The elephant in the room question.
If the fleet did not donate a single EC toward a player who had to use his/her own money and or grinding
to get 5 fleet modules worth roughly 80 mil EC to purchase the ship.
Why should that player THEN have to donate 100,000 - 300,000 to have the right to spend their own money ?
and that 100,00 is expensive a donated doff costs 30,000 EC and only gets you 250 points.
the clear fact....Fleet takes a lot, the only thing they offer back is permission
Then join a fleet with a time-gate, and put in the time.
There are a lot of Top Tier fleets out there now. You can find one that will suit your needs.
To address your specific question: I can only offer my own experience. Fleet modules I obtain because I myself want a ship. That's my choice. Part of the process of getting that fleet ship is obtaining the resources for the module. The other part of the process is having available fleet stores and permissions. I don't feel like the fleet owes me permissions for free. I also don't feel like the fleet has to provide me the modules.
You can also avoid the need for modules and fleet ships entirely by obtaining a lockbox ship or a zen ship that already has 11 consoles. (An Odyssey or a Pilot Escort come to mind on Fed Side). At that point you just need the consoles themselves, like Vulnerability Locators and Embassy Consoles.
Modules are only needed for ships. Ships are one of the most desired things fleets have to offer.
But again if all you are looking for is a T6 Fleet Ship, there are some options open to you that don't involve spending resources. Ask around.
Fleet do not offer ships, they keep you from buying them unless you pay them off.
The Fleet does not help a player to get a cool ship.
Allowing a player to spend their OWN money, credits ect. FOR A FEE...is not helping a player.
Sorry, but I didn't specify. The 100K donation is to "fleet holding projects." You'll be doing this anyway to convert things like fleet marks into fleet credits to spend in the fleet stores, which you've just helped to provision by contributiong to the fleet projects. It's a participation thing.
There is a tab for reviewing "overall fleet contributions" which is checked. People get promoted to rank 2, then have limited access to all but the lockdown section, which is top leaders only in our fleet. The other 7 bank tabs (which are for things like ship equipment, ship weapons, ground gear, etc.) allow members to grab about 10 things to limit how much goes away too quickly. It's 95% good gear, as the real trash gets sold for EC to go into the fleet EC bank, which also has a withdrawal limit based on rank.
The only time constraint is how much you choose to do, and how you spend your time getting it done. I was rank 2 in about 4 days when I joined, and I found a person in game to recruit me who I had never met before. He told me the rules, and that was it. No muss, no fuss, and ZERO pressure /expectations.
Sorry, but I didn't specify. The 100K donation is to "fleet holding projects." You'll be doing this anyway to convert things like fleet marks into fleet credits to spend in the fleet stores, which you've just helped to provision by contributiong to the fleet projects. It's a participation thing.
There is a tab for reviewing "overall fleet contributions" which is checked. People get promoted to rank 2, then have limited access to all but the lockdown section, which is top leaders only in our fleet. The other 7 bank tabs (which are for things like ship equipment, ship weapons, ground gear, etc.) allow members to grab about 10 things to limit how much goes away too quickly. It's 95% good gear, as the real trash gets sold for EC to go into the fleet EC bank, which also has a withdrawal limit based on rank.
The only time constraint is how much you choose to do, and how you spend your time getting it done. I was rank 2 in about 4 days when I joined, and I found a person in game to recruit me who I had never met before. He told me the rules, and that was it. No muss, no fuss, and ZERO pressure /expectations.
That's pretty much exactly how my fleet does it. No pressure at all. The donations are tracked by the fleet contributions tool right there. It's exactly that, a participation thing.
The first fleet I was in had this absurd requirement that the only way to get promoted was to bring new people into the fleet because one of the fleet leaders had 22 (yes, twenty-two) alts and always filled the holding requisitions instantly. Nobody who wasn't a leader could get access to the fleet stores or the bank without begging one of the leaders for permission (which you weren't going to get).
tl;dr It was a nightmare.
So a few friends and I left and formed our own fleet. It was a simple, no pressure sort of thing. 100K in contributions to any holding and you'd get access to the stores. Beyond that, nobody was required to do anything. Bank access was available to anybody who wanted it. We got a few additional members and it went well for about three months, and one day I logged on to find that everyone in the fleet had left. No words, no messages, no reasons. Just Poof! It's been just me ever since.
fleets do have a Problem. But that's not founding them (helped founding two other fleets by leaving mine, teaming up and then rejoining my "old" fleet).
The real Problem is economics. you have quite a few Players who want to donate fleet marks and cannot. And one or two Players who donate Dilithium. If no one donates Dilithium, then fleets don't grow.
The very concept of "donation" is the problem there and it ties in to the "infinite potential for scamming" I mentioned before. The fleet system, like most similar systems in other games, is designed like a medieval dictatorship where players can only hope to find one ruled by good people. And after finding one, hope it stays ruled by good people. It's no surprise that this fails to engage the average player. There is significant risk involved.
If holding development was framed as investment, if the players who paid to build the fleet would own their fair share of the fleet instead existing only at the mercy of whoever happens to sit on the highest rank, people would be more willing to spend actual resources.
My Suggestion: add a "turn fleet marks into fleet Dilithium voucher" Feature. Or add fleet Dilithium vouchers as an additional reward for PvEs or PvPs (maybe even a Bonus if teamed up with fleet members?)
Looked at the dil exchange recently? This game needs more dil sinks, not less.
I've been in two fleets over the last 6 years, both eventually put a "buy in" on new members, and it was to have them show a little commitment (in both cases 50k fleet creds, which the average person has sitting around right now in Dilithium because of the CC event) before they could go in and use all the provisions they wanted. It's not a scam, it's because they want people to stay and be a part of things.
There are a lot of larger fleets who will let you join on a whim and spend away (because they literally have more provisions than could ever be used up by "real" members), all you need to do is ask around in the Public Service channel. It might take a little while for someone to respond, but there are plenty of people doing it.
As has been said, the thing people get worked up about is joining with a few thousand fleet marks and being unable to cash them in. In those cases, you can usually ask in that same public service channel if anyone wants mark donations and eventually someone will bite.
So, are there flaws? Sure. But not tantrum-worthy ones.
The elephant in the room question.
If the fleet did not donate a single EC toward a player who had to use his/her own money and or grinding
to get 5 fleet modules worth roughly 80 mil EC to purchase the ship.
Why should that player THEN have to donate 100,000 - 300,000 to have the right to spend their own money ?
and that 100,00 is expensive a donated doff costs 30,000 EC and only gets you 250 points.
the clear fact....Fleet takes a lot, the only thing they offer back is permission
I ask this with sincerity, not sarcasm (like my earlier bank comment):
Have you truly, fully looked at the cost of a fleet ship in the shipyard(s)? If so, you'll notice that one of the requirements is one military fleet ship provision.
So, how do you plan on acquiring this fleet ship provision?
Especially in light of the fact that these provisions aren't bound to any character, they're bound to a fleet...
Now, I have a "personal / family" fleet with a T2 shipyard. To create 5 shipyard provisions requires 158,000 dilithium, to create a 7-pack requires 455 warp coils, 910 shield generators, 40,000 expertise, 23 non-civilian DOffs, 28,440 dilithium and 546 fleet marks.
This doesn't count the numerous tactical DOffs, photon torpedo launchers in Mk I and Mk III, fleet marks, commodities, and dilithium I (and a few friends/armada mates) spent to reach T2 shipyard.
If you think I, myself, can just afford to let one of these provisions go willy-nilly, especially in light of a son who could clean me out as he earns fleet marks grabbing ships for Admiralty...
You willing to "buy" a 5 or 7 pack so you can get the one you need? And the ship you want is in a T2 Feddie shipyard? I'm game. Do note, that you also have to "clear a slot" to let me get the provision project active, so there's a bit more investment(s) necessary to convince me to slot a project...
And this is in what's currently essentially a one-man fleet, because my son doesn't play an awful heck of a lot. Can you imagine what leadership of an actual multi-person fleet must agonize over trying to balance fleet advancement rates with provision management?
Or, I could just institute a "please donate 50,000 or so fleet credits worth" of stuffs requirement and let you donate to whatever projects I have active today and then allow you access to that one provision - and I'll have to cross the bridge of replacing that provision when my son decides he needs that third ship...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I don't want to make my own fleet for bank slots; I seldom use the ones I have. Due to circumstances over the past few years, however, I find myself having three Cryptic accounts. And as I really enjoy STO, I have captains on all the accounts. I want to make my solo fleet in order to make it easier to share items and EC between my accounts!
Sadly, as I tend not to devote myself to the acquisition of credits, I'm not sure I've got a million EC on hand to buy friends with. I might have to give that a shot later. (The other reason I wanted to do so, in order to mock folks who think they've been accusatory by forming the Cryptic Defense Fleet, might not work - I wasn't able to call my CO supergroup "Cryptic Defense Force", because apparently the word "Cryptic" is disallowed. Right now, in response to the Tribune Group's recent decision, the SG goes by "TRONC".)
Pardon me asking but don't you just need five silver accounts? Why not just roll those accounts and run them at the same time? Then you have one each private fleet?
I believe this might actually be against the Terms of Use.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,666Community Moderator
The fleet I'm in had a problem with someone looting our bank to sell stuff on the exchange. I actually watched this guy go from the bank console to the Exchange console on old ESD and reported this behavior to my fleet leader. After that I would document things that were taken in a spreadsheet (Item, quality, amount) and when I had about a week's worth of NCIS theme playing in my ear, I presented the results of said documentation to my fleet leader. Guy got kicked, and my fleet leader warned another fleet he had been courting about why he was booted from our fleet, complete with my spreadsheet.
We're pretty open with our store and bank. We don't have a set amount of contributions because we're a T5 fleet with finished holdings. Lately it's been more "Just hang out with us. Get to know each other" sort of thing. Get a promote from Recruit to Member, you can buy from our stores.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
@warpangel:
I didn't say reduce the Dil we get - I suggested ADDING a possibility of transferring fleet marks into Dil vouchers - I have more than 10k Fleet marks that I haven't spent because fleet members are whining that they cannot donate and get promotions. And we are fine on fleet marks. However, we are desperately short on Dilithium and I Keep donating a few 100ks....and I am basically bankrupt (well, not since the Event is over now...)
also ADDING Dil vouchers for PvEs - not replacing Dilithium with Dil vouchers.
Cryptic implemented fleets - and I think they should also promote them.
That said: Players want Zen/Need Dilithium. If they added those vouchers, then Players might spend less real Money on the game - I know some fleet leads buy Zen and trade it for Dil to fill Projects...
18 characters
KDF: 2 tacs, 2 engs, 3 scis
KDF Roms: 3 tacs, 1 eng, 1 scis
FED: 2 tacs, 1 eng, 2 scis
TOS: 1 tac
all on T5 rep (up to temporal)
all have mastered Intel tree (and some more specs Points)
highest DPS: 60.982
The elephant in the room question.
If the fleet did not donate a single EC toward a player who had to use his/her own money and or grinding
to get 5 fleet modules worth roughly 80 mil EC to purchase the ship.
Why should that player THEN have to donate 100,000 - 300,000 to have the right to spend their own money ?
and that 100,00 is expensive a donated doff costs 30,000 EC and only gets you 250 points.
the clear fact....Fleet takes a lot, the only thing they offer back is permission
Yeah, and saving you having to do this lot: http://sto.gamepedia.com/User:MatthewM/FleetCosts and http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Starbase for yourself. There is a lot more to that permission thing than your appraisal of it.
But it is hard to take you seriously when you are really complaining at your own inefficiency; just by changing which doffs you buy and spending a bit of time doffing at the academy you could cut your EC cost for Doffs in half or by two thirds easily, market dependant.
What you do is buy cheap blue doffs, and at your faction's academy you break them down to whites; a ~100-150k EC blue doff becomes 9 white doffs, which equates to about double your doffs per EC rate on average. Then there are also the recruitment doffing missions which return doffs for waiting, and running those gives a nice boost of free doffs.
I appreciate you might not be able to get the 300FC per doff that they can be worth due to circumstances outside of your control if you aren't in charge of slotting projects, but you can do better at the doff supply.
Next, your modules; you do realise that taking the lockbox key as the standard measure of Zen->EC, modules and ship upgrade tokens are undervalued by several million EC each? Right now, I've literally just logged onto the game to check, the five cheapest Fleet Ship Modules are worth 13.4, 13.499, 13.5, 13.5 and 13.5 million EC; together that's 67.399 million, 13 million less than your estimate above. If we take Lockbox keys as our measure for what Zen is worth in EC, then these 5 modules are actually worth 91 million EC. (20 keys x 4.55 million EC)
Using your method of 30k EC/250FC into a Fleet using your higher 300k FC requirement, your cost is 103.399 million EC. Using a different fleet who charges your 100k FC, and my doff suggestion above, your estimate of 80 million EC actually buys you the ship and the provision access (67.399+4.627) with change, and the 91 million EC it should have costed you buys the provision itself as well*, with 1.38 million EC change.**
And, this all assumes that you had to pay to get the fleet access and pay for the provision, which is not a given because that is exactly the circumstance one of my Fed-Tacs got her FACR-U in, by asking in NoP public service for fleet ship access, eventually she got an offer from a fleet who let her in and allowed her to buy the ship without contributions*** or paying for the provision of theirs she used - under these circumstances your 80 million gives you 12.5 million EC change.
TL;DR - just consider the cost of joining the fleet as part of the cost of your ship, unless you need to pay for the provision specifically by soloing a project, your 80 million EC covers it. *And other Fleet ships too; cost of project factored in by assuming the 200k Dil project for 4 ships, which equates to 484 Zen*4 and 20 million EC by 500 pieces of 40k EC contraband; other fleet ship provision projects will vary and may well be a lot cheaper on a per ship basis even if that doesn't help you. If you want to do the maths, because I can't be bothered to do any more, the projects are all listed here: http://sto.gamepedia.com/List_of_starbase_projects
** the 67.399 + 4.627 + 20 is 89.64 million EC.
*** Result may not be representative of a typical experience, but it can happen because it did; also, NoP public service operates on the basis that you don't pay for fleet starbase access, so people from low tier fleets get access to higher tier fleets bases etc. and spend their own provisions, and pragmatically deserve being mentioned whenever the subject of fleets comes up, because there are almost certainly people in this thread who could benefit from what they do.
*4 Actually 483.091787 Zen, but you can only get whole numbers of Zen.
Comments
If the fleet did not donate a single EC toward a player who had to use his/her own money and or grinding
to get 5 fleet modules worth roughly 80 mil EC to purchase the ship.
Why should that player THEN have to donate 100,000 - 300,000 to have the right to spend their own money ?
and that 100,00 is expensive a donated doff costs 30,000 EC and only gets you 250 points.
the clear fact....Fleet takes a lot, the only thing they offer back is permission
I would personally love the reverse. Let me burn Dil into fleet marks.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
There are a lot of Top Tier fleets out there now. You can find one that will suit your needs.
To address your specific question: I can only offer my own experience. Fleet modules I obtain because I myself want a ship. That's my choice. Part of the process of getting that fleet ship is obtaining the resources for the module. The other part of the process is having available fleet stores and permissions. I don't feel like the fleet owes me permissions for free. I also don't feel like the fleet has to provide me the modules.
You can also avoid the need for modules and fleet ships entirely by obtaining a lockbox ship or a zen ship that already has 11 consoles. (An Odyssey or a Pilot Escort come to mind on Fed Side). At that point you just need the consoles themselves, like Vulnerability Locators and Embassy Consoles.
Modules are only needed for ships. Ships are one of the most desired things fleets have to offer.
But again if all you are looking for is a T6 Fleet Ship, there are some options open to you that don't involve spending resources. Ask around.
The Fleet does not help a player to get a cool ship.
Allowing a player to spend their OWN money, credits ect. FOR A FEE...is not helping a player.
There is a tab for reviewing "overall fleet contributions" which is checked. People get promoted to rank 2, then have limited access to all but the lockdown section, which is top leaders only in our fleet. The other 7 bank tabs (which are for things like ship equipment, ship weapons, ground gear, etc.) allow members to grab about 10 things to limit how much goes away too quickly. It's 95% good gear, as the real trash gets sold for EC to go into the fleet EC bank, which also has a withdrawal limit based on rank.
The only time constraint is how much you choose to do, and how you spend your time getting it done. I was rank 2 in about 4 days when I joined, and I found a person in game to recruit me who I had never met before. He told me the rules, and that was it. No muss, no fuss, and ZERO pressure /expectations.
That's pretty much exactly how my fleet does it. No pressure at all. The donations are tracked by the fleet contributions tool right there. It's exactly that, a participation thing.
tl;dr It was a nightmare.
So a few friends and I left and formed our own fleet. It was a simple, no pressure sort of thing. 100K in contributions to any holding and you'd get access to the stores. Beyond that, nobody was required to do anything. Bank access was available to anybody who wanted it. We got a few additional members and it went well for about three months, and one day I logged on to find that everyone in the fleet had left. No words, no messages, no reasons. Just Poof! It's been just me ever since.
I've been in two fleets over the last 6 years, both eventually put a "buy in" on new members, and it was to have them show a little commitment (in both cases 50k fleet creds, which the average person has sitting around right now in Dilithium because of the CC event) before they could go in and use all the provisions they wanted. It's not a scam, it's because they want people to stay and be a part of things.
There are a lot of larger fleets who will let you join on a whim and spend away (because they literally have more provisions than could ever be used up by "real" members), all you need to do is ask around in the Public Service channel. It might take a little while for someone to respond, but there are plenty of people doing it.
As has been said, the thing people get worked up about is joining with a few thousand fleet marks and being unable to cash them in. In those cases, you can usually ask in that same public service channel if anyone wants mark donations and eventually someone will bite.
So, are there flaws? Sure. But not tantrum-worthy ones.
I ask this with sincerity, not sarcasm (like my earlier bank comment):
Have you truly, fully looked at the cost of a fleet ship in the shipyard(s)? If so, you'll notice that one of the requirements is one military fleet ship provision.
So, how do you plan on acquiring this fleet ship provision?
Especially in light of the fact that these provisions aren't bound to any character, they're bound to a fleet...
Now, I have a "personal / family" fleet with a T2 shipyard. To create 5 shipyard provisions requires 158,000 dilithium, to create a 7-pack requires 455 warp coils, 910 shield generators, 40,000 expertise, 23 non-civilian DOffs, 28,440 dilithium and 546 fleet marks.
This doesn't count the numerous tactical DOffs, photon torpedo launchers in Mk I and Mk III, fleet marks, commodities, and dilithium I (and a few friends/armada mates) spent to reach T2 shipyard.
If you think I, myself, can just afford to let one of these provisions go willy-nilly, especially in light of a son who could clean me out as he earns fleet marks grabbing ships for Admiralty...
You willing to "buy" a 5 or 7 pack so you can get the one you need? And the ship you want is in a T2 Feddie shipyard? I'm game. Do note, that you also have to "clear a slot" to let me get the provision project active, so there's a bit more investment(s) necessary to convince me to slot a project...
And this is in what's currently essentially a one-man fleet, because my son doesn't play an awful heck of a lot. Can you imagine what leadership of an actual multi-person fleet must agonize over trying to balance fleet advancement rates with provision management?
Or, I could just institute a "please donate 50,000 or so fleet credits worth" of stuffs requirement and let you donate to whatever projects I have active today and then allow you access to that one provision - and I'll have to cross the bridge of replacing that provision when my son decides he needs that third ship...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Sadly, as I tend not to devote myself to the acquisition of credits, I'm not sure I've got a million EC on hand to buy friends with. I might have to give that a shot later. (The other reason I wanted to do so, in order to mock folks who think they've been accusatory by forming the Cryptic Defense Fleet, might not work - I wasn't able to call my CO supergroup "Cryptic Defense Force", because apparently the word "Cryptic" is disallowed. Right now, in response to the Tribune Group's recent decision, the SG goes by "TRONC".)
We're pretty open with our store and bank. We don't have a set amount of contributions because we're a T5 fleet with finished holdings. Lately it's been more "Just hang out with us. Get to know each other" sort of thing. Get a promote from Recruit to Member, you can buy from our stores.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Hopefully you've learned something from the responses, for example that fleets DO need to spend dil and EC to get the ship provisions.
I didn't say reduce the Dil we get - I suggested ADDING a possibility of transferring fleet marks into Dil vouchers - I have more than 10k Fleet marks that I haven't spent because fleet members are whining that they cannot donate and get promotions. And we are fine on fleet marks. However, we are desperately short on Dilithium and I Keep donating a few 100ks....and I am basically bankrupt (well, not since the Event is over now...)
also ADDING Dil vouchers for PvEs - not replacing Dilithium with Dil vouchers.
Cryptic implemented fleets - and I think they should also promote them.
That said: Players want Zen/Need Dilithium. If they added those vouchers, then Players might spend less real Money on the game - I know some fleet leads buy Zen and trade it for Dil to fill Projects...
KDF: 2 tacs, 2 engs, 3 scis
KDF Roms: 3 tacs, 1 eng, 1 scis
FED: 2 tacs, 1 eng, 2 scis
TOS: 1 tac
all on T5 rep (up to temporal)
all have mastered Intel tree (and some more specs Points)
highest DPS: 60.982
Yeah, and saving you having to do this lot: http://sto.gamepedia.com/User:MatthewM/FleetCosts and http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Starbase for yourself. There is a lot more to that permission thing than your appraisal of it.
But it is hard to take you seriously when you are really complaining at your own inefficiency; just by changing which doffs you buy and spending a bit of time doffing at the academy you could cut your EC cost for Doffs in half or by two thirds easily, market dependant.
What you do is buy cheap blue doffs, and at your faction's academy you break them down to whites; a ~100-150k EC blue doff becomes 9 white doffs, which equates to about double your doffs per EC rate on average. Then there are also the recruitment doffing missions which return doffs for waiting, and running those gives a nice boost of free doffs.
I appreciate you might not be able to get the 300FC per doff that they can be worth due to circumstances outside of your control if you aren't in charge of slotting projects, but you can do better at the doff supply.
Next, your modules; you do realise that taking the lockbox key as the standard measure of Zen->EC, modules and ship upgrade tokens are undervalued by several million EC each? Right now, I've literally just logged onto the game to check, the five cheapest Fleet Ship Modules are worth 13.4, 13.499, 13.5, 13.5 and 13.5 million EC; together that's 67.399 million, 13 million less than your estimate above. If we take Lockbox keys as our measure for what Zen is worth in EC, then these 5 modules are actually worth 91 million EC. (20 keys x 4.55 million EC)
Using your method of 30k EC/250FC into a Fleet using your higher 300k FC requirement, your cost is 103.399 million EC. Using a different fleet who charges your 100k FC, and my doff suggestion above, your estimate of 80 million EC actually buys you the ship and the provision access (67.399+4.627) with change, and the 91 million EC it should have costed you buys the provision itself as well*, with 1.38 million EC change.**
And, this all assumes that you had to pay to get the fleet access and pay for the provision, which is not a given because that is exactly the circumstance one of my Fed-Tacs got her FACR-U in, by asking in NoP public service for fleet ship access, eventually she got an offer from a fleet who let her in and allowed her to buy the ship without contributions*** or paying for the provision of theirs she used - under these circumstances your 80 million gives you 12.5 million EC change.
TL;DR - just consider the cost of joining the fleet as part of the cost of your ship, unless you need to pay for the provision specifically by soloing a project, your 80 million EC covers it.
*And other Fleet ships too; cost of project factored in by assuming the 200k Dil project for 4 ships, which equates to 484 Zen*4 and 20 million EC by 500 pieces of 40k EC contraband; other fleet ship provision projects will vary and may well be a lot cheaper on a per ship basis even if that doesn't help you. If you want to do the maths, because I can't be bothered to do any more, the projects are all listed here: http://sto.gamepedia.com/List_of_starbase_projects
** the 67.399 + 4.627 + 20 is 89.64 million EC.
*** Result may not be representative of a typical experience, but it can happen because it did; also, NoP public service operates on the basis that you don't pay for fleet starbase access, so people from low tier fleets get access to higher tier fleets bases etc. and spend their own provisions, and pragmatically deserve being mentioned whenever the subject of fleets comes up, because there are almost certainly people in this thread who could benefit from what they do.
*4 Actually 483.091787 Zen, but you can only get whole numbers of Zen.
I spent way too much time doing this post.