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Unofficial Literary Challenge 25 Discussion Thread

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  • takeshi6takeshi6 Member Posts: 752 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    And here's part two.

    Crew of USS Bajor:
    • Lieutenant (JG) Dr. Warragul William Wirrpanda, chief medical officer: Wayne Blair

    Other:
    • Captain Krell, son of Mok'tar: Ned Romero
    • Captain James Kurland, CO, Deep Space 9: James "Borticus" Randall

    I borrowed the rough circumstances of Federation first contact with the Bajorans from the novel Allegiance in Exile.

    Nice story there, StarSword. :)
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  • hfmuddhfmudd Member Posts: 881 Arc User
    I can see the catharsis in the piece, but not really my cuppa. Pretty brutal.

    Seconded. Ironic that the protagonist goes on to interact with (a) Q, as IMO you very much had them act the part of "dangerous, savage child-race." :/
    Join Date: January 2011
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Nifty start - the culture shock may very well prove lethal.

    Yeah, Shad actually came off even less sympathetic than I intended in the last scene of the first half, I might have overdone it.
    hfmudd wrote: »
    I can see the catharsis in the piece, but not really my cuppa. Pretty brutal.

    Seconded. Ironic that the protagonist goes on to interact with (a) Q, as IMO you very much had them act the part of "dangerous, savage child-race." :/

    I wonder what Q would have thought of Daniels and the other time cops as portrayed in the game then. And I mean the real Q, not that bratty little bitchass kid who runs the winter event. Evolved individuals trying to protect the timeline, or a bunch of dangerous savage children TRIBBLE with the past to bring about their preferred future when there explicitly is no one correct timeline?

    So, do you accept that, or, knowing where the path is headed, do you try to break the pattern, refuse to play by their rules, and head somewhere else?
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    Well, Q did plenty of temporal interference in an attempt to bring about his preferred "future" for the Federation in general and Jean-Luc in particular, so I think he might regard Timefleet as a naive, but admirable, first step for humans toward a higher state of being.​​
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  • antonine3258antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,391 Arc User

    starswordc wrote: »
    Nifty start - the culture shock may very well prove lethal.

    Yeah, Shad actually came off even less sympathetic than I intended in the last scene of the first half, I might have overdone it.

    Well, she's about as sympathetic as the Klingons - I mean, her cultural matrix is completely out of place, what was acceptable behavior is not.

    But her ridges apparently are in the right place, so she gets to live. And a crew of Klingons die, because they're savages.

    hfmudd wrote: »
    I can see the catharsis in the piece, but not really my cuppa. Pretty brutal.

    Seconded. Ironic that the protagonist goes on to interact with (a) Q, as IMO you very much had them act the part of "dangerous, savage child-race." :/

    I wonder what Q would have thought of Daniels and the other time cops as portrayed in the game then. And I mean the real Q, not that bratty little bitchass kid who runs the winter event. Evolved individuals trying to protect the timeline, or a bunch of dangerous savage children **** with the past to bring about their preferred future when there explicitly is no one correct timeline?

    So, do you accept that, or, knowing where the path is headed, do you try to break the pattern, refuse to play by their rules, and head somewhere else?

    Okay - if you're asking that - there's probably some very interesting stories with the debate of the needs of the many - and a many the downtimers are reluctant to let us see for fear of ripples causing damage to it, asking us to put blind faith that what we are doing will repay its present horribleness.

    That's not what this story is - it's Daniels as powerful manipulator, deigning that the future and events proceed as he wishes, but also a complete sap easily overpowered in his place of power without even the security locks on, to show how pathetic he is, and then by extension how petty his viewpoint is, and to give some catharsis.
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    starswordc wrote: »
    Nifty start - the culture shock may very well prove lethal.

    Yeah, Shad actually came off even less sympathetic than I intended in the last scene of the first half, I might have overdone it.

    Well, she's about as sympathetic as the Klingons - I mean, her cultural matrix is completely out of place, what was acceptable behavior is not.

    But her ridges apparently are in the right place, so she gets to live. And a crew of Klingons die, because they're savages.

    If Eleya thought that, she didn't even need to turn her ship around: from the information she had, the black hole would've taken care of the Klingons for her. No, she doesn't like Klingon warriors: her experiences during the very recently ended war, especially their habitual violations of what she and the Federation consider to be fundamental sentient rights and protections (chief among them slavery, mistreatment of prisoners of war, and deliberately targeting civilians), pretty well soured her on the Klingon warrior culture. But she still tried to mount a rescue at risk of her ship despite her own distaste, as well as trying, however briefly, to resolve the confrontation diplomatically. I chose her words in that scene very carefully: she was trying to at least save the rest of the crew by convincing the first officer to overthrow his captain on grounds that Krell had forgotten his duty to the Empire amidst his bloodlust, as well as invoking Kahless (c.f. DS9: "The Way of the Warrior", "Rules of Engagement", "Soldiers of the Empire").

    Was she quicker on the trigger than another captain might have been? Probably. Disproportionate retribution? Maybe, though there's some technological issues in the way, mainly that A, the other ship's shields were up so she couldn't beam them off like she did with Verda, which didn't even have combat shields, and B, decent odds given the black hole that if either of them did do any real damage to the other, even in attempt to disable, the one damaged would end up dead anyway.
    Post edited by starswordc on
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • antonine3258antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,391 Arc User
    Trying however briefly, and then losing her temper at a helpless opponent for similar remarks that were made by the people she rescued does not give a good comparison.

    These are allies, whether she likes them or not, and she's the captain of a first-class ship.

    Where's the time to give the crew a chance to respond? She opened hail, the Klingon captain opened fire on an apparent enemy, which caused no threat, she responded how they gave no threat, gave a statement, was insulted, then murdered them all. Maybe a minute, tops. Where was there time to convince or even verify the words, or a Federation trick?



    Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker

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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    ... Well, TRIBBLE. I guess I didn't think through that scene as well as I should have.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    Well, I rather liked the mighty Krell, son of Mok'tar, especially: “Damn you, Federation b*tch! How dare you steal the words of Kahless! I will cut your sister’s heart out with a baghneQ! I will spit upon the corpse of your father as I slit your mother’s throat over the graves of your ancestors!” B) That was pretty awesome :D

    But, I have to agree with antonine about Eleya's handling of the situation, IMHO, that's probably worthy of a court-martial (due to the complete lack of threat posed to the Bajor, and the fact that Krell was only mouthing off) The action was a bit Katie Kirk in tone...

    Her behavior toward Shad could possibly be considered an Article 89 (Disrespect toward a superior commissioned officer)

    Her order to fire on Krell's ship could be considered an Article 118 (Murder) as well as an Article 109 (Property other than military property of the United Federation of Planets --waste, spoilage, or destruction)

    At the very least, her general demeanour was straying into the boundary of conduct unbecoming an officer...

    This would then open Tess to charges of following an unlawful order (ie no need to blow the Klingon ship, especially not when only words were used, rather than any true threat...)

    As a piece of writing, I rather enjoyed it (especially Krell) but as I've noted before, Eleya's conduct isn't what I'd necessarily expect of a Starfleet officer ;)
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Well, I rather liked the mighty Krell, son of Mok'tar, especially: “Damn you, Federation b*tch! How dare you steal the words of Kahless! I will cut your sister’s heart out with a baghneQ! I will spit upon the corpse of your father as I slit your mother’s throat over the graves of your ancestors!” B) That was pretty awesome :D

    But, I have to agree with antonine about Eleya's handling of the situation, IMHO, that's probably worthy of a court-martial (due to the complete lack of threat posed to the Bajor, and the fact that Krell was only mouthing off) The action was a bit Katie Kirk in tone...

    Her behavior toward Shad could possibly be considered an Article 89 (Disrespect toward a superior commissioned officer)

    Her order to fire on Krell's ship could be considered an Article 118 (Murder) as well as an Article 109 (Property other than military property of the United Federation of Planets --waste, spoilage, or destruction)

    At the very least, her general demeanour was straying into the boundary of conduct unbecoming an officer...

    This would then open Tess to charges of following an unlawful order (ie no need to blow the Klingon ship, especially not when only words were used, rather than any true threat...)

    As a piece of writing, I rather enjoyed it (especially Krell) but as I've noted before, Eleya's conduct isn't what I'd necessarily expect of a Starfleet officer ;)
    Yeah, the more I look at that scene the more I hate it: I realized it was even out-of-character for Tess to follow that kind of order, never mind illegal (she's already threatened to remove Eleya from command once for far less). I felt like there was something wrong with it but I couldn't put my finger on it until antonine pointed it out, so I'm taking it down for a rewrite as of now. This conversation actually put me onto a much better way to write the confrontation, though (essentially, it's easier to see other people's bias than it is your own), so the second draft I think will be much better.

    I will say this, though, the Article 89 charge doesn't apply: a Militia colonel is the same rank as a Starfleet captain, and due to the positional authority of Eleya being the CO and Shad the guest, that actually goes to Shad rather than Eleya.

    EDIT: And is there something wrong with the emoticons today? I can't get the dang window to stay gone.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    Well, I rather liked the mighty Krell, son of Mok'tar, especially: “Damn you, Federation b*tch! How dare you steal the words of Kahless! I will cut your sister’s heart out with a baghneQ! I will spit upon the corpse of your father as I slit your mother’s throat over the graves of your ancestors!” B) That was pretty awesome :D

    But, I have to agree with antonine about Eleya's handling of the situation, IMHO, that's probably worthy of a court-martial (due to the complete lack of threat posed to the Bajor, and the fact that Krell was only mouthing off) The action was a bit Katie Kirk in tone...

    Her behavior toward Shad could possibly be considered an Article 89 (Disrespect toward a superior commissioned officer)

    Her order to fire on Krell's ship could be considered an Article 118 (Murder) as well as an Article 109 (Property other than military property of the United Federation of Planets --waste, spoilage, or destruction)

    At the very least, her general demeanour was straying into the boundary of conduct unbecoming an officer...

    This would then open Tess to charges of following an unlawful order (ie no need to blow the Klingon ship, especially not when only words were used, rather than any true threat...)

    As a piece of writing, I rather enjoyed it (especially Krell) but as I've noted before, Eleya's conduct isn't what I'd necessarily expect of a Starfleet officer ;)
    Yeah, the more I look at that scene the more I hate it: I realized it was even out-of-character for Tess to follow that kind of order, never mind illegal (she's already threatened to remove Eleya from command once for far less). I felt like there was something wrong with it but I couldn't put my finger on it until antonine pointed it out, so I'm taking it down for a rewrite as of now. This conversation actually put me onto a much better way to write the confrontation, though (essentially, it's easier to see other people's bias than it is your own), so the second draft I think will be much better.

    I will say this, though, the Article 89 charge doesn't apply: a Militia colonel is the same rank as a Starfleet captain, and due to the positional authority of Eleya being the CO and Shad the guest, that actually goes to Shad rather than Eleya.

    EDIT: And is there something wrong with the emoticons today? I can't get the dang window to stay gone.
    Yes, you're quite right about the Article 89 not really applying... That said, Eleya's behaviour was definitely less-than-professional in her approach to Shad, so the conduct unbecoming would probably stand ;)

    I'll look forward to seeing how you handle the revised version B) I had to do a major rewrite on a piece where Claire had to assume command of the Vanguard, and the rushed first draft just came across wrong... I'm hoping to actually get something of my own written for this ULC as well, now my schedule has freed up a bit B)

    I found the emoticon window remaining in place like a kind of cursor (probably someone tweaking with the forum coding ;)
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Second draft is up. I also changed the song cue in part one.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    Second draft is up. I also changed the song cue in part one.
    Awesome B) That reads much better, and more meaningfully B) The mighty Krell, son of Mok'tar, met an honorable death B)
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  • antonine3258antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,391 Arc User
    @starswordc The new draft sits much easier with me where Eleya stands as a Starfleet officer while staying very true to the spirit in the excellent first half.
    Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker

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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    starswordc wrote: »
    Second draft is up. I also changed the song cue in part one.
    Awesome B) That reads much better, and more meaningfully B) The mighty Krell, son of Mok'tar, met an honorable death B)
    patrickngo wrote: »
    @starswordc:

    Much better job in the second draft-your Klingons acted like Klingons, instead of ...how did Sandman put it? "Cavemen with a Napoleon Complex".
    I prefer Q's term, "Microbrain". B)

    Glad you guys liked the Klingons, I'm never quite sure how far to take the ham when I'm writing them. Did you also notice the bit where Eleya uses Klingon battle reasoning on herself (the question of duty or bloodlust)?
    @starswordc The new draft sits much easier with me where Eleya stands as a Starfleet officer while staying very true to the spirit in the excellent first half.
    Glad you like the new version.

    Changing the subject a bit, what did you guys think of the joke at Kirk's expense?
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • antonine3258antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,391 Arc User
    Changing the subject a bit, what did you guys think of the joke at Kirk's expense?

    'Banta fever?' - as noted, Kirk really gets around. And there could be a perfectly innocuous explanation (or inoculated, maybe)
    Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker

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  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    The idea which came to me was slightly different from the prompt, but it was a way of delving deeper into another character... Please enjoy Beach of Dreams B)

    --

    Jeran Tial - Susannah Fielding
    Marcus Kane - Matt Bomer
    V'Len - Jess Impiazzi
    Nikolai Alexeivich Remisoff - Aleksandr Domogarov
    Ozka Nel - J. August Richards
    Paul Willenson - Josh Hutcherson
    Nevena Beren - Annette Bening
    Tolian Soran - Malcolm McDowell
    Nichos Sark - Alex Pettyfer
    Jense Odom - Steve Coogan
    Kela Fend - Trent Ford
    Ardala Gerad - Mia Cottet
    Noelia Sune - Christina Ricci
    Corin Irada - John Krasinski
    Raoul Vanois - Grégory Fitoussi
    Abdul Malik - Karim Abdel Aziz
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    The emoticon thing comes up when someone tries to use an old-style ASCII emoticon - the forum then interprets that as an incomplete emote and prompts you to fill it in. Quick fix is to go into the quoted part and change from old smiley (or whatever expression) to new smiley (or whatever expression).​​
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    The emoticon thing comes up when someone tries to use an old-style ASCII emoticon - the forum then interprets that as an incomplete emote and prompts you to fill it in. Quick fix is to go into the quoted part and change from old smiley (or whatever expression) to new smiley (or whatever expression).​​

    It's okay, the emoticon was intended in the above post :D
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    As an aside, I was constructing a story for my TOS captain, but I'm not sure when (or if) it'll get finished - last Tuesday, my daughter (15 years old and low-functioning autistic) went in for a routine checkup, and her mother requested that she be screened for diabetes, as she's been drinking a lot of water and lemonade lately. Got a call back that evening requesting that we take Morgana in to the ER, as her blood-sugar level was 591mg/dl (a normal, healthy midafternoon reading should be no higher than 180). We were in the hospital until Friday afternoon, as they brought her sugars down and we worked on how to set up her new routine (autism is all about routine). Now I have to spend a lot of time making sure she's not sneaking snacks of potato chips or granola bars, taking her blood sugar before each meal and before bedtime, and doing the math on her meals (maximum 60g of carbohydrates per meal).

    So yeah, been busy, probably going to be busy for a while, not sure when/if writing time will happen again.​​
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  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    As an aside, I was constructing a story for my TOS captain, but I'm not sure when (or if) it'll get finished - last Tuesday, my daughter (15 years old and low-functioning autistic) went in for a routine checkup, and her mother requested that she be screened for diabetes, as she's been drinking a lot of water and lemonade lately. Got a call back that evening requesting that we take Morgana in to the ER, as her blood-sugar level was 591mg/dl (a normal, healthy midafternoon reading should be no higher than 180). We were in the hospital until Friday afternoon, as they brought her sugars down and we worked on how to set up her new routine (autism is all about routine). Now I have to spend a lot of time making sure she's not sneaking snacks of potato chips or granola bars, taking her blood sugar before each meal and before bedtime, and doing the math on her meals (maximum 60g of carbohydrates per meal).

    So yeah, been busy, probably going to be busy for a while, not sure when/if writing time will happen again.​​
    I hope you manage to get things balanced for her, and that she finds a routine she enjoys. Might this be a way of introducing a new hobby such as cooking, or to make it less of a chore? I have an Australian friend who's dairy and wheat intollerant and chooses to avoid meat, and also suffers from chronic farigue, and she prepares all her own meals from scratch... Fingers crossed that you can find the right balance for Morgana B)
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    Nicely done, Marcus, and indeed, it is an interesting twist on the zhian'tara.
    jonsills wrote: »
    As an aside, I was constructing a story for my TOS captain, but I'm not sure when (or if) it'll get finished - last Tuesday, my daughter (15 years old and low-functioning autistic) went in for a routine checkup, and her mother requested that she be screened for diabetes, as she's been drinking a lot of water and lemonade lately. Got a call back that evening requesting that we take Morgana in to the ER, as her blood-sugar level was 591mg/dl (a normal, healthy midafternoon reading should be no higher than 180). We were in the hospital until Friday afternoon, as they brought her sugars down and we worked on how to set up her new routine (autism is all about routine). Now I have to spend a lot of time making sure she's not sneaking snacks of potato chips or granola bars, taking her blood sugar before each meal and before bedtime, and doing the math on her meals (maximum 60g of carbohydrates per meal).

    So yeah, been busy, probably going to be busy for a while, not sure when/if writing time will happen again.​​

    Speaking as a high-functioning autistic guy myself, you have my sympathies.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    Nicely done, Marcus, and indeed, it is an interesting twist on the zhian'tara.
    Thanks B) The question which came to me, was 'how would the nexus respond to a Trill?' That then lead to the idea explored in Solaris, where Reya was returned as suicidal, as that was how Kris remembered her, and that lead to Nichos being very much a tribute to Nick Drake, and how his friends and family have spoken of him (and of course, his older sister, Gabrielle Drake, was 'Jeran's actress' in her first appearance in Academy Daze ) I'm glad you enjoyed it B)
  • antonine3258antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,391 Arc User
    Sorry to hear @jonsills. Hope it gets balanced.

    @marcusdkane - That was an interesting piece in the Nexus.
    Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker

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  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    @marcusdkane - That was an interesting piece in the Nexus.
    Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it B)
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Having some trouble with the quote tags?
    patrickngo wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    Second draft is up. I also changed the song cue in part one.
    Awesome B) That reads much better, and more meaningfully B) The mighty Krell, son of Mok'tar, met an honorable death B)
    patrickngo wrote: »
    @starswordc:

    Much better job in the second draft-your Klingons acted like Klingons, instead of ...how did Sandman put it? "Cavemen with a Napoleon Complex".
    I prefer Q's term, "Microbrain". B)

    Glad you guys liked the Klingons, I'm never quite sure how far to take the ham when I'm writing them. Did you also notice the bit where Eleya uses Klingon battle reasoning on herself (the question of duty or bloodlust)?
    @starswordc The new draft sits much easier with me where Eleya stands as a Starfleet officer while staying very true to the spirit in the excellent first half.
    Glad you like the new version.

    Changing the subject a bit, what did you guys think of the joke at Kirk's expense?
    it's actually a more universal question than most people would willingly admit, especially when deep-seated hatreds and prejudices are involved. (consider the treatment of Japanese-Americans during and immediately after WWII, and the attitudes that came back from Korea and Vietnam.)

    that was supposed to be a joke? I figured it was just an interesting historical tidbit. (don't all starfleet captains get it on with everything that moves??)
    Well, it was actually supposed to be both. Picard and Janeway were functionally celibate (it was actually Riker who was more of a Casanova on the Ent-D crew), and Sisko was a one-woman man and uninterested in dating. Eleya, meanwhile, is (intended to be) something of an Ethical Sl*t: she doesn't poach on anybody else's turf nor does she cheat when she's in a committed relationship, but she enjoys sex and otherwise doesn't have a problem sleeping around (she admitted to having had a threesome with two Klingons at the Academy in From Bajor to the Black, and she originally met Gaarra when she picked him up in a bar, not knowing he was supposed to be her new ops officer).

    But anyway, Kirk's the one with by far the biggest, if slightly exaggerated, reputation as a womanizer, especially with alien ladies.
    patrickngo wrote: »
    on "how much ham" for Klingons, now?

    hmm...how to put it...

    Star Trek VI gave us Chang, who slathered inappropriate literary references and was clearly bughouse frikking nuts. (Remembering Christopher Plummer spinning his chair while reciting lines of Shakespeare)

    TNG Gowron loved to party (also DS9 Gowron)
    TNG Duras came across as actually thoughtful-until his plans were wrecked, then he tried to lean on his culture like an outsider would-only he wasn't up to the job.

    Lrsa and B'etor, now, those two were campy AND Klingon through and through.

    Kor, Kang, and Koloth each had some stand-out extreem personality bits. (Drunkard, Glutton, Ascetic). NONE of them, whether in TOS trim, or DS9 trim, displayed rampant incompetence or the inability to recognize their situation on a constructive level.

    Worf's "Interrogation" of that older Klingon (get him drunk, get him telling war stories).

    Star Trek V gave us a big-hair eighties rocker/wannabe Biker Klingon antagonist (Probably some noble's waste of a son, come to think of it, sent to the navy in hopes he'll grow up no doubt.)

    Kurn in ST III, kind of a hammy Soviet in the pre-Afghanistan period. (recall he shot 1/12 of his crew because they Destroyed a target instead of disabling it.)

    with the exception of biker-hair-gel from STV, the common thread is 'Smart' badguys. (or at least, not-below-human-intelligence types) common Federation ethnic slurs ("...only the top of the line ones can even talk" from STVI) notwithstanding.

    basically if you're going to have a Klingon villain do something stupid, you need to show their personality as fitting doing that stupid thing, while passively giving a reason why they still have a command. Could be anything-the House Lord's waste of a son (Bighair Klingon from STV came across this way), or they're smart in some other way, or they're ridiculously lucky with a second who doesn't want the job, but doesn't want to die because their leader is a moron (Clever second officer type, an XO who deals with "Commander Careless-the-pigheaded" with a deft hand...)

    I kinda think that might be the case in the rewrite-the XO put up with his commanding officer because said CO was well-connected or somesuch, but once that 'well connected' trait was inactive, it was time to remove the moron before he got everyone killed.
    Very helpful analysis, thank you.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

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  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    Well, it was actually supposed to be both. Picard and Janeway were functionally celibate (it was actually Riker who was more of a Casanova on the Ent-D crew), and Sisko was a one-woman man and uninterested in dating. Eleya, meanwhile, is (intended to be) something of an Ethical Sl*t: she doesn't poach on anybody else's turf nor does she cheat when she's in a committed relationship, but she enjoys sex and otherwise doesn't have a problem sleeping around (she admitted to having had a threesome with two Klingons at the Academy in From Bajor to the Black, and she originally met Gaarra when she picked him up in a bar, not knowing he was supposed to be her new ops officer).

    But anyway, Kirk's the one with by far the biggest, if slightly exaggerated, reputation as a womanizer, especially with alien ladies.
    Marcus was always either in comitted relationships, or single (until the Dark Quickening warped his morals, then he did become a cheat (on Siri, with Jeran) and arguably, those committed relationships were all long-term... His 'friendship with benefits' with Jeran was essentially an example of why long-distance relationships don't tend to work (there's always someone closer who is also compatible)
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