On average, we spend more than feddybear players, both buying ships and buying other things like dil or customizations.
Unless you can show me the T-test that's not something to take at face value.
(In a thread where the issue of stats has been raised, it's best not to find creative uses for words like "average.")
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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Why do some of us insist that Klingons and Romulans are still evil? Klingons are allies once again (perhaps not on paper, but more importantly in action). The Romulan faction playable in the game is of the type that are not opposed to cooperating with the other two, and hates the Tal Shiar even more than they dislike the Feds and Klinks. Even in the (TNG and onward) series, Klingons were cast more often as the ally than the villain. They are not as perfect as the Feds are (actually I refuse to believe the Feds are all that perfect, but that's another thread), But evil? Is TOS era antagonism THE defining relationship between Feds and Klingons? Why are we joining forces then??? Why is there so much the same dialog after "The Vault" even to go to DS9 and run errands for Com. Sarish Mina? Would a bunch of ridge-headed demons even think to do something of the sort? Or just continue attacking Federation space for all time? With all the complaining about Klingons being too lovey-dovey with the Feds in other threads, why do we yet have to put up with this too?
Ah I remember this poll, i vote for romulan but like all things, Perpetual Entertainment never show any concept art of any Rom or KDF ships. it was all Fed stuff that they showed. Anyway this doesn't excuss cryptic from how unfair they have been with the other two factions (KDF and Rom). Yes you going to get alot of people playing fed but some of us like to experices the story been told from different angle. so many things where said then Star Trek Online Producer Craig Zinkievich which included exploration which never made into the the game like they way cryptic wanted it to be.
"You ask why we give our ships computer normal emotions. Do you really want a warship incapable of loyalty?"
Ah I remember this poll, i vote for romulan but like all things, Perpetual Entertainment never show any concept art of any Rom or KDF ships. it was all Fed stuff that they showed. Anyway this doesn't excuss cryptic from how unfair they have been with the other two factions (KDF and Rom). Yes you going to get alot of people playing fed but some of us like to experices the story been told from different angle. so many things where said then Star Trek Online Producer Craig Zinkievich which included exploration which never made into the the game like they way cryptic wanted it to be.
You know what excuses Cryptic for 6 years of imbalance?
Us.
We play this game in this state and give them carte blanche to do this.
Ah I remember this poll, i vote for romulan but like all things, Perpetual Entertainment never show any concept art of any Rom or KDF ships. it was all Fed stuff that they showed. Anyway this doesn't excuss cryptic from how unfair they have been with the other two factions (KDF and Rom). Yes you going to get alot of people playing fed but some of us like to experices the story been told from different angle. so many things where said then Star Trek Online Producer Craig Zinkievich which included exploration which never made into the the game like they way cryptic wanted it to be.
You know what excuses Cryptic for 6 years of imbalance?
Us.
We play this game in this state and give them carte blanche to do this.
Many people complain quite a bit, but people label them doomsayers or tell them to go play another game.
Ah I remember this poll, i vote for romulan but like all things, Perpetual Entertainment never show any concept art of any Rom or KDF ships. it was all Fed stuff that they showed. Anyway this doesn't excuss cryptic from how unfair they have been with the other two factions (KDF and Rom). Yes you going to get alot of people playing fed but some of us like to experices the story been told from different angle. so many things where said then Star Trek Online Producer Craig Zinkievich which included exploration which never made into the the game like they way cryptic wanted it to be.
You know what excuses Cryptic for 6 years of imbalance?
Us.
We play this game in this state and give them carte blanche to do this.
Many people complain quite a bit, but people label them doomsayers or tell them to go play another game.
Yeah, that's certainly an aspect of all of this interaction. I guess my point is more that people keep jumping around this topic in such a way that Cryptic is wrong, Cryptic is to blame, it's all their fault, etc, etc, etc. And the original post here is linked to polls and data and all that.
But at the end of the day this game is 6 years old. And still alive and kicking. So if this was the "wrong" path for the game to take, the game would have suffered more for it. We're the players. Us. This is really our responsibility just as much as the developers. We are complicit in the imbalance.
And as far as fixing that imbalance? I feel we've long since passed that event horizon. The light of hope will not escape.
I say let's enjoy the singularity while we're here! There is Klingon and Romulan stuff to do. Let's go do it!
Despite previous disagreements I have to say this was an awesome post.
I'm a very silly person @azrael605 I sometimes offend people unintentionally with my 'humor' but rest assured its nothing personal (even if it seems like it). My idea of 'funny' and other peoples can sometimes be very different
And as far as fixing that imbalance? I feel we've long since passed that event horizon. The light of hope will not escape.
I say let's enjoy the singularity while we're here! There is Klingon and Romulan stuff to do. Let's go do it!
Well, the interesting question there is the "what". "What would it take to make KDF and Fed equal?"
For a start: Character races, Feds have twice as many as the KDF. But what would it take to balance that? The devs would need to find or create 9 more races. Doable, but far from easy or quick, especially if they stick to canon races.
And as far as fixing that imbalance? I feel we've long since passed that event horizon. The light of hope will not escape.
I say let's enjoy the singularity while we're here! There is Klingon and Romulan stuff to do. Let's go do it!
Well, the interesting question there is the "what". "What would it take to make KDF and Fed equal?"
For a start: Character races, Feds have twice as many as the KDF. But what would it take to balance that? The devs would need to find or create 9 more races. Doable, but far from easy or quick, especially if they stick to canon races.
Also....
Is that still the KDF; if you have dozens of species? We never saw any slave/servitor/member races in the KDF over the entire canon series. You need to delve into canon-conflicting novels (Reflections from John M. Ford for example) to find something like that. And if you do all that - make sure you add Humans. If a faction can't have humans, it will probably be disadvantaged.
But if species count is relevant - does that apply to ships? Doesn't the KDF have the leg up here, with a few non-Klingon ships available? THe Federation has just the D'Kyr and the Andorian ships, the KDF has Orion, Gorn, Nausicaan and Fek'ihri ships.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
There are many reasons why the other factions arn't as popular but, it really comes down to one. One that many many MMOs suffer from, it's that MMO players want to play humans because they are the most familiar, as odd as it sounds most players in nearly all MMOs play humans the most, followed by elves because they are basically pointy eared humans. Also New factions etc always end up with less players in them, it doesn't help that Klingon were a form a of unlocked faction at the start of the game. So when social groups form, those players are more likely to stay with those groups. But might migrate temporarily for the new faction. But once the newness fades they end up back at the one they started with.
Which only perpetuates population problems because you are most likely going to stick with the faction with the most people in it, because MMO after all are relatively social experiences even if it is just the want to be around more people, that you don't even talk to.
Lets not try that BS and speak the truth? Completely forgetting the fact that you can easily make a human in the alien gen, from day one Feds were given the devotion of the game and every other faction since has been screwed up and down.
Feds are the only faction that gets anything exclusive anymore and it has been that way since before DR...
Feds have the most of everything pretty much...including perks, ships, and various other things that used to be exclusive to the other factions.
Feds are even getting a bloody second faction...how much more evidence needs to be posted that the deck has been stacked in the Feds favor since day one?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
And as far as fixing that imbalance? I feel we've long since passed that event horizon. The light of hope will not escape.
I say let's enjoy the singularity while we're here! There is Klingon and Romulan stuff to do. Let's go do it!
Well, the interesting question there is the "what". "What would it take to make KDF and Fed equal?"
For a start: Character races, Feds have twice as many as the KDF. But what would it take to balance that? The devs would need to find or create 9 more races. Doable, but far from easy or quick, especially if they stick to canon races.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the fact that the KDF has races OTHER than klingon is part of the reason I personally do NOT play my klingon character very often. It breaks immersion way too much when an Orion or a Gorn starts talking about honor in a way that only a klingon should.
Someone mentioned SWG earlier, yes that game failed but there's one thing they did right that I think would have been perfect for STO had it been implemented in the beginning: it's approach to factions. For those who don't know, in SWG you started out without a faction, but if you gained enough reputation you could eventually join the rebellion or empire, and you could even switch at any time (provided you grinded enough rep), or you could even stay neutral. If STO had launched with the Orion, Gorn, Naussicans, Cardassians, and a few Fed races similarly factionless, with the ability to ally with (not join) the faction of their choice (while using their own racial ships at all levels), or stay neutral and experience some neutral exclusive content, maybe things would be different at least for those like me who see the state of the KDF now and want to abandon ship right away.
As far as immersion goes, there are few, if any, things in this game that bother me more than seeing non-klingons serving in the KDF.
how much more evidence needs to be posted that the deck has been stacked in the Feds favor since day one?
But that's only one step down the path.
Let's walk further down that path.
The evidence is there. It's good evidence. I certainly agree with you.
Now what?
Does Cryptic fix the imbalance? They say they like Klingons, but don't have the ability to deliver time/resources to fix the imbalance. They've stuck to that story and their actions certainly underscore their stance.
So what's the response to that? Cryptic is wrong and it's their fault? Ok.
But are they wrong? From their point of view, they have 6 years of data showing them what people buy and spend money on. You and me might disagree with what they're saying, but our buying habits are just a tiny piece of their pie. (Even if we're both "whales" we're still a tiny piece of the pie. And if we ARE whales, well there's the other part of that which muddies the stats since whales are likely buying stuff for all three factions right now as they've got and support alts).
So what's next? Well there's the criticism that this is circular logic. That Cryptic's saying their stats are X, and so their plan is Y because our suggestion of Z won't sell, but that it's all one self-fulfilling cycle because they never do Z.
That's where a ton of angst is for you (the collective). I used to have that angst too. I let it go. I'm not suggesting you let it go. But I am suggesting everyone caught in that cycle try to take and breath and realize there's no way out of that circle.
So what is the next step?
I don't know. But I will say this:
1- Game's been around for 6 years. So it does work. And it is surviving.
2- We've funded it for those 6 years. So what has happened we've pushed to make happen. We are complicit in the state of the game.
3- Whether Cryptic could sell more Bortas ships by designing them better or not, we all know in our heart of hearts that a Federation ship, be it something from the FCT or something that people are datamining right now, will vastly outsell pretty much the entire lineup of the KDF. As much as you may love, love, LOVE you some K'Tingas and B'rels ... a T6 Shipwhoshallnotbenamed ... will demonstrate and prove to Cryptic what they've been saying all along: Their idea is working.
Now there's been some great points made about how the unique factors in the Klingon faction have been eroded. Carriers are an amazing example! T6 carrier is what?
But that line's been crossed. There's no getting that back. The Federation has almost all of what the KDF used to have. From the leech to the carrier to a cloak to a raider. Everything.
There's no way to get it back. And the game is plugging along making money using Cryptic's model. I don't see them changing course.
I'm trying to focus on what is there. To enjoy that as much as I can. And there's a ton of great ideas that I will absolutely support (like a T6 Vo'Quv, cause why not!) ...
But the imbalance? It's here. And it's not going anywhere. That sucks. I'm sorry it's here. There's enough Star Trek in this Star Trek game for me to make do. 6 years of blaming Cryptic for doing me wrong, hasn't gotten me anything. I salute all those that keep trying and keep walking that path,
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Comments
Unless you can show me the T-test that's not something to take at face value.
(In a thread where the issue of stats has been raised, it's best not to find creative uses for words like "average.")
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
At least in UO you could have a semi serious accusation (trammel vs Felluca, PK vs PVER)....
But in this game, which has completely no death penalty and no open pvp (to speak of)...
Calling somone is 'fedibear' is pretty lame.
You know what excuses Cryptic for 6 years of imbalance?
Us.
We play this game in this state and give them carte blanche to do this.
Many people complain quite a bit, but people label them doomsayers or tell them to go play another game.
Yeah, that's certainly an aspect of all of this interaction. I guess my point is more that people keep jumping around this topic in such a way that Cryptic is wrong, Cryptic is to blame, it's all their fault, etc, etc, etc. And the original post here is linked to polls and data and all that.
But at the end of the day this game is 6 years old. And still alive and kicking. So if this was the "wrong" path for the game to take, the game would have suffered more for it. We're the players. Us. This is really our responsibility just as much as the developers. We are complicit in the imbalance.
And as far as fixing that imbalance? I feel we've long since passed that event horizon. The light of hope will not escape.
I say let's enjoy the singularity while we're here! There is Klingon and Romulan stuff to do. Let's go do it!
I'm a very silly person @azrael605 I sometimes offend people unintentionally with my 'humor' but rest assured its nothing personal (even if it seems like it). My idea of 'funny' and other peoples can sometimes be very different
For a start:
Character races, Feds have twice as many as the KDF. But what would it take to balance that? The devs would need to find or create 9 more races. Doable, but far from easy or quick, especially if they stick to canon races.
My character Tsin'xing
Is that still the KDF; if you have dozens of species? We never saw any slave/servitor/member races in the KDF over the entire canon series. You need to delve into canon-conflicting novels (Reflections from John M. Ford for example) to find something like that. And if you do all that - make sure you add Humans. If a faction can't have humans, it will probably be disadvantaged.
But if species count is relevant - does that apply to ships? Doesn't the KDF have the leg up here, with a few non-Klingon ships available? THe Federation has just the D'Kyr and the Andorian ships, the KDF has Orion, Gorn, Nausicaan and Fek'ihri ships.
Lets not try that BS and speak the truth? Completely forgetting the fact that you can easily make a human in the alien gen, from day one Feds were given the devotion of the game and every other faction since has been screwed up and down.
Feds are the only faction that gets anything exclusive anymore and it has been that way since before DR...
Feds have the most of everything pretty much...including perks, ships, and various other things that used to be exclusive to the other factions.
Feds are even getting a bloody second faction...how much more evidence needs to be posted that the deck has been stacked in the Feds favor since day one?
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the fact that the KDF has races OTHER than klingon is part of the reason I personally do NOT play my klingon character very often. It breaks immersion way too much when an Orion or a Gorn starts talking about honor in a way that only a klingon should.
Someone mentioned SWG earlier, yes that game failed but there's one thing they did right that I think would have been perfect for STO had it been implemented in the beginning: it's approach to factions. For those who don't know, in SWG you started out without a faction, but if you gained enough reputation you could eventually join the rebellion or empire, and you could even switch at any time (provided you grinded enough rep), or you could even stay neutral. If STO had launched with the Orion, Gorn, Naussicans, Cardassians, and a few Fed races similarly factionless, with the ability to ally with (not join) the faction of their choice (while using their own racial ships at all levels), or stay neutral and experience some neutral exclusive content, maybe things would be different at least for those like me who see the state of the KDF now and want to abandon ship right away.
As far as immersion goes, there are few, if any, things in this game that bother me more than seeing non-klingons serving in the KDF.
But that's only one step down the path.
Let's walk further down that path.
The evidence is there. It's good evidence. I certainly agree with you.
Now what?
Does Cryptic fix the imbalance? They say they like Klingons, but don't have the ability to deliver time/resources to fix the imbalance. They've stuck to that story and their actions certainly underscore their stance.
So what's the response to that? Cryptic is wrong and it's their fault? Ok.
But are they wrong? From their point of view, they have 6 years of data showing them what people buy and spend money on. You and me might disagree with what they're saying, but our buying habits are just a tiny piece of their pie. (Even if we're both "whales" we're still a tiny piece of the pie. And if we ARE whales, well there's the other part of that which muddies the stats since whales are likely buying stuff for all three factions right now as they've got and support alts).
So what's next? Well there's the criticism that this is circular logic. That Cryptic's saying their stats are X, and so their plan is Y because our suggestion of Z won't sell, but that it's all one self-fulfilling cycle because they never do Z.
That's where a ton of angst is for you (the collective). I used to have that angst too. I let it go. I'm not suggesting you let it go. But I am suggesting everyone caught in that cycle try to take and breath and realize there's no way out of that circle.
So what is the next step?
I don't know. But I will say this:
1- Game's been around for 6 years. So it does work. And it is surviving.
2- We've funded it for those 6 years. So what has happened we've pushed to make happen. We are complicit in the state of the game.
3- Whether Cryptic could sell more Bortas ships by designing them better or not, we all know in our heart of hearts that a Federation ship, be it something from the FCT or something that people are datamining right now, will vastly outsell pretty much the entire lineup of the KDF. As much as you may love, love, LOVE you some K'Tingas and B'rels ... a T6 Shipwhoshallnotbenamed ... will demonstrate and prove to Cryptic what they've been saying all along: Their idea is working.
Now there's been some great points made about how the unique factors in the Klingon faction have been eroded. Carriers are an amazing example! T6 carrier is what?
But that line's been crossed. There's no getting that back. The Federation has almost all of what the KDF used to have. From the leech to the carrier to a cloak to a raider. Everything.
There's no way to get it back. And the game is plugging along making money using Cryptic's model. I don't see them changing course.
I'm trying to focus on what is there. To enjoy that as much as I can. And there's a ton of great ideas that I will absolutely support (like a T6 Vo'Quv, cause why not!) ...
But the imbalance? It's here. And it's not going anywhere. That sucks. I'm sorry it's here. There's enough Star Trek in this Star Trek game for me to make do. 6 years of blaming Cryptic for doing me wrong, hasn't gotten me anything. I salute all those that keep trying and keep walking that path,
we need the anti-zombie device please
Send the Necromancy back to Neverwinter where it belongs!