why is the Vengeance so big?

nickcastleton

i really dont get why the supposed 23rd century starships are twice the size the kelvin connie is miles bigger than TOS connie and the vengeance the actually bigger than the odyssey.

i am really finding it hard to believe that these ships were that big in the films and i really do thing they need shrinking.

lordgyor

Yeah, they really shouldn't be that big.

garaks31

the augments think big

kelvin timeline federation encountered the big bad future rom ship and they have prepared for it accordingly

choice one

nickcastleton

garaks31 wrote: »

the augments think big

kelvin timeline federation encountered the big bad future rom ship and they have prepared for it accordingly

choice one

it doesn't seem feasible that the Vengeance can have a skeleton crew at that size the odyssey had at least 2000
i honestly think they are the wrong size and should be made smaller at best i think the vengeance should be the size of a ambassador class.

antonine3258

Kelvin Timeline ships are huge - the developers here went with the ILM figures for sizes (the Enterprise in the KT is roughly the size of the Galaxy, and the Vengeance is like twice that).

It had something to do with the shuttle bay being scaled up and that affecting other things, if I remember.

marikaoniki1

nickcastleton wrote: »

i really dont get why the supposed 23rd century starships are twice the size the kelvin connie is miles bigger than TOS connie and the vengeance the actually bigger than the odyssey.

i am really finding it hard to believe that these ships were that big in the films and i really do thing they need shrinking.

I present to you, the saucer section of the Vengeance, crashed/crashing into San Francisco. Even leaning at an angle, rather than completely vertical, the saucer itself is noticeably taller than the buildings in the FOREground. While the scale may be a bit off (even though I like the movies he's made for ST and SW, JJ and his visuals team seem to have a problem keeping scale and distance accurate), I'd say the scale given to Cryptic by the studios is roughly accurate.

​​

lipucd1

This is chances are one of the secondary factors as why a lot of people dislike the Kelven Timeline stuff, not accounting for the entire shift in storytelling focus and lore. The size for everything in the Kelven Timeline is LARGE. Everything is LARGE. Even the large is LARGER. The sheer size for these things is mind boggling, but that's apparently the 'intended' design.

Love em or hate them, that size is their 'canon' ( give or take a few meters ).

pweistheworst

marikaoniki1 wrote: »

nickcastleton wrote: »

i really dont get why the supposed 23rd century starships are twice the size the kelvin connie is miles bigger than TOS connie and the vengeance the actually bigger than the odyssey.

i am really finding it hard to believe that these ships were that big in the films and i really do thing they need shrinking.

I present to you, the saucer section of the Vengeance, crashed/crashing into San Francisco. Even leaning at an angle, rather than completely vertical, the saucer itself is noticeably taller than the buildings in the FOREground. While the scale may be a bit off (even though I like the movies he's made for ST and SW, JJ and his visuals team seem to have a problem keeping scale and distance accurate), I'd say the scale given to Cryptic by the studios is roughly accurate.

​​

The pointy building on the left is an actual building in San Francisco, so if math nerds want to get the real-life dimensions for that building and estimate the distance of the saucer from that building in the image you should be able to calculate the approximate size of the Vengeance.

The short answer is that I'm pretty sure the ship is stupidly HUGE ... we can argue that JJ and his team shouldn't have made it that big, but I think the devs made this giant ship close to scale with the movie model.

nickcastleton

pweistheworst wrote: »

marikaoniki1 wrote: »

nickcastleton wrote: »

i really dont get why the supposed 23rd century starships are twice the size the kelvin connie is miles bigger than TOS connie and the vengeance the actually bigger than the odyssey.

i am really finding it hard to believe that these ships were that big in the films and i really do thing they need shrinking.

I present to you, the saucer section of the Vengeance, crashed/crashing into San Francisco. Even leaning at an angle, rather than completely vertical, the saucer itself is noticeably taller than the buildings in the FOREground. While the scale may be a bit off (even though I like the movies he's made for ST and SW, JJ and his visuals team seem to have a problem keeping scale and distance accurate), I'd say the scale given to Cryptic by the studios is roughly accurate.

​​

The pointy building on the left is an actual building in San Francisco, so if math nerds want to get the real-life dimensions for that building and estimate the distance of the saucer from that building in the image you should be able to calculate the approximate size of the Vengeance.

The short answer is that I'm pretty sure the ship is stupidly HUGE ... we can argue that JJ and his team shouldn't have made it that big, but I think the devs made this giant ship close to scale with the movie model.

the problem with comparing a ship to a building is that its not accurate i mean the galaxy class is probably bigger than most buildings.

but ive been doing some digging on the actual sizes and i cant seem to find any stated dimensions of either ships, well i found three about the kelvin connie so still no help.

tieberione

The actual answer was in the Dev Diary. The in game sizes were given to them specifically by CBS and Paramount. Make them this size or they couldn't make them at all.

bobsisko47

Check this out: roughly from Minute 10 or 11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkBoDcORaJU

nickcastleton

tieberione wrote: »

The actual answer was in the Dev Diary. The in game sizes were given to them specifically by CBS and Paramount. Make them this size or they couldn't make them at all.

bobsisko47 wrote: »

Check this out: roughly from Minute 10 or 11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkBoDcORaJU

interesting as i did some research and the guy point out what i found that jj said they were not big jj actually said the kelvin connie was only a little bigger than orig connie so i wonder why the company's said otherwise.

postinggum

Tried flying a little ship with all the fx? With GW, DRB, kemo and portals I can't see my Vorgon escort and nor whose shooting it.

bltrrn

bobsisko47 wrote: »

Check this out: roughly from Minute 10 or 11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkBoDcORaJU

*Redshirtedness intensifies*

lblackmoor

I've heard that there were two sources for the "canon" size of the kelvin ships. One is the design documents provided to Cryptic by CBS. The dimensions mentioned here were what was used in game. However looking at scene where the Enterprise has its saucer ripped up, you can see that there aren't enough decks to justify the size of the ship you see in game.

Of course you can always hand wave it by saying they were trying to adapt 25th century tech with 23rd century parts, increasing the required size of the ships.

Or they needed something to compensate for "Scimitar envy".

joshmaul

As for why such a huge ship can run on a skeleton crew, in a word: Automation. It worked (reasonably) well for the original Enterprise in Star Trek III - a main-universe Constitution had a crew of about 430, and the refit probably no more than 500. Yet the ship was run by just five guys. (Or by a chimpanzee and two trainees, as Scotty put it.) With Augment expertise - since Khan was "an engineer of sorts" in his earlier days - it could easily be turned into a one-man juggernaught.

...dear God, I'm trying to justify elements of the JJ-verse. Heaven help me.

nickcastleton

joshmaul wrote: »

...dear God, I'm trying to justify elements of the JJ-verse. Heaven help me.

i feel for you, im trying to justify not to get the kelvin connie

gabeoz1

Because it's that big in the movies. The KT connie is stupidly large compared to TOS. The KT connie has been estimated to be the size of a galaxy class from the prime timeline. Though some at paramount claim that the KT connie is the size of the prime connie, the size of things like the hangar and engineering deck tells an entirely different story. Now with that over with, the Vengeance practically dwarfs the KT connie. So yeah, vengeance is very big.

gabeoz1

And since it is an alaternate timeline and all, I have a theory as to why they are so big compared to their prime counterparts. One word. Borg. My theory is that in the KT the Borg had already had a major presence in the area for years, maybe some of the local powers like the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, etc reverse engineered some of their technology to create larger, stronger ships.

janus1975

It's a TV trope, the "Big Bad". In a nutshell, big, dark, and ugly is shorthand to telegraph to audiences that this enemy is evil and powerful. The bigger, the more powerful.

I doubt any more thought went into it than that.

artan42

There are two sizes for the Dreadnought and the KonsTitution. The first are the canon sizes that the models were built to. So ~700m and 360m respectively. The second are the sizes that don't appear on-screen but CBS and Paramount seem to be peddling and that's ~1000m and ~600m respectively.

The deal with Cryptic requires the second set of figures over the canon set for reasons unbeknownst to man or god.

The confusion for some people come from two scenes in the films. The Enterprise's shuttlebay and the aforementioned Vengence crashing into San Fran. However both are examples of upscaling in a scene for dramatic effect. In the same way the BoP was scaled up against the whaling ship in ST IV.

The models however were built to a clear and apparent size, their canon sizes.

schloopdoo

I bought the Vengeance, because there's no sense in making energy credits if you're not going to have fun spending them.

I like the size of the ship. In its size on the screen and in the way that it handles, it feels a lot like the Federation finally has something like the Scimitar.

I'll likely continue to use my Arbiter as my main ship, but it'll be fun to drag the Vengeance out of drydock and tool around with whenever the size of other players' cruisers gives me that "the grass is always greener on the other side of the shipyard" feeling.

storules

Does not make sense either that in the 24th Century you have "T5" ships while in the 23rd you get "T6"? This is an upside down design to say the least. All the stuff that is in the 23c should be at most T5 yet they are far superior than the actual timeline the game launched.

It's ALL about money rather than making a "good" sense ​​

smokebailey

Sloppy writing, and Admiral Marcus (and JJ himself) have some.....are trying to make up for a lack of something else in the size department.....like when some guy gets a tank sized truck or gas guzzling hot rod.

redvenge

storules wrote: »

Does not make sense either that in the 24th Century you have "T5" ships while in the 23rd you get "T6"? This is an upside down design to say the least. All the stuff that is in the 23c should be at most T5 yet they are far superior than the actual timeline the game launched.

It's ALL about money rather than making a "good" sense ​​

26th century ships can be refitted to look like 23 century ships. The Excelsior is still trucking. Seems like there is some kinda precedent.

Lockbox/lobi ships are always "refitted with the latest 24th century tech". Says so on the can. Must be true!

kal36

I'm guessing you didn't see the movie ,when it was next to the Enterprise it was huge so they got the size righ..

asardetemplari

There's something people are forgetting.

"Examination of the time-lost salvage taken from the Kelvin Timeline reveals that the Federation of that reality had a decidedly higher emphasis on military technologies, likely as a direct result of their overwhelming defeat at the hands of the alien vessel that invaded their space in the 23rd Century. The same has shown to be true of the Klingon and Romulan ships of that time. This emphasis on cutting-edge technology allows their starships and equipment to be comparable with our own in the early 25th Century, despite technically being hundreds of years old. A small group of industrious scientists have taken it upon themselves to replicate these designs, and distribute them throughout the modern era."

But I guess that's just silly. Kinda like pancake ships.

bltrrn

smokebailey wrote: »

Sloppy writing, and Admiral Marcus (and JJ himself) have some.....are trying to make up for a lack of something else in the size department.....like when some guy gets a tank sized truck or gas guzzling hot rod.

Maybe with Abrams, but based on the size of Peter Weller's hands, he's *at least* appropriately proportioned for his frame, the same goes for Marcus. Please, let us not bring such things up again.