and missions which teach a great deal about Klingon lore and are a lot of fun.
Overall I love Klingon play and my kdf main loves nothing more than charging into battle in a tier 5 u brel.
Would I like more Klingon content ? Sure but it's very unlikely. What I would like to see is some Klingon/ romulan/ federation episodes based off the huge war simulation in the game Klingon academy. As the majority of the missions would be the same but from different perspectives it is not hugely intensive for development but fun for all sides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1JRMJXut8I
That be a dream come true. Klingon Academy was awesome and none of the Cryptic storylines can match it. I don't see this ever happening though. Feds wouldn't be too happy with KDF getting too much attention.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I have 3 Klingon characters of which 1 I use on a regular basis. The simple honest truth, in my case, is two of the Klingon characters I started very early on in the game. I played them regularly until it became more and more difficult to get the " good" gear. By difficult I mean Grindy. I think the Rep system is what killed my interest in the my first Klingon toons. I have 12 Fed toons and had to run each one through the rep system, but with all my resources being devoted to them, when I did go one of my Klingons for something different I was always way behind the curve on gear, resources, etc. I created a Klingon during the Delta Event and enjoy playing her very much, I've attempted to go back and bring my other Klingons up to snuff but one HUGE thing is stopping me: Fleet gear. It may not seem like much, but just about ALL my feds have at least one loadout of fleet weapons, and several fleet consoles. They may not be " the best" in the game, however in combo with the reputation passives I can hold my own on my Alts in just about any mission. With my two unused Klingons NOT have any rep passives, and not having access to fleet gear, I would have to buy ALOT of fear off the exchange. Which is fine, however those toons don't have a lot of resources either. Its a catch 22 to say the least.
As far as the " content" thing goes, sure it would be nice to have episodes that lean more towards the Klingons, and more towards the Romulans but I reluctantly agree with Geko on this one. Its not really feasible. I DONT agree with his reasons at all because it's a " chicken and the egg" argument, but I understand where cryptic is coming from.
If Klingon Fleets where allowed to join Federation armadas I personally would spend many hours getting my two unused Klingons up to at least a respectable level of usefulness. I would invest resources into them, I would work them through the reputation system. All with the goal of outfitting them with Fleet gear and trying different things on them.
Honestly I don't see what the big deal would be. A Klingon character would still have to be in a fleet that has provisions projects completed. This would also allow Fed fleets to invest in Klingon fleets and perhaps remove some of the " overflow" of dilithium that apparently exists? Wouldn't it be the equivalent of the U.S. having a navy base in Japan? The two countries share resources, but our there own separate entities? Ok,, bad analogy,, but that's all I got. That's my two cents for the day.
*************************** Fleet Admiral In charge of Bacon Fighting 5th Attack Squadron The Devils Henchman
Because Geko was "forced" to create Klingon content then, but now that he's manipulated the metrics enough, he has "justification" to no longer do so. So no new Klingon content in anything written / remastered from the launch of Delta Rising on...
I still strongly suspect that people are reading his words wrong here.
They were "forced" to make Klingon-specific content because the story-line wasn't in a place where one could do faction-agnostic content. That doesn't mean someone put a gun (literally or figuratively) to their head and forced them to do it against their will. They wanted to make story content available to Klingons. But due to the Klingon War, that basically necessitated making it also faction-specific, because Klingons and Federation had opposed interests and the story wouldn't make sense. But once they got the Klingon War out of the way, they were finally able to make story content that worked for all factions.
But this in turn, as Geko recently said, that means they are also practically forced to do only faction-agnostic content now, because faction-specific content requires the same work as faction-agnostic content, but affects only a subset of players.
I think a sub-faction like TOS and its story content can also only be justified because it is a way to attract new players. A nother KDF or RR only story-line isn't going to achieve that.
again you fail to compare words to actions, Mustrum. The interpretation you're opposed to, fits the actions of cryptic, while the version you insist upon, does not.
We can go over specifics, if you like, but I doubt it would make much difference. When you look over the pattern of behaviour and compare it to the pattern of actions, Geko's words meet his actions more seamlessly if one presumes antipathy, rather than sympathy or neutrality.
Self-reinforcing decisions at every step, including how 'attempts' were framed and carried out, indicates a reluctance or hostility toward actual development of a true multi-faction environment. Interview statements going back over the last six years included statements that...
"...KDF is Monsterplay.." (Geko, 2013)
"...I hate working on Klingon ships..." (Geko, 2012)
"KDF is unprofitable" (Geko, 2011, after the free-to-play transition and the failure of the Bortasque to sell well, this being the period of time that saw NO KDF material added. WE're still stuck with the caveman outfits for the Academy set as our only purchase-able costume items in the C-store...)
"...we were FORCED to make...faction agnostic missions" (Geko, 2016, you actually brought this up yourself)
"...no longer FORCED to make Faction specific content.." (Geko, explaining the benefits of removing the faction-based PvP queues and ending the KDF/Fed war storyline, 2014)
"...forced to delay the Klingon ship...need the artists to work on the Voth..."-roughly what was said, I admit not having the full quote-but, this was about a week before the Avenger class, the First battlecruiser for the FEderation, was given a surprise release, the Mogh (nearly identical stats) had to wait three months. The Avenger was not announced prior to release, the Klingon ship had been, and the KDF players accepted (grudgingly) the explanation right up to the point that "Surprise, new FEDERATION SHIP!!!" with a new (Black) hull material was rolled out. This was trolling the playerbase, Mustrum, That Avenger was, for quite a while after, the best Battlecruiser in the game, it was the first one for the Feds, it incorporated most of the suggested upgrades KDF players had lobbied for in a Tier 5 c-store Negh'var, and incorporated seating-fixes proposed by Tor'kaht users.
There are, of course, more. There are also indirect statements...
In the podcast interview promoting the Delta Recruits event, Geko emphasized making fed and Romulan alts for your Delta Recruit, and the host had to prompt him to mention KDF at all-the tone and delivery indicated it was a subject he didn't want to discuss.
STAHL was the driving force behind the 1-20 missions for KDF. This is confirmed by interview content mentioning it in 2013, before D.Stahl was put to the side in favour of D'Angelo as executive producer. Dan Stahl may have been the only reason KDF got the Fleet ships in their fleet store at all, given the utter and complete content drought from 2011 to 2014.
Crypticjoejing had to do the most recent revamp/bugfix on KDF costumes and appearance for free, as in on his unpaid time.
HIs excuses about "Lack of Canon content" fall apart when you consider the existence of Dinosaurs with Lasers on their Heads, "artillery ships", the development of a full-blown 'badguy' from a single throwaway episode of the following:
TNG
Voyager
Enterprise
we have more on the background of the single-episode Bluegills than we do on how the Klingons built their coalition to include Gorn, Romulan, Lethean, and Nausicaans. There's more material on Bluegills than on Letheans, clearer motivational development on the Voth, than on the Gorn, etc. etc. NPC's got more development than a Player Faction from the Lead Developer.
NPC's, derived from single episodes, Mustrum. The Voth weren't even an ongoing line in Voyager, the Bluegills never appeared on screen after that single episode of TNG, the Vads? same thing-Voyager, the Elachi? ditto, iirc Enterprise.
Sum total of the Iconians on TNG? One computer virus. That's it.
he's treated an entire player faction like a one-shot NPC that becomes the NPC hench for the hero.
since 2011.
The only times he hasn't, has been when someone above him at Cryptic FORCED HIM to do so, and was looking over his shoulder to make sure he doesn't half-**** it. (2800 storyline being a prime example of genuine 'Cross-Faction' mission work, specifically the first mission and "Of Bajor".) the bulk of the rest, were formulated as Starfleet, written that way, and had tags 'ironed over' to 'make' them 'cross-faction'. (Glaring examples include the Drozana mission string and the Undine Advance as you're leveling, followed by the entirety of "Delta Rising" and the Iconian War, where the Klingon-esque episodes highlit a 'Caveman with a napoleon complex' interpretation featuring a Klingon Empire that was completely and utterly incompetent at the tasks they're canonically supposed to be good at.)
Attitude carries over. It can be in subtle ways, or not-so-subtle ways.
Seriously, do you always need to write a full page post just to respond to anything?
The advantage of extrapolating of something like the Voth or the Krenim or the Bluegills is - it's not faction-specific. They can be villains for everyone. And since they are mostly blank state, they have a lot of freedom there, too.
If they do something KDF-specific, it all must fit all together. And ideally (in the mind of some players at least) be faction-specific, as in only for KDF characters. That's not gonna happen. Ever again.
But they did that for Klingon stuff, too. They found a place for the story of the mysterious time travellers that allegedly supported the Klingons in the Temporal Cold War. They fleshed out the Fek'lhr. They picked up elements from the story with future Alexander.
So the only way they will do KDF related content and extrapolate on basic stuff now is if they can spin it into a story that everyone can partake in. Like they did in the Iconian War. House of Pegh, Khaless, Kagran, all the stuff happening on Q'onos. But we already know that some KDF fans aren't satisfied with that. Tough luck, I think.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if they revamp the Fek'lhri content and make it faction-agnostic, too. Which will certainly TRIBBLE off the same people that are dissatisfied with the Iconian War Klingons. IF they aren't doing that, they might not revamp it at all. Best case is that they continue the storyline (faction-agnostic from that point on) - the current story arc suggest an involvement with the Hur'q, and they seem to have traces found in the Gamma Quadrant, so a natural area to explore for the future story.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
It would help if "faction agnostic" was actually that, instead of "FED faction content that the others can access."
The current "faction agnostic" content is not that at all. They make FED content. They allow KDF and ROMs to play it. Most of it makes little to no sense as anything but a FED mission.
Throwing "faction agnostic" around like some kind of example of compromise isn't that. Not in STO. Because, clearly, they either are unable or unwilling to make anything other than Starfleet storylines. For them to be truly "faction agnostic," they would make the same amount of sense for all 3 f(r)actions. They most certainly do not.
Nothing wrong with making "faction agnostic" content. But that's not really what they're making. They're making Starfleet content that says "I suppose the others can play it, even though it makes no sense for them" and calling it a day.
Oh please... it is a known fact that not ALL cross faction stuff is written for Feds... Nimbus was not. A lot of the Delta Q stuff makes just as much sense for the KDF as the Feds. Let's face it... Klingon warriors would be happy to go around wasting Vaadwaur. Negotiating with Kazon to secure their later employment? Orions would totally do that. Probably Nausicaans and Letheans too.
Because Geko was "forced" to create Klingon content then, but now that he's manipulated the metrics enough, he has "justification" to no longer do so. So no new Klingon content in anything written / remastered from the launch of Delta Rising on...
I still strongly suspect that people are reading his words wrong here.
How? Prior to the "peace treaty", all "faction agnostic" content had to have "reasons" why the "enemy" KDF would be doing things that "clearly benefitted the Federation 'enemies'". Post "peace treaty", it's quietly subsumed that every KDF action is taken in support of their "erstwhile at least temporary" allies, whether or not it's the Klingon thing to do.
In practice, every mission written prior to the treaty had at least blurbs, every mission written (or "remastered") post-treaty has not. Even missions that "theoretically" take place pre-treaty, like the remastered Cardassian Arc (which coincidentally is taking place about the same time as Task Force Omega, because D'Vak invites the character over to participate before or in this arc, so the Klingon's been advanced to at least "cease fire to help stave off Borg"...)
So what? There's a peace treaty now and they're not going to write it out just because you want Klingons act all antagonistic at the Federation again.
I think I've been saying that I want my Klingons to have motives that revolve around Honor, Glory, and finding ways to benefit the Empire. Not to be running around kowtowing to lieutenants or commanders that are saying that we can't chase down the Kobali because of the Prime Directive or telling Cardassians to have a seat because we're supportive of Bajor's position in the Federation.
But, I'm sure most "garden variety Klingons" would have relished the chance to throw a "dig" at Captain Kim about how the Empire plans to honor the "alliance's commitment" to rescuing these Kobali, as long as they aren't rebirthing the Klingons out of Sto'Vo'Kor, long before kitty "Prime Directive" comes along and throws her 2 credits in.
Why doesn't my Klingon stare down L'Miren or whoever Ms. Iconian who hijacked me to her flagship because I got me a World Heart? Klingons don't take tasks "from the gods", and they sure as heck ain't afraid of calling one out... After a touch of defiance, then I'd hand over the World Heart to stop the war.
Same with that batch of Prophets who desperately need my help to fix the swapped orb problem that takes me to mirror-Hathon. If the Prophets promise to commission a song about the deed (when done) I'd have a lot more reasons to brave all that stuff. (Dahar Master, we know that you don't believe tasks set before you by such as us are worthy. However, the importance of this particular task leads us to offer your name and deed in song to be sang by Bajorans a century from now upon it's completion. Fix the imbalance blather blather...)
Stuff like this. Throughly Klingon, gets us to the same point as everyone else, and doesn't cost a fortune to implement. Also, if appropriate enough, drivers to get people to play the missions again so they can read all these textual nuggets - which might inspire an actual KDF ship purchase, etc. etc.
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Oh please... it is a known fact that not ALL cross faction stuff is written for Feds... Nimbus was not. A lot of the Delta Q stuff makes just as much sense for the KDF as the Feds. Let's face it... Klingon warriors would be happy to go around wasting Vaadwaur. Negotiating with Kazon to secure their later employment? Orions would totally do that. Probably Nausicaans and Letheans too.
Klingons would waste them. Orions wouldn't employ, they would enslave them and sell them to the highest bidder. Who cares what Nausicaans and Letheans do, they get hired by almost everybody with deep pockets.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Oh please... it is a known fact that not ALL cross faction stuff is written for Feds... Nimbus was not. A lot of the Delta Q stuff makes just as much sense for the KDF as the Feds. Let's face it... Klingon warriors would be happy to go around wasting Vaadwaur. Negotiating with Kazon to secure their later employment? Orions would totally do that. Probably Nausicaans and Letheans too.
"Known fact." Care to support that with anything? And it's implied that I'm speaking about things post-"we don't have to..." anyway, although much of what comes before is just as bad.
Most of the Delta stuff was FED content, and very, very little of it made any sense for a KDF character. Doing chores for Talaxians? Following the Prime Directive just because Harry Kim? It makes no sense. Even many FED-only players voiced their dissatisfaction with helping the Kobali when the content was released, and Klingons have no Prime Directive. They likely would do what they do (read: threaten/kill the Kobali) and deal with the consequences later. "Hey, look, Voyager!" What Klingon/Orion/Gorn/Reman/etc would care?
You kinda have to really want to believe it's all "faction agnostic" to just disregard all of this stuff. The best was the "I miss them too" sadness coming from a player's KDF character in the Iconian arc. Just cringeworthy.
I remember that episode... My Klingon bridge officer started crying and saying was this war really worth it? Almost made me gag all over my monitor... Since when the hell would a Klingon/Romulan have a 'friend' on board federation starship? She grew up with them? wtf? come on... I usually have to skip all the cringe worthy stuff and watch episode of TNG just to forget all of it. And don't get me started on the Alliance... I sleep better at night knowing this isn't canon.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
LOL I'm glad to know I'm not alone in noticing a lot of the glaring holes in the "faction agnostic" theory. There are so many examples of how the episodic content is geared specifically toward Fed characters and make absolutely no sense if you're playing KDF. I'm not disagreeing with the "faction agnostic" strategy- hell, if it works, then great- but to say it's all faction-agnostic already and ignore the facts is ridiculous.
With AOY- it's not a TOS "sub faction" it's plainly more Fed-only content masquerading as a sub-faction release. Eventually the AOY characters get full access to everything Fed within a few episodes of play.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
I don't mind other factions working together, as long as the story makes sense and is remotely believable. Sure they work with each other few situations and because it was convenient. And just because it's on some paper doesn't amount to squat. Klingons and Romulans break their treaties all the time. And the Federation can't enforce it.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Seriously, do you always need to write a full page post just to respond to anything?
The advantage of extrapolating of something like the Voth or the Krenim or the Bluegills is - it's not faction-specific. They can be villains for everyone. And since they are mostly blank state, they have a lot of freedom there, too.
The problem is that they spent more time on villains then was spent on giving the KDF any sense of continuity or identity, since the faction's inception.
I enjoy the content Cryptic creates. I'm not trying to beat them up as much as explain my frustration.
If they do something KDF-specific, it all must fit all together. And ideally (in the mind of some players at least) be faction-specific, as in only for KDF characters. That's not gonna happen. Ever again.
But they did that for Klingon stuff, too. They found a place for the story of the mysterious time travellers that allegedly supported the Klingons in the Temporal Cold War. They fleshed out the Fek'lhr. They picked up elements from the story with future Alexander.
The problem goes to the root. The faction itself has no core identity. Some lines about "honor" and "glory" mean nothing to this discount-Federation faction.
It's like if you played Federation content and everyone called your character an Andorian, regardless of what race you actually played. Mission after mission of NPCs telling you that your homeworld of Andoria is proud of you, and you constantly get praised for being a great Andorian Warlord. Then Cryptic adds a few more lines of "Andorian Honor" to some Iconian mission and that is supposed to represent the Federation.
So the only way they will do KDF related content and extrapolate on basic stuff now is if they can spin it into a story that everyone can partake in.
I seriously hope they do. My wish, would be for separate views of similar missions. I would like to see a revamp of the Federation and Klingon tutorial arcs.
"You can tell alot about a person by the quality of their enemies."
There is plenty of good material on these very forums to form the basis of the KDF. This "new defense force" could form as a public declaration of these forces refusing to bow to the political and cultural pressure of the Federation. Gorn, Klingon, Nausicaan, Lethian, and Orion, united in defiance of cultural and military assimilation by the Federation.
Lots of players would also think this is a bad idea, and I think it would be realistic to include that in this "new defense force". Hardened military leaders who think little of their "allies", and feel the entire thing is just a political farce. Let each entry in the tutorial give a little slice of culture for each member of the "new defense force", each one saying how this is a bad idea and how it won't work.
On the Fed side, the player would hear rumbles of this "new defense force" that threatens the balance of power in the galaxy, while giving the player the opportunity to visit Andoria, Vulcan, Tellar, etc, letting them see some of the culture of Fed worlds.
Meanwhile, on the Red side, Fek'lhri return. And start wrecking stuff. Blood is spilt. Glory is won. Maybe even a betrayal or two. At the end, the player and Kah'less kick butt and the player grudgingly gains approval from those in charge. The Red side is still somewhat dysfunctional, and wary of it's members, but it works. Blue side gets a little worried that Red side can curb stomp actual freaking demons.
All they have to do at this point, is maintain the identity that the "new defense force" is made up of semi-reluctant allies who, at times, work at odds to each other. Maybe segue that "new defense force" paves the way for the galactic powers to come to grips with each other's differences and eventually become the Grand Alliance or whatever.
I realize that asking for faction identity also means asking for new content, but I feel it is strongly needed. The KDF has no identity, and I feel that hurts the faction more than lack of ships or costumes or anything else.
Personally, I think it's "put up or shut up" time for PWE/C in respect to KDF and the faction system. Either they need to really work with KDF to bring it up to par with Fed, (or at least as close as possible) or they need to stop making excuses as to why it didn't happen, won't happen blah blah and just make it all Delta or something.
If you truly weren't "forced" to create KDF content and just had limited resources, didn't have the stomach for it, whatever the FOTM excuse was here, great. But let's move forward and put your dev time and resources where your mouth is.
Otherwise, be expected to hear from the masses who aren't satisfied with the system as it stands- actions have consequence.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
I also think perhaps PWE/C needs to start doing some contests in regard to Episodic mission content which may help in improving things as well. We have quite a few very talented players who've developed Foundry missions, very creative and unique stories. Perhaps if their current team isn't "up to the task" here, the players who create Foundry missions would be willing to generate said content instead. Hell, they can go as far as ship design contests, for that matter- that are voted on by the community.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
I guess I don't understand the question. I already play a KDF captain now (Orion with a partially tricked out Narcine).
The content we have now doesn't capture the multi-cultural nature of the Empire. It's pretty much textbook biting off more than you can chew that the Klingons are playable at all, and frankly the game would be better of in terms of uniformity of writing quality if you couldn't.
I actively hope they scrap KDF/Romulans as playable factions in the console version at launch. It might give them incentive to do a substantial polish pass on their unique content before making a big deal about introducing the 'half-factions' to the console audience.
If you're asking what would make me inclined to play them more it would be better equality of access to ship traits/admiralty cards and maybe a fleet that wasn't all but dead and not even half-built compared to the ones that swamp my new Fed captains with join offers before they can even get off of ESD. Far too much of this game's endgame activities and vendors rely on a critical mass of players that just isn't there.
Oh please... it is a known fact that not ALL cross faction stuff is written for Feds... Nimbus was not.
"Known fact." Care to support that with anything?
Nimbus was a part of the Romulan Republic story that go made cross faction and tied to a ground battle zone. I mean seriously... the final mission is to infiltrate a Tal-Shiar base and steal their secrets....
I guess I don't understand the question. I already play a KDF captain now (Orion with a partially tricked out Narcine).
The content we have now doesn't capture the multi-cultural nature of the Empire. It's pretty much textbook biting off more than you can chew that the Klingons are playable at all, and frankly the game would be better of in terms of uniformity of writing quality if you couldn't.
I actively hope they scrap KDF/Romulans as playable factions in the console version at launch. It might give them incentive to do a substantial polish pass on their unique content before making a big deal about introducing the 'half-factions' to the console audience.
If you're asking what would make me inclined to play them moreit would be better equality of access to ship traits/admiralty cards and maybe a fleet that wasn't all but dead and not even half-built compared to the ones that swamp my new Fed captains with join offers before they can even get off of ESD. Far too much of this game's endgame activities and vendors rely on a critical mass of players that just isn't there.
When was the last time you went shopping for a KDF fleet to join? When was the last time you took initiative to befriend fellow KDF players, and see about forming your own fleet? What about bringing RL friends in, and forming up a KDF fleet with them?
Comments
I enjoy those games. Great games.
You're missing the whole point I'm trying to make. The "experience" isn't predicated purely on "space Barbie" stuff that's bought from the C-store - read uniforms and ship meshes/skins. See below for an in-depth explanation.
To be dead blunt:
"We" (Read: Fans of the Klingon or Romulan "experience") had, and in some cases still "have", the faction specific content that "we" desire. Look no further than at the first 3 arcs of the Klingon or Romulan Mission Lists and the exact episodes contained therein to find "faction specific episodes". Replay the "Featured Events" Skirmish, 4018, and Breen (Cold Case?) to see at least the textual blurbs that provide Klingon motivations to do the "Federation's Dirty Work" while still being Klingon.
And tell me why, if it was good enough "then", it's not good enough "now"?
Because Geko was "forced" to create Klingon content then, but now that he's manipulated the metrics enough, he has "justification" to no longer do so. So no new Klingon content in anything written / remastered from the launch of Delta Rising on...
And the lack of "new" Klingon content is dwindling the "visible" Klingon support, which is being advanced as "further justifications" that a unifaction Federation-only world is necessary and "player desired" - coincidentally removing the one and only "gameplay feature" that could theoretically "force" the reintroduction of Klingon content. Because once the game's only got one faction, how can you twist someone's arm into creating content for a specifically defined group like a "minority faction", if there's no "visible minority faction" to design for?
And, considering the "rules" of the C-store vs Lockbox&Lobi system - all "post unification into one Federation faction" Klingon stuffs is "not Federation Faction" and therefore consigned to the Lockbox&Lobi system.
I may be joining a pipe dream wild goose chase, but I can stand tall in the future in saying "but I didn't want this to come to pass" when, say, the Cardassians are released as a "space Barbie centered micro-TOSesque-faction" that after a wonderfully Cardassian 6 episode introductory arc starts spouting off about the wonders of the Federation's Utopia and exemplifies unwavering adherence to the Federation's core tenants of doing the right thing because it's right and always following the Prime Directive - no matter what the "Cardassian experience" would indicate as the "Cardassian" reasons/ways of accomplishing the goals to be the one true savior of the Universe"...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
They were "forced" to make Klingon-specific content because the story-line wasn't in a place where one could do faction-agnostic content. That doesn't mean someone put a gun (literally or figuratively) to their head and forced them to do it against their will. They wanted to make story content available to Klingons. But due to the Klingon War, that basically necessitated making it also faction-specific, because Klingons and Federation had opposed interests and the story wouldn't make sense. But once they got the Klingon War out of the way, they were finally able to make story content that worked for all factions.
But this in turn, as Geko recently said, that means they are also practically forced to do only faction-agnostic content now, because faction-specific content requires the same work as faction-agnostic content, but affects only a subset of players.
I think a sub-faction like TOS and its story content can also only be justified because it is a way to attract new players. A nother KDF or RR only story-line isn't going to achieve that.
Faction-specific missions is one thing they don't even do for the Feds. That alone should say all that needs to be said about that.
Even before the war ends, missions are faction-agnostic where possible. With the Borg, True Way, Breen, etc whereever they could ignore the factions they have done so. Faction-specific content is only when you deal with internal matters or the opposing faction. They really don't want to make faction-specific missions.
There is such a thing as false hope. And anyone holding up dreams of separate faction storylines have more than their fair share of it.
The Delta arc is not faction agnostic. It is distinctly Federation, as is Futureproof and Yesterday's War. The Iconian arc is faction agnostic for some episodes, but most of it is solidly Federation. Nearly all the content that has come out for around 2 years has been Federation-centric.
From the content as presented, I can understand why some forum users take the harsher interpretation of Geko's comments.
There is quite a difference between "faction agnostic" - read "no matter what 'team' is playing it, you're going to wind up in the same place" and "(uni-)faction agnostic" - read "we're not even going to bother recognizing that multiple factions are running this mission, it's 100% the same content from start to finish no matter what color you bring in".
The comparison is best illustrated in the "old" Cardassian arc. The KDF did not get the handful of "fed only" missions like saving the Tribbles or Drake's tests, but while they were running around in the anti-Smiley Mirror Universe missions, there was pop-ups and BOff references that clearly shown why the KDF might be running around smiting Terrans and swapping Orbs around, which "sadly" benefitted the Federation but wound up potentially benefitting the Empire more.
Now, in the "new" Cardassian "anti-Terran" arc, everyone runs the same exact mission, for the exact same reason, and is willing to do the exact same thing. Which is heavily balanced for the Federation's viewpoints.
Or that first shot into Drozana's past in Spectres. Lamentations about lack of body counts so that timelines are preserved while we're going to "heavy stun", and an accolade that recognizes "Klingon Stealth" is best served by stunning everyone to oblivion so station security can't see the trio of KDFers saving the day.
To further illustrate the differences in "faction agnositicim", again I'll ask something. Why's my House-hijacking Klingon-acting Orion Scientist "politely" telling a Cardassian that a Bajoran is allowed to be in the "Undine Threat Jenolan Conference" because "The Federation never excludes their member races"? After blindly, and willingly, following the orders of a Federation One-Star Admiral around...
How? Prior to the "peace treaty", all "faction agnostic" content had to have "reasons" why the "enemy" KDF would be doing things that "clearly benefitted the Federation 'enemies'". Post "peace treaty", it's quietly subsumed that every KDF action is taken in support of their "erstwhile at least temporary" allies, whether or not it's the Klingon thing to do.
In practice, every mission written prior to the treaty had at least blurbs, every mission written (or "remastered") post-treaty has not. Even missions that "theoretically" take place pre-treaty, like the remastered Cardassian Arc (which coincidentally is taking place about the same time as Task Force Omega, because D'Vak invites the character over to participate before or in this arc, so the Klingon's been advanced to at least "cease fire to help stave off Borg"...)
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
There aren't nearly enough KDF players to sustain KDF-only PVE queues ... unless you're willing to waste 10-15 minutes waiting for a queue to pop. I don't have that kind of time to just sit there and wait for a queue.
If the devs want more people to play KDF then they need to convert all PVE queues to cross-faction queues so that KDF players aren't stuck waiting around forever for other KDF players.
Yes, I know there are elite channels where I can ask for other KDF players to join a private queue, but I hate doing that. I just want to jump into a pug PVE as quickly as possible when I need to grind marks. I've been playing this game for so long I can practically solo most PVE queues if the other team members don't know what they're doing.
Waiting for other players to show up to PVE is what makes me default to my FED characters.
Heck, ALL 4 of my KDF characters are in T5 fleets with everything unlocked but NONE of my FED toons have unrestricted access to all the fleet gear and elite pets. That alone should make me want to play KDF ... but I don't want to wait for queues.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
So what? There's a peace treaty now and they're not going to write it out just because you want Klingons act all antagonistic at the Federation again.
I remember wanting a Klingon more at launch, so once it was available I created a Klingon during the original pvp only leveling.
It was fun don't get me wrong but you rarely won as there weren't enough kdf to fill the team most matches .
You could level but it wasn't really very fun.
Then the devs added some pve in the form of some missions in nebulas. Which again were fun but not spectacular.
My memory is a bit vague from there but I believe they then released a few episodes for kdf like second star to the left and something involving the house of martok.
We did then get the feklir episodes which remain some the crappiest content in the game. I dead the last boss every time lol.
Then we got the frankly excellent currently tutorial and missions which teach a great deal about Klingon lore and are a lot of fun.
Overall I love Klingon play and my kdf main loves nothing more than charging into battle in a tier 5 u brel.
Would I like more Klingon content ? Sure but it's very unlikely. What I would like to see is some Klingon/ romulan/ federation episodes based off the huge war simulation in the game Klingon academy. As the majority of the missions would be the same but from different perspectives it is not hugely intensive for development but fun for all sides.
That be a dream come true. Klingon Academy was awesome and none of the Cryptic storylines can match it. I don't see this ever happening though. Feds wouldn't be too happy with KDF getting too much attention.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
As far as the " content" thing goes, sure it would be nice to have episodes that lean more towards the Klingons, and more towards the Romulans but I reluctantly agree with Geko on this one. Its not really feasible. I DONT agree with his reasons at all because it's a " chicken and the egg" argument, but I understand where cryptic is coming from.
If Klingon Fleets where allowed to join Federation armadas I personally would spend many hours getting my two unused Klingons up to at least a respectable level of usefulness. I would invest resources into them, I would work them through the reputation system. All with the goal of outfitting them with Fleet gear and trying different things on them.
Honestly I don't see what the big deal would be. A Klingon character would still have to be in a fleet that has provisions projects completed. This would also allow Fed fleets to invest in Klingon fleets and perhaps remove some of the " overflow" of dilithium that apparently exists? Wouldn't it be the equivalent of the U.S. having a navy base in Japan? The two countries share resources, but our there own separate entities? Ok,, bad analogy,, but that's all I got. That's my two cents for the day.
Fleet Admiral In charge of Bacon
Fighting 5th Attack Squadron
The Devils Henchman
Seriously, do you always need to write a full page post just to respond to anything?
The advantage of extrapolating of something like the Voth or the Krenim or the Bluegills is - it's not faction-specific. They can be villains for everyone. And since they are mostly blank state, they have a lot of freedom there, too.
If they do something KDF-specific, it all must fit all together. And ideally (in the mind of some players at least) be faction-specific, as in only for KDF characters. That's not gonna happen. Ever again.
But they did that for Klingon stuff, too. They found a place for the story of the mysterious time travellers that allegedly supported the Klingons in the Temporal Cold War. They fleshed out the Fek'lhr. They picked up elements from the story with future Alexander.
So the only way they will do KDF related content and extrapolate on basic stuff now is if they can spin it into a story that everyone can partake in. Like they did in the Iconian War. House of Pegh, Khaless, Kagran, all the stuff happening on Q'onos. But we already know that some KDF fans aren't satisfied with that. Tough luck, I think.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if they revamp the Fek'lhri content and make it faction-agnostic, too. Which will certainly TRIBBLE off the same people that are dissatisfied with the Iconian War Klingons. IF they aren't doing that, they might not revamp it at all. Best case is that they continue the storyline (faction-agnostic from that point on) - the current story arc suggest an involvement with the Hur'q, and they seem to have traces found in the Gamma Quadrant, so a natural area to explore for the future story.
The current "faction agnostic" content is not that at all. They make FED content. They allow KDF and ROMs to play it. Most of it makes little to no sense as anything but a FED mission.
Throwing "faction agnostic" around like some kind of example of compromise isn't that. Not in STO. Because, clearly, they either are unable or unwilling to make anything other than Starfleet storylines. For them to be truly "faction agnostic," they would make the same amount of sense for all 3 f(r)actions. They most certainly do not.
Nothing wrong with making "faction agnostic" content. But that's not really what they're making. They're making Starfleet content that says "I suppose the others can play it, even though it makes no sense for them" and calling it a day.
My character Tsin'xing
I think I've been saying that I want my Klingons to have motives that revolve around Honor, Glory, and finding ways to benefit the Empire. Not to be running around kowtowing to lieutenants or commanders that are saying that we can't chase down the Kobali because of the Prime Directive or telling Cardassians to have a seat because we're supportive of Bajor's position in the Federation.
But, I'm sure most "garden variety Klingons" would have relished the chance to throw a "dig" at Captain Kim about how the Empire plans to honor the "alliance's commitment" to rescuing these Kobali, as long as they aren't rebirthing the Klingons out of Sto'Vo'Kor, long before kitty "Prime Directive" comes along and throws her 2 credits in.
Why doesn't my Klingon stare down L'Miren or whoever Ms. Iconian who hijacked me to her flagship because I got me a World Heart? Klingons don't take tasks "from the gods", and they sure as heck ain't afraid of calling one out... After a touch of defiance, then I'd hand over the World Heart to stop the war.
Same with that batch of Prophets who desperately need my help to fix the swapped orb problem that takes me to mirror-Hathon. If the Prophets promise to commission a song about the deed (when done) I'd have a lot more reasons to brave all that stuff. (Dahar Master, we know that you don't believe tasks set before you by such as us are worthy. However, the importance of this particular task leads us to offer your name and deed in song to be sang by Bajorans a century from now upon it's completion. Fix the imbalance blather blather...)
Stuff like this. Throughly Klingon, gets us to the same point as everyone else, and doesn't cost a fortune to implement. Also, if appropriate enough, drivers to get people to play the missions again so they can read all these textual nuggets - which might inspire an actual KDF ship purchase, etc. etc.
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Klingons would waste them. Orions wouldn't employ, they would enslave them and sell them to the highest bidder. Who cares what Nausicaans and Letheans do, they get hired by almost everybody with deep pockets.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
"Known fact." Care to support that with anything? And it's implied that I'm speaking about things post-"we don't have to..." anyway, although much of what comes before is just as bad.
Most of the Delta stuff was FED content, and very, very little of it made any sense for a KDF character. Doing chores for Talaxians? Following the Prime Directive just because Harry Kim? It makes no sense. Even many FED-only players voiced their dissatisfaction with helping the Kobali when the content was released, and Klingons have no Prime Directive. They likely would do what they do (read: threaten/kill the Kobali) and deal with the consequences later. "Hey, look, Voyager!" What Klingon/Orion/Gorn/Reman/etc would care?
You kinda have to really want to believe it's all "faction agnostic" to just disregard all of this stuff. The best was the "I miss them too" sadness coming from a player's KDF character in the Iconian arc. Just cringeworthy.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
With AOY- it's not a TOS "sub faction" it's plainly more Fed-only content masquerading as a sub-faction release. Eventually the AOY characters get full access to everything Fed within a few episodes of play.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I enjoy the content Cryptic creates. I'm not trying to beat them up as much as explain my frustration.
The problem goes to the root. The faction itself has no core identity. Some lines about "honor" and "glory" mean nothing to this discount-Federation faction.
It's like if you played Federation content and everyone called your character an Andorian, regardless of what race you actually played. Mission after mission of NPCs telling you that your homeworld of Andoria is proud of you, and you constantly get praised for being a great Andorian Warlord. Then Cryptic adds a few more lines of "Andorian Honor" to some Iconian mission and that is supposed to represent the Federation.
I seriously hope they do. My wish, would be for separate views of similar missions. I would like to see a revamp of the Federation and Klingon tutorial arcs.
"You can tell alot about a person by the quality of their enemies."
There is plenty of good material on these very forums to form the basis of the KDF. This "new defense force" could form as a public declaration of these forces refusing to bow to the political and cultural pressure of the Federation. Gorn, Klingon, Nausicaan, Lethian, and Orion, united in defiance of cultural and military assimilation by the Federation.
Lots of players would also think this is a bad idea, and I think it would be realistic to include that in this "new defense force". Hardened military leaders who think little of their "allies", and feel the entire thing is just a political farce. Let each entry in the tutorial give a little slice of culture for each member of the "new defense force", each one saying how this is a bad idea and how it won't work.
On the Fed side, the player would hear rumbles of this "new defense force" that threatens the balance of power in the galaxy, while giving the player the opportunity to visit Andoria, Vulcan, Tellar, etc, letting them see some of the culture of Fed worlds.
Meanwhile, on the Red side, Fek'lhri return. And start wrecking stuff. Blood is spilt. Glory is won. Maybe even a betrayal or two. At the end, the player and Kah'less kick butt and the player grudgingly gains approval from those in charge. The Red side is still somewhat dysfunctional, and wary of it's members, but it works. Blue side gets a little worried that Red side can curb stomp actual freaking demons.
All they have to do at this point, is maintain the identity that the "new defense force" is made up of semi-reluctant allies who, at times, work at odds to each other. Maybe segue that "new defense force" paves the way for the galactic powers to come to grips with each other's differences and eventually become the Grand Alliance or whatever.
I realize that asking for faction identity also means asking for new content, but I feel it is strongly needed. The KDF has no identity, and I feel that hurts the faction more than lack of ships or costumes or anything else.
If you truly weren't "forced" to create KDF content and just had limited resources, didn't have the stomach for it, whatever the FOTM excuse was here, great. But let's move forward and put your dev time and resources where your mouth is.
Otherwise, be expected to hear from the masses who aren't satisfied with the system as it stands- actions have consequence.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
The content we have now doesn't capture the multi-cultural nature of the Empire. It's pretty much textbook biting off more than you can chew that the Klingons are playable at all, and frankly the game would be better of in terms of uniformity of writing quality if you couldn't.
I actively hope they scrap KDF/Romulans as playable factions in the console version at launch. It might give them incentive to do a substantial polish pass on their unique content before making a big deal about introducing the 'half-factions' to the console audience.
If you're asking what would make me inclined to play them more it would be better equality of access to ship traits/admiralty cards and maybe a fleet that wasn't all but dead and not even half-built compared to the ones that swamp my new Fed captains with join offers before they can even get off of ESD. Far too much of this game's endgame activities and vendors rely on a critical mass of players that just isn't there.
My character Tsin'xing
When was the last time you went shopping for a KDF fleet to join? When was the last time you took initiative to befriend fellow KDF players, and see about forming your own fleet? What about bringing RL friends in, and forming up a KDF fleet with them?