I...I just don't understand...do people really suck so badly they have to blame their problems on non-existent "balancing issues". You suck, it's that simple. Don't blame the game for that.
It has nothing to do with "sucking". New players don't know the tricks to how the game works.
If they are leveling up faster than normal due to the event, and the mission is scaling the NPCs higher than normal, it can create a mission that is harder than was actually intended.
And being a new player that already doesn't understand how to play, this can be a bad experience and make them just quit instead of sticking around.
That doesn't mean they "suck", it means the devs didn't test things enough before pushing them live.
If you start a TOS toon...NOW you will be lvl 20 at the start of the tholen adventure, your ship will
still be the POS noob ship and they will be level 20 ships...enjoy.
now if you did it when this first started, before the bonus, ya easy enough.
Git gud.
I used the Pioneer until level 27 or so. The entirety of the Klingon War storyline. I just kept the gear current and didn't fly like a moron.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again."
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
If you start a TOS toon...NOW you will be lvl 20 at the start of the tholen adventure, your ship will
still be the POS noob ship and they will be level 20 ships...enjoy.
now if you did it when this first started, before the bonus, ya easy enough.
Git gud.
I used the Pioneer until level 27 or so. The entirety of the Klingon War storyline. I just kept the gear current and didn't fly like a moron.
You're missing the point completely. Or intentionally ignoring it.
I can twink my alt with a VR Mk II phaser console, shield console, neutronium console, and use the rare level-up phasers from my connie. I can also switch to my connie. I can xfer dil and EC to buy boffs, training manual and gear, use tech upgrades on gear, AND I know how to get the most out of a T1 ship and crew.
Some wide-eyed new player has none of that, knows none of that. When they take their free starter ship with starter gear and no consoles into battle against level 20 enemies they will be stomped over and over again. They will not have fun. Some will quit the game and never come back.
New players bring new money to keep the lights on. New players are a good thing. We should appreciate new players instead of mocking them.
How do I know? I started playing STO during the Delta Rising event. Massive XP boosts, completely ignorant of mechanics, upgrading, tactics, skills, and generally knowing what the sem hell I was doing. Still rolled through just fine.
Sure. I got blasted out of the sky several times. All I did was start taking enemies on one at a time, or ask around until I learned how to slot new boff skills into my poor little tier 1 Miranda. It's nowhere near as difficult or one sided as you make it out to be.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again."
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
And this is why I made sure to get to the 25 century long before the XP boost. I think I was around level 20 when the boost kicked in.
I am glad I did not even consider purchasing the AoY mega ship pack. Although I was thinking about buying the AoY Starter Pack since it is essentially 2,000 Zen for the T6 Paladin. Although, I have to say that I am rather luke warm about it's appearance, but the Retaliation trait is interesting... But there are other ships in the C-Store that I want so this will have to go to the bottom of my queue.
It's not the first time that accelerated leveling has caused an issue in STO, but I agree that it's probably hardest on new players stuck in T1 ships or locked out from advanced gear because they haven't completed a certain mission yet.
I rolled a second TOS character and opted to skip the tutorial... which leveled me right to level 10 and I still needed to complete the TOS content. He's now sitting at level 20 and has Tangled Webs to look forward to. That would have gotten me even without a double XP weekend.
I do have some advantages that a new Silver player doesn't have. Stuff like the chromodynamic armor, special tribbles, horta combat pets, the automated point defense tactical console, and recently the T1+ Constitution. I have an account bank and should be able to pass some upgraded gear back to him if need be.
If all else fails, I just delete him and re-start. Not what you want a brand new player to be forced into.
So yes, I think low-level characters (below level 10) should be exempted from double XP bonuses during Double XP weekends. They can still buy boosts if they're determined to outlevel their ships and such.
I did all the TOS-Content after the tutorial with my T1-Connie. I had no trouble at all. The tholians were not nearly as hard as the klingon fleet in the battle of Caleb IV, which is supposed to eventually defeat you anyway.
The Pioneer can do nearly as good as the Connie. The TOS-content is basically supposed to be played with T1-ships anyways.
I did all the TOS-Content after the tutorial with my T1-Connie. I had no trouble at all. The tholians were not nearly as hard as the klingon fleet in the battle of Caleb IV, which is supposed to eventually defeat you anyway.
The Pioneer can do nearly as good as the Connie. The TOS-content is basically supposed to be played with T1-ships anyways.
Before or during the double XP event? Were you level 20 facing the Tholians?
No one is saying the normal leveling for TOS captains is broken, just the boosted leveling event, especially for NEW players who barely know how to fire their weapons.
There should definitely be a level cap on those early enemies to prevent this problem. It's damned important to make sure new players have an enjoyable experience so they stick around.
That would break replay, if they applied it to everything.
I don't think you can replay the TOS missions after you progress to the 25th century, so that wouldn't be a problem for just those (?)
I love it when they say...when I was in the delta rising event..blah blah blah
This is not that event, AND at no point in that event were the delta recruits
restricted on ships or gear. your lvl 20, your flying a tier 3...no problem.
Delta recruit event has NOTHING to do with this event other than the reward structure.
so when you reference it, it shows 2 things, one...your just here to argue and have
no idea what we are talking about.
and
you have not had to deal with the issue.
you say do this and do that, but if you had PLAYED it from the start after the boost
you would know that the things your listing as to what the 'noobs' should do is LOCKED
and unavailable.
Just like the...just go to the ship vendor and get a better ship. GUESS WHAT ?
He only sells the starter ship and the Tier 1 con you have to BUY that is hardly any better.
just put equipment from other toons through the account mail
GUESS WHAT ? NO MAIL AVAILABLE
If you have not gone through the missions with a new toon
after the exp boost....shut up.
As soon as your 23rd century character hits sector space for the first time just go to your bridge and get stuff from your Account Bank, not mail. Do not bother telling me you can't because I know better.
Tell you what though, I'll grab one of my T1 ships and go play Tangled Webs with the stock gear and enemies scaled to level 60, guarantee I roll through no problem.
A NEW PLAYER will not have an account bank or if they do they won't know how to use it before reaching the 25th C.
Also, if you go back with a level 60 captain you'll have traits, spec points, ship mastery and rep traits. To be fair you need to un-select all of those.
As soon as your 23rd century character hits sector space for the first time just go to your bridge and get stuff from your Account Bank, not mail. Do not bother telling me you can't because I know better.
Tell you what though, I'll grab one of my T1 ships and go play Tangled Webs with the stock gear and enemies scaled to level 60, guarantee I roll through no problem.
not everyone has access to account bank you either have to have subbed for this or go into the c-store and buy the account bank option. I had to do that I only could use the normal bank and couldn't transfer over anything through the account bank to my AoY because I didn't have the account bank, I had to actually A.) either be a subscriber or former subscriber or B.) spend some money and buy the account bank option which I did and now I have an account bank to share between all of my characters.
I do agree with the OP though I do not like the exp boost event and hope it goes away, as soon as I got to the 25th century ESD I just stopped playing and went back to either my 60 federation officer or my 60 romulan officer and will keep playing them till the exp boost is gone, or if it is never removed then I will never play my AoY character again.
just put equipment from other toons through the account mail
GUESS WHAT ? NO MAIL AVAILABLE
Yeah, there is no mail station in the TOS era, and even if there was one only players who have purchased the Account Bank would be able to mail unbounded items to other characters on your account. If you do not have an Account Bank, then you cannot mail anything to yourself.
If you have purchased the Account Bank, then it is possible to transfer items to your TOS captain. But not everyone (even seasoned players) is aware that you can go to your ship's bridge or the shuttle craft to access the Account Bank. I prefer the shuttle because when you transfer over to it you are standing right next to the console giving you access to the Account Bank.
yes I am sure there is a way to bypass the no mail situation.
absolutely useless to new players, but yes, for the vets they
can sometimes find a work around.
But that proves my point perfectly.
If it was not horribly broken, then vets would not
need to use a work around...would they ?
All in all the 23c tutorial environment REEKS of porr design decisions. It's like a certain lead developer assumed NO new player would be creating a 23c faction character - ONLY STO vets who had played previous characters would.
For Example:
- There's NO reason not to put an actual character bank at ESD. (If you're really concerned about 'immersion' IE that you'd have the gear from the 23c era in the 25c era - Daniels is Time Traveler; he could grab all your stuff and give it to you anytime he likes.)
- There's zero reason NOT to sell EVERY 23c Boff Training manual for 23c powers at the 23c ESD vendor. (Yes, there are many you can't buy because they just aren't offered; yet they're listed on all your Boffs as trainable with the right manual.)
It really is too bad because they really did a good job capturing the feel of the TOS era; but because of the frustration new players may experience because of a couple of poor design decisions, many may just decide early on it's not worth the hassle to continue - or get a bad first impression of STO in general.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
All in all the 23c tutorial environment REEKS of porr design decisions. It's like a certain lead developer assumed NO new player would be creating a 23c faction character - ONLY STO vets who had played previous characters would.
For Example:
- There's NO reason not to put an actual character bank at ESD. (If you're really concerned about 'immersion' IE that you'd have the gear from the 23c era in the 25c era - Daniels is Time Traveler; he could grab all your stuff and give it to you anytime he likes.)
- There's zero reason NOT to sell EVERY 23c Boff Training manual for 23c powers at the 23c ESD vendor. (Yes, there are many you can't buy because they just aren't offered; yet they're listed on all your Boffs as trainable with the right manual.)
It really is too bad because they really did a good job capturing the feel of the TOS era; but because of the frustration new players may experience because of a couple of poor design decisions, many may just decide early on it's not worth the hassle to continue - or get a bad first impression of STO in general.
Those seem like extremely minor things to complain about.
I know that I have been considering deleting my AoY (again) and starting over, but not until the EXP week is over.
My AoY is over level 50 now and I haven't even gotten him through the Klingon arc.
Been a long time since I leveled a new toon (a Delta recruit), but the current pace just seems exceptionally fast.
But yes, this is a problem. It makes the game more difficult for players, experienced as well as new, but especially new.
Not enough experience to figure out the fine points of BOFF and Captain skills, limited ability to pick and choose equipment, and stuck in that same tier 1 ship while fighting against much more powerful ships.
Heck, I hate how the Caleb IV mission works, and I know that one is a fixed fight.
Seems like it takes forever for the Fed ships to clear out.
Make those Fed ships clear out much faster so I can just "die" and get on with the game.
I tell you, I've invested so much time and effort into my new toon and I can't bring myself to just abandon it! Why aren't those skills and weapons available OR access to the 23c. station, even if only for a TOS toon?
I know that I have been considering deleting my AoY (again) and starting over, but not until the EXP week is over.
My AoY is over level 50 now and I haven't even gotten him through the Klingon arc.
Been a long time since I leveled a new toon (a Delta recruit), but the current pace just seems exceptionally fast.
But yes, this is a problem. It makes the game more difficult for players, experienced as well as new, but especially new.
Not enough experience to figure out the fine points of BOFF and Captain skills, limited ability to pick and choose equipment, and stuck in that same tier 1 ship while fighting against much more powerful ships.
Heck, I hate how the Caleb IV mission works, and I know that one is a fixed fight.
Seems like it takes forever for the Fed ships to clear out.
Make those Fed ships clear out much faster so I can just "die" and get on with the game.
I agree with this about the exp week, my AoY is level 11 but is sitting at the ESD in 25th century and will stay there till the exp boost is gone because right now the leveling is just insane to me and I might delete and restart my AoY after the exp boost is gone
If you start a TOS toon...NOW you will be lvl 20 at the start of the tholen adventure, your ship will
still be the POS noob ship and they will be level 20 ships...enjoy.
now if you did it when this first started, before the bonus, ya easy enough.
Obligatory "git gud" post.
Seriously. You do realize there are people that have played 1-60 in the "POS noob ship" on the hardest difficulty *FOR FUN* right? This isn't an old school MMO where you lose EXP for dying or risk losing your gear.. heck, on lowest difficulty you don't even have anything similar to a "repair bill". So what are you crying about? Dodge the big nasty doomsday-esque attack (you know.. follow the actual strategy for dealing with Na'khul ships?) and pew pew it down. I've run 4 new toons through to RA-UH in the last few days and had no trouble completing the TOS starting stuff without dying. I don't see the problem.
T1 connie comes with auto leveling weapons, and 23c esd offers white quality ship gear as well, that should be more than enough to get through it, I didn't leave my T1 connie until level 30 cause I didn't want to fly the Daedalus (limiting my TOS toon to TOS ships).
did yours actually level tho? Mine stayed at like 84dps right up until I could upgr them to mkXII
The tooltip is screwed up. Slap them on your ship and look at it by hovering over the button to fire them(the one that shows the weapon arcs) and that will tell you the real damage it does.
T1 connie comes with auto leveling weapons, and 23c esd offers white quality ship gear as well, that should be more than enough to get through it, I didn't leave my T1 connie until level 30 cause I didn't want to fly the Daedalus (limiting my TOS toon to TOS ships).
did yours actually level tho? Mine stayed at like 84dps right up until I could upgr them to mkXII
The tooltip is screwed up. Slap them on your ship and look at it by hovering over the button to fire them(the one that shows the weapon arcs) and that will tell you the real damage it does.
If you start a TOS toon...NOW you will be lvl 20 at the start of the tholen adventure, your ship will
still be the POS noob ship and they will be level 20 ships...enjoy.
now if you did it when this first started, before the bonus, ya easy enough.
Obligatory "git gud" post.
Seriously. You do realize there are people that have played 1-60 in the "POS noob ship" on the hardest difficulty *FOR FUN* right? This isn't an old school MMO where you lose EXP for dying or risk losing your gear.. heck, on lowest difficulty you don't even have anything similar to a "repair bill". So what are you crying about? Dodge the big nasty doomsday-esque attack (you know.. follow the actual strategy for dealing with Na'khul ships?) and pew pew it down. I've run 4 new toons through to RA-UH in the last few days and had no trouble completing the TOS starting stuff without dying. I don't see the problem.
Obligatory "know how I know you didn't read the thread?" response.
If you start a TOS toon...NOW you will be lvl 20 at the start of the tholen adventure, your ship will
still be the POS noob ship and they will be level 20 ships...enjoy.
now if you did it when this first started, before the bonus, ya easy enough.
Obligatory "git gud" post.
Seriously. You do realize there are people that have played 1-60 in the "POS noob ship" on the hardest difficulty *FOR FUN* right? This isn't an old school MMO where you lose EXP for dying or risk losing your gear.. heck, on lowest difficulty you don't even have anything similar to a "repair bill". So what are you crying about? Dodge the big nasty doomsday-esque attack (you know.. follow the actual strategy for dealing with Na'khul ships?) and pew pew it down. I've run 4 new toons through to RA-UH in the last few days and had no trouble completing the TOS starting stuff without dying. I don't see the problem.
Obligatory "know how I know you didn't read the thread?" response.
How many hundreds of hours have you played STO?
WE can do it. NEW PLAYERS can't.
Sure they could, if they're not dumb. When a ship is glowing at the front and there's a big cone showing you where a blast is going to be, if you sit in that area and don't GTFO, that's your own fault.
I didn't grab anything out of my account bank, and did everything in the stock ship with stock gear and I have zero issues. Anyone with enough competence to READ tooltips to see what their powers do (like evasive maneuvers, for example) and actually pays attention the tutorial tooltips that pop up should have a general grasp of what to do by the time they get to, what, the SECOND TO LAST mission of the storyline AFTER the tutorial?
In other words, a totally new player should be able to do the content just fine if they aren't dumb.
Comments
It has nothing to do with "sucking". New players don't know the tricks to how the game works.
If they are leveling up faster than normal due to the event, and the mission is scaling the NPCs higher than normal, it can create a mission that is harder than was actually intended.
And being a new player that already doesn't understand how to play, this can be a bad experience and make them just quit instead of sticking around.
That doesn't mean they "suck", it means the devs didn't test things enough before pushing them live.
Git gud.
I used the Pioneer until level 27 or so. The entirety of the Klingon War storyline. I just kept the gear current and didn't fly like a moron.
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
My character Tsin'xing
You're missing the point completely. Or intentionally ignoring it.
I can twink my alt with a VR Mk II phaser console, shield console, neutronium console, and use the rare level-up phasers from my connie. I can also switch to my connie. I can xfer dil and EC to buy boffs, training manual and gear, use tech upgrades on gear, AND I know how to get the most out of a T1 ship and crew.
Some wide-eyed new player has none of that, knows none of that. When they take their free starter ship with starter gear and no consoles into battle against level 20 enemies they will be stomped over and over again. They will not have fun. Some will quit the game and never come back.
New players bring new money to keep the lights on. New players are a good thing. We should appreciate new players instead of mocking them.
How do I know? I started playing STO during the Delta Rising event. Massive XP boosts, completely ignorant of mechanics, upgrading, tactics, skills, and generally knowing what the sem hell I was doing. Still rolled through just fine.
Sure. I got blasted out of the sky several times. All I did was start taking enemies on one at a time, or ask around until I learned how to slot new boff skills into my poor little tier 1 Miranda. It's nowhere near as difficult or one sided as you make it out to be.
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
I am glad I did not even consider purchasing the AoY mega ship pack. Although I was thinking about buying the AoY Starter Pack since it is essentially 2,000 Zen for the T6 Paladin. Although, I have to say that I am rather luke warm about it's appearance, but the Retaliation trait is interesting... But there are other ships in the C-Store that I want so this will have to go to the bottom of my queue.
I rolled a second TOS character and opted to skip the tutorial... which leveled me right to level 10 and I still needed to complete the TOS content. He's now sitting at level 20 and has Tangled Webs to look forward to. That would have gotten me even without a double XP weekend.
I do have some advantages that a new Silver player doesn't have. Stuff like the chromodynamic armor, special tribbles, horta combat pets, the automated point defense tactical console, and recently the T1+ Constitution. I have an account bank and should be able to pass some upgraded gear back to him if need be.
If all else fails, I just delete him and re-start. Not what you want a brand new player to be forced into.
So yes, I think low-level characters (below level 10) should be exempted from double XP bonuses during Double XP weekends. They can still buy boosts if they're determined to outlevel their ships and such.
The Pioneer can do nearly as good as the Connie. The TOS-content is basically supposed to be played with T1-ships anyways.
Before or during the double XP event? Were you level 20 facing the Tholians?
No one is saying the normal leveling for TOS captains is broken, just the boosted leveling event, especially for NEW players who barely know how to fire their weapons.
That would break replay, if they applied it to everything.
I don't think you can replay the TOS missions after you progress to the 25th century, so that wouldn't be a problem for just those (?)
This is not that event, AND at no point in that event were the delta recruits
restricted on ships or gear. your lvl 20, your flying a tier 3...no problem.
Delta recruit event has NOTHING to do with this event other than the reward structure.
so when you reference it, it shows 2 things, one...your just here to argue and have
no idea what we are talking about.
and
you have not had to deal with the issue.
you say do this and do that, but if you had PLAYED it from the start after the boost
you would know that the things your listing as to what the 'noobs' should do is LOCKED
and unavailable.
Just like the...just go to the ship vendor and get a better ship. GUESS WHAT ?
He only sells the starter ship and the Tier 1 con you have to BUY that is hardly any better.
just put equipment from other toons through the account mail
GUESS WHAT ? NO MAIL AVAILABLE
If you have not gone through the missions with a new toon
after the exp boost....shut up.
A NEW PLAYER will not have an account bank or if they do they won't know how to use it before reaching the 25th C.
Also, if you go back with a level 60 captain you'll have traits, spec points, ship mastery and rep traits. To be fair you need to un-select all of those.
not everyone has access to account bank you either have to have subbed for this or go into the c-store and buy the account bank option. I had to do that I only could use the normal bank and couldn't transfer over anything through the account bank to my AoY because I didn't have the account bank, I had to actually A.) either be a subscriber or former subscriber or B.) spend some money and buy the account bank option which I did and now I have an account bank to share between all of my characters.
I do agree with the OP though I do not like the exp boost event and hope it goes away, as soon as I got to the 25th century ESD I just stopped playing and went back to either my 60 federation officer or my 60 romulan officer and will keep playing them till the exp boost is gone, or if it is never removed then I will never play my AoY character again.
Yeah, there is no mail station in the TOS era, and even if there was one only players who have purchased the Account Bank would be able to mail unbounded items to other characters on your account. If you do not have an Account Bank, then you cannot mail anything to yourself.
If you have purchased the Account Bank, then it is possible to transfer items to your TOS captain. But not everyone (even seasoned players) is aware that you can go to your ship's bridge or the shuttle craft to access the Account Bank. I prefer the shuttle because when you transfer over to it you are standing right next to the console giving you access to the Account Bank.
absolutely useless to new players, but yes, for the vets they
can sometimes find a work around.
But that proves my point perfectly.
If it was not horribly broken, then vets would not
need to use a work around...would they ?
For Example:
- There's NO reason not to put an actual character bank at ESD. (If you're really concerned about 'immersion' IE that you'd have the gear from the 23c era in the 25c era - Daniels is Time Traveler; he could grab all your stuff and give it to you anytime he likes.)
- There's zero reason NOT to sell EVERY 23c Boff Training manual for 23c powers at the 23c ESD vendor. (Yes, there are many you can't buy because they just aren't offered; yet they're listed on all your Boffs as trainable with the right manual.)
It really is too bad because they really did a good job capturing the feel of the TOS era; but because of the frustration new players may experience because of a couple of poor design decisions, many may just decide early on it's not worth the hassle to continue - or get a bad first impression of STO in general.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
My character Tsin'xing
My AoY is over level 50 now and I haven't even gotten him through the Klingon arc.
Been a long time since I leveled a new toon (a Delta recruit), but the current pace just seems exceptionally fast.
But yes, this is a problem. It makes the game more difficult for players, experienced as well as new, but especially new.
Not enough experience to figure out the fine points of BOFF and Captain skills, limited ability to pick and choose equipment, and stuck in that same tier 1 ship while fighting against much more powerful ships.
Heck, I hate how the Caleb IV mission works, and I know that one is a fixed fight.
Seems like it takes forever for the Fed ships to clear out.
Make those Fed ships clear out much faster so I can just "die" and get on with the game.
I agree with this about the exp week, my AoY is level 11 but is sitting at the ESD in 25th century and will stay there till the exp boost is gone because right now the leveling is just insane to me and I might delete and restart my AoY after the exp boost is gone
Obligatory "git gud" post.
Seriously. You do realize there are people that have played 1-60 in the "POS noob ship" on the hardest difficulty *FOR FUN* right? This isn't an old school MMO where you lose EXP for dying or risk losing your gear.. heck, on lowest difficulty you don't even have anything similar to a "repair bill". So what are you crying about? Dodge the big nasty doomsday-esque attack (you know.. follow the actual strategy for dealing with Na'khul ships?) and pew pew it down. I've run 4 new toons through to RA-UH in the last few days and had no trouble completing the TOS starting stuff without dying. I don't see the problem.
The tooltip is screwed up. Slap them on your ship and look at it by hovering over the button to fire them(the one that shows the weapon arcs) and that will tell you the real damage it does.
cool thx
Obligatory "know how I know you didn't read the thread?" response.
How many hundreds of hours have you played STO?
WE can do it. NEW PLAYERS can't.
Sure they could, if they're not dumb. When a ship is glowing at the front and there's a big cone showing you where a blast is going to be, if you sit in that area and don't GTFO, that's your own fault.
I didn't grab anything out of my account bank, and did everything in the stock ship with stock gear and I have zero issues. Anyone with enough competence to READ tooltips to see what their powers do (like evasive maneuvers, for example) and actually pays attention the tutorial tooltips that pop up should have a general grasp of what to do by the time they get to, what, the SECOND TO LAST mission of the storyline AFTER the tutorial?
In other words, a totally new player should be able to do the content just fine if they aren't dumb.