And there's your misunderstanding, right there: Nowhere did anyone propose that all members of that queued team would have to be of the same level. In fact, you will find earlier posts that point out explicitly a heterogenous team.
In your example, a 75k queues up, his BV is added to the queue. A 5k queues up. Counter is at 80k. A 20k then queues up. Team complete. In such a case, it would likely be faster.
Ah, I see. That is definitely a misunderstanding on my part.
I will now clearly recap:
This thread is spawned because in maps like ISA, teams are being grouped up with high DPS people who then steamroll the content. So a 75k DPS person is essentially making the map not fun for 5k people.
You propose BV to create a system that fixes that. And in your BV system a team that was:
1- 75k
2, 3 and 4 - 20k each
5- 5k
Is now just:
1- 75k
2- 20k
3- 5k
And that completely fixes the problem!
I'm not so sure. But at least I now understand what it is you want.
Addendum:
We have battlezones with a lot more people in them than such a queue system on the basis of BV would likely produce (and maximum team sizes could still be defined).
You should. Battlezones have their own well documented population issues and gameplay problems. And there's also quite a bit of forum talk about how long those maps take to develop. Development capability in this game is a massive concern when pushing forth ideas like this which hinge on creation of new systems. The devs are usually very up front about what it is they can and can not do. And with the ultimate "metric" being how engaged the players are with new systems, your idea being as unpopular as it is, means it's a hard sell to the dev team.
No, this is not important enough to require developer attention
Seriously, trying to follow this thread is difficult at best , as the OP both changes and contradicts his own statements really often. Based on purely the thread's original question .... No. People who achieve crazy DPS numbers have spent the time, effort and in many cases cash to utilize the system they have learned to play well.
Your proposal basically sounds like a further "lowest common denominator" sort of thing. Oooo poor Bobby can't get decent DPS .... Boo freaking Hoo. Poor Bobby could stand to learn the game a little better than, and not have the Devs make everyone have to play at Bobby's level so he can feel good about himself.
Do I make crazy DPS numbers ? Hell No. Thats not my general approach to the game.
Do I think others who do approach this game for DPS should be penalized because Soplogimo doesn't like
the range of DPS? Also , Hell No.
[...]
Ah, I see. That is definitely a misunderstanding on my part.
I will now clearly recap:
This thread is spawned because in maps like ISA, teams are being grouped up with high DPS people who then steamroll the content. So a 75k DPS person is essentially making the map not fun for 5k people.
Uh, no. A 75k dps person makes the map no fun for anyone (include the person herself) that wants an intense fight.
And what if said 75k DPS player finds the "intensity" of their 75k w/"random PuG" right where they want it? I'd say it's pretty obvious that your statement is rendered "invalid".
Granted, the motivations to drive someone to think that curbstomping queues at 75k is "fun" are... questionable or reflective of a society that games in "god mode"...
Still, as others have said, if the 75k-er wanted "more challenge / intensity", said player could have applied a "player-oriented handicap"...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
No, there may be some issues with that, but the devs should work on several other things first.
[quote="sophlogimo;12920586"][quote="dareau;12920576"][...] And what if said 75k DPS player finds the "intensity" of their 75k w/"random PuG" [b]right where they want it[/b]? [/QUOTE]
Then he will obviously not meet the definition of "anyone who wants an intense fight". And will probably queue up for something only recommending 75k or so for a solo, maybe 100k for a team, so that he gets the kind of encounter he wants.[/quote]
No, this is not important enough to require developer attention
This is what the players want, thats why the AI is setup to be DPS sponges. If players wanted a challenge they'de be playing PvP, but as you know they don't want it.
The challenge for the devs is to make players spend more money, and what better way to do that then let the lo-DPS'ers get slaughtered and their depression will make them spend.
If players wanted a challenge they'de be playing PvP, but as you know they don't want it.
We did play pvp, we would still play pvp but someone in a particular position who goes by a particular name decided they didn't like pvp and thus arranged despite opposition from everyone who ever posted in the pvp forums to make pvp unplayable.
The community of this game has too few people left who can even grasp the concept of a battle value.
I think it's more to do with people not wanting this 'battle value' sorcery and disagreeing with you then it is people not grasping the concept. And it's not like it can easily be implemented and would probably never happen anyway, so it's okay.
This is what the players want, thats why the AI is setup to be DPS sponges. If players wanted a challenge they'de be playing PvP, but as you know they don't want it.
No. PvP is laughably broken and has nothing to do with being a challenge at all.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
I find it amazing that everytime the OP has someone disgaree with them, that person is "not reading the thread". Soph' have you ever considered that maybe:
A)You are not consistant in what you are saying.
Poorly communincating what your point is.
Or
C) Your points only resonate with a small amount of players?
Seriously. You complain that the dps gap is too wide, then when people suggest to help make (low dps) people play better to effectively "raise the floor", you say that makes it worse? Sounds like a bunch of Social Justice Warrior mumbo-jumbo, if I have ever heard any.
No, this is not important enough to require developer attention
I don't understand this "Battle Value".
But from the examples given it seems redundant for this game.
To set up the public queue system to do what the players already do themselves...via various DPS league channels and Fleets?
I mean, that is what people are doing in all those chat channels, right? (I don't do that chat stuff in the game.) But they are meeting people of similar levels, DPS, and skills, and team up for various group play? Plus, learning and teaching...etc. That is already organized and working.
I think lots of people left the public queues a long time ago because of the similar complaints that sophlogimo has brought up. The mantra has been: don't do public queues unless you want to be "trolled"...in one way or another.
The solution is in place already.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
The community of this game has too few people left who can even grasp the concept of a battle value.
Let the queues stay dead then. Blow up everything within seconds on sight, with no danger to your ship at all and requiring no understanding whatsoever of the game, other than following reddit build advice and spend a lot of space bucks.
I'll just no longer play the queues, enjoy single player mode, and leave you guys alone. Forget that I even bothered to solve the problem. After all, there is no problem, as has been decided. All is well.
Mods, please close the thread.
I'm with you on all those observations. The people who cared about the game are long gone to provide input, and the Devs don't even seem to mind the power gap is making advanced STFs non-events, while elite STFs generally are bound by DPS measures on top of artificial timer conditions, not that there is any end-game content to begin with, or really anyone left in any armada to team with in the first place. Instead of having the game correctly scale in difficulty to a team, we're expected to form our own teams and balance each other out to the little (repetitive and predictable) content that's there in a way that's backwards to MMO progression in the remote hope of finding some sense of MMO team dynamic and properly rewarding challenge that isn't about farming but fun.
[...]
And what if said 75k DPS player finds the "intensity" of their 75k w/"random PuG" right where they want it?
Then he will obviously not meet the definition of "anyone who wants an intense fight". And will probably queue up for something only recommending 75k or so for a solo, maybe 100k for a team, so that he gets the kind of encounter he wants.
[...]
Ah, I see. That is definitely a misunderstanding on my part.
I will now clearly recap:
This thread is spawned because in maps like ISA, teams are being grouped up with high DPS people who then steamroll the content. So a 75k DPS person is essentially making the map not fun for 5k people.
Uh, no. A 75k dps person makes the map no fun for anyone (include the person herself) that wants an intense fight.
As the chain indicates, we're in a heated argument because today we have 75k DPSers jumping advanced (theoretically more appropriately normal) queues turning the "intense challenge the 5k players seek" into a rofl curbstomp.
You indicate that said 75k person is "ruining" his or her own fun because today's maps are somehow "not fun" for a 75k DPSer.
At which point I began to beg to differ. I summarily noted that when a 75k DPSer jumps ISN or ISA, both being "level 45 STFs" obviously don't carry a ton of "battle value" - that his use of said 75k DPS ship is a tacit admission that his or her "intensity level" has been fulfilled - remember the aforementioned "self handicapping" that's so prevalent in STO wasn't applied - and if the 75k DPSer is jumping ISN (aka the supposed realms of the 5k DPSer, you need closer to 10k for "advanced"), the conscious decision was made to go with such "weak" intensity.
Akin to playing a game in "god mode" - effectively invulnerable, one shotting the "one shot killers", etc.
So, again, some insight into your thought process, please:
If players are currently jumping "low BPV" content with "massive BPV" ships, aka fulfilling their "dream" to play STO in "God Mode", your proposal would do what, again, to solve the issues of "massive DPS disparity" and allow people to remain within their "comfort levels"?
And before you go trudging through my previous posts to "find dirt"...
Yeah, my proposed "narrowing of the gap" so that the "elite player" only does 20% more DPS than the "average" player actively destroys this "god mode" play style - however, as you seemingly indicate by your "BPV Concept", you agree with me that the overall game "should" have some sort of challenge to it - and that those who find these challenges "too difficult" would obviously "move on" to "greener pastures" - someone threw Tetris and Snake at me - but for those of us who remain, the "improved balance" between the two sides should result in all content remaining "challenging" and/or "accessible" to the majority of the playerbase, potentially returning the "community" to this game instead of "shouting matches" such as this...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
That being said - Closing on OP's request. I've been keeping my eyes on this thread - There have been uncalled shots from both sides and it's best to put it to rest for now anyways, as it doesn't exactly promote a friendly, healthy discussion at all, as it currently is.
/Closed
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Comments
Ah, I see. That is definitely a misunderstanding on my part.
I will now clearly recap:
This thread is spawned because in maps like ISA, teams are being grouped up with high DPS people who then steamroll the content. So a 75k DPS person is essentially making the map not fun for 5k people.
You propose BV to create a system that fixes that. And in your BV system a team that was:
1- 75k
2, 3 and 4 - 20k each
5- 5k
Is now just:
1- 75k
2- 20k
3- 5k
And that completely fixes the problem!
I'm not so sure. But at least I now understand what it is you want.
Addendum:
You should. Battlezones have their own well documented population issues and gameplay problems. And there's also quite a bit of forum talk about how long those maps take to develop. Development capability in this game is a massive concern when pushing forth ideas like this which hinge on creation of new systems. The devs are usually very up front about what it is they can and can not do. And with the ultimate "metric" being how engaged the players are with new systems, your idea being as unpopular as it is, means it's a hard sell to the dev team.
Your proposal basically sounds like a further "lowest common denominator" sort of thing. Oooo poor Bobby can't get decent DPS .... Boo freaking Hoo. Poor Bobby could stand to learn the game a little better than, and not have the Devs make everyone have to play at Bobby's level so he can feel good about himself.
Do I make crazy DPS numbers ? Hell No. Thats not my general approach to the game.
Do I think others who do approach this game for DPS should be penalized because Soplogimo doesn't like
the range of DPS? Also , Hell No.
And what if said 75k DPS player finds the "intensity" of their 75k w/"random PuG" right where they want it? I'd say it's pretty obvious that your statement is rendered "invalid".
Granted, the motivations to drive someone to think that curbstomping queues at 75k is "fun" are... questionable or reflective of a society that games in "god mode"...
Still, as others have said, if the 75k-er wanted "more challenge / intensity", said player could have applied a "player-oriented handicap"...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
And what if said 75k DPS player finds the "intensity" of their 75k w/"random PuG" [b]right where they want it[/b]?
[/QUOTE]
Then he will obviously not meet the definition of "anyone who wants an intense fight". And will probably queue up for something only recommending 75k or so for a solo, maybe 100k for a team, so that he gets the kind of encounter he wants.[/quote]
So now YOU decide how people define things??? No.
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Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
The challenge for the devs is to make players spend more money, and what better way to do that then let the lo-DPS'ers get slaughtered and their depression will make them spend.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
We did play pvp, we would still play pvp but someone in a particular position who goes by a particular name decided they didn't like pvp and thus arranged despite opposition from everyone who ever posted in the pvp forums to make pvp unplayable.
I think it's more to do with people not wanting this 'battle value' sorcery and disagreeing with you then it is people not grasping the concept. And it's not like it can easily be implemented and would probably never happen anyway, so it's okay.
No. PvP is laughably broken and has nothing to do with being a challenge at all.
A)You are not consistant in what you are saying.
Or
C) Your points only resonate with a small amount of players?
Seriously. You complain that the dps gap is too wide, then when people suggest to help make (low dps) people play better to effectively "raise the floor", you say that makes it worse? Sounds like a bunch of Social Justice Warrior mumbo-jumbo, if I have ever heard any.
But from the examples given it seems redundant for this game.
To set up the public queue system to do what the players already do themselves...via various DPS league channels and Fleets?
I mean, that is what people are doing in all those chat channels, right? (I don't do that chat stuff in the game.) But they are meeting people of similar levels, DPS, and skills, and team up for various group play? Plus, learning and teaching...etc. That is already organized and working.
I think lots of people left the public queues a long time ago because of the similar complaints that sophlogimo has brought up. The mantra has been: don't do public queues unless you want to be "trolled"...in one way or another.
The solution is in place already.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I'm with you on all those observations. The people who cared about the game are long gone to provide input, and the Devs don't even seem to mind the power gap is making advanced STFs non-events, while elite STFs generally are bound by DPS measures on top of artificial timer conditions, not that there is any end-game content to begin with, or really anyone left in any armada to team with in the first place. Instead of having the game correctly scale in difficulty to a team, we're expected to form our own teams and balance each other out to the little (repetitive and predictable) content that's there in a way that's backwards to MMO progression in the remote hope of finding some sense of MMO team dynamic and properly rewarding challenge that isn't about farming but fun.
And that exists where in "current model" STO?
Because remember, the point was:
As the chain indicates, we're in a heated argument because today we have 75k DPSers jumping advanced (theoretically more appropriately normal) queues turning the "intense challenge the 5k players seek" into a rofl curbstomp.
You indicate that said 75k person is "ruining" his or her own fun because today's maps are somehow "not fun" for a 75k DPSer.
At which point I began to beg to differ. I summarily noted that when a 75k DPSer jumps ISN or ISA, both being "level 45 STFs" obviously don't carry a ton of "battle value" - that his use of said 75k DPS ship is a tacit admission that his or her "intensity level" has been fulfilled - remember the aforementioned "self handicapping" that's so prevalent in STO wasn't applied - and if the 75k DPSer is jumping ISN (aka the supposed realms of the 5k DPSer, you need closer to 10k for "advanced"), the conscious decision was made to go with such "weak" intensity.
Akin to playing a game in "god mode" - effectively invulnerable, one shotting the "one shot killers", etc.
So, again, some insight into your thought process, please:
If players are currently jumping "low BPV" content with "massive BPV" ships, aka fulfilling their "dream" to play STO in "God Mode", your proposal would do what, again, to solve the issues of "massive DPS disparity" and allow people to remain within their "comfort levels"?
And before you go trudging through my previous posts to "find dirt"...
Yeah, my proposed "narrowing of the gap" so that the "elite player" only does 20% more DPS than the "average" player actively destroys this "god mode" play style - however, as you seemingly indicate by your "BPV Concept", you agree with me that the overall game "should" have some sort of challenge to it - and that those who find these challenges "too difficult" would obviously "move on" to "greener pastures" - someone threw Tetris and Snake at me - but for those of us who remain, the "improved balance" between the two sides should result in all content remaining "challenging" and/or "accessible" to the majority of the playerbase, potentially returning the "community" to this game instead of "shouting matches" such as this...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
/Closed
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
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