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Whats the Average DPS of the Player Community ?
taylor1701d
Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
I had noticed that only a few hundred people have surpassed the 75k mark on the DPS board(s).
Now there are users who don't parse, and their scores can't be counted, but this lead me to wonder about what the actual Average DPS of the community is.
People say power creep is getting crazy, and I don't disagree....
But with only a few hundred people surpassing the 75k mark (according to the boards - not withstanding those who don't care to parse) I wonder just how prolific this Power Creep actually is.
And just how much of an impact it is actually having throughout the community ?
I've heard complaints that ISA can be finished in under a min.
But is that the result of having 5 players with +50k DPS ?
Could a group of 10k'ers finish in the same time ?
How do PUG's fair in comparison ?
Myself, I don't think the average, casual player is surpassing 10k, I've seen many pug parses of ISA where most of the players can barely mange 2-5k DPS.
The other question is; What percentage of players can surpass 30k (a good water mark for completing all content offered)
I would wager its not more 25 - 30% of the total population.
So all these complaints about DPS going crazy is based on a minority of players in STO. Sometimes I feel that this small segment of the population is being used as a scapegoat for succeeding.
And are people judging the detrimental effect of Power Creep based on what these few elite players are capable of doing ?
Myself, I feel the power creep is helping anyone under the 30k DPS mark (the vast majority of STO users by my estimations) to become more competitive.
And in that I don't see a problem.
It wasn't so long ago we heard cries of ISA is too hard ! We're failing all the Optionals !
(Notice how we haven't heard from these people in a while).
So is Power Creep such a bad thing when the vast majority of less skilled/knowledgeable players are profiting greatly from improved DEEPS ?
I just want to know what other players see, and get their anecdotal feelings on where the community in general stands
Do you believe most players (a majority of at least 50%+1) are surpassing the 30k mark ?
Do you believe most players are hitting even 10k ?
What percentage of players do you believe are making a mockery of even the Elite content the game offers ?
And is the Power Creep we are experiencing such a bad thing if the vast majority (as I believe) are benefitting from it ?
Does it really make sense to punish the top end players (a vast minority - as I believe) that are soaring to new heights making a mockery of Elite content ?
Or is it a fair trade off for the community ?
Lower End Players benefit (enabling them to complete mission optionals more easily etc), while Top End guys soar to new heights ?
I actually think its a pretty fair trade off at the moment.
What do you think ?
Lots of Power Creep threads around, and I just wanted to take a deeper look at this "problem/benefit" to players.
And the more I'm thinking about it, the more I think these claims are unfounded.
But you're free to disagree, and I'd like to hear why.
Now there are users who don't parse, and their scores can't be counted, but this lead me to wonder about what the actual Average DPS of the community is.
People say power creep is getting crazy, and I don't disagree....
But with only a few hundred people surpassing the 75k mark (according to the boards - not withstanding those who don't care to parse) I wonder just how prolific this Power Creep actually is.
And just how much of an impact it is actually having throughout the community ?
I've heard complaints that ISA can be finished in under a min.
But is that the result of having 5 players with +50k DPS ?
Could a group of 10k'ers finish in the same time ?
How do PUG's fair in comparison ?
Myself, I don't think the average, casual player is surpassing 10k, I've seen many pug parses of ISA where most of the players can barely mange 2-5k DPS.
The other question is; What percentage of players can surpass 30k (a good water mark for completing all content offered)
I would wager its not more 25 - 30% of the total population.
So all these complaints about DPS going crazy is based on a minority of players in STO. Sometimes I feel that this small segment of the population is being used as a scapegoat for succeeding.
And are people judging the detrimental effect of Power Creep based on what these few elite players are capable of doing ?
Myself, I feel the power creep is helping anyone under the 30k DPS mark (the vast majority of STO users by my estimations) to become more competitive.
And in that I don't see a problem.
It wasn't so long ago we heard cries of ISA is too hard ! We're failing all the Optionals !
(Notice how we haven't heard from these people in a while).
So is Power Creep such a bad thing when the vast majority of less skilled/knowledgeable players are profiting greatly from improved DEEPS ?
I just want to know what other players see, and get their anecdotal feelings on where the community in general stands
Do you believe most players (a majority of at least 50%+1) are surpassing the 30k mark ?
Do you believe most players are hitting even 10k ?
What percentage of players do you believe are making a mockery of even the Elite content the game offers ?
And is the Power Creep we are experiencing such a bad thing if the vast majority (as I believe) are benefitting from it ?
Does it really make sense to punish the top end players (a vast minority - as I believe) that are soaring to new heights making a mockery of Elite content ?
Or is it a fair trade off for the community ?
Lower End Players benefit (enabling them to complete mission optionals more easily etc), while Top End guys soar to new heights ?
I actually think its a pretty fair trade off at the moment.
What do you think ?
Lots of Power Creep threads around, and I just wanted to take a deeper look at this "problem/benefit" to players.
And the more I'm thinking about it, the more I think these claims are unfounded.
But you're free to disagree, and I'd like to hear why.
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The 'average' player doesn't know a lot about DPS, they throw together what sounds good to them and go along on their way. I still regularly see very low DPS players in PUGs. People like to use the high end of the spectrum and try and pass it off as the baseline average so they have an excuse to whine and cry for nerfs, but honestly.. those people are clueless.
The average player does no where near what you see from DPS league veterans, look how many people struggle just to complete some of the Delta and Na'Kuhl story missions. Despite what anyone thinks, high DPS'ers do not make up the majority.. not even close.
The more I think about this the more I think its helping the casual, and I don't think its a bad thing necessarily.
But, from what I've seen, average is still 7-15k...which is about what I was finding just after DR. There are still many many people struggling to hit the 5k mark. I would guess about 10-15% of people are past the 30k DPS level.
I've been consistently parsing out my damage for the past three months. As I work on my build. And I've seen a breakdown that fits this mold, especially in ISA:
1 player 50k or above.
2 to 3 players at 16 to 25k
1 player less than 5k
Since 11.5 I've seen that go to
1 player at a really high level. I see a lot more 75 to 100k parses.
2 to 3 players at 20 to 30k
1 player at 5 to 7k
There's been a jump in overall power output.
Which I'm fine with.
My alts who are undergeared still, fluctuate between 7k and 20k depending on the toon and the build.
The biggest jump in DPS I saw was taking my weapons up to Mk XIV.
So I think the parses really depend on the gear as much as the build choices. It's hard for me to say someone flying a T5 Galaxy with Green Mk XII phasers is going to do 2k or 15k.
Both are possible.
And I'd also like to point out, especially in terms of this thread ... I run a ton of other maps. And for my own research I've been parsing them. And there's some pretty significant differences in how my build parses in, say, Gateway to Grethor Advanced, or Counterpoint Advanced, than in ISA. The time gating and the fact that survivability is a bigger factor, changes the results. For everyone.
It's why this is really tricky. Because basing adjustments to skills and powers and DPS itself on results from ISA and CCA is kind of tunnel vision as a lot of the other maps work differently and thus parse differently.
My best example is in the olden days of "Vanilla" World of Warcraft, I'd parse differently against Onyxia than I would against Ragnaros. So these differences in design and intent need to be kept in mind.
It's why I really don't put a lot of weight behind the core of the "nerf FAW" movement, because ISA is 5 years old. It hasn't changed much at all. It's great for parses, but the designers have moved well past it in terms of what content does that they now design. For me it's a good testing ground, but it's not a relevant reflection of where the end-game is supposed to be going. And it's why Hive Space Elite is for more interesting to me, and why I wish they'd bring back No Win Scenario, and why I mostly just want to see more, and newer progression.
I'm an old hat with MMOs. I really never had a problem in Everquest when my Planes of Power geared character could solo Kunark content. The game evolved.
So Omega rep being dated and easy? It's the lifecycle I'm used to. What I'm used to is the new stuff would be much more challenging. And what you get out of the new stuff would be good enough to make the old stuff a cakewalk. That's mudflation. That's powercreep. STO just needs to push the new content further is all.
My feeling of the whole DPS number game is though that an awful lot of players will run something like ISA again and again until they get a big number and then go round telling everyone they've got a build that does X DPS. But in reality what they have is a build that does maybe half that number on the majority of runs and can maybe match the big number in very specific circumstances. ISA is so condensed and intensive that getting a big number in a single run doesn't mean anything in the long run. You won't get the same in KSA, or G2GA so your fancy number you wave round only applies to very specific circumstances.
That's why I'm convinced that most people's average and the whole player base as one is a lot lot lower than people say they are able to achieve.
Iv had a few silly 35-45k runs with people using that new frenzy thing, but as you have said with all the lag/delay thats going on its hard to tell but yeah 10-15k.
Need a new event with this skill revamp to tell the current state of PUGs.
Doing random STFs with idiots: I'll get 30-40k while everyone else can't even do close to 10k! And it doesn't even make sense! Even on my weakest of characters which run cheap gear like Mk X phasers with 4 Mk XI Uncommon Phaser Relays, I'll still do over 10k. I'll never understand how people can do even less.
I have been in an ISA pug where two people parsed and got different results. In one parse, the lowest person had about 10k and in the other they had about 14k.
The best option is for the developers to help us and give us a testing ground. Perhaps on Tribble? Perhaps in the Foundry? Perhaps an actual new map. Make it ... heh ... THE HOLODECK!
And let it be a testing ground for parsing. This isn't an unheard of idea. Champions has some power testing areas for right when you choose new powers.
This would then get fed into the players who would then help determine the standards for testing and parsing and we'd end up moving past ISA and have a much more consistent gauge of individual Damage capacity (and healing and defense as those could be separate parts of the testing as they are in Champions).
It would be a fun new addition.
I'd dig that. Would make my interface a bit easier.
I will say some folks will not like that idea. There is a shaming argument that can be made. But if people want to tell me my DPS sucks, it's ok.
Others have trouble with that. Part of the fun in this game for me is the feel that I've always got something to work on. In past MMOs it was an individual character. A suit of armor. Weapons. Stuff like that. In this game it tickles that fancy a bit more because I'm continually working on a STARSHIP. That plays into my enjoyment a bit more.
And its good to point out the wild dps swings from mission to mission as snoggy has mentioned.
That also has to be taken into consideration.
It is a very complex question ill admit.
And team composition also has to be taken into consideration as sophlo has mentioned.
That also plays a big factor.
I suppose I can increase that if really focused on "clicking" the icons as quickly as possible or using keybinds and race towards the next target as fast as possible. But I don't bother that, I rather just focus on having fun and helping the team out by either tossing GW here and there or ganging up on an enemy if someone on the team seems to be having problems.
I focus on upgrading my weapons to either ultra rare Mk XIV or epic Mk XIV. That applies to tactical and science consoles as well. But the depends if the particular captain I am focusing on has the resources to do so.
Also, just because someone's build doesn't perform well in ISA, does not necessarily mean that it isn't a good or even great build. For example, I have a Sci-Torp build that struggles to do 40K in an ISA PuG. In channel runs, I've done as little as 28K. But in most other maps, it usually outperforms the rest of the team.
As has been mentioned numerous time here and elsewhere, ISA allows us to tests things in relatively consistent environment. There is more to parsing than figuring out your DPS on a single map. Even though the build I mentioned doesn't perform well in ISA, I can use my parses to analyze and adjust my build.
Looking at the numbers posted in chat, or delving no further into the parser than the main screen tells us nothing, and drawing conclusions based on those observations is meaningless.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
You don't really need high DPS to complete those missions, at least the Na'Khul missions. I have a level 60 captain on a 2nd account that I do not spend any money on and has mostly been ranking up through playing Doff missions and more recently the admiralty system. I only just started the Fek'Ihri Returns story arc; "Blood of the Empire".
I only have uncommon / rare Mk XII weapons and tactical consoles on the free T5 Vor'cha Battlecruiser Retrofit. Combat isn't that difficult. Based on my experience against the Na'khul the only thing a player needs to do is use effective combat tactics. I have not skipped to any of the Delta Rising missions so I cannot say how my max level KDF engineering captain fairs against enemies with junk gear in those missions.
On top of that, I did not even spend all my Captain Skill Points yet. DPS is not the problem in story based missions as far as I am concerned.
I never parse, and I rarely hear anyone else parsing (partly because I don't run a lot of STFs, especially ISA). I'd probably say 5-15k, depending on the ship (a Valiant, for example, will probably do much better than a Hirogen Hunter, simply because I can slap more cannons on it before I start feeling bad about it.
My Valiant seems to be capable of wiping out Tadaari raiders in what feels like 5-10 seconds in the current FE, and the JHSS seems to perform at roughly the same level. The Excelsior probably performs worse than that (luckily, I switched to the Valiant on that character too, with a slightly different build), the Galor's probably somewhere in between. Can't speculate on the Vonph, but I'd expect the Kor to do pretty nicely too. The Hazari and Benthan ships haven't seen quite enough action lately for me to gauge their performance, and the Malem hasn't been in a proper fight since S11.5. The Ar'kif is probably the worst of my ships for some reason, I should probably reexamine its build.
(Yes, I'm suffering from chronic altitis and have somewhere around 10 characters with varying degrees of ship quality/price and gear level.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
So basically my view is don't know, don't care, as long as I can pop the bloated bags of HP in singleplayer missions without falling asleep I'm fine.
So it's probably not very high.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I usually tell them that you want to allocate as much as you can towards weapons, then shields, then aux then engines in that order in order to increase the damage their ships do,
Top End DPS Group:
Mid Top End DPS Group:
Low Top End DPS Group:
Midrange DPS Group:
Low-end DPS Group:
have fun the way you want but don't go and insult other people for having fun their way. This game isn't advertised to be a dps race in the first place and to measure others by your own standards under these circumstances is pathetic.
Most people try different builds and styles, some of which can't be measured in dps at all, but without those people for example, a lot of the folks complaining here, would have died many deaths... with your glass cannon builds and what not. I have parsed a lot, some time ago, and secretly and openly thanked a lot of people for healing me. Don't underestimate the healers, or they will overestimate you xD