Romulans don't exist in the 26th century???

wardcalis

thats the only explanation for why they wouldn't have any ships of their own I can think of.

kodachikuno

wardcalis wrote: »

thats the only explanation for why they wouldn't have any ships of their own I can think of.

on the off chance you aren't just troll baiting... its more likely to do with normal cryptic laziness and the in game plot where Klinks and Roms all join the big happy Feddiebear faction in the future. The frikkin RR is already Fed-lite.

mustrumridcully0

It's more likely a result of Cryptic wanting to earn decent money when they make a ship, and limiting their Romulan faction-specific ships to a point they can financially justify.

Of course, the pack is also devoted to the TOS faction, and including ships not useable on a TOS character is plainly counter-intuitive. Since they did actually create new TOS era Romulan and Klingon ships I wonder if they are going to release some of them as playable ships eventually, but so far, there are no signs of that.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

bltrrn

patrickngo wrote: »

wardcalis wrote: »

thats the only explanation for why they wouldn't have any ships of their own I can think of.

Basically?

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

It's more likely a result of Cryptic wanting to earn decent money when they make a ship, and limiting their Romulan faction-specific ships to a point they can financially justify.

Of course, the pack is also devoted to the TOS faction, and including ships not useable on a TOS character is plainly counter-intuitive. Since they did actually create new TOS era Romulan and Klingon ships I wonder if they are going to release some of them as playable ships eventually, but so far, there are no signs of that.

or, in simple terms; You Don't Count. WE don't count. The ONLY people that matter, the only ones that are "Real" Star Trek fans and the only people that are "PROFITABLE" are Fed-Only Whales.

Be happy they at least condescend to admit there are more than one faction in the game with cross-faction ships. ONce the numbers have pumped far enough to push Romulan and KDF below 10%, expect even that to go away.

We should inflate our accounts with KDF/Rom-KDF characters. It doesn't matter if they're unused alts, since the Feds are held to the same standard.

sinn74

patrickngo wrote: »

You Don't Count. WE don't count. The ONLY people that matter, the only ones that are "Real" Star Trek fans and the only people that are "PROFITABLE" are Fed-Only Whales.

Be happy they at least condescend to admit there are more than one faction in the game with cross-faction ships. ONce the numbers have pumped far enough to push Romulan and KDF below 10%, expect even that to go away.

Honestly, they've been adding more incentives to ignore non-FED since even before the "..don't have to make faction specific content" thing. AoY is the climax of "Let's just burn it all. FED or GTFO."

I can't say that selling garbage to people with more money than sense is a bad business decision- but I can say that it's a game in which I'm not particularly interested.

mustrumridcully0

sinn74 wrote: »

patrickngo wrote: »

You Don't Count. WE don't count. The ONLY people that matter, the only ones that are "Real" Star Trek fans and the only people that are "PROFITABLE" are Fed-Only Whales.

Be happy they at least condescend to admit there are more than one faction in the game with cross-faction ships. ONce the numbers have pumped far enough to push Romulan and KDF below 10%, expect even that to go away.

Honestly, they've been adding more incentives to ignore non-FED since even before the "..don't have to make faction specific content" thing. AoY is the climax of "Let's just burn it all. FED or GTFO."

I can't say that selling garbage to people with more money than sense is a bad business decision- but I can say that it's a game in which I'm not particularly interested.

Cryptic likes making stuff that they get well paid for.
If that stuff doesn't fit your preferences, it's tough luck. Not much you can do about it, unless you can multiply yourself (and your bank account) in some freak transporter accident so that suddenly you're the majority that needs to be catered to.

bltrrn

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

sinn74 wrote: »

patrickngo wrote: »

You Don't Count. WE don't count. The ONLY people that matter, the only ones that are "Real" Star Trek fans and the only people that are "PROFITABLE" are Fed-Only Whales.

Be happy they at least condescend to admit there are more than one faction in the game with cross-faction ships. ONce the numbers have pumped far enough to push Romulan and KDF below 10%, expect even that to go away.

Honestly, they've been adding more incentives to ignore non-FED since even before the "..don't have to make faction specific content" thing. AoY is the climax of "Let's just burn it all. FED or GTFO."

I can't say that selling garbage to people with more money than sense is a bad business decision- but I can say that it's a game in which I'm not particularly interested.

Cryptic likes making stuff that they get well paid for.
If that stuff doesn't fit your preferences, it's tough luck. Not much you can do about it, unless you can multiply yourself (and your bank account) in some freak transporter accident so that suddenly you're the majority that needs to be catered to.

Did anyone not see my suggestion? lolololol

sinn74

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

sinn74 wrote: »

patrickngo wrote: »

You Don't Count. WE don't count. The ONLY people that matter, the only ones that are "Real" Star Trek fans and the only people that are "PROFITABLE" are Fed-Only Whales.

Be happy they at least condescend to admit there are more than one faction in the game with cross-faction ships. ONce the numbers have pumped far enough to push Romulan and KDF below 10%, expect even that to go away.

Honestly, they've been adding more incentives to ignore non-FED since even before the "..don't have to make faction specific content" thing. AoY is the climax of "Let's just burn it all. FED or GTFO."

I can't say that selling garbage to people with more money than sense is a bad business decision- but I can say that it's a game in which I'm not particularly interested.

Cryptic likes making stuff that they get well paid for.
If that stuff doesn't fit your preferences, it's tough luck. Not much you can do about it, unless you can multiply yourself (and your bank account) in some freak transporter accident so that suddenly you're the majority that needs to be catered to.

Then why do they release obviously subpar things for non-Feds? It's obvious that people won't like them on numerous levels.

Parroting the Geko "somethingsomethingLowPopulation" looks even worse when it's from someone making blind excuses for someone else, for no apparent reason. It's funny as a bad excuse coming from him, but it just shows lack of free thinking when someone parrots it.

catoblepasbeta

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

Cryptic likes making stuff that they get well paid for.
If that stuff doesn't fit your preferences, it's tough luck. Not much you can do about it, unless you can multiply yourself (and your bank account) in some freak transporter accident so that suddenly you're the majority that needs to be catered to.

If Cryptic was willing to cultivate the Romulan or Klingon faction to any noticeable degree, that would have the effect of multiplying the players for those factions by making them more appealing to play. Many other games have healthy faction systems, but they require effort to keep at parity. Cryptic long ago seems to have noticed that Klingons didn't rake in as much as feds (although the fact that they were never at parity content-wise certainly had a hand in it) and decided that they would sideline them almost entirely to concentrate on the feds. And we saw this repeat itself with the Romulans to an even greater degree.

Frankly STO is not an example of a healthy faction-based MMO. The fact that Romulans and Klingons are not a 'majority that needs catering to' is entirely a matter of perspective and Cryptic's incredible lack of ambition towards anything other than the lowest hanging fruit. Never understood the blind adherence to the position of "it's making money, it is by definition a moral and financial exemplar and should not be questioned". The quality of the game -particularly in regard to the Klingon and Romulan factions- is undoubtedly threatened by these continued practices, and any fan of Romulans or Klingons should justifiably be worried about the future of their factions.

mustrumridcully0

catoblepasbeta wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

Cryptic likes making stuff that they get well paid for.
If that stuff doesn't fit your preferences, it's tough luck. Not much you can do about it, unless you can multiply yourself (and your bank account) in some freak transporter accident so that suddenly you're the majority that needs to be catered to.

If Cryptic was willing to cultivate the Romulan or Klingon faction to any noticeable degree, that would have the effect of multiplying the players for those factions by making them more appealing to play. Many other games have healthy faction systems, but they require effort to keep at parity. Cryptic long ago seems to have noticed that Klingons didn't rake in as much as feds (although the fact that they were never at parity content-wise certainly had a hand in it) and decided that they would sideline them almost entirely to concentrate on the feds. And we saw this repeat itself with the Romulans to an even greater degree.

How many MMOs do you know that are based on a franchise that is almost exclusively focused on one faction, but then achieve a balanced player population?

How many MMOs do you know that actually keep a faction-specific story line going for eternity?

catoblepasbeta

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

catoblepasbeta wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

Cryptic likes making stuff that they get well paid for.
If that stuff doesn't fit your preferences, it's tough luck. Not much you can do about it, unless you can multiply yourself (and your bank account) in some freak transporter accident so that suddenly you're the majority that needs to be catered to.

If Cryptic was willing to cultivate the Romulan or Klingon faction to any noticeable degree, that would have the effect of multiplying the players for those factions by making them more appealing to play. Many other games have healthy faction systems, but they require effort to keep at parity. Cryptic long ago seems to have noticed that Klingons didn't rake in as much as feds (although the fact that they were never at parity content-wise certainly had a hand in it) and decided that they would sideline them almost entirely to concentrate on the feds. And we saw this repeat itself with the Romulans to an even greater degree.

How many MMOs do you know that are based on a franchise that is almost exclusively focused on one faction, but then achieve a balanced player population?

How many MMOs do you know that actually keep a faction-specific story line going for eternity?

Star Trek games have not historically only been focused on the federation....so right off the bat you are starting with a false assumption.

Star Wars has had two MMOs that do exactly what you describe. (again, not mentioning the plethora of non-MMO games that also did so) Furthermore, they also let you play as villain factions-something else that STO has been too cowardly to attempt, using pretty much the same excuse- "They don't sell well enough"

bltrrn

catoblepasbeta wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

catoblepasbeta wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

Cryptic likes making stuff that they get well paid for.
If that stuff doesn't fit your preferences, it's tough luck. Not much you can do about it, unless you can multiply yourself (and your bank account) in some freak transporter accident so that suddenly you're the majority that needs to be catered to.

If Cryptic was willing to cultivate the Romulan or Klingon faction to any noticeable degree, that would have the effect of multiplying the players for those factions by making them more appealing to play. Many other games have healthy faction systems, but they require effort to keep at parity. Cryptic long ago seems to have noticed that Klingons didn't rake in as much as feds (although the fact that they were never at parity content-wise certainly had a hand in it) and decided that they would sideline them almost entirely to concentrate on the feds. And we saw this repeat itself with the Romulans to an even greater degree.

How many MMOs do you know that are based on a franchise that is almost exclusively focused on one faction, but then achieve a balanced player population?

How many MMOs do you know that actually keep a faction-specific story line going for eternity?

Star Trek games have not historically only been focused on the federation....so right off the bat you are starting with a false assumption.

Star Wars has had two MMOs that do exactly what you describe. (again, not mentioning the plethora of non-MMO games that also did so) Furthermore, they also let you play as villain factions-something else that STO has been too cowardly to attempt, using pretty much the same excuse- "They don't sell well enough"

Whether BBY, or ABY, the Light still has many lessons to learn.

In all seriousness, while the Sith, and their military-industrial political constructs, are usually portrayed as subjectively evil, Romulans & Klingons are not (being "evil" is a bit different than being an resilient opponent).

This brings the disparity to another level. The Kelvin Lockbox has given me some hope, however.

catoblepasbeta

bltrrn wrote: »

Whether BBY, or ABY, the Light still has many lessons to learn.

In all seriousness, while the Sith, and their military-industrial political constructs, are usually portrayed as subjectively evil, Romulans & Klingons are not (being "evil" is a bit different than being an resilient opponent).

This brings the disparity to another level. The Kelvin Lockbox has given me some hope, however.

I'm not sure A lot of nasty stuff the Romulans pull wouldn't look out of place in the Empire. Give a Romulan some ear surgery, an imperial officer uniform, and they'd blend in pretty well among the ranks of the galactic empire. And the Klingons practice torture and slavery. It's perhaps less noticeable because Klingons and Romulans were on better terms with the federation then the Empire ever was with the Rebels, and are usually willing to at least talk things out before going full "there they are, blast them!" it's certainly less 'in your face' compared to the Galactic Empire, since they are usually not doing those horrible things directly to Federation citizens on screen.

Regardless, I think it says a lot that Cryptic backed out of that when really awful factions like the Sith have proven to that 'bad guy' factions can be plenty successful in other MMOs. They seem really adverse towards effort like that.

I'm not sure how the Vengence/Nutrek Enterprise are going to work if the rumored Kelvin-Timeline faction materializes, since they are going to be available via lockbox. Perhaps making the Lockbox one have a different bridge officer layout than the faction one? IDK... but they'll defiantly have to tackle that problem if/when they make a Kelvin timeline faction, similar problem with the lockbox galor.

catoblepasbeta

*double post*

kodachikuno

I'd also point out that Star War's "good guy" Republic is also not shown to be some flawless utopian idealistic society held together by the "evil shadow organization" section 31. In fact that was one of my favorite things about SWTOR, I can play an Imperial Intelligence Agent that's more patriotic, moral, and loyal than half the Republic NPCs you encounter as a pub character. And the flip is also true. I can play a Republic Special Forces Trooper that's more corrupt, morally bankrupt, and disloyal than most Sith NPCs.

bltrrn

kodachikuno wrote: »

I'd also point out that Star War's "good guy" Republic is also not shown to be some flawless utopian idealistic society held together by the "evil shadow organization" section 31. In fact that was one of my favorite things about SWTOR, I can play an Imperial Intelligence Agent that's more patriotic, moral, and loyal than half the Republic NPCs you encounter as a pub character. And the flip is also true. I can play a Republic Special Forces Trooper that's more corrupt, morally bankrupt, and disloyal than most Sith NPCs.

^the point I was trying to make

bltrrn

catoblepasbeta wrote: »

bltrrn wrote: »

Whether BBY, or ABY, the Light still has many lessons to learn.

In all seriousness, while the Sith, and their military-industrial political constructs, are usually portrayed as subjectively evil, Romulans & Klingons are not (being "evil" is a bit different than being an resilient opponent).

This brings the disparity to another level. The Kelvin Lockbox has given me some hope, however.

I'm not sure A lot of nasty stuff the Romulans pull wouldn't look out of place in the Empire. Give a Romulan some ear surgery, an imperial officer uniform, and they'd blend in pretty well among the ranks of the galactic empire. And the Klingons practice torture and slavery. It's perhaps less noticeable because Klingons and Romulans were on better terms with the federation then the Empire ever was with the Rebels, and are usually willing to at least talk things out before going full "there they are, blast them!" it's certainly less 'in your face' compared to the Galactic Empire, since they are usually not doing those horrible things directly to Federation citizens on screen.

Regardless, I think it says a lot that Cryptic backed out of that when really awful factions like the Sith have proven to that 'bad guy' factions can be plenty successful in other MMOs. They seem really adverse towards effort like that.

I'm not sure how the Vengence/Nutrek Enterprise are going to work if the rumored Kelvin-Timeline faction materializes, since they are going to be available via lockbox. Perhaps making the Lockbox one have a different bridge officer layout than the faction one? IDK... but they'll defiantly have to tackle that problem if/when they make a Kelvin timeline faction, similar problem with the lockbox galor.

The inevitable Dominion faction/Cardassian fraction will certainly be harder to translate out of a lockbox. A Kelvin faction would be a bit easier, since the timlines would still be seperate. At least a KT faction would have the possibility of being multifaction.

thunderfoot

It is a business decision. Made by suits and bean counters who only see the bottom line. Entirely Ferengi in viewpoint.
I have learned while I don't like it, I can live with it. At least until the servers shut down permanently.

lordgyor

There are 21 T5-U ships for the KDF and 18 T6 KDF and I didn't count the cross faction ships or Untiered Small Crafts for the end game.

So while the KDF and possibly more so the Romulans suffer from a few major gaps in their line up, which hopefully Cryptic will fix, there is far more then most people will know what do with especially when there are countless combinations of various weapons, shields, impulse engines, shields, warp engines, consoles, devices, deflector dishes, and in some cases Hangar Bays with various ships to explore.

Serious, I find it challenging to find time for 2 characters and I even completely leveled my current fed yet.

I personally have more ships then I can run.

So I can agree that the Klingons and Romulans are neglected, they just have a few weak points, both could use more choices for science ships for T6, both need a none lockbox carrier, the Klingons need updated Orion Flight Deck Cruisers and the Gorn need updated Support/Science ships (although that dovetails with the KDF needing more science ships).

But for now you have a massive aresonal of ships still.

I don't fly most of the end game ships I have.

mustrumridcully0

catoblepasbeta wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

catoblepasbeta wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

Cryptic likes making stuff that they get well paid for.
If that stuff doesn't fit your preferences, it's tough luck. Not much you can do about it, unless you can multiply yourself (and your bank account) in some freak transporter accident so that suddenly you're the majority that needs to be catered to.

If Cryptic was willing to cultivate the Romulan or Klingon faction to any noticeable degree, that would have the effect of multiplying the players for those factions by making them more appealing to play. Many other games have healthy faction systems, but they require effort to keep at parity. Cryptic long ago seems to have noticed that Klingons didn't rake in as much as feds (although the fact that they were never at parity content-wise certainly had a hand in it) and decided that they would sideline them almost entirely to concentrate on the feds. And we saw this repeat itself with the Romulans to an even greater degree.

How many MMOs do you know that are based on a franchise that is almost exclusively focused on one faction, but then achieve a balanced player population?

How many MMOs do you know that actually keep a faction-specific story line going for eternity?

Star Trek games have not historically only been focused on the federation....so right off the bat you are starting with a false assumption.

One of the earliest Star Trek games, a text game (which exists in several versions by now) was about the USS Enterprise fighting off Klingons.
Star Trek: A Final Unity was Fed. Star Trek: 25th Anniversary was Fed. Star Trek: Judgmement Rites was Fed.
Star Trek Armada had all factions - but it did focus around the Federation hero Captain PIcard and his evil Borg duplicate Locutus.

The list of Star Trek video games mostly has multiple factions when it comes to strategy games, the moment you get to games where you play individual characters and follow "personal" story arcs, most games become Fed-focused. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Star_Trek_games#Video_games
Klingon Academy is probably the most glaring and welcome exception.

Star Wars has had two MMOs that do exactly what you describe. (again, not mentioning the plethora of non-MMO games that also did so) Furthermore, they also let you play as villain factions-something else that STO has been too cowardly to attempt, using pretty much the same excuse- "They don't sell well enough"

One of those two Star Wars games is long defunct, and the other Star Wars game has just released its own expansion that is pretty much totally faction-agnostic.

kodachikuno

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

One of those two Star Wars games is long defunct

If by defunct you mean alive and well on free private servers and available in both pre and post NGE/CU versions with large enough populations to maintain a healthy in game economy... then yes, its defunct

bltrrn

kodachikuno wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

One of those two Star Wars games is long defunct

If by defunct you mean alive and well on free private servers and available in both pre and post NGE/CU versions with large enough populations to maintain a healthy in game economy... then yes, its defunct

I was not aware that Galaxies was still dragging along.

kodachikuno

bltrrn wrote: »

kodachikuno wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

One of those two Star Wars games is long defunct

If by defunct you mean alive and well on free private servers and available in both pre and post NGE/CU versions with large enough populations to maintain a healthy in game economy... then yes, its defunct

I was not aware that Galaxies was still dragging along.

Yessiree it is

mustrumridcully0

kodachikuno wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

One of those two Star Wars games is long defunct

If by defunct you mean alive and well on free private servers and available in both pre and post NGE/CU versions with large enough populations to maintain a healthy in game economy... then yes, its defunct

That's a very elaborate way to describe defunct, but it seems to fit for our purposes here.

You think that Cryptic or CBS strives to have a game that people play on their private servers while they see no money from it?

kodachikuno

point is it aint dead n gone and in fact has enough popularity to maintain player driven economies

bltrrn

kodachikuno wrote: »

point is it aint dead n gone and in fact has enough popularity to maintain player driven economies

I might have to check it out, then. *puts on my best Imperial grey*

In the mean time, I'll be creating RR, and KE alts, to try to offset the now bloated UFP population, while building a certain Romulan allied fleet.

mustrumridcully0

kodachikuno wrote: »

point is it aint dead n gone and in fact has enough popularity to maintain player driven economies

Point is, the people that made the game are not making money of it anymore. It's failed, for all intents of purposes of a business.

If you believe someone will liberate the Star Trek Online code when the servers are down, and CBS would allow a copy-cat to stay online, I think you will be disappointed.

bltrrn

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

kodachikuno wrote: »

point is it aint dead n gone and in fact has enough popularity to maintain player driven economies

Point is, the people that made the game are not making money of it anymore. It's failed, for all intents of purposes of a business.

If you believe someone will liberate the Star Trek Online code when the servers are down, and CBS would allow a copy-cat to stay online, I think you will be disappointed.

"It" failed because of age, not lack of balanced content. STO has plenty of $$$$ live, in it.

garaks31

they have economic problems in the future

kodachikuno

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

kodachikuno wrote: »

point is it aint dead n gone and in fact has enough popularity to maintain player driven economies

Point is, the people that made the game are not making money of it anymore. It's failed, for all intents of purposes of a business.

If you believe someone will liberate the Star Trek Online code when the servers are down, and CBS would allow a copy-cat to stay online, I think you will be disappointed.

actually it didn't fail, it was still going well and making profits but was shut down so it didnt compete with the fiscal disaster swtor was turning into