test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Should the jupiter class carrier be able to launch Miranda Class Light Cruisers ??

2»

Comments

  • sorceror01sorceror01 Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    No, this is not what the ship was designed for ?
    sorceror01 wrote: »
    No because the Miranda Class is light cruiser NOT a Frigate

    But what really cinches it for me is what others have said , what would a warp capable ship with a crew of 300+ need with a carrier?

    what would bops want with a carrier either? they are warp capable, can operate independently for a short time due to the ships limited space, perhaps a few months at a time. they do not require any assistance either and like miranda class ship, just as effective and just as easy to be stopped.

    carriers are there to store ships that do not have a warp drive, ships thats sole purpose is to attack and destroy their target, shields, aux systems and so on are an afterthought except engines, fighters without good engines are as good as dead.

    if you are going to make that arguement, then kdf carriers should not carry any raiders, jem'hadar carriers should not carry any bug ships, xindi ships should not carry frigate sized pets either.

    i like to you try explain why these others should be nerfed because you feel the federation carrier shouldnt carry their own version of a frigate sized ship.

    Firstly, you are misunderstanding something fundamental about small craft in Star Trek in their relationships to carrier-type craft:
    Almost every kind of small craft in ST is warp capable, to varying degrees. Furthermore, all the ships that can be launched from any of our flight-deck ships already have warp capabilities (yes, even the Peregrines). Carriers in Star Trek don't transport them because they lack FTL capabilities, but because they can transport them faster than they can travel on their own as well as provide support facilities for large numbers of small craft.

    Secondly, as has been pointed out already, there is a huge difference between a Miranda class and a B'rel. Mirandas are much, much larger than the B-o-P, carrying nearly four times as many crew. A B'rel can reasonably be used as a hangar pet because they only carry 50 crew versus the 200-300 or so crew of the Miranda class; the sheer size difference is what puts the Miranda off from ever being a frigate-type pet.

    Thirdly, there is a difference between a frigate-type starship and a frigate-type hangar pet. In the latter, it usually refers to a ship much larger than a shuttle or a fighter, but small enough to still reasonably fit inside a mothership (raiders fall into this category, as do the Callisto Light Escorts).
    A frigate-class starship is, by and large, still a front line starship of some sort, with a few hundred crew and greater operating capacity than a ship that only sports 40-50 crew.
    B'rels are the only playable starship that also come in the form of a hangar pet, because their small size allows for it (barring any future playable Callistos that may pop up, naturally).

    1. no im not.
    2. not that much difference, miranda 227m x 174m x 65m compared to a b'rel 157m x 181m x 98m if anything the b'rel is much larger than the miranda width wise and height wise. you are wasting your time as i already know this.
    3. i mentioned a frigate sized ship. dont get ahead of yourself.

    1. Yes you are, as you mentioned things like fuel consumption and your misunderstanding of basic shuttlecraft and fighters in Trek actually having warp drives. Why mention mechanics that have literally no bearing on the subject.
    2. I don't know where you're getting your measurements, but a B'rel class B-o-P is 88 by 130 by 21 meters and carries about 30 crew in-game, while a Miranda class is 237 by 141 by 58 meters and carries 200 crew in-game. A B'rel may almost be as wide as a Miranda because of its wings, but it is no where near the volume or weight of the ship, and can possibly take up slightly less space considering its wings can fold up to a degree.
    You may be confusing it with the somewhat erroneous K'vort class, a ship that even in canon, was poorly described an depicted.
    3. You mentioned ships that are classified as frigate-sized combat pets, but their NPC (or playable) versions are still classified as raiders. Raiders are smaller than actual frigate sized starships.

    And if I'm "wasting my time" because you "already know this", then it seems like you're just arguing for arguing's sake, so it honestly doesn't matter what anyone says as you've already decided what position you're going to take and merely going to stand indefinitely on that that position.
    narthais wrote: »
    equinox976 wrote: »
    B'rels are the only playable starship that also come in the form of a hangar pet, because their small size allows for it.

    Arn't the 'Bug Ships' hanger pets too? (if you have both the Gem' carrier + playable Bug ship).

    Also the Breen raider, and the Kazon raider, though its not a pet we can use the kazon carriers launch them.

    They are, but I tend to discount lockbox ships in these listings because the playerbase by and large doesn't have them.
    Kazon raider is discounted for that reason, too.
    I think I've ever only seen someone flying a Kazon ship two or three times, tbh. Even less than the other raiders.
    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • fiberteksyfirfiberteksyfir Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    No, this is not what the ship was designed for ?
    It should have a bay full of Connies :smile:
  • johnnymo1johnnymo1 Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    No, this is not what the ship was designed for ?
    launch defiants, then replace the torpedo bays where they can launch planets at their enimies
  • This content has been removed.
  • grazyc2#7847 grazyc2 Member Posts: 1,988 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    Yes Jupiter Class should be able to launch Miranda's
    Instead Miranda's could be rebuild so the struts could hold the ship weight, I think on second thought the Defiant Class would be a better choice because of her flat plating under and make landing struts on an defiant would be much more easy. So on second thought it would be much more fun seeing a Defiant Class Star ship launch from The Jupiter... Put some fear into the enemy right ? And Two Deviant's could defend the Jupiter well enough. But the Suggestion to have an button activate once you are a fleet Admiral/General you can call in a support fleet, witch you already can Nimbus Pirates, Romulan or Reman Ships.
    But it was just a thought if you could launch something more or bigger with such an impressive ship like the Jupiter...
    Also the Defiant is used in planetary assaults more then once !! So I think the defiant would be a could choice. It would put the Enterprise to shame to be honest ...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
  • equinox976equinox976 Member Posts: 2,305 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    No, this is not what the ship was designed for ?
    kirk2390 wrote: »
    I think on second thought the Defiant Class would be a better choice because of her flat plating under and make landing struts on an defiant would be much more easy.
    So I think the defiant would be a could choice. It would put the Enterprise to shame to be honest ...

    Defiant class vessels have a maxium warp speed of 9.982 sustainable for 12 hours (technical manual). So why on earth would it need anything to 'carry' it anywhere??
  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    No because I think romulans and klingons should get the nice stuff. They need it the most!
    Yeah, thing is I would rather see more romulan and klingon content and them making roms a full faction.
  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    Meh... forget a carrier for the Miranda.

    I want a carrier for an Odyssey.
  • ussinterceptussintercept Member Posts: 627 Arc User
    I wouldnt mind it on one condition. They gave us an updated version of the Miranda.

    Apparently the overall design inspired two other versions to be built over the course of what, 70 years as of DS9? If the ship was that flexible and such a great ship to play the role as Fleet Filler/Canon Fodder. I dont see why they wouldnt feel the need to have an updated 2410 version. I dont know if Id like to see it as a T6 ship, heck T5 may be too much. But it still be a nice T3-4 ship.
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    No, this is not what the ship was designed for ?
    jaguarskx wrote: »
    Meh... forget a carrier for the Miranda.

    I want a carrier for an Odyssey.

    Yo dawg i heard you liked carriers, so i put a carrier in your carrier so your carriers can carry carriers :D
  • edited March 2016
    This content has been removed.
  • mmps1mmps1 Member Posts: 381 Arc User
    No, this is not what the ship was designed for ?
    I want Jupiters that launch Jupiters which launch Jupiters...
    "Mr talks down to the peasants."
  • hanover2hanover2 Member Posts: 1,053 Arc User
    mmps1 wrote: »
    I want Jupiters that launch Jupiters which launch Jupiters...

    Reminds me of something I did when I was modding Starfleet Command III. I equipped shuttles with shuttle bays, so everything you launch would launch a few of its own, and those would launch some, and those would launch some....

    This is known as the "finish the mission quickly, before your infinite-spawning shuttles crash the game" mod.

    :D
  • grazyc2#7847 grazyc2 Member Posts: 1,988 Arc User
    Yes Jupiter Class should be able to launch Miranda's
    No because I think romulans and klingons should get the nice stuff. They need it the most!
    Yeah, thing is I would rather see more romulan and klingon content and them making roms a full faction.

    Agreed sir, I want that too romulans to be free having a free world without federation protection and interference from the klingons...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
  • grazyc2#7847 grazyc2 Member Posts: 1,988 Arc User
    Yes Jupiter Class should be able to launch Miranda's
    Alright back to topic peeps, I must say I had a good laugh over here, But in all seriousness why not launch Miranda's what so different about a Miranda or an Brell vessel ???
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
  • equinox976equinox976 Member Posts: 2,305 Arc User
    No, this is not what the ship was designed for ?
    kirk2390 wrote: »
    Alright back to topic peeps, I must say I had a good laugh over here, But in all seriousness why not launch Miranda's what so different about a Miranda or an Brell vessel ???

    I can't find any spec's on the Jupiter's max warp speed but I did find this about the Miranda in the tech manual:

    Cruising Velocity
    Warp 7.6
    Maximum Velocity
    Warp 8.8
    Emergency Velocity
    Warp 9.4 (12 Hours)


    So why would a Miranda need to be 'carried' anywhere? I could understand it flying alongside in a task force, but there is no feasible explanation to put it 'inside' another ship - that would just be a waste of space/resources surely?
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,016 Arc User
    kirk2390 wrote: »
    Alright back to topic peeps, I must say I had a good laugh over here, But in all seriousness why not launch Miranda's what so different about a Miranda or an Brell vessel ???

    Aside from the differences being laid out in this exact thread, a B'Rel doesn't need a carrier as well. No ship that's larger than a type-10 shuttle needs to be carried. The concept makes no sense in Star Trek's established rules, but that's a moot point as the game goes on for almost six years now with carriers.

    I'd say just replace "carrying" ships with "calling in" ships and exchange the "launch" animation (which looks ridiculous as it doesn't line up anyway) with a warp-in animation. Problem solved. Then the ships (maybe renamed "command ships") could "carry" even one larger cruisers as pet.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • equinox976equinox976 Member Posts: 2,305 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    No, this is not what the ship was designed for ?
    angrytarg wrote: »
    kirk2390 wrote: »
    Alright back to topic peeps, I must say I had a good laugh over here, But in all seriousness why not launch Miranda's what so different about a Miranda or an Brell vessel ???

    No ship that's larger than a type-10 shuttle needs to be carried. The concept makes no sense in Star Trek's established rules, but that's a moot point as the game goes on for almost six years now with carriers.
    ​​

    The only possible reason I can think of to do this is for resource reasons (perhaps smaller craft only have limited amounts of dilithium they are able to carry which limits the range they can travel). I can certainly see this being the case for very small warp capable vessels such as the Delta Flyer (which for a vessel of its size is ridiculously armed: 8 Phaser arrays; photonic missiles; photon torpedoes; pulse phased weapon system), but the Miranda is pretty much established as a 'self contained' command ship that can travel without such restrictions.

    The B'rel is a 'maybe' - its pretty small, but then so is the Bird of Prey, which is also been established as a self contained command ship which undertakes deep space missions without such restrictions. (Martok's and Dukat's BoP's for instance).
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    No, this is not what the ship was designed for ?
    angrytarg wrote: »
    kirk2390 wrote: »
    Alright back to topic peeps, I must say I had a good laugh over here, But in all seriousness why not launch Miranda's what so different about a Miranda or an Brell vessel ???

    Aside from the differences being laid out in this exact thread, a B'Rel doesn't need a carrier as well. No ship that's larger than a type-10 shuttle needs to be carried. The concept makes no sense in Star Trek's established rules, but that's a moot point as the game goes on for almost six years now with carriers.

    I'd say just replace "carrying" ships with "calling in" ships and exchange the "launch" animation (which looks ridiculous as it doesn't line up anyway) with a warp-in animation. Problem solved. Then the ships (maybe renamed "command ships") could "carry" even one larger cruisers as pet.​​
    They did however demonstrate that the warp drives in shuttles and tiny ship don't have the same range or speed as a full starship.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • equinox976equinox976 Member Posts: 2,305 Arc User
    No, this is not what the ship was designed for ?
    They did however demonstrate that the warp drives in shuttles and tiny ship don't have the same range or speed as a full starship.

    That's right. But from it's time on our screen's, do you not think it's pretty safe to say the Miranda is pretty much a fully fledged star ship, and not even close to a shuttle?
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,016 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    They did however demonstrate that the warp drives in shuttles and tiny ship don't have the same range or speed as a full starship.

    This is true, however the Defiant and Klingon BoPs demonstrated completely independent operation capability and warp speeds the same as any other larger ship. Also, the (as pointed out ridiculously designed) 'Delta Flyer' was also completely independent and capable of full warp travel. Runabouts are designed for longer independent operations but they don't go as fast as a star cruisers that's right, and the smaller shuttles are meant for short missions but they can go long-distance without support as well, it just takes a bit longer.

    So if time is essential the Runabout is the last vessel to which it makes sense to be carried in my opinion but even then when we had combined Runabout/Cruiser operations they always made the trip themselves.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • This content has been removed.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,016 Arc User
    skollulfr wrote: »
    carrier spaceship = mobile drydock.
    cryptic initially seeming to have treated them as science ships, misconception.

    That's becuse science vessels and carriers were part of the same medal, so to speak. Feds hat science vessels and Klingons had carriers, both 3/3 weapon ships, science heavy but Klingons got the pets whereas Feds got more variety in science magic (subsystem targeting, sensor analysis). But the faction exclusive gameplay didn't really work out as we all know.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • edited March 2016
    This content has been removed.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    No, this is not what the ship was designed for ?
    angrytarg wrote: »
    skollulfr wrote: »
    carrier spaceship = mobile drydock.
    cryptic initially seeming to have treated them as science ships, misconception.
    That's becuse science vessels and carriers were part of the same medal, so to speak. Feds hat science vessels and Klingons had carriers, both 3/3 weapon ships, science heavy but Klingons got the pets whereas Feds got more variety in science magic (subsystem targeting, sensor analysis). But the faction exclusive gameplay didn't really work out as we all know.​​
    Then there's the Fek ship. One of the oldest Z-store ships and it's a tac carrier.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,910 Arc User
    No, this is not what the ship was designed for ?
    I like others don't think we really need it, wish they would just make the Calisto better, but that is hard since the AI sucks in this game.
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • grazyc2#7847 grazyc2 Member Posts: 1,988 Arc User
    Yes Jupiter Class should be able to launch Miranda's
    angrytarg wrote: »
    kirk2390 wrote: »
    Alright back to topic peeps, I must say I had a good laugh over here, But in all seriousness why not launch Miranda's what so different about a Miranda or an Brell vessel ???

    Aside from the differences being laid out in this exact thread, a B'Rel doesn't need a carrier as well. No ship that's larger than a type-10 shuttle needs to be carried. The concept makes no sense in Star Trek's established rules, but that's a moot point as the game goes on for almost six years now with carriers.

    I'd say just replace "carrying" ships with "calling in" ships and exchange the "launch" animation (which looks ridiculous as it doesn't line up anyway) with a warp-in animation. Problem solved. Then the ships (maybe renamed "command ships") could "carry" even one larger cruisers as pet.​​

    They do not carry them because they need to carry them for travel they need them for fighting, a carrier is an science support craft that has a large computer to do science stuff with that they build hangers to launch some teeth at the enemy when needed, or pick up stuff in asteroids belts because the carrier is far to big to get in and maneuver they launch a pack of small craft to do that task, But STO is an pew pew game as most would state it thus they launch a pack off vessels with some firepower to protect there mother ship that's how it is...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
  • grazyc2#7847 grazyc2 Member Posts: 1,988 Arc User
    Yes Jupiter Class should be able to launch Miranda's
    skollulfr wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    That's becuse science vessels and carriers were part of the same medal, so to speak. Feds hat science vessels and Klingons had carriers, both 3/3 weapon ships, science heavy but Klingons got the pets whereas Feds got more variety in science magic (subsystem targeting, sensor analysis). But the faction exclusive gameplay didn't really work out as we all know.​​
    excusing it isnt refuting it. though they seem to be trying to address some of their conceptional issues even if player activity is low enough to be damaging.

    the point still stands however, about how a space based carrier would work as opposed to a naval carrier.
    trek itself has an example for this in ds9, when wormhole jesus and his crew went on a raiding mission in a jembug and couldnt fix its engines afterwords. a ship with expanded engineering facilities acting as a mobile repair platform is suddenly very useful there.

    the support craft systems in sto still need rubbed out & drawn again though. along with dealing with the actual dimensions of ships properly to avoid threads like this.

    Agreed the whole subject on SUPPORT Craft has to be redone, my own thoughts about an support craft or mother ship does not go into battle they stay out of range even cloaked and help the attacking fleets with repairs, strikes and even disturb enemy sensors so they can't aim at your ships. this way your team has a fighting change also you can't win this thing fighting with only support vessels.... but over the years update after update STO slowly moved away from the concept and made the support vessel stronger and more stand alone ships like Voyager. But to be honest I personally feel more for the support craft idea then a stand alone craft if your not trained for that...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
  • grazyc2#7847 grazyc2 Member Posts: 1,988 Arc User
    Yes Jupiter Class should be able to launch Miranda's
    A carrier is an slowly moving object an easy target for every firepower capable ship when sighted, To slow to out maneuver her foe's Not enough teeth to defend her self without support thus an easy target to destroy, destroy the Carrier and we might have an fighting change at this. This is the concept that a Carrier is and some people yelled and said Carriers carry to much support craft and the Devs reduced the number of craft carried by the carrier, I believe some PVP'rs complained about it back then. So Vo'quv had less Brell's to launch instead of 8 she only carried 2. That's where it began Vo'quv wasn't really an dreadnought anymore, people lost interest in the ship and left it for dead. So that's why I started this thread because a carrier need ships with teeth to protect her, it's a Carrier but also an Support craft for mine laying, Crafting and Repairing but they also are long relay vessels to send messages, disturb enemy vessels over an long distance. launch and send in a fleet to attack the enemy and when needed they don't have to go all the way back to Q'Nos but they can repair and refuel at the Support Craft with them. But thanks to the complaining off some people that support craft just do nothing they killed it. The plebes didn't know what to do with an support craft and those owning a support craft tried to go into battle and where baffled they where easy target to destroy... So yeah the concept Carrier CQ Support craft has been killed by STO Devs and Players.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
  • kapla5571kapla5571 Member Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    No, this is not what the ship was designed for ?
    Just for clarification the Vo'Quv carrier has 2 hangers, same as all full carriers.

    Each hanger can launch its assigned ship 2x, usually within 20-45 secs depending on Auxillary power.


    So a Vo'Quv with 2 - B'rel hangers can launch a total of 4 B'rels, since these are Frigate class ships. [1 per x 2 launches]

    A Vo'Quv with 2 - To'Duj hangers can launch a total of 12 To'Duj, since these are fighter class ships. [3 per x 2 launches]

    A Vo'Quv with 2 - Tachyon Drone hangers can launch a total of 8 - Tachyon Drones, since these are drones class. [2 per x 2 launches]


    All Frigate pets follow the same launching pattern.


    So launching 4 - Miranda Light cruisers , from the Jupiter's 2 hanger bays, would seem to be a bit excessive.
Sign In or Register to comment.