test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Characters with a disability prohibited?

gamepedia says that characters with disability, eg visor, is prohibited? Is this right?

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Guide:_The_Foundry

Comments

  • castsbugccastsbugc Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    hmm, actually this is a very good question and I note...the visor isnt actually in the list of eye attach items. THe EULA does state you cant make characters with physical or mental disfigurements....so apparently the answer is, no, no you cannot.
  • whicky1978whicky1978 Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    The Arc EULA I was able to find says nothing derogatory about physical impairments but Im guesssing there is another EULA specific to STO.
  • kitsunesnoutkitsunesnout Member Posts: 1,210 Arc User
    This really and truly does not make any sense whatsoever, and I know I've played a number of medical related foundry missions in the past depicting such, and they were done in very appropriate manner true to Trek.
  • castsbugccastsbugc Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    its pinned at the top of this forum, I cant link to it because the system posts from ages past dont post well in vanilla, but...

    Other Prohibited uses of New Game Materials published using The Foundry:
    You may not use New Game Materials to endorse or appose any political party, association (e.g., republican, democrat, candidates, or otherwise) or any side of any issue.
    You may not use New Game Materials to depict a likeness of any real person (historical or present day).
    You may not use New Game Materials to advertise any businesses, products or services of any party.
    You may not publish web URLs in your content.
    You may not use New Game Materials to convey any profanity, vulgar, hate language explicit sexual language, derogatory references to race, gender, religion, age, mental or physical impairment, obesity or sexual orientation, or reference any drugs (legal or illicit) or medication.
    You many not make use of any copyrighted or trademarked material of third parties, and only may use the Star Trek Properties as explicitly defined in this agreement, without irrevocable licenses granted specifically for that purpose
    You may not use New Game Materials to infringe on the rights of privacy and publicity of third parties.
  • whicky1978whicky1978 Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    Too bad the EULA excludes Mark Twain.
  • kitsunesnoutkitsunesnout Member Posts: 1,210 Arc User
    "derogatory references" I think that's the key wording here, I missed it the first time. But I think it's pretty clear now that it only is a problem if derogatory. If done respectfully I think there shouldn't be a problem then.
  • castsbugccastsbugc Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    whicky1978 wrote: »
    Too bad the EULA excludes Mark Twain.

    Forget Mark Twain.....Space Lincoln :(
    "derogatory references" I think that's the key wording here, I missed it the first time. But I think it's pretty clear now that it only is a problem if derogatory. If done respectfully I think there shouldn't be a problem then.

    Yeah, and to be fair I only checked a bajoran last night looking for the VISOR and didnt see it, but it might be on other heads because I swear it was in there, but at the same time we don't have the ability to replicate "Pike in the Chair" or even the low gravity planet girl from DS9 as well
  • whicky1978whicky1978 Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    Maybe we should start a petition to change the rule. :smile:
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    Most disabilities like that are probably curable by the 25th century anyway, if not by biological therapies than by cybernetics (the VISOR and ocular implants, Picard's heart, Nog's leg). Speaking of which, that's your solution. Use gray irises on the character and just mention somehow that he has the ocular implants that Geordi upgraded to after Generations.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • whicky1978whicky1978 Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    Sounds good
    starswordc wrote: »
    Most disabilities like that are probably curable by the 25th century anyway, if not by biological therapies than by cybernetics (the VISOR and ocular implants, Picard's heart, Nog's leg). Speaking of which, that's your solution. Use gray irises on the character and just mention somehow that he has the ocular implants that Geordi upgraded to after Generations.

    Sounds good
  • wombat140wombat140 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    Yes, I thought for a while that there was a rule against showing disabled characters (and was cross about it), but I think it's actually just clumsy punctuation.
    castsbugc wrote: »
    You may not use New Game Materials to convey any profanity, vulgar, hate language explicit sexual language, derogatory references to race, gender, religion, age, mental or physical impairment, obesity or sexual orientation, or reference any drugs (legal or illicit) or medication.
    I think rather than being a separate item, "mental or physical impairment" is in fact just one of the long list of things you aren't to make derogatory references to. Which is good, because disabilities and how that pans out are good chewy science fiction material.

    I can see it being rather hard to police, anyway, in a setting like this. Exactly what is a disability? Cardassians are hard of hearing compared to Humans, and Humans are hard of hearing (and physically weak, and several other things) compared to Vulcans. There's Seven of Nine with her superhuman mental and physical abilities, profound psychological issues, and occasional hallucinations and malfunction-induced psychotic episodes. And if assessed by purely Human standards, Mr Spock might well be considered to be too psychologically abnormal to be accepted for space service; whereas Vulcans frequently consider the entire Human race to be dangerously mentally unstable.
    Fun stuff.
  • drogyn1701drogyn1701 Member Posts: 3,606 Media Corps
    Example. In my mission [ICO] Under Grey Skies I have a character who is a shuttle pilot who gets wounded. She loses her arm and gets a prosthetic. Nobody makes fun of her, calls her names, anything like that. I'm working on a followup mission where she will appear again and talk a little about how she is coping with her prosthetic, and then by the end she'll have figured it all out and be back to work piloting.

    I should think this portrayal of a disability would be acceptable.
    The Foundry Roundtable live Saturdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    starswordc wrote: »
    Most disabilities like that are probably curable by the 25th century anyway, if not by biological therapies than by cybernetics (the VISOR and ocular implants, Picard's heart, Nog's leg). Speaking of which, that's your solution. Use gray irises on the character and just mention somehow that he has the ocular implants that Geordi upgraded to after Generations.

    Better still, what are the implications of treatment for said disabilities.

    Julian Bashir is technically an illegal Augment, and his father was actually imprisoned for violation of the eugenics laws. So what of Bashir's lifespan, children, etc.? Is Bashir himself still a viable character to bring up, did his descendents inherit his disability or his Augmentations, has the Bashir case and his work with the Jack Pack lead to broader acceptance of Augments? What potential side-effects have these possiblities created?

    What of Bashir's interest in cybernetics following his interactions with Data? Were new prosthetic technologies developed, were cybernetic and genetic treatments integrated to improve viability? What if (thanks to all the time travel we're doing) the Borg are nothing more than human Cybernetic Augments that went back in time to Collectively (pun intended) ensure their own evolution by entering into conflict with the Federation... forcing the Federation to take steps forward in medical technology and cybernetic prostheses? Without Borg intervention, would the Alpha/Beta Quadrant species even have had the military and medical capabilities to respond to the Iconians?

    And that's just some potential with Bashir and his work...
    Ym9x9Ji.png
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
    With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.​​
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    starswordc wrote: »
    Most disabilities like that are probably curable by the 25th century anyway, if not by biological therapies than by cybernetics (the VISOR and ocular implants, Picard's heart, Nog's leg). Speaking of which, that's your solution. Use gray irises on the character and just mention somehow that he has the ocular implants that Geordi upgraded to after Generations.

    Better still, what are the implications of treatment for said disabilities.

    Julian Bashir is technically an illegal Augment, and his father was actually imprisoned for violation of the eugenics laws. So what of Bashir's lifespan, children, etc.? Is Bashir himself still a viable character to bring up, did his descendents inherit his disability or his Augmentations, has the Bashir case and his work with the Jack Pack lead to broader acceptance of Augments? What potential side-effects have these possiblities created?

    What of Bashir's interest in cybernetics following his interactions with Data? Were new prosthetic technologies developed, were cybernetic and genetic treatments integrated to improve viability? What if (thanks to all the time travel we're doing) the Borg are nothing more than human Cybernetic Augments that went back in time to Collectively (pun intended) ensure their own evolution by entering into conflict with the Federation... forcing the Federation to take steps forward in medical technology and cybernetic prostheses? Without Borg intervention, would the Alpha/Beta Quadrant species even have had the military and medical capabilities to respond to the Iconians?

    And that's just some potential with Bashir and his work...

    The only difficulty with that is we can't really use Bashir or Data in person because of the "likenesses of real people" thing. Although frankly I'd like to see an augment refuse to take the Bashir plea deal and instead file a constitutional lawsuit to keep his position, call the Federation out on humanocentrism and bigotry a la LGBT rights. Why should a Bajoran or Bolian give two TRIBBLE about the Eugenics Wars and Khan Singh's legacy? They happened four hundred years ago on a different planet, to a different species. I thought the Federation wasn't supposed to be a Homo sapiens-only club.

    Time for the nonhumans to pull humanity's head out of its TRIBBLE.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    starswordc wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    Most disabilities like that are probably curable by the 25th century anyway, if not by biological therapies than by cybernetics (the VISOR and ocular implants, Picard's heart, Nog's leg). Speaking of which, that's your solution. Use gray irises on the character and just mention somehow that he has the ocular implants that Geordi upgraded to after Generations.

    Better still, what are the implications of treatment for said disabilities.

    Julian Bashir is technically an illegal Augment, and his father was actually imprisoned for violation of the eugenics laws. So what of Bashir's lifespan, children, etc.? Is Bashir himself still a viable character to bring up, did his descendents inherit his disability or his Augmentations, has the Bashir case and his work with the Jack Pack lead to broader acceptance of Augments? What potential side-effects have these possiblities created?

    What of Bashir's interest in cybernetics following his interactions with Data? Were new prosthetic technologies developed, were cybernetic and genetic treatments integrated to improve viability? What if (thanks to all the time travel we're doing) the Borg are nothing more than human Cybernetic Augments that went back in time to Collectively (pun intended) ensure their own evolution by entering into conflict with the Federation... forcing the Federation to take steps forward in medical technology and cybernetic prostheses? Without Borg intervention, would the Alpha/Beta Quadrant species even have had the military and medical capabilities to respond to the Iconians?

    And that's just some potential with Bashir and his work...

    The only difficulty with that is we can't really use Bashir or Data in person because of the "likenesses of real people" thing. Although frankly I'd like to see an augment refuse to take the Bashir plea deal and instead file a constitutional lawsuit to keep his position, call the Federation out on humanocentrism and bigotry a la LGBT rights. Why should a Bajoran or Bolian give two TRIBBLE about the Eugenics Wars and Khan Singh's legacy? They happened four hundred years ago on a different planet, to a different species. I thought the Federation wasn't supposed to be a Homo sapiens-only club.

    Time for the nonhumans to pull humanity's head out of its TRIBBLE.

    Now that is a great suggestion. What about a class action suit brought against the Alliance itself by former bioresearch subjects, specifically including Elizabeth Mohr ("The nightmare to be dreaded most is the nightmare from which sleep itself is the respite."), Mochaak ("Give me the pain of a thousand cuts before this betrayal of myself by my own mind."), and a number of Dr. Sibak (clones) ("Logic requires that your unstable element must be eliminated."). They could be seeking legal treatments now that they've been re-introduced into society, and have found none due the Federation restrictions on genetic technologies being imposed on the Alliance as a whole.

    I think it should include a Ferengi member of Project Chrysalis as the primary litigant (filing under the Ferengi legal system), suffering from one of the worst possible side effects: Empathy. ("Now I have to feel cheated when I get the better end of a deal, because they feel cheated, and I have to feel them feeling cheated! Sure, I can still trade with Vulcans, but where's the joy in that? I've been wronged Your Honor, just like that Talaxan colony last month! Yes, that one, I knew you'd understand perfectly.") This leaves the poor Ferengi victim of Project Chrysalis unable to trade with anyone other than Vulcans; the Ferengi brain structure limited her psionic abilities to empathy when dealing with non-Ferengi, and she utterly ignores any questions as to her telepathic abilities where other Ferengi are concerned. Whether or not her comments are a misdirect from more conventional extortion, or stem from actual telepathy, would be left to the player to decide.


    Maybe have the player called to testify about their participation in Project Chrysalis? After all, we are directly responsible for providing materials, personnel, and even control subjects for the program. Many of us even have former participants in our crew, and dialog could be adjusted where players are confronted by either Elizabeth Mohr or Mochaak (depending on which faction's mission was being played) when they realize our culpability in the origins of the Project.


    Maybe things took a dark turn of events after the rescue of the player's Dr. Sibak (clone). What if we learn that the Dr. Sibak (clones)-in-a-jar we rescued, along with the research equipment, had been secretly transferred for use in a Project Chrysalis Shift? This follow-up program was intended to make even more powerful psionic weapons out of any Project Chrysalis subjects that proved too unstable for release into normal society. Adapting techniques garnered from an obscure Angosian military program, the Project Chrysalis Shift subjects were further modified; these Project Chrysalis Shift subjects were prone to extreme violence (both physical and psionic) when threatened, making the Dr. Sibak (clones)-in-a-jar a perfect trigger to gather combat data. These (clones)-in-a-jar were "blanks", with no mind meld from the original Dr. Sibak and no way of otherwise understanding their own "unstable elements"... yet they were also capable of performing a mind meld on their dying counterparts. This ensured that combat data from the Sibak Network could be shared both amongst the (clones)-in-a-jar and with the researchers.

    What about a mission to rescue these test subjects... do we find the participants compliant, or do we find the researchers slaughtered and the surviving test subjects fighting it out? If we rescue them, what do we do when threatment is blocked by the Alliance because said treatment would require illegal genetic therapies? How does our Dr. Sibak (clone) react when confronted by what could have been his fate as well?

    Yeah, there's a certain scientific ripoff going on in that last one...
    Post edited by breadandcircuses on
    Ym9x9Ji.png
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
    With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.​​
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    My train of thought was that the Vulcans are somehow to blame. Of the non-human races they know the most about the horrors of the Eugenics wars. But..... I don't think that even the Vulcans would decide to stay away from it entirely just because of that. Despite the allegations of being human-centric, there is a LOT of Vulcan influence in Federation policy.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    Now that is a great suggestion. What about a class action suit brought against the Alliance itself by former bioresearch subjects, specifically including Elizabeth Mohr ("The nightmare to be dreaded most is the nightmare from which sleep itself is the respite."), Mochaak ("Give me the pain of a thousand cuts before this betrayal of myself by my own mind."), and a number of Dr. Sibak (clones) ("Logic requires that your unstable element must be eliminated."). They could be seeking legal treatments now that they've been re-introduced into society, and have found none due the Federation restrictions on genetic technologies being imposed on the Alliance as a whole.

    Well, actually, I can see the Klingons having enacted gene-aug restrictions independently because of the augment virus thing (ENT, bleah). The Romulans, though... Well, in Diane Duane the proto-Romulans resorted to cloning and genetic engineering to bulk up their population after the Sundering, since only seven of the original eighteen colony ships actually reached ch'Rihan (and that's before we factor in the mini-civil war on Dewa III that STO's backstory added). That's also why the Romulans don't go through pon farr: they removed it from their genome entirely.

    As for the rest, I really like where that's going.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Sign In or Register to comment.