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KDF Foundry Questions
dawnpromise
Member Posts: 57 Arc User
Hello!
I'm working on a KDF foundry mission and I thought Id ask what people thought of an idea to structure dialog. Write for 3 personality types;
1) Gung Ho KDF Loyal type.
2) More reserved Honorable sort.
3) Fly by the seat of your pants/silly.
Also what do you think of writing personality dialog for BoFFs? Ive always thought before it would be an imposition but Ive been rethinking that recently. Thoughts?
I was told once for Fed no one would bother to travel for a mission - so start it at the home planet. Is that still true for KDF?
I had some overly long backstory notes that I was thinking of putting into optional interactions - is that too distracting/annoying or would it help the flow?
Thanks for the help!
I'm working on a KDF foundry mission and I thought Id ask what people thought of an idea to structure dialog. Write for 3 personality types;
1) Gung Ho KDF Loyal type.
2) More reserved Honorable sort.
3) Fly by the seat of your pants/silly.
Also what do you think of writing personality dialog for BoFFs? Ive always thought before it would be an imposition but Ive been rethinking that recently. Thoughts?
I was told once for Fed no one would bother to travel for a mission - so start it at the home planet. Is that still true for KDF?
I had some overly long backstory notes that I was thinking of putting into optional interactions - is that too distracting/annoying or would it help the flow?
Thanks for the help!
Stellarum, mea sunt
The Stars are Mine.
The Stars are Mine.
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Comments
My character Tsin'xing
That said, I've never really cared for that take on KDF characters, it's too Federation-like, and I would definitely provide options that don't sound Klingon.
Serassh (the Gorn Science officer) was kinda like "yeah I understand the concept of honor, and try to live honorably.... but not the way Klingons do"
Harza-Kull (Orion doctor) was kinda like... "honor? really? I'm an Orion, we don't care."
I don't remember the exact wording, it was years ago.
My character Tsin'xing
I'd forgotten the honor day. Most I rememver about it is being mad the bat'leth you got did as much damage as my shard of the sword of Kahless.
The mission cant start where I want (The fleet temporal lab) so I think I'll have to use Qo'NoS. I'll probably just use the transporter room since it fits with the flow of beaming to your ship to start your adventure/story.
One one last thing - I always liked the missions that involved Gorn Separatists and thought that fight could of been interesting. Especially since the KDF main diplomat is Gorn.
The Stars are Mine.
My character Tsin'xing
I guess I didn't make this clear enough in my response: I was only referring to the player character. Elsewhere, the game treats the species making up the KDF as being culturally distinct. The PC is fully engrossed in the Klingon way, though, unless you choose to ignore the story missions.
(I know it'll never happen, but alternate tutorials for all the members would be really neat.)
My character Tsin'xing
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Again: Harza-Kull, the Bortasqu's chief medical officer, would like to object here (as markhawkman mentioned earlier). Individual Orions may serve inside the KDF, but NOT because they embraced the Klingon ways. In his case, at least if I remember correctly, it's because he's owing some powerful people inside the Syndicate money (or upset them otherwise) and he knows that Klingons DO appreciate a good doctor if they need one. So he serves in the KDF out of self-interest, as Captain Koren and her crew will protect him as most of them owe him their lives.
And in case of Orion women: Do you really think those 1,500 "slavegirls" were sent as gifts to the Great Houses as a sign of "good will"? PLEASE! It should be kinda obvious why they were sent there in the first place (at least from an "out of character" point of view).
The KDF player character would like to object to this. Throughout the game they are consistently presented as having greater sympathy with the KDF than any other faction. See. the tutorial plot, game dialog, who we've shot at, and the final rank of Dahar Master. It's perfectly appropriate to represent other Orion characters as having very strong ties to the Syndicate, or motives that are simply compatible with them, (ditto for any other faction/species) but it would contradict large swaths of the KDF faction in STO to take the same approach to the one the player controls. Ultimately we have to assume that we've assimilated a significant amount of KDF values. That is literally what's there in the game.
Now, player head-canon is free to do whatever it wants, but when writing Foundry dialog you do have to respect the least-common-denominator approach to the player and work with established mission backstory (or else you're simply going to lose people who didn't make the "right" creative decision.) That still leaves a lot of room to play around (see. discussion in last week's Foundry Roundtable, and the general practice of personality choices), but not as much as there is for NPCs.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
And here I think you're wrong. The foundry offers a lot of chances to correct the lack of love Cryptic gave towards the KDF over the years. Fact is, by Cryptics very own lore (again: "Path to 2409"), that the Orions are NOT part of the Klingon Empire, and those who serve inside the KDF are doing so for not-so-honorable reasons as Harza-Kull is proof of. The motivations for Nausicaans, Letheans and Gorn to "serve" inside the KDF are also less motivated by Klingon honor but by other interests (again: see "Path to 2409" to see which species is motivated by what for their species very typical trait).
And before you point out the Fek'lhr-storyline: That one has recieved quite a lot of criticism over the years because it makes no sense to play them as a Gorn, Orion, Nausicaan or Lethean. Those players who play KDF have very often critizised Cryptic for forcing all of the KDF-species into wearing the "Glory!Honor!Q'pla!"-hat, not providing at least some more befitting dialog as some of the Fed missions do. There is a reason a lot of players select the "Disenchanted"-title for their KDF toons after all.
I'm just going to point out the method by which we assumed command. There's no question that the player character has subscribed (to some degree) to KDF values. A foundry author may chose to write differently, and correct with what they see as wrong in the game (see. Divide ut Regnes), but they will open themselves up to those (in this case, like myself) who see their personal creative decisions as breaking with established STO plot, characters, and setting.
And just to be perfectly clear, you're free to take that risk if you want. But others are definitely free to advise against it too.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Mine didn't, that's the point. For best results, you have to go with what's there in the game when setting the foundation of the player character, not your personal head-canon. You can't predict just how far the player has taken their character but you do know what limits cryptic has set thus far with their missions. So you work within that space, because we're all accustomed to it, crossing boundaries when there's a definite reason to but while being ever mindful of the risk involved. It can backfire, and this applies to all species and factions.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
And here's the issue: "What's there in the game" contradicts "What's the game's backstory". It full of contradictions from the start with the KDF. And that's one of the reasons a lot people don't play our faction in the first place, as it's not very immersive. And I hate to say that, but Cryptic has failed to fix this issue, resulting in a vicious circle that results in the continuous low amount of players actually playing KDF.
When there's a contradiction, STO>Path to 2409. It's as simple as that. Undoubtedly more people will have played the missions of the KDF arc to get to a KDF foundry mission than will have read the background lore (which is only available in game through small fragments in a randomized daily).
What your opinions of the KDF faction are of course your own and you're free to generally express them. But do keep in mind that this is a writing discussion among Foundry authors, where we do have to take the game for what it is at some level.
To illustrate, here's some examples (using the FED for a bit of distance)
More advisable dialog options:
Less advisable dialog options:
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
This doesn't mean I don't provide options where they feel needed, but it's rare that I'll write species-specific responses, I'd rather provide more generic ones like were given in the OP. I certainly wouldn't provide an Orion Syndicate or Gorn Hegemony-specific response since you can't actually play those factions. Roleplay's great and all, I do it myself with two of my KDF characters (not to mention my Vorta!), but I can't cover everyone's head canon! And worse, if I picked, say, a [Romulan] dialogue choice in a mission and my character started spewing Star Empire propaganda, I'd be pretty disappointed! So that's all stuff to consider.
I should point out that this is assuming a, for lack of a better term, generic KDF mission. If you want to write a story where I'm playing a Syndicate member, or some random pirates, or a Tal Shiar agent, or my Mirror Universe counterpart, go for it! Just make sure that's clear in the grant mission dialogue.
Example: You need to get some information from some random NPC.
The typical Klingon response would be to intimidate him by, for example, putting a dagger at his throat.
But an Orion female could also use her natural ability to seduce that info out of that NPC. And noone inside the KDF would critize an Orion female captain from doing so, as it delivered the wanted result.
My character Tsin'xing
No one is forcing anyone to do anything, we're simply making recommendations here. We're not saying don't provide alternate dialogue options, but if you only write an Orion character as if they're a Syndicate member, expect some resistance from players who don't want their character written that way. Our recommendation falls back onto what the game itself provides.
I think I started this whole tangent with my response to Mark, and I never meant to imply that you shouldn't provide options, just that the game writes the player character a certain way and I'm not going to fault others for doing the same.
I personally wouldn't make the responses overly specific. I guess a pie chart analogy works best here. Each dialog option is a section of the pie chart. The goal is to have the sections fit together to make a whole, or something close to it. Extremely specific options are like tiny wedges in the pie chart.
My character Tsin'xing
lets make it more precise first: NPC is a Ferengi on Drozana and he's not very talkative. I think, as an author, you should at this point include the following dialog options:
Intimidate [Klingons, Nausicaans, Gorn, Orion male]: Classic "knife to the throat" (or in this case lobes?) situation: Talk or else!
Blackmail [Orions as a whole]: Orions are the true mastes of crime and intel-gathering (Lets face it: the Ferengi are just wannabes in that regard), so they should have no problems to locate at least one ongoing illegal shipment of said NPC beforehand. Just tell them that unless they get that info they cannot guarantee that this ship will not be boarded during an "inspection".
Seduce [both female Orions and Klingons]: Everywoman knows that Ferengi tongues are loosing up if you apply the right ammount of oo-mox. So it should be only logical for a woman to try that option, at least for every Orion one. And as the Duras sisters have shown: Klingon women are not afraid to use their assets to their advantage to get what they want either.
Mindprobe [Letheans]: These guys aer supposed to be one of the most powerful telepaths in the Trek universe, even powerful enough to kill telepathically. So why bother talking to that latinum-hugging gnome if you can just rip that info straight from his brain?
And I'm convinced that no matter which of these options a player captain would choose, the High Council would not mind as long as it delivers the wanted result.
One minor niggle is that the blackmail option seems like it's something that would also apply to Letheans and Nausicaans.
My character Tsin'xing
Only problem I see here though is that I don't think either of them could learn about that shipment, at least not before said conversation. Granted, a Lethean might pick it up telepathically and try a bluff, but I don't think the Nausicaans have access to the necessary intel for this.