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Control Amplification & Drain Infection Power Tie-In Thread

illcadiaillcadia Member Posts: 1,412 Bug Hunter
Bort mentioned in the other thread that it would help if players could go through the various activatable powers for control and drain, and determine if they hook into these respective skills or not. I'll be maintaining a master list in the OP, but I don't have access to all the stuff out there, so if anyone has noticed the presence or lack thereof of these abilities, please indicate in your reply your findings.


Control Amplification
Gravity Well - HOOKED IN (Note: Control amplification missing from gravity well tooltip)
Tractor Beam - HOOKED IN
Photonic Shockwave - HOOKED IN
Scramble Sensors - HOOKED IN
Tractor Beam Repulsors - HOOKED IN (Note: Control amplification missing from TBR tooltip)
Jam Sensors - HOOKED IN

Eject Warp Plasma - NOT HOOKED IN FIXED
Boarding Party - NOT HOOKED IN Intentional / Design Limitation
Emit Unstable Warp Bubble - HOOKED IN

Electro-Magnetic Pulse Probe - NOT HOOKED IN
Ionic turbulence - NOT HOOKED IN FIXED
Subnucleonic Carrier Warve - NOT HOOKED IN Intentional / Not a Control Power
Viral Impulse Burse - HOOKED IN
Evade Target Lock - HOOKED IN

Suppression Barrage - NOT HOOKED IN Intentional / Design Limitation
Singularity Jump - NOT HOOKED IN FIXED


ITEM POWERS
Vent Theta Radiation (both control and drain applicable) - NOT HOOKED IN FIXED
Polaric Chromoelectric Modulator (Benthan) - NOT HOOKED IN Intentional / Design Limitation
Graviton Pulse Generator - HOOKED IN
Subspace Integration Circuit (both control and drain applicable) - NOT HOOKED IN FIXED
Constriction Anchor - NOT HOOKED IN FIXED
Temporal Distortion Field (Annorax) - NOT HOOKED IN FIXED
Projected Singularity (Pull) - NOT HOOKED IN FIXED
Spatial Sinkhole Generator (Sci Pilot Escort) - NOT HOOKED IN FIXED
Subspace Eddy (Eng Pilot Escort) - NOT HOOKED IN FIXED
Temporal Inversion Field (Lobi Store Set) - HOOKED IN
Gravitic Anchor (Omega Force Space Set) - NOT HOOKED IN FIXED


REPUTATION POWERS
Lone Wolf (Placate) - NOT HOOKED IN Intentional / Design Limitation

Drain Infection
Tykens Rift - HOOKED IN
Charged Particle Burst - HOOKED IN
Energy Siphon - HOOKED IN
Viral Matrix - HOOKED IN
Tachyon Beam - HOOKED IN
Destabilizing Resonance Beam (Control on final tick) - NOT HOOKED IN
FIXED
Target ____ Subsystems - NOT HOOKED IN Intentional / Design Limitation / May be changed, if possible, in the future


ITEM POWERS
Polymorphic Probe Array (Subsystem offline) - NOT HOOKED IN FIXED
Sabotage Probe Launcher (Drain) NOT HOOKED IN FIXED
Aceton Assimilator NOT HOOKED IN FIXED
Aceton Field Generator (Palisade) - NOT HOOKED IN FIXED

Post edited by illcadia on
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Comments

  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    Pretty sure Gravity Well benefits from Control amplication. Granted, I have no way of knowing if it actually reduces damage resistance, but enemies have Control amplification debuff icon when I catch them in GW.

    Edit: Tractor Beam Repulsor also applies it.
  • illcadiaillcadia Member Posts: 1,412 Bug Hunter
    Pretty sure Gravity Well benefits from Control amplication. Granted, I have no way of knowing if it's actually reduces damage resistance, but enemies have Control amplification debuff icon when I catch them in GW.

    Interesting. It's not on the tooltip, which is what I'm basing my initial findings on. I'll check it and add a note if it turns out to just be the tooltip that's wrong.
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Cool thanks for this list... I'm still not sold on the uptimes I wish anomalies like Grav well and Tykens rift would re-apply it as five seconds is just such a small window especially for a debuff. My torpedoes can't even fly to the target fast enough to the take advantage of it.
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    This is a well-organized thread, thanks for creating it!
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 7,788 Arc User
    I can comfirm that emp probe, eject plasma and ionic turbulence is not hooked in.
  • cryptkeeper0cryptkeeper0 Member Posts: 789 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    You should add some traits like overwhelming force etc.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,595 Bug Hunter
    @illcadia - The Voth Diplomat doff, the Solanae 2nd deflector, and the quantum phase torpedo also drain power or shields. Not sure how large in scope drain infection is supposed to be.

  • illcadiaillcadia Member Posts: 1,412 Bug Hunter
    lucho80 wrote: »
    @illcadia - The Voth Diplomat doff, the Solanae 2nd deflector, and the quantum phase torpedo also drain power or shields. Not sure how large in scope drain infection is supposed to be.

    Drain Infection and Control Amplification are intended to ONLY work with powers that are activated. If it isn't activated and just 'happens' (such as Plasmonic Leech), then those abilities are not meant to apply.

    That's why 'all' sources of drain/control aren't listed, only ones related to captain, boff, and item/set powers. Those are the ones we need to go through and check/test for, and I can't do it all myself, because I don't have every item set/ship console/whatever.

    Moreover, as some of the powers don't have their tooltips hooked up properly, going through manually is appreciated. I've gone through everything on the list I have so far to confirm, so everything looks to be accurate, but there's probably a good amount of stuff I've missed.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,595 Bug Hunter
    illcadia wrote: »

    Drain Infection and Control Amplification are intended to ONLY work with powers that are activated. If it isn't activated and just 'happens' (such as Plasmonic Leech), then those abilities are not meant to apply.

    That's why 'all' sources of drain/control aren't listed, only ones related to captain, boff, and item/set powers. Those are the ones we need to go through and check/test for, and I can't do it all myself, because I don't have every item set/ship console/whatever.

    Moreover, as some of the powers don't have their tooltips hooked up properly, going through manually is appreciated. I've gone through everything on the list I have so far to confirm, so everything looks to be accurate, but there's probably a good amount of stuff I've missed.

    Here is a list of drain skill stuff from Borticu's post when he increased the effectivness by 50% some weeks ago. I admit, I don't have or use the Chymera Tachyon Inversion, Drain Drain doff for TBO, QDB, or shield inversion.

    Charged Particle Burst (Boff Power)
    Tachyon Inversion Beams (Chimera)
    Tractor Beam Officer (Tractor Beam drains shields)
    Breen Energy Siphon (3pc set bonus)
    Quantum Destabilizing Beam (3pc set bonus)
    Plasmonic Leech (Console)
    Energy Siphon (Boff Power)
    Improved Tachyon Beam (Starship Trait)
    Shield Inversion (Console)
    Enhanced Shield Inversion (Console + Set Bonus)

    As for activation, it's a bit vague. I activate TT to get the weapons power drain doff buff, and I'd have to activate tractor beam to drain shields, so not sure if that 2nd degree activation counts.

  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 7,788 Arc User
    So...just another point...while charged particle burst is hooked into DI, it is NOT hooked into control amp. CPB does have a disable along with the shield drain so it should have both. Also the romulan sing jump is not hooked into control amp. None of the romulan sing powers are actually...but other then sing jump, not sure if they should qualify or not. The plasma shockwave just lists damage but it seems to have a repel effect as well...and warp shadow is...wierd.
  • illcadiaillcadia Member Posts: 1,412 Bug Hunter
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    So...just another point...while charged particle burst is hooked into DI, it is NOT hooked into control amp. CPB does have a disable along with the shield drain so it should have both. Also the romulan sing jump is not hooked into control amp. None of the romulan sing powers are actually...but other then sing jump, not sure if they should qualify or not. The plasma shockwave just lists damage but it seems to have a repel effect as well...and warp shadow is...wierd.

    For charged particle burst, it's disable only applies to cloaking powers, so I wouldn't really classify it as a control effect. Doffs and passives that add additional effects to powers similarly shouldn't be something that adds control amp/drain infect because that's extra hoops to program for. We should be looking at powers in their base forms, not potential superlevel interactions.

    As for the romulan singularity powers, I'll add it.

  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 7,788 Arc User
    illcadia wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    So...just another point...while charged particle burst is hooked into DI, it is NOT hooked into control amp. CPB does have a disable along with the shield drain so it should have both. Also the romulan sing jump is not hooked into control amp. None of the romulan sing powers are actually...but other then sing jump, not sure if they should qualify or not. The plasma shockwave just lists damage but it seems to have a repel effect as well...and warp shadow is...wierd.

    For charged particle burst, it's disable only applies to cloaking powers, so I wouldn't really classify it as a control effect. Doffs and passives that add additional effects to powers similarly shouldn't be something that adds control amp/drain infect because that's extra hoops to program for. We should be looking at powers in their base forms, not potential superlevel interactions.

    I don't know...a disable to cloaking is a disable still. Course control expertise doesn't seem to affect the cloak disable one bit so I can see why it isn't there. It would bring some new life into CPB if it did get both. As for add ons to abilities, I don't agree with you that we SHOULD be looking at just the base forms. I think for these abilities to be worthwhile, we need a LOT of them...especially since they don't refresh. That said, the programing nightmare this would cause is good reason to not do it...but that isn't the same as saying that we SHOULD just look at the base forms from a design PoV.
  • deathray38deathray38 Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    How about starship traits? Neither Viral Torpedo nor Overwhelming Force activates any of these abilities...
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    deathray38 wrote: »
    How about starship traits? Neither Viral Torpedo nor Overwhelming Force activates any of these abilities...
    This is by design. They are not activated abilities.

    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • malebissemalebisse Member Posts: 85 Arc User
    How about Refracting Tetryon Cascade? I know it's a trait, but it is activated through your skill tray.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,674 Arc User
    What about the Spatial Sinkhole Generators and the Subspace Eddy Consoles from the Pilot Escorts? Both seem to be control effects and are activatable. (I haven't had the chance to check them yet.)
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • iusassetiusasset Member Posts: 118 Arc User
    Refracting Tetryon Cascade just deals Tetryon damage, though. You going to have every weapon with a shield or power level drain proc pick up drain infection? That would be..ill-advised, I think.
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 7,788 Arc User
    iusasset wrote: »
    Refracting Tetryon Cascade just deals Tetryon damage, though. You going to have every weapon with a shield or power level drain proc pick up drain infection? That would be..ill-advised, I think.

    Bort has said weapon procs are a no go by design...so yes, tet cascade would not get DI, and they won't be doing it. Not that I agree with that since it would be a good way to get 100% uptime...which this skill basically needs to be worthwhile with the piddly damage it does. Like I said, it needs something other then damage if it's gonna be worth a skill since having it ad 1.5k DPS if you REALLY spec out for it is not worth a skill in the least. Oh and the newb who takes it will probably be getting 250 DPS or less out of it. So it really becomes a trap skill because it sounds good...but is terrible.
  • illcadiaillcadia Member Posts: 1,412 Bug Hunter
    If anyone has a pilot escort with the consoles and can check if they would qualify, I'd welcome that so I can add it to the list.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,674 Arc User
    illcadia wrote: »
    If anyone has a pilot escort with the consoles and can check if they would qualify, I'd welcome that so I can add it to the list.
    Not before Monday at the earliest.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,834 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    Temporal inversion field and Krenim console does show the control debuff. Which is kinda cool...Just a long wait between uses..

    The..Gravitic Anchor (omega 3 peice) does not show the Control debuff..It would be cool if it was hooked in :P
    Post edited by odinforever20000 on

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    Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.


  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,674 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    illcadia wrote: »
    If anyone has a pilot escort with the consoles and can check if they would qualify, I'd welcome that so I can add it to the list.
    Not before Monday at the earliest.
    Okay, here is what I see on the tooltip: (Character Mara [email protected] on Tribble, trained with Control Expertise and Drain Expertise I, and with Control Amplification and Drain Infection and Exotic Particle Generator I).

    Spatial Sinkhole
    Creates a Level 61 Spatial Sinkhole 8 km. ahead for 2 sec:
    Pull -450.2 on foes up to 5 km. away (7.5 km with Pilot Console Set Bonus)
    5,227.4 Kinetic Damage on Collapse
    40 Kinetic Damage Resistance Reduction
    Reveals Cloaked ships.

    -> The Pull should make it a control effect,but I see no mention of Control Amplification, neither as tooltip, nor in the combat look.

    Subspace Eddy
    Creates a Level 61 Subspace Eddy for 20 sec:
    Pulls along direction of eddy.
    Each vortex in eddy: 183 Kinetic DAmage per sec (ignores shields) (increass close to center)
    Reveals cloaked ships
    Creates 3 vortices in the eddy (5 with console set bonus) that pull out to 2.7 kmm (Range incerased by Graviton Generators)

    -> The Pull should make it a control effect,but I see no mention of Control Amplification, neither as tooltip, nor in the combat look.
    -> Also, the tooltip still lists Graviton Generators.



    I also tested Micro-Projectile Launchers. It actually has a knock effect, maybe that could also count as control. But also no sign of being affected by either Control Amplification or Drain Infection.

    Post edited by mustrumridcully0 on
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • illcadiaillcadia Member Posts: 1,412 Bug Hunter
    Temporal inversion field and Krenim console does show the control debuff. Which is kinda cool...Just a long wait between uses..

    The..Gravitic Anchor (omega 3 peice) does not show the Control debuff..It would be cool if it was hooked in :P

    Which Krenim console? The science ship, the Annorax, or the Warship?
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    I just wanted say thank you, illcadia, this is an amazingly helpful presentation of a LOT of linked issues.

    Definitely hoping the Intel abilities and the consumable items make the cut when everything is hooked up.


    ...So many colors :flushed:.
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    edited March 2016
    Thanks to this thread, I am in the process of checking in a whole slew of fixes to both Control Amplification and Drain Infection, allowing them to interact with all of the following abilities:

    Control Amplification
    ** Eject Warp Plasma
    ** EMP Probe
    ** Ionic Turbulence
    ** Singularity Jump
    ** Vent Theta Radiation
    ** Subspace Integration Circuit
    ** Constriction Anchor
    ** Projected Singularity
    ** Spatial Sinkhole
    ** Subspace Eddy
    ** Gravitic Anchor

    Drain Infection
    ** Subspace Integration Circuit
    ** Destabilizing Resonance Beam
    ** Polymorphic Probe Array
    ** Sabotage Probe Launcher
    ** Aceton Assimilator
    ** Aceton Field Generator

    There are a few from the above list that won't be able to benefit from either of these enhancements, for various reasons:

    - Boarding Party (Power activation sequence prevents attaching enhancement effects. Not improved by Control Expertise.)
    - Subnucleonic Carrier Wave (Not technically a Control or Drain effect - modifies ability recharges. Not improved by Control Expertise.)
    - Suppression Barrage (Applies an Enhancement to your weapons, which cannot accept other Enhancements. Not improved by Control Expertise.)
    - Polaric Chromoelectric Modulator (Power activation sequence prevents attaching enhancement effects. Not improved by Control Expertise.)
    - Lone Wolf (Power activation sequence prevents attaching enhancement effects. Not improved by Control Expertise.)

    And one special case, which currently cannot benefit, but that we would like to review again in the future to see if we can improve that interaction:

    - Target Subsystems : ALL (Applies an Enhancement to your weapons, which cannot accept other Enhancements. Still enhanced by Drain Expertise.)

    And last, but not least, "Temporal Distortion Field (Annorax)" is on the list above, but already works just fine. =)

    Thanks for the excellent feedback and bug reporting!
    Post edited by borticuscryptic on
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • illcadiaillcadia Member Posts: 1,412 Bug Hunter
    Fantastic, glad to be of help.
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    It's probably worth mentioning that many of these will not appear on tooltips, but will still function. We're still investigating how to potentially solve that issue at some point in the future.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • illcadiaillcadia Member Posts: 1,412 Bug Hunter
    It's probably worth mentioning that many of these will not appear on tooltips, but will still function. We're still investigating how to potentially solve that issue at some point in the future.

    If you ever need a sounding board...

    And I'm pretty good at extrapolating how something might be done, even if I don't actually have the skills to do it myself.

    I'd write a long meandering set of suggestions (more like I did and deleted it), but I know you don't really have time for that now :tongue:
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    I wonder if the abilities that are valid candidates for Drain Infection could just have an always visible [Infectious] tag added to their tool tip?

    illcadia, you might know... are all the abilities that can benefit from Control Amplification also triggering Invasive Control Programming?
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,674 Arc User
    And one special case, which currently cannot benefit, but that we would like to review again in the future to see if we can improve that interaction:

    - Target Subsystems : ALL (Applies an Enhancement to your weapons, which cannot accept other Enhancements. Still enhanced by Drain Expertise.)
    Oho!

    Target Subsystem could use any help it can get. ;)
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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