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Risa Surfing Race - Why most lose and some win?

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  • swamarianswamarian Member Posts: 1,506 Arc User
    The race course is really forgiving. You can go off a fair amount in either direction and not go off course. (You should be able to see the checkpoints on your map as you race. They're wide ovals, that extend pretty far beyond the boundaries of the course. That's how far out you can go.)
    Also, while the boards will go back and forth, you are travelling in a straight line. If you ignore the board, and just worry about the direction that your head is going in, it's pretty easy.
    Unless the track disappears. I have that happen a lot with crowded races. Then I just try to follow everyone else and get to the end.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,918 Arc User
    What swamarian said.

    I haven't had the course disappear on me, even in crowded races, so I guess I'm lucky.

    I rarely look at the minimap while racing, too easy to get off-course if I look away for even a nanosecond.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • cuchulainn74cuchulainn74 Member Posts: 831 Arc User
    Some great advice in here for folks just trying the race for the first time. And above all, remember this is the Summer Event. It's for fun, people. Try not to take it too seriously.
    Fleet Admiral CuChulainn - U.S.S. Aegis KT Intel Dreadnought Cruiser
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  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,918 Arc User
    I never take it very seriously. If I can 'Reach the end of the race!" and get two tags, I'm happy.

    So many grumble and complain about grabbing flags or flags moving after every race.

    I've tried to say it isn't a race of who crosses the finish line first, it's a race to grab flags. There is one for 12 tags/75 favors(1st), 6 tags/50 favors (2nd), 3 tags/25 favors (3rd). Then there is 2 tags/15 favors for everyone else (Finish).

    It's whoever can grab them at the end of the race, that's all. That's what takes expertise. Knowing when to let off accelerating and letting your momentum take you to the flag, or learning when to jump off your board as so many others do. If you blow by the flag then someone else is going to get it, depending on how close the race is.

    The race is strictly to get monkey tags and the monkey tags are tied to the flags. Everyone gets some, depending on which flag they're able to grab.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    echatty wrote: »
    I found out pretty quickly that you need to barely turn your mouse while speeding through the course, or you will go way off course. I mean, sometimes I barely twitch my mouse and get what I want. I've learned where almost all the 'snags' are. You graze a rock, it throws you off course. Sometimes you can even be nudged by another participant (yes, I've experienced this). It's all part of the race. And yeah, you can know the course backwards and forwards and still come in last.

    I guess I'm doing things wrong, cause most all the time I still only get the Finish flag. But it's easy to run three races and get another monkey researcher mission. If I get lucky and get placed, all the better
    Actually, it's very important to remember that you can run into other racers. If you're trying to pass someone, you must go around them, if you try to go through them it won't work. This goes double for tightly packed opponents; it can make a solid wall. Hmm.. makes me ponder if you can jump over people.....

    Also speed boost or not, ramps slow you down. not MUCH, but.... you don't want to give your opponent any room in a race like this.

    My technique is to hit R and turn on auto-run, then just nudge the left and right keys to steer.

    Also... I've actually memorized the course so thoroughly that even THIS doesn't slow me down:
    screenshot_2016_06_13_18_16_55_by_marhawkman-da6af92.jpg

    Yeah, someone complained about that as well. Said everything disappeared on them. I haven't had that happen, usually I just get nudged around some.

    I still find it a fun race, even if I only place once in awhile.
    When the ground disappears I just watch the channel markers. You know? the buoys with the arrows? those give me all the info I need about how to stay on course. You can clearly see them in the pic I posted.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,918 Arc User
    Yeah, I saw that. Hopefully I won't have the course disappear on me.

    But if so, I'll try not to panic or anything ;)
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    It isn't perfect but it's the best we have. They give a slight border on the track before you get DQ as a grace zone which can give a slight advantage but it's also very risky if you mess up.

    In general people are good because they practice a ton and know the race backwards and forwards. That's not really unfair it just means they have no life. I'm a casual player but I can win on occasion. The key is not making any mistakes.

    If they had multiple tracks that were random it might even the playing field for newer players but I'd say it's not a big deal. Every game has a learning curve and this is the least of all Gameplay we should be concerned about with regards to that.
  • nadiezjanadiezja Member Posts: 629 Arc User
    The flags are dumb. I know there's a skill to getting them with memorizing their positions in the finish area, but that doesn't change that they're dumb.

    Their presence has helped me more than it's hurt me. They're still dumb.

    STO is on the whole a PvE game. Spotlighted, event-based PvP content is jarring.
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    i ran it 3 times got my 6 tags got my monkey and thats , that till next year
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,918 Arc User
    The flags are not dumb. It would be very hard for a computer to accurately 'see' who wins, especially in a crowded race with different computers having different framerates. Therefore, even if it looks like to you that you crossed first, the computer might have seen that person behind you cross first. That's the best way I can say it and it isn't very good, but that's what it is.

    With the flags, sometimes if you think you clicked on it first, someone else clicking at the same time may have gotten in there a hair before you have.

    Nevertheless, I find no purpose to grumbling about it. Grab your flag and go. Have fun. It isn't who gets over the finish line first. Never has been.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    echatty wrote: »
    The flags are not dumb. It would be very hard for a computer to accurately 'see' who wins, especially in a crowded race with different computers having different framerates. Therefore, even if it looks like to you that you crossed first, the computer might have seen that person behind you cross first. That's the best way I can say it and it isn't very good, but that's what it is.

    With the flags, sometimes if you think you clicked on it first, someone else clicking at the same time may have gotten in there a hair before you have.

    Nevertheless, I find no purpose to grumbling about it. Grab your flag and go. Have fun. It isn't who gets over the finish line first. Never has been.

    The flags are asterisking dumb. It is not hard at all for a computer to accurately see who wins. The computer is running the game. It's the players who (allegedly) might have seen things that aren't there, because of lag.

    Having a flag instead of a finish line makes absolutely no difference to the physics of the matter what so ever. Either way someone else may have been "a hair before you have." The real reason there are flags is because everyone's used to the interact buttons not working reliably, so the devs hope players will just blame the wonky buttons and the general chaos of the flag-scramble (that's why the flags don't spawn in the same place, to increase the chaos). It's a skapegoat, an excuse. "The race is not totally asterisked up, you're just unlucky with the flags."

    And it works. Year after year people parrot the same lame excuse.

    The truth is the race IS totally asterisked up, on purpose. And whatever lag problem there would be with a finish line real or not, the flags only make it worse.

    Fortunately I don't have to grab my flag and go, since I already have everything that comes out of that miserable excuse of a race. I can have fun, doing something entirely different. But I do find a purpose complaining about it. If not to hope the devs take the feedback and fix it, because it could be a fun little activity if it wasn't intentionally turned into a brain-meltingly stupid mess to cover up a theoretical lag problem, then at least to inform those who are frustrated by it that it it is intentionally a brain-meltingly stupid mess and they're better off not taking it seriously.
  • skrapnelskrapnel Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    The flags are not dumb. It would be very hard for a computer to accurately 'see' who wins, especially in a crowded race with different computers having different framerates. Therefore, even if it looks like to you that you crossed first, the computer might have seen that person behind you cross first. That's the best way I can say it and it isn't very good, but that's what it is.

    With the flags, sometimes if you think you clicked on it first, someone else clicking at the same time may have gotten in there a hair before you have.

    Nevertheless, I find no purpose to grumbling about it. Grab your flag and go. Have fun. It isn't who gets over the finish line first. Never has been.

    I'd actually, rather have that kind of system for the race. Mostly because it makes coming second hard as it is, ususally if I come in second, I'm going to end up getting the third or finish flag because the best I can hope for is aiming for where second might be.... which moves around, and if you're wrong, someone else is going to get second before you can get there and many times third too. I'd rather just have the computer award it by where it sees people come in..... Or at least they could spawn the flags in the same place all the time like they do in the winter event.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,918 Arc User
    You're completely wrong. The flags have a predetermined place to spawn and it only takes a race or two of observing them to know where the next one will spawn after someone grabs the previous one.

    Cryptic has no reason to 'intentionally' TRIBBLE up the racecourse. I'd like to see hard proof that's what they did. Can you provide it? Or are you just so stupidly angry that they won't change the race for you that you're just spouting this nonsense?

    The race mechanics aren't going to change. It's not that big of a deal. It's a heckuva lot of fun just to run it. Yeah, I try to 'win' it, but I know that's going to happen about once in a blue moon. I'm happy enough to place '2nd', '3rd', or 'consolation'. Either way, I get what I raced for, tags. Not to wag my epeen cause I consistently 'came in first'.

    I've never had a problem interacting with the flags. I'm sorry you do. All it takes is a bit of skill in sliding through so that you have the opportunity to grab another place flag if the one you were aiming for was snatched by someone who got in before you did.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • storulesstorules Member Posts: 3,286 Arc User
    Whats the best way to get to the flag?

    1-Jump ahead and try to walk over there while pressing "F" (interact key")
    2-Just keep on surfing straight up to the right flag...if missing it then go back with surfboard to same spot
    3- Who cares as long as you get either of the flags (1,2,3 or finish)

    I usually do 2 but there is a good chance you will miss it if someone already grabbing the same flag. Oh well better some tags than none bear-14.gif​​
    tumblr_ncbngkt24X1ry46hlo1_400.gif
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    I have the bailout time for the FF calculated now. Last race, I managed to bail and land on the first place flag. WOOT! First Place!

    Also... While the Circus Malvanum event in Champions is similar, but uses a photofinish mechanic.... It has a different set of issues... It's DQ mechanic actually runs on a timer that requires you to hit all the rings in sequence. Which is good, but lag can cause you to fail. In terms of anti-cheating it's killer. You don't get completion credit unless you cross the finish line with the buff the tenth(I think) ring gives you. But you can't get the buff for ring 10 unless you go through it with the buff for ring 9.... etc....

    But that race doesn't give rewards based on placement. It's kinda like what this one would be like if it gave everyone 2 tags.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,918 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    I think I like the way it is now compared to that.

    I get two tags more often than not and you won't see me in chat grumbling and whining about it and screaming that grabbing flags needs to go. You won't even find me grumbling about it to my friends or even IRL while sitting at this table. Many times I know that I missed the place flags through my own mistakes, either overshooting them or not clicking fast enough. I go in expecting two tags, and if I get more, then all the better.

    It isn't that hard to do three races to get the DOFF assignment for that day. In fact, I'm pretty much staying a day ahead on them. On all eight toons I'm doing Risa with.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    Cryptic has no reason to 'intentionally' **** up the racecourse. I'd like to see hard proof that's what they did. Can you provide it?
    Simple deduction.

    1. They said the flags were implemented instead of a finish line because it's possible for lag to cause people to see themselves in a different position in the race than they actually are.
    2. When it comes to deciding "who did it first," there is no difference between pressing a button or crossing a line.
    3. Picking scattered flags is more chaotic and unreliable than crossing a fixed line.

    The flags cannot prevent this effect of players seeing themselves in a different position. But the chaos and unreliability provide a plausible explanation for why someone who appeared to be behind could legitimately have won, to cover up the truth that (s)he was in fact in the lead all along and the 2nd place just didn't see it because the game is lagged up. Or in other words, an intentionally chaotic and unreliable system was used instead of a finish line because the chaos and unreliability would distract players from complaining about the lag.

    And you continuing to argue against this is proof the distraction works.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,918 Arc User
    I can see that you see buggers behind every window. I didn't ask for your deductions, I asked for hard proof. Anyone can make up deductions about something to suit their own conclusions, but without hard evidence to back it up, that's all it is-conjecture and opinion.

    So forgive me if I don't believe one word you say. Or not. Makes no difference to me. I race to have fun. I have fun and I have no problems clicking a 'Finish' flag to get two tags which are guaranteed to everyone who races.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    board have less TC the more powerful you get, it isnt oversteer, its more like understeer/push until you need to turn the board around by then the board is sliding around until it stops. if it were oversteer, the rear of the board would of swapped ends when you went over a bump or slowed down in a sharp turn.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,918 Arc User
    Oh, I have no problems staying on/near the course while racing. I know not to much more than jiggle my mouse to correct my course. I've almost figured out when to get off the W button so I can let my momentum get me to the flag. Problem is, since I'm not the only one there, it's who can click fastest. Therefore I try to steer between where I know two flags will spawn and that helps me get a place flag sometimes.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,918 Arc User
    And another observation I've had while doing this race. I see people in chat all the time after a race, whining about cheating. I think they probably mean those who go beyond the lane markers, taking a 'shortcut'. I've been guilty of that myself. I think the game gives you a generous amount of leeway to account for 'accidentally' steering off course a bit. Many of the veteran racers know where those invisible lines are and use them to their advantage. I know where some are, so use them to just keep up with the others and hope I can click faster than someone else on the place flags. It's worked for me sometimes, most times not. But I'm happy with two tags per race, even while I hope for more.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,449 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    Also, the flags do not 'move'. Each one has a pre-determined place and will always spawn at that place once the previous flag has been grabbed. One just needs to memorize where the three place flags will spawn and adjust accordingly if you see you aren't going to get the one you're originally going for.

    I think that's TRIBBLE, especially when you're down to the wire for a place, you shouldn't have to readjust when you're a second off. At least have all the flags spawn in the same place.
    warpangel wrote: »
    When I did it to collect the monkeys and the accolade, I came to the conclusion that trying to "win" the "race" is...well I could write a descriptive statement but it would probably be half asterisks.

    To retain sanity, this is my advice. Forget they ever advertised it as a "race." Treat it as yet another hoop-jumping mission. Pretend the other players don't exist. Just take a leisurely surf to the end and pick up a flag. You'll get some monkey tokens, and it'll count for the accolade.

    And when you have your monkeys, and the accolade, or decide you don't want them anymore, forget the "race" ever existed. This is your true reward, that makes it all worth it.

    Sound advice is sound.
    Not surprised that most everything here is about complaining about the known issues or whatever.
    I was actually looking to see if any complaints have been started about players exploiting the game with snow boots that run the race (on foot) and come in first without even using a board. These players can out run (go faster) than any board available.
    Havn't seen any yet. Go figure.

    :D

    I've never seen that, that's hilarious.
    nadiezja wrote: »
    The flags are dumb. I know there's a skill to getting them with memorizing their positions in the finish area, but that doesn't change that they're dumb.

    Their presence has helped me more than it's hurt me. They're still dumb.

    STO is on the whole a PvE game. Spotlighted, event-based PvP content is jarring.

    Agreed. That's the thing that actively pisses me off, it's such a stupid mechanic. I would rather have no race at all than a race where crossing the finish line doesn't actually get you the win.
    echatty wrote: »
    The flags are not dumb. It would be very hard for a computer to accurately 'see' who wins, especially in a crowded race with different computers having different framerates. Therefore, even if it looks like to you that you crossed first, the computer might have seen that person behind you cross first. That's the best way I can say it and it isn't very good, but that's what it is.

    With the flags, sometimes if you think you clicked on it first, someone else clicking at the same time may have gotten in there a hair before you have.

    Nevertheless, I find no purpose to grumbling about it. Grab your flag and go. Have fun. It isn't who gets over the finish line first. Never has been.

    No. How is that any different than the computer not being able to tell who crossed the finish line first. All it does is add another unnecessary step where you can STILL get screwed over by different framerates and lag. It can tell when I cross a checkpoint in the floater mission, but not when I cross a finish line? Poppycock. The flags solve absolutely nothing and add a silly complexity that severs it from actually being a race.

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    "Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many — they are few"
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    I can see that you see buggers behind every window. I didn't ask for your deductions, I asked for hard proof. Anyone can make up deductions about something to suit their own conclusions, but without hard evidence to back it up, that's all it is-conjecture and opinion.

    So forgive me if I don't believe one word you say. Or not. Makes no difference to me. I race to have fun. I have fun and I have no problems clicking a 'Finish' flag to get two tags which are guaranteed to everyone who races.
    This is the internet. I have no expectation for logic to win over stubborn belief. I have shared my knowledge and advice, what you believe I couldn't care less.

    And as I said, you continuing to argue just proves that the flag system does exactly what it's supposed to.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,918 Arc User
    All you've given me is your own version of what you think is happening. Doesn't make it true unless you have facts to back it up with.

    Now, I'll just go and have fun and let you stew in your entitlement broth.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • rickpaaarickpaaa Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    As with the winter race, it doesn't matter if I come in first. I come in last due to the flag grabbing mechanics and lag. I save myself the headache and either don't race, or do so casually with no expectations of winning. Hell... I even use the expensive and worthless Targ board!
    giphy.gif
    Member since December 2009


  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,918 Arc User
    I use the BTTF board. I don't race with any expectations of 'winning' anything except two tags, just like on the Winter games. But at least there is no exploit that lets someone grab a flag they didn't race around the track to earn.

    Most of the time I 'miss' a place flag due to my own miscalculations, but it's nothing to complain about. Everyone is guaranteed two tags for participating and getting to the end without getting a DQ.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    Admittedly, I don't do the power board racing anymore. I got the accolade and I have all the monkey pets so there isn't really a reason anymore. I'm thankful for that because the race is a little frustrating. Not the actual race itself, but the finish line. Having to interact with the win flag at the end of the race is kind of annoying. I was never terrible at it myself, but I have seen people who were ahead the entire race lose spectacularly when they couldn't interact with the flag for whatever reason and ended up in last place. I can see how people would find that annoying.
    Tza0PEl.png
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,918 Arc User
    I don't have all monkeys on all alts yet, but I'm also raising for marks to turn in for dil.

    It isn't worth griefing over what is perceived as broken. Grab two tags at the finish and go. Rinse and repeat at the next race.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    I cook monkeys instead of collecting them... mmmm rep marks. :)
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,918 Arc User
    I cook the ones that are duplicates of ones I already have.

    Looking to try to get a tufted passion wing on one of my alts who doesn't have one yet. The adult would look so good with her (she's purple-skinned/pink hair)
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
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