As I have mentioned in a post elewhere I'm a President of something or other so my vote counts for 90% of all votes and this is the real top film list:
1.The Wrath of Khan
2. First Contact
3. The Undiscovered Country
4. The Voyage Home
5. Final Frontier
6. The Search for Spock
7. Nemesis
8. Generations
9. Insurrection
10. The Motion Picture.
So it as been stated, so mote it be.
Personally I think the JJ films are ok, they should have made them set in a completely new Sci-fi creation, just "re-imagining" other peoples creations and ideas is creative bankruptcy, clearly the studio thought haveing a ready made fan base would help with the film's success.
If AoY is a mistake - for instance, Cardassian expansion will be twice that mistake.
The large part of those, who now request this expansion, will be disgruntled with it - because they don't take into the account that the option of fitting in Cardassian storyline are very limited.
Basically, Cardassian faction at the moment means:
1) Federation-only allegiance - as Cardassian Union is a Federation protectorate in all but name. (It is actually fairly logical considering the aftermath of Dominion War).
2) No canon Cardassian ships at end-game. That ship has sailed with Cardassian lockbox. And putting now a T6 Galor in a C-Store means giving a middle finger to all the T5U lockbox Galor owners. So the canon ships only as T1-T4 with inferior stats, at best.
And Fed ships for end-game as a result of Federation allegiance.
As the current story is concerned the non-go options are:
1) True Way allegiance. Because;
a) there is no place for a "villain" faction. (And it presents numerous technical difficulties like the necessity for a full set of separate social zones as they won't be able to use the existing ones due to obvious reasons).
b) The True Way is actually almost non-existent as a result of "Cardassian Struggle". Most of their leadership and military force are destroyed, their alliance with alpha Jem'Hadar and New Link has ended.
2) Klingon allegiance. It is problematic to join KDF when your state is a Federation protectorate.
So in the end many of those who are now pushing for Cardassian expansion, when it will hypothetically go live, are going to tell that it sucks and abandon this content due to features that are predictable from the start.
And Cardassian per se are even less popular than Romulans. So it's quite possible that Cardassian expansion will be a failure - it poses great risk.
With the work put in to moving us BACKWARDS with a TOS UFP mini-faction, which I do not recall ANYONE asking for, they could have given us a Cardassian mini-faction which could join either the UFP or the KDF like the NRR mini-faction, which people HAVE been asking for.
You know... you can have a "cardassian mini-faction" if you want.
Create a KDF or Federation Alien with the cardassian look (the editor features every detail you need). Write a biography that kinda goes the Garak-way of lying and pretending, or go the D'Tan-way of seeking allies in a dark hour while secretly seeking to lead Cardassia to new glory. Get a Galor at VA/BG-rank and you're set!
C'mon... Cardassia was bombed by the Dominion last stand in the Alpha-Quadrant. All that a caring cardassian could do now is becoming part of a MAJOR faction to make sure Cardassia becomes part or ally of it so Cardassia can rebuild in secret!
That would be a *true* cardassian mini-faction. Could even have a cardassian-exclusive fleet.
the entire climax of the film is built on a flat impossibility, particle density in a nebula is too low to obscure anything, they only look like clouds from light years away.
I agree with everything you say about ratings and reviews. But this one point I have to nit pick.
You are ready to toss out the plot of The Wrath of Khan because of a fanciful, fictional take, on a nebula, but in that same film you are completely ready to believe in ...
Warp Drive, The Genesis Device, Subspace, Subspace communications, Transporters, the existence of Vulcans, who have green blood, and so very much more.
I mean, as a plot device the Nebula is there to add drama and make the combat scene like a very tense submarine combat, breaking away from the Horatio Hornblower model of tall ships combat that Roddenberry laid out for Star Trek back in its TV show days. It was a chance to give a backdrop to Kirk and his crew to outsmart a better armed, more powerful foe in a game of space-cat-and-mouse.
It required some suspension of disbelief.
But so does almost everything else in Star Trek. From the transporter device, to the sound effects you see in that very scene of phasers going off and torpedoes exploding.
I think the dense nebula is the least of the things that stretch belief in the story.
For me the nebula is the biggest offender, ftl drive, comms etc, thats all part of the setting, plus I personally won't believe ftl travel is impossible until it is proven impossible by actual test flights. I'm not saying I give everything else a pass because I don't.
You believe that there's sound effects in space, phasers making pew pew noises and torpedoes exploding with tons of sound and explosions ... but the nebula holds you back?
My Favorite Star Trek Film, is always the one Paramount is planning on making next...
From that point on, my favorite one is whichever one I'm re-watching at the moment.
(HINT: I like um all)
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I voted for Cardassians years ago, sadly we got the usual suspects the Romulans, the problem is they are leaving it very late to squeeze them in because of content available. The other option is the Borg Co-operative, they could fit them in a littleeasier slap on an extra section of the Delta quadrant to start from, of course like the Cardassians there could be some problems squeezing them into the end game stuff, that is less faction specific.
Umnnn stop dreaming , there is no new faction , no new story line , nothing you have hoped for , its just a few ToS related missions , after that you „join” the federation in 25th century and play as a normal fed caracter , with rewards for completing objectives , thats it. So make new charater , level up , and keep it for dilithium farm , end of AoY story.
And I suppose you know everything that will (apparently not) come, but hasn't yet been added? Do share with us your time travel device..if you would rather not, I suggest that you keep the relevant spoilers to yourself - not everybody wants to have the start of it spoiled, even if it "only" looks like 6 missions and a Delta Recruitment rehash.
the entire climax of the film is built on a flat impossibility, particle density in a nebula is too low to obscure anything, they only look like clouds from light years away.
I agree with everything you say about ratings and reviews. But this one point I have to nit pick.
You are ready to toss out the plot of The Wrath of Khan because of a fanciful, fictional take, on a nebula, but in that same film you are completely ready to believe in ...
Warp Drive, The Genesis Device, Subspace, Subspace communications, Transporters, the existence of Vulcans, who have green blood, and so very much more.
I mean, as a plot device the Nebula is there to add drama and make the combat scene like a very tense submarine combat, breaking away from the Horatio Hornblower model of tall ships combat that Roddenberry laid out for Star Trek back in its TV show days. It was a chance to give a backdrop to Kirk and his crew to outsmart a better armed, more powerful foe in a game of space-cat-and-mouse.
It required some suspension of disbelief.
But so does almost everything else in Star Trek. From the transporter device, to the sound effects you see in that very scene of phasers going off and torpedoes exploding.
I think the dense nebula is the least of the things that stretch belief in the story.
For me the nebula is the biggest offender, ftl drive, comms etc, thats all part of the setting, plus I personally won't believe ftl travel is impossible until it is proven impossible by actual test flights. I'm not saying I give everything else a pass because I don't.
You believe that there's sound effects in space, phasers making pew pew noises and torpedoes exploding with tons of sound and explosions ... but the nebula holds you back?
I call shenanigans!
I watched a Science Fiction anime that had the best explanation for this. They edited in the sounds and weapons fire in post-production before release to the public of the anime's universe. Realistic space battles are extremely boring. No noticeable weapon fire from energy weapons with maybe the odd speck of light from the torpedoes activating their engines. The only thing noticeable is when the weapons actually hit the ship. In order for Phasers to be visible in space besides the glow of the phaser banks and its effect on the enemy ship, then it would need to either vaporize the fabric of the universe or leave behind some glowing substance. Much easier to do that in post-production.
I watched a Science Fiction anime that had the best explanation for this. They edited in the sounds and weapons fire in post-production before release to the public of the anime's universe. Realistic space battles are extremely boring. No noticeable weapon fire from energy weapons with maybe the odd speck of light from the torpedoes activating their engines. The only thing noticeable is when the weapons actually hit the ship. In order for Phasers to be visible in space besides the glow of the phaser banks and its effect on the enemy ship, then it would need to either vaporize the fabric of the universe or leave behind some glowing substance. Much easier to do that in post-production.
Starship Operators?
There's another sci-fi-anime set in a near future, where they have to send people into orbit of Earth to get rid of space-junk. 'Planetes'. Whenever they show outer-space-scenes, there's no sound. So they kept it as realistic as an anime could possibly be.
I watched a Science Fiction anime that had the best explanation for this. They edited in the sounds and weapons fire in post-production before release to the public of the anime's universe. Realistic space battles are extremely boring. No noticeable weapon fire from energy weapons with maybe the odd speck of light from the torpedoes activating their engines. The only thing noticeable is when the weapons actually hit the ship. In order for Phasers to be visible in space besides the glow of the phaser banks and its effect on the enemy ship, then it would need to either vaporize the fabric of the universe or leave behind some glowing substance. Much easier to do that in post-production.
Starship Operators?
There's another sci-fi-anime set in a near future, where they have to send people into orbit of Earth to get rid of space-junk. 'Planetes'. Whenever they show outer-space-scenes, there's no sound. So they kept it as realistic as an anime could possibly be.
Could be. It has been years since I have seen it and only the first episode. Also, Planetes is awesome for being a realistic science fiction anime. I could actually see Planetes happen 30 years from now unlike most other science fiction anime.
Guys, seriously, shenanigans have been officially called. We now have to follow the procedures for such an event. Time to get out the Forums Manuals and refer to the appendix on Shenanigans!
Why the hell is there this inexplicable obsession with using a 200-year-old design as an endgame ship? What next, call on the US Navy to pull Old Ironsides back into the active fleet and equip her with a railgun and a helipad?
What makes it worse is that many of the people I've seen calling for the T6 Connie are also among those who decry TOS, both this expansion and the show itself, and say they just can't watch it. So it's not sentiment for childhood driving you...
When did I ever say I believe there is sound in space?
I never said that. I was simply calling into question your assessment of the Nebula in Wrath of Khan. Because you want that visual to adhere to scientific fact. But that scene is filled with sound effects in space. So you are being inconsistent with your adherence to scientific fact. I'm calling into question your desire to have your science fiction be as scientifically accurate as you claimed you needed it to be when we began this little adventure to dissect Wrath of Khan.
Which is more unbelievable? Sound in space? Or a thick Nebula that messes with sensors?
I'm curious to know more of your thoughts on the matter.
As for this "shenanigans" drivel, that was old when my grandfather was in diapers.
It's a reference from the film Office Space, which came out in 1999. How old is your grandfather?
Either way, Agent Daniels needs to be alerted. This could be another Na'Khul plot!
Actually, I'd prefer if Daniels would be erased from the timeline (as well as the entire thing called 'Star Trek Enterprise', and if possible, Voyager too...).
You might wanna alert him after we have constructed the most painful deathtrap ever? I'll even do the baiting!
Either way, Agent Daniels needs to be alerted. This could be another Na'Khul plot!
Actually, I'd prefer if Daniels would be erased from the timeline (as well as the entire thing called 'Star Trek Enterprise', and if possible, Voyager too...).
You might wanna alert him after we have constructed the most painful deathtrap ever? I'll even do the baiting!
Actually, it is very easy. All you have to do is think that everything after DS9 except for First Contact happened in an alternate reality. Voyager, Enterprise, Insurrection, and Nemesis are all trapped in their own dimension with no way of getting out and not relevant to the Star Trek you love.
Either way, Agent Daniels needs to be alerted. This could be another Na'Khul plot!
Actually, I'd prefer if Daniels would be erased from the timeline (as well as the entire thing called 'Star Trek Enterprise', and if possible, Voyager too...).
You might wanna alert him after we have constructed the most painful deathtrap ever? I'll even do the baiting!
Actually, it is very easy. All you have to do is think that everything after DS9 except for First Contact happened in an alternate reality. Voyager, Enterprise, Insurrection, and Nemesis are all trapped in their own dimension with no way of getting out and not relevant to the Star Trek you love.
Interesting you didn't mention Generations (the worst ST-movie ever made) and First Contact (that completely ignores how characters, especially Picard, have acted during TNG - that hate towards the Borg was something Picard had already overcome in certain episodes)...
Also, pretending it's not there would ruin the fun of killing Daniels o.o
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Either way, Agent Daniels needs to be alerted. This could be another Na'Khul plot!
Actually, I'd prefer if Daniels would be erased from the timeline (as well as the entire thing called 'Star Trek Enterprise', and if possible, Voyager too...).
You might wanna alert him after we have constructed the most painful deathtrap ever? I'll even do the baiting!
Actually, it is very easy. All you have to do is think that everything after DS9 except for First Contact happened in an alternate reality. Voyager, Enterprise, Insurrection, and Nemesis are all trapped in their own dimension with no way of getting out and not relevant to the Star Trek you love.
Interesting you didn't mention Generations (the worst ST-movie ever made) and First Contact (that completely ignores how characters, especially Picard, have acted during TNG - that hate towards the Borg was something Picard had already overcome in certain episodes)...
Also, pretending it's not there would ruin the fun of killing Daniels o.o
Didn't know your stance about Generations and First Contact since First Contact is considered as one of the more popular Star Trek movies. It is certainly the best TNG movie. Although when you are comparing it to Generations, Insurrection, and Nemesis, it is not that hard.
So you could put Generations and First Contact in that dimension and restore the episodes involving Daniel to have the fun of killing him off. Might be able to make a Foundry episode that just involves killing him off in numerous ways. Not sure if the Temporal Jumpsuit is available in the Foundry for use.
*Rollseyes* Did you even bother to read anything I wrote?
I thought I did. What is it I seem to be missing?
Established facets of the genre/franchise such as warp drive or sound effects in space are not the issue for me. Stupid garbage like the nebula bit
Sensor blindness in a Nebula is an established facet of the franchise. It happens in pretty much every Trek series that's ever aired.
I'm really confused because first it was scientific inaccuracy. Now it's that only some established facets of the franchise bug you but others don't.
How do you feel about time travel episodes? Like, what if they were the entire theme of an expansion for a video game?
But how can we sure that sensor blindness in a Nebula is a scientific inaccuracy? We can't actually go to a Nebula and test how our sensors would work when being exposed to the various gases that exist within a Nebula. Even if ours work, then there is no guarantee that the next version of sensors won't have some problem with a particular Nebula. Sensor blindness in a nebula seems like it is one of the more credible ideas in Star Trek. Certainly more credible than transporters and warp drive.
But how can we sure that sensor blindness in a Nebula is a scientific inaccuracy?
Oh we don't know for sure. I was just giving the poster the benefit of the doubt in that instance. And accepting their statement as scientifically accurate (even though there's already been other posts pointing out that one observed nebula may indeed be scientifically accurate as being thick and coal-like and dense and possibly could obscure data collection).
from what ive gathered from people that played it in tribble it really isnt a big deal,do some missions until level 10 then you get thrown out in the world doing the same content as anyone else.
i sure hope they are holding something back because if thats it well im not going to bother to level another character...
they did the same thing with "Legacy of Romulus" you only got access to the First section of missions dont want to spoil the storyline before its released.
from what ive gathered from people that played it in tribble it really isnt a big deal,do some missions until level 10 then you get thrown out in the world doing the same content as anyone else.
i sure hope they are holding something back because if thats it well im not going to bother to level another character...
they did the same thing with "Legacy of Romulus" you only got access to the First section of missions dont want to spoil the storyline before its released.
Yeahh, but my butthurt there is that with LOR, everyone that bought the pack got access to those firsst few sections.. Not any more though.. Its just give us your money and go away..
Comments
1.The Wrath of Khan
2. First Contact
3. The Undiscovered Country
4. The Voyage Home
5. Final Frontier
6. The Search for Spock
7. Nemesis
8. Generations
9. Insurrection
10. The Motion Picture.
So it as been stated, so mote it be.
Personally I think the JJ films are ok, they should have made them set in a completely new Sci-fi creation, just "re-imagining" other peoples creations and ideas is creative bankruptcy, clearly the studio thought haveing a ready made fan base would help with the film's success.
The large part of those, who now request this expansion, will be disgruntled with it - because they don't take into the account that the option of fitting in Cardassian storyline are very limited.
Basically, Cardassian faction at the moment means:
1) Federation-only allegiance - as Cardassian Union is a Federation protectorate in all but name. (It is actually fairly logical considering the aftermath of Dominion War).
2) No canon Cardassian ships at end-game. That ship has sailed with Cardassian lockbox. And putting now a T6 Galor in a C-Store means giving a middle finger to all the T5U lockbox Galor owners. So the canon ships only as T1-T4 with inferior stats, at best.
And Fed ships for end-game as a result of Federation allegiance.
As the current story is concerned the non-go options are:
1) True Way allegiance. Because;
a) there is no place for a "villain" faction. (And it presents numerous technical difficulties like the necessity for a full set of separate social zones as they won't be able to use the existing ones due to obvious reasons).
b) The True Way is actually almost non-existent as a result of "Cardassian Struggle". Most of their leadership and military force are destroyed, their alliance with alpha Jem'Hadar and New Link has ended.
2) Klingon allegiance. It is problematic to join KDF when your state is a Federation protectorate.
So in the end many of those who are now pushing for Cardassian expansion, when it will hypothetically go live, are going to tell that it sucks and abandon this content due to features that are predictable from the start.
And Cardassian per se are even less popular than Romulans. So it's quite possible that Cardassian expansion will be a failure - it poses great risk.
You know... you can have a "cardassian mini-faction" if you want.
Create a KDF or Federation Alien with the cardassian look (the editor features every detail you need). Write a biography that kinda goes the Garak-way of lying and pretending, or go the D'Tan-way of seeking allies in a dark hour while secretly seeking to lead Cardassia to new glory. Get a Galor at VA/BG-rank and you're set!
C'mon... Cardassia was bombed by the Dominion last stand in the Alpha-Quadrant. All that a caring cardassian could do now is becoming part of a MAJOR faction to make sure Cardassia becomes part or ally of it so Cardassia can rebuild in secret!
That would be a *true* cardassian mini-faction. Could even have a cardassian-exclusive fleet.
You believe that there's sound effects in space, phasers making pew pew noises and torpedoes exploding with tons of sound and explosions ... but the nebula holds you back?
I call shenanigans!
From that point on, my favorite one is whichever one I'm re-watching at the moment.
(HINT: I like um all)
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
And I suppose you know everything that will (apparently not) come, but hasn't yet been added? Do share with us your time travel device..if you would rather not, I suggest that you keep the relevant spoilers to yourself - not everybody wants to have the start of it spoiled, even if it "only" looks like 6 missions and a Delta Recruitment rehash.
I watched a Science Fiction anime that had the best explanation for this. They edited in the sounds and weapons fire in post-production before release to the public of the anime's universe. Realistic space battles are extremely boring. No noticeable weapon fire from energy weapons with maybe the odd speck of light from the torpedoes activating their engines. The only thing noticeable is when the weapons actually hit the ship. In order for Phasers to be visible in space besides the glow of the phaser banks and its effect on the enemy ship, then it would need to either vaporize the fabric of the universe or leave behind some glowing substance. Much easier to do that in post-production.
Starship Operators?
There's another sci-fi-anime set in a near future, where they have to send people into orbit of Earth to get rid of space-junk. 'Planetes'. Whenever they show outer-space-scenes, there's no sound. So they kept it as realistic as an anime could possibly be.
Could be. It has been years since I have seen it and only the first episode. Also, Planetes is awesome for being a realistic science fiction anime. I could actually see Planetes happen 30 years from now unlike most other science fiction anime.
What makes it worse is that many of the people I've seen calling for the T6 Connie are also among those who decry TOS, both this expansion and the show itself, and say they just can't watch it. So it's not sentiment for childhood driving you...
I never said that. I was simply calling into question your assessment of the Nebula in Wrath of Khan. Because you want that visual to adhere to scientific fact. But that scene is filled with sound effects in space. So you are being inconsistent with your adherence to scientific fact. I'm calling into question your desire to have your science fiction be as scientifically accurate as you claimed you needed it to be when we began this little adventure to dissect Wrath of Khan.
Which is more unbelievable? Sound in space? Or a thick Nebula that messes with sensors?
I'm curious to know more of your thoughts on the matter.
It's a reference from the film Office Space, which came out in 1999. How old is your grandfather?
Noooo, thats Steins Gate.. this is different..
Actually, I'd prefer if Daniels would be erased from the timeline (as well as the entire thing called 'Star Trek Enterprise', and if possible, Voyager too...).
You might wanna alert him after we have constructed the most painful deathtrap ever? I'll even do the baiting!
Actually, it is very easy. All you have to do is think that everything after DS9 except for First Contact happened in an alternate reality. Voyager, Enterprise, Insurrection, and Nemesis are all trapped in their own dimension with no way of getting out and not relevant to the Star Trek you love.
Interesting you didn't mention Generations (the worst ST-movie ever made) and First Contact (that completely ignores how characters, especially Picard, have acted during TNG - that hate towards the Borg was something Picard had already overcome in certain episodes)...
Also, pretending it's not there would ruin the fun of killing Daniels o.o
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Didn't know your stance about Generations and First Contact since First Contact is considered as one of the more popular Star Trek movies. It is certainly the best TNG movie. Although when you are comparing it to Generations, Insurrection, and Nemesis, it is not that hard.
So you could put Generations and First Contact in that dimension and restore the episodes involving Daniel to have the fun of killing him off. Might be able to make a Foundry episode that just involves killing him off in numerous ways. Not sure if the Temporal Jumpsuit is available in the Foundry for use.
I thought I did. What is it I seem to be missing?
Sensor blindness in a Nebula is an established facet of the franchise. It happens in pretty much every Trek series that's ever aired.
I'm really confused because first it was scientific inaccuracy. Now it's that only some established facets of the franchise bug you but others don't.
How do you feel about time travel episodes? Like, what if they were the entire theme of an expansion for a video game?
But how can we sure that sensor blindness in a Nebula is a scientific inaccuracy? We can't actually go to a Nebula and test how our sensors would work when being exposed to the various gases that exist within a Nebula. Even if ours work, then there is no guarantee that the next version of sensors won't have some problem with a particular Nebula. Sensor blindness in a nebula seems like it is one of the more credible ideas in Star Trek. Certainly more credible than transporters and warp drive.
Oh we don't know for sure. I was just giving the poster the benefit of the doubt in that instance. And accepting their statement as scientifically accurate (even though there's already been other posts pointing out that one observed nebula may indeed be scientifically accurate as being thick and coal-like and dense and possibly could obscure data collection).
they did the same thing with "Legacy of Romulus" you only got access to the First section of missions dont want to spoil the storyline before its released.
Yeahh, but my butthurt there is that with LOR, everyone that bought the pack got access to those firsst few sections.. Not any more though.. Its just give us your money and go away..