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Why was First Contact so much better than the JJ remakes? (If they where)
equinox976
Member Posts: 2,305 Arc User
in Ten Forward
I'm just re watching First Contact, and I have to say even after multiple viewings, it's still better than anything JJ has put forth.
Yes, I know there was some TRIBBLE ones (Alot of people hate Insurrection, but I like it). But focusing on First Contact, it just has that 'quality' about it that makes you want to keep watching.
Compare Gates McFadden to the 'obligatory semi naked chick' in into the Darkness, and she still far outshines her in beauty and acting ability.
Looking back to other films (TOS era) we have a connection with all of those actors (even those who had not been born, we watched the 3 seasons of TOS).
Some people say the JJ films are 'not Trek'. I would not say that is the case. Rather they are being judged upon 50+ years of series' in which we have 'watched' characters develop, before they entered the arena of films.
I feel all the actors for JJ 'verse' where perfectly cast (especially Spock) but it still never 'felt' like Star Trek.
When they remade Battlestar Galactica and I heard Starbuck would be a woman, I swore I would not watch it (what a load of TRIBBLE I thought) but when I DID watch it, it was pretty much a perfect 're imagination' of that franchise.
I just never 'got' that with the 'JJ' verse. That is not to say he was wrong in what he did.
But where does this 'feeling' come from??
How do we 'know' what is the right thing for a franchise?
I even confuse myself, I have alot of Treky friends who just LOVE what JJ has done, but I simply cannot understand it myself.
So... a bit of meandering pointless diatribe from myself.
Opinions welcome (if you can be bothered
)
Yes, I know there was some TRIBBLE ones (Alot of people hate Insurrection, but I like it). But focusing on First Contact, it just has that 'quality' about it that makes you want to keep watching.
Compare Gates McFadden to the 'obligatory semi naked chick' in into the Darkness, and she still far outshines her in beauty and acting ability.
Looking back to other films (TOS era) we have a connection with all of those actors (even those who had not been born, we watched the 3 seasons of TOS).
Some people say the JJ films are 'not Trek'. I would not say that is the case. Rather they are being judged upon 50+ years of series' in which we have 'watched' characters develop, before they entered the arena of films.
I feel all the actors for JJ 'verse' where perfectly cast (especially Spock) but it still never 'felt' like Star Trek.
When they remade Battlestar Galactica and I heard Starbuck would be a woman, I swore I would not watch it (what a load of TRIBBLE I thought) but when I DID watch it, it was pretty much a perfect 're imagination' of that franchise.
I just never 'got' that with the 'JJ' verse. That is not to say he was wrong in what he did.
But where does this 'feeling' come from??
How do we 'know' what is the right thing for a franchise?
I even confuse myself, I have alot of Treky friends who just LOVE what JJ has done, but I simply cannot understand it myself.
So... a bit of meandering pointless diatribe from myself.
Opinions welcome (if you can be bothered
)0
Comments
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I seriously can never decide which I like better, FC or TWoK, they both brought back the most memorable villains from their associated tv shows, had great character development for the captains, and so many other things that most trek movies don't get right
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As for why it's better than the JJ films... Because it's not the JJ films
IMHO, I would say that being made by a team who had been 'doing Trek' everyday for over a decade, gave it a level of 'authenticity' and 'feel for the subject' which the JJ films could simply never attain. For them, it was 'just another day at the office', for JJ and his flying monkeys, it was simply a case of 'what project shall we work on this time?' and, if JJ is to be believed (
And while rattler says:
This is true, but the films themselves, are still relying on audience familiarity with the characters... They expect people to know the backstories enough to make up for their lack of character building, except for the instances where they specifically want to show a difference to explain the differences (and even then fail to actually do so plausibly, such as when Kirk boosts the car... There's not enough exploration of whoever is on the other end of the call... There's a stupidly dubbed moment which would have showed that the other kid walking was Jim's older brother... There's no explaination for Jim's connection to the car itself (or the existence of a canyon in Iowa))
In that regard, the JJ films quite simply fail as good storytelling.
Compared to First Contact, the JJ films simply don't cut it...
Of course, Insurrection was terrible, and Nemesis was slated, but we're only talking about First Contact...
In that regard I'm even madder at the TNG movies than I'm at JJ-Trek: The latter is more or less a name grab for the modern cinema audience feauturing juvenile humour and lackluster scripts and every bit of thought put into them was an afterthought as cinematic effect was the primary factor driving those movies. The TNG movies took the shows as a base to go from and twisted the characters into OOC behaviour, rehashed series scripts or did... whatever it was nemesis tried to be. Fan-fiction gone wrong or something.
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I don't try to compare any of the Trek's to each other, because that's just a quick slide down the rabbit-hole in which I end up not enjoying any of them.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
as for jjcraptrek, im not touching that even if you paid me every single dime out of very reserve in the world, no way.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
No headcanon about it daveyny. Alternate Reality pretty much = Different Universe. While the branching point was a lot closer than the Mirror Universe, it is still a branched off universe.
As for people bashing Insurrection, I actually enjoyed it because it wasn't as dark as First Contact, and had some humor as well. Not only that, it was more of a moral story and not shoot 'em up doomsday prevention story. Insurrection posed the question "Is it right?" The enemy wasn't quite as clear cut in Insurrection, as the Federation itself was involved in the Ba'ku planet. At what point does following orders become morally wrong?
First Contact was pretty straight forward. Stop the Borg and preserve the Timeline.
Insurrection was not that simple.
The less said about Nemesis... the better. Was just an upscaled, badly done rehash of TUC with the super cloaker (Chang's BoP in TUC, Scimitar in Nemesis) and diplomacy with a previously hostile power (Klingons in TUC, Romulans in Nemesis).
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That's a little unnecessary. Her name was Alice Eve, and even though I wasn't thrilled with "the underwear scene," she did a little bit more in the film than just being half-naked.
Not gonna stop people from only seeing that and not the fact she was playing Carol Marcus. I honestly thought that scene was a little funny because of the awkwardness with McCoy.
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I attribute the shift to Picard being a bit older and more experienced by Insurrection. In TNG, Picard was a bit more reserved and by the book. In Insurrection, Picard's been through the Dominion War, and even met James T. Kirk himself, and knows that you can't always go by the book.
And then there was the illegal Holoship to consider.
Also there was that metaphasic radiation that, as Data put it, was helping to foster more rebelious tendencies associated with youth.
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Yeah.. that's right.
And that's the whole point of the forum... (Discussion) is that ALL you have to add?
My point was that it was a little unnecessary to treat her like some nameless Skin-a-max model...
Her part was small, sure, and she could have been used more... but, let's not treat Gates McFadden like she was Meryl Streep. Crusher did little in First Contact... shoot, she didn't even stand up to Picard.
(And, yes, Eve is not in Beyond... she may return in the next one, but plans for her derailed when Orci was ousted, methinks.)
McFadden (Crusher) did more to advance the film in one single sentence than 'naked chick' did for the whole of into the darkness. McFadden conveyed her complete trust in Picard (despite knowing he was being illogical) in that sentence. She did not need much screen time because we knew all of the crew and knew how they thought.
As for naked chick? her contribution was standing semi naked for Kirk, and then screaming a bit when 'daddy' beamed her off the ship.
And here I thought you were wanting to have a rational conversation... my mistake.
And that scene you speak of? It shows Crusher's inability to grow a spine. Her face didn't reflect confidence... she knew Worf was right.
Not that it matters. Peace.
You did not disagree. You stated: "This is you opinion OP, not everyone shares it."
When it's pretty much stated in the original thread tittle, that I welcome all opinions:
"WHY WAS FIRST CONTACT SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE JJ REMAKES? (IF THEY WHERE")
I came across one of your own posts and replied to it. Take it as you will.
Thank's for the laugh. People getting all offended about a space opera
Tatty bye!
Like I said. Take it as you will
Necroing a thread the way you did is in rather poor taste. I'm gonna have to side with azrael on this one.
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Well if Azrael is 'really' offended, I'm quite happy to apologise to them. Anyhoo, time to have some fun for the weekend. Apologies to all who may have been offended.
*Prances off*
P.S: On Friday the 13th, and with a name like Azrael, you would think necroing, zombies and dead people would not cause too much bother
My character Tsin'xing