Will we ever get a new Cardassian faction that was being talked about when the Romulans came out? They could make the story similar to the Romulan Republic storyline in a sense that you're rebuilding the Cardassian Union, but instead of allying with the Federation or the Klingons, you could have a choice of building up the Cardassian Union as a democratic state like it is played out to be in the game and novels, or the writers could make a complete U-turn and let you side with the True Way.
Before they even make another playable faction, they should finish off the romulan faction, Kdf lacks some content aswell... With pve queues being so quiet which perhaps shows a massive drop in population would be another factor, polish off what they have now would be a better idea to be honest.
I personally like the idea of a "start at level 50" system for new races. Most of your character's life takes place in endgame anyway, and for some characters, such as Borg Cooperative captains, starting just after a certain point in the story (for Borg, after the Delta Quadrant is opened to the Alliance) is a lot more plausible than everybody starting in 2409.
I understand your logic, but here is the problem: At level 50, there is *NO* faction specific content. And without faction specific content, there is no point having different factions at all. So if they were going to start a new "faction" at level 50, they might as well just give whatever new ships that faction would have to the Feds/KDF and be done with it, because that would effectively be the same thing.
personally Id kick the idea back to level 40, then give em 10ish missions that would level them into the low 50s. Use these to explain how the new mini-faction comes into the "alliance" due to the looming Iconian threat. Have the series end with the pick your kdf/fed "partners" and head into the Delta arc, just skipping the first couple of plot missions in that arc.
Personally, before the add a new faction, full or otherwise, they need to flesh out content that is already in the game but gives us absolutely nothing to do...
Take Andoria.
I would like to see a storyline that ties to the aftermath of the Iconian War. An Iconian WMD goes off, causing the Underground Andorian capital city to be devastated with massive casualties. But in the aftermath, the Alliance rises to the occasion of rebuilding. So we could get something that works like a fleet holding, but is in fact open to everyone, We the Players could cooperate to help rebuild the Andorian capitol, and when it is completed after several stages over the course of an extended period, we would have a new, fully functional social zone that we could all look at and say, "I helped build that".
I would also like to see the New Romulus capitol city fleshed out to be something on the scale of Bajor. Let the New Romulan Republic storyline continue, with Romulan/Reman players working on the construction of the city. UFP and KDF support in the ecisting New Romulus ground zones would result in daily bonus resources for the construction. The end of the process would be a fully fleshed out CITY that becomes the new central hub for Romulan/Reman players, with the command center being a building that one can go into at Admiral levels. The city itself would provide all the stuff below that... And the Federation and Klingon embassies would also be buildings located on opposite sides of the city with their external architecture the same. The main gate of the city which currently leads to the Embassy would now lead to the city itself. Only those who have completed New Romulus reputation would be allowed into the city itself. Access to the Embassy would be via the transporter at the staging area or by beaming down from orbit.
There are so many things that are in this game in what could laughably be called "placeholder form". I would like to see these places fleshed out. But that's just me...
I love this dream you have but Cryptic seems to have an irrational phobia/hatred of actually fleshing out content. They much prefer rushing off to the next big bad and abandoning anything theyve put in game for 4-5yrs
Personally, before the add a new faction, full or otherwise, they need to flesh out content that is already in the game but gives us absolutely nothing to do...
Take Andoria.
The problem is, Cryptic is a business, not a charity. "Fleshing out" someplace like Andoria doesn't give them anything to advertise that will bring new people to the game, or get old players excited enough to come back. New factions means lots of new things to sell to new people. So, seeing as how Cryptic actually has to make money to keep the game running, it's no surprise they are going to focus on new expansions and factions rather than revisiting someplace like Andoria.
Personally, before the add a new faction, full or otherwise, they need to flesh out content that is already in the game but gives us absolutely nothing to do...
Take Andoria.
The problem is, Cryptic is a business, not a charity. "Fleshing out" someplace like Andoria doesn't give them anything to advertise that will bring new people to the game, or get old players excited enough to come back. New factions means lots of new things to sell to new people. So, seeing as how Cryptic actually has to make money to keep the game running, it's no surprise they are going to focus on new expansions and factions rather than revisiting someplace like Andoria.
Sorry but I call TRIBBLE.
A company worth any modicum of respect has a duty to BOTH sustain themselves through income AND give due diligence to content already in place. You're basically apologizing for and excusing the insidious concept of caring for nothing but new content to draw new people in while completely ignoring more seasoned players who will easily be replaced. By leaving current content stale/bugged/empty/boring/not fleshed out, but charging headlong in to new content and new purchasable content, they are annoying and pushing away people who have been here for a while, and justifying it with "it doesn't matter because a whole new crowd of naives will replace them, so on and so forth." This is wrong. They should care as much about what's already in place as they should bringing new in. Like I said, it's Due Diligence and it's a virtue. They don't need someone apologizing for their lack of it.
Though, I concede I am wasting my figurative breath, because the abandoning of existing content in favor of neverending addition of content, at the cost of current content's quality or even simple completeness, is a foundation and a tenant of F2P gaming in the first place...
You fail to explain why a new Andoria map, or more missions on Vulcan, what have you, are somehow not new content because they happen to add on to locations that already exist. That's like saying the Summer Resort wasn't new when it was introduced just because there was already an old Risa map. I'd say that's nonsense.
If you are responding to me, I never said adding new content to existing areas wasn't new content. However, what do you think makes a better advertisement?
A: hey, we just added some new missions to Andoria!
B: hey, we just added a new sector/faction!
While there are obviously *SOME* people who would prefer the "A", there are even *MORE* people who would prefer the "B". And Cryptic's goal as a business is to get the *MOST* return for their investment of resources.
Also, adding a new faction means lots of *SHIPS* that they get to *SELL* people. You know, actual *MONEY*. Adding new missions to Andoria doesn't actually give them anything to sell, since, they already promised that all mission content would be free to play.
Lastly, don't think that I'm *AGAINST* them revamping old areas, because I'm not. I'm simply explaining why that will never take priority over traditional new content releases.
You fail to explain why a new Andoria map, or more missions on Vulcan, what have you, are somehow not new content because they happen to add on to locations that already exist. That's like saying the Summer Resort wasn't new when it was introduced just because there was already an old Risa map. I'd say that's nonsense.
Don't get pedantic. You get the point of what I am saying. STO is notorious for sloppy content that is left bugged, barren and dry, because the concern is always the next content chunk. Vulcan and Andoria are PERFECT examples of this; look how conspicuously large and open they are, and yet how conspicuously unimportant and basically unnecessary they are. If memory serves, Vulcan only exists to pick up that one Undine-in-disguise in the very early part of the campaign. As for Andoria... I don't even know why that exists at all. I can't recall a reason to ever go there. Yet, both maps are expansive, indicating that there was an INTENT to make this aspect of the game more fleshed out, but it obviously got ABANDONED. Andoria is a major culprit. Vulcan map at least looks like it makes sense. Andoria as I recall looks like a massive mistake. Both Vulcan and Andoria are clear indicators, and certainly not the ONLY ones, that focus on fleshing out and making viable original and current content is not a priority whatsoever, because the only priority is "what new thing can we put on the C-Store/what new expansion is going to draw in more people to make more purchases on the C-Store?" Again, that's all well and good. But they do it to the total neglect of the product they already have. How long have some bugs persisted? There are bugs in this game that date back to day 1. They still exist because there's no Due Diligence. It's the exact same mindset. They don't want to maintain a game; they want an ATM machine.
They're on record saying the split loyalty / half faction thing with limited content is suboptimal compared to what would be ideal, which is three full factions. Both limitations in the engine and too few staff to handle additional content creation (and in making engine rewrites to accommodate additional full factions) are an issue preventing it from happening.
I have absolutely *NEVER* heard them blame the game engine as a cause for lack of faction content or something that would prevent them from adding future factions. I'm going to have to ask for a link. However, to be honest, I don't think there is any link... because I don't believe they actually said that.
The game engine cannot handle 3-way PvP...
I'm shocked you don't know this already, I thought it was common knowledge and I learned it on these very forums.
And what is your source for this? Who said the game engine couldn't handle it? You say you "learned" it on the forums, but unless you learned it from an actual dev, just because some random joe said it doesn't mean anything.
They're on record saying the split loyalty / half faction thing with limited content is suboptimal compared to what would be ideal, which is three full factions. Both limitations in the engine and too few staff to handle additional content creation (and in making engine rewrites to accommodate additional full factions) are an issue preventing it from happening.
I have absolutely *NEVER* heard them blame the game engine as a cause for lack of faction content or something that would prevent them from adding future factions. I'm going to have to ask for a link. However, to be honest, I don't think there is any link... because I don't believe they actually said that.
The game engine cannot handle 3-way PvP...
I'm shocked you don't know this already, I thought it was common knowledge and I learned it on these very forums.
And what is your source for this? Who said the game engine couldn't handle it? You say you "learned" it on the forums, but unless you learned it from an actual dev, just because some random joe said it doesn't mean anything.
Further, I find it hard to believe 3 factions is magically too much to handle anyway. That seems rather sloppy were it true.
There are bugs in this game that date back to day 1. They still exist because there's no Due Diligence. It's the exact same mindset. They don't want to maintain a game; they want an ATM machine.
Honestly, you seem to have a bipolar view of the situation. In your mind, its seems they either maintain the game(to your standard), or it's just an ATM machine. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground, in your view. However, life is not black and white, and neither is this game. Sure, they are a business. And sure, making money is their first priority. But that doesn't mean they don't fix bugs. Yes, there are some old ones, and I don't know the reasons why, but they have also fixed plenty over the years. So while your point is taken, and they could probably do a better job, that doesn't mean it's just an ATM machine either. Try looking somewhere between the two polar extremes you have painted and you'll be closer to reality.
There are bugs in this game that date back to day 1. They still exist because there's no Due Diligence. It's the exact same mindset. They don't want to maintain a game; they want an ATM machine.
Honestly, you seem to have a bipolar view of the situation. In your mind, its seems they either maintain the game(to your standard), or it's just an ATM machine. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground, in your view. However, life is not black and white, and neither is this game. Sure, they are a business. And sure, making money is their first priority. But that doesn't mean they don't fix bugs. Yes, there are some old ones, and I don't know the reasons why, but they have also fixed plenty over the years. So while your point is taken, and they could probably do a better job, that doesn't mean it's just an ATM machine either. Try looking somewhere between the two polar extremes you have painted and you'll be closer to reality.
There's no bipolar view in anything I said.
The comment "just an ATM machine" is inherent to the most basic principle of F2P gaming whether you like it or not.
There's nothing "bipolar" about expecting a company to put the same diligence in to maintaining (and no, not to "my" standard as if "my" standard is special and outside the bounds of normal or expected) current and original content that they would naturally put in to new content and profit driving. That's not "bipolar" at all and I'm mystified that you seem to think it's a strange concept.
As for not knowing the reasons why for not fixing the same bugs that have been around since release, the reason why is obvious and inherent to the F2P system; it doesn't make them money. Fixing bugs, depending on how entrenched the bug is, is a time resource, and time is money. If the bug is deemed "not worth it" or if the bug is entrenched in such a way that it can't be fixed with the wave of a wand, then they won't bother fixing it, because every second spent on that bug is a second they lost driving profit. You can argue with me till the end of time if you wish, but I am telling you how this works from a purely business perspective, and everything they do is a business move and a business move ONLY. So of course, you will say "well duh, they ARE a business and they have an interest in staying alive." Well of course they are and of course they do! But that doesn't preclude them from the Due Diligence I discussed earlier. Furthermore, the Powers That Be behind all this are smart enough to realize all of this themselves, which means the only reason why it is the way it is despite them being smart enough to know better is precisely because, as I mentioned, STO as a product is not a game, STO is an ATM machine.
That's not "bipolar" at all and I'm mystified that you seem to think it's a strange concept.
As I explained in my post, what I am referring to is your viewing the situation as either one extreme situation or another. Either they actually maintain their game, or it's purely an ATM machine. One extreme or the other, with no middle ground. That kind of thinking *is* bipolar.
That's not "bipolar" at all and I'm mystified that you seem to think it's a strange concept.
As I explained in my post, what I am referring to is your viewing the situation as either one extreme situation or another. Either they actually maintain their game, or it's purely an ATM machine. One extreme or the other, with no middle ground. That kind of thinking *is* bipolar.
It's circumstantial and it's the circumstance STO finds itself in. It is not being maintained properly (again, by any typical standard, not "my" standard), because Crpytic sees it as nothing but an ATM machine. It's not because those are the only two choices that exist. You're twisting my words. Anyway I said my piece on how I think the state of the game is, you do not agree and that is fine, I really can't go back and forth all night because I'm not changing your mind, nor are you changing mine. This is only going to end up with one of us insulting the other even if accidentally because inevitably one of us is going to claim we're right and the other is wrong. I'd rather avoid that. We don't agree on this topic which is great. It's gone as far as it needs to go. I'm not here to claim a victory over you.
Personally, before the add a new faction, full or otherwise, they need to flesh out content that is already in the game but gives us absolutely nothing to do...
Take Andoria.
The problem is, Cryptic is a business, not a charity. "Fleshing out" someplace like Andoria doesn't give them anything to advertise that will bring new people to the game, or get old players excited enough to come back. New factions means lots of new things to sell to new people. So, seeing as how Cryptic actually has to make money to keep the game running, it's no surprise they are going to focus on new expansions and factions rather than revisiting someplace like Andoria.
In less than five minutes I came up with the concept of rebuilding the capitol city of a Federation core world in the aftermath of devastation from a delayed Iconian WMD attack. You cannot tell me that Cryptic is incapable of coming up with similar concepts that could pretty much apply to any planet that is in the game but lacking existing content, and then acting on it.
It's not a matter of whether they can come up with a concept, it is what concept will get them the *MOST* return on investment. See my later post, as it expands on my point:
A: hey, we just added some new missions to Andoria!
B: hey, we just added a new sector/faction!
While there are obviously *SOME* people who would prefer the "A", there are even *MORE* people who would prefer the "B". And Cryptic's goal as a business is to get the *MOST* return for their investment of resources.
Also, adding a new faction means lots of *SHIPS* that they get to *SELL* people. You know, actual *MONEY*. Adding new missions to Andoria doesn't actually give them anything to sell, since, they already promised that all mission content would be free to play.
Lastly, don't think that I'm *AGAINST* them revamping old areas, because I'm not. I'm simply explaining why that will never take priority over traditional new content releases.
But hey... Why not wrap a new Cardassian mini-faction into what I am talking about...
That is a much more likely scenario. That accomplishes their *MAIN* goal of getting the most return on investment, while also accomplishing your goal of updating existing areas.
Comments
Before they even make another playable faction, they should finish off the romulan faction, Kdf lacks some content aswell... With pve queues being so quiet which perhaps shows a massive drop in population would be another factor, polish off what they have now would be a better idea to be honest.
personally Id kick the idea back to level 40, then give em 10ish missions that would level them into the low 50s. Use these to explain how the new mini-faction comes into the "alliance" due to the looming Iconian threat. Have the series end with the pick your kdf/fed "partners" and head into the Delta arc, just skipping the first couple of plot missions in that arc.
I love this dream you have but Cryptic seems to have an irrational phobia/hatred of actually fleshing out content. They much prefer rushing off to the next big bad and abandoning anything theyve put in game for 4-5yrs
The problem is, Cryptic is a business, not a charity. "Fleshing out" someplace like Andoria doesn't give them anything to advertise that will bring new people to the game, or get old players excited enough to come back. New factions means lots of new things to sell to new people. So, seeing as how Cryptic actually has to make money to keep the game running, it's no surprise they are going to focus on new expansions and factions rather than revisiting someplace like Andoria.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Sorry but I call TRIBBLE.
A company worth any modicum of respect has a duty to BOTH sustain themselves through income AND give due diligence to content already in place. You're basically apologizing for and excusing the insidious concept of caring for nothing but new content to draw new people in while completely ignoring more seasoned players who will easily be replaced. By leaving current content stale/bugged/empty/boring/not fleshed out, but charging headlong in to new content and new purchasable content, they are annoying and pushing away people who have been here for a while, and justifying it with "it doesn't matter because a whole new crowd of naives will replace them, so on and so forth." This is wrong. They should care as much about what's already in place as they should bringing new in. Like I said, it's Due Diligence and it's a virtue. They don't need someone apologizing for their lack of it.
Though, I concede I am wasting my figurative breath, because the abandoning of existing content in favor of neverending addition of content, at the cost of current content's quality or even simple completeness, is a foundation and a tenant of F2P gaming in the first place...
If you are responding to me, I never said adding new content to existing areas wasn't new content. However, what do you think makes a better advertisement?
A: hey, we just added some new missions to Andoria!
B: hey, we just added a new sector/faction!
While there are obviously *SOME* people who would prefer the "A", there are even *MORE* people who would prefer the "B". And Cryptic's goal as a business is to get the *MOST* return for their investment of resources.
Also, adding a new faction means lots of *SHIPS* that they get to *SELL* people. You know, actual *MONEY*. Adding new missions to Andoria doesn't actually give them anything to sell, since, they already promised that all mission content would be free to play.
Lastly, don't think that I'm *AGAINST* them revamping old areas, because I'm not. I'm simply explaining why that will never take priority over traditional new content releases.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Don't get pedantic. You get the point of what I am saying. STO is notorious for sloppy content that is left bugged, barren and dry, because the concern is always the next content chunk. Vulcan and Andoria are PERFECT examples of this; look how conspicuously large and open they are, and yet how conspicuously unimportant and basically unnecessary they are. If memory serves, Vulcan only exists to pick up that one Undine-in-disguise in the very early part of the campaign. As for Andoria... I don't even know why that exists at all. I can't recall a reason to ever go there. Yet, both maps are expansive, indicating that there was an INTENT to make this aspect of the game more fleshed out, but it obviously got ABANDONED. Andoria is a major culprit. Vulcan map at least looks like it makes sense. Andoria as I recall looks like a massive mistake. Both Vulcan and Andoria are clear indicators, and certainly not the ONLY ones, that focus on fleshing out and making viable original and current content is not a priority whatsoever, because the only priority is "what new thing can we put on the C-Store/what new expansion is going to draw in more people to make more purchases on the C-Store?" Again, that's all well and good. But they do it to the total neglect of the product they already have. How long have some bugs persisted? There are bugs in this game that date back to day 1. They still exist because there's no Due Diligence. It's the exact same mindset. They don't want to maintain a game; they want an ATM machine.
Which is why STO went to F2P in the first place.
And what is your source for this? Who said the game engine couldn't handle it? You say you "learned" it on the forums, but unless you learned it from an actual dev, just because some random joe said it doesn't mean anything.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Further, I find it hard to believe 3 factions is magically too much to handle anyway. That seems rather sloppy were it true.
Honestly, you seem to have a bipolar view of the situation. In your mind, its seems they either maintain the game(to your standard), or it's just an ATM machine. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground, in your view. However, life is not black and white, and neither is this game. Sure, they are a business. And sure, making money is their first priority. But that doesn't mean they don't fix bugs. Yes, there are some old ones, and I don't know the reasons why, but they have also fixed plenty over the years. So while your point is taken, and they could probably do a better job, that doesn't mean it's just an ATM machine either. Try looking somewhere between the two polar extremes you have painted and you'll be closer to reality.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
There's no bipolar view in anything I said.
The comment "just an ATM machine" is inherent to the most basic principle of F2P gaming whether you like it or not.
There's nothing "bipolar" about expecting a company to put the same diligence in to maintaining (and no, not to "my" standard as if "my" standard is special and outside the bounds of normal or expected) current and original content that they would naturally put in to new content and profit driving. That's not "bipolar" at all and I'm mystified that you seem to think it's a strange concept.
As for not knowing the reasons why for not fixing the same bugs that have been around since release, the reason why is obvious and inherent to the F2P system; it doesn't make them money. Fixing bugs, depending on how entrenched the bug is, is a time resource, and time is money. If the bug is deemed "not worth it" or if the bug is entrenched in such a way that it can't be fixed with the wave of a wand, then they won't bother fixing it, because every second spent on that bug is a second they lost driving profit. You can argue with me till the end of time if you wish, but I am telling you how this works from a purely business perspective, and everything they do is a business move and a business move ONLY. So of course, you will say "well duh, they ARE a business and they have an interest in staying alive." Well of course they are and of course they do! But that doesn't preclude them from the Due Diligence I discussed earlier. Furthermore, the Powers That Be behind all this are smart enough to realize all of this themselves, which means the only reason why it is the way it is despite them being smart enough to know better is precisely because, as I mentioned, STO as a product is not a game, STO is an ATM machine.
As I explained in my post, what I am referring to is your viewing the situation as either one extreme situation or another. Either they actually maintain their game, or it's purely an ATM machine. One extreme or the other, with no middle ground. That kind of thinking *is* bipolar.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
It's circumstantial and it's the circumstance STO finds itself in. It is not being maintained properly (again, by any typical standard, not "my" standard), because Crpytic sees it as nothing but an ATM machine. It's not because those are the only two choices that exist. You're twisting my words. Anyway I said my piece on how I think the state of the game is, you do not agree and that is fine, I really can't go back and forth all night because I'm not changing your mind, nor are you changing mine. This is only going to end up with one of us insulting the other even if accidentally because inevitably one of us is going to claim we're right and the other is wrong. I'd rather avoid that. We don't agree on this topic which is great. It's gone as far as it needs to go. I'm not here to claim a victory over you.
It's not a matter of whether they can come up with a concept, it is what concept will get them the *MOST* return on investment. See my later post, as it expands on my point:
Now, with that point in mind..
That is a much more likely scenario. That accomplishes their *MAIN* goal of getting the most return on investment, while also accomplishing your goal of updating existing areas.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
same circle jerk... same players in it... nothing new.... I want a refund! This movie blows