Patch with no notes?

stolok

The "patch notes" say absolutely nothing about any client-side fixes this time, just "back-end server updates", but we still have to download 480 megabytes? That's an awful lot of "nothing". What does it do?

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duncanidaho11

Technical stuff and maybe something on the back-end to prepare for the upcoming release of 11.5. It's pretty typical as we get closer to any big content drop so I say just relax and take it for what it is (part of someone else's job).

apulse

I know there are a few fixes on "Into the Breach", but I suppose the minor corrections don't include in the patch notes.

davefenestrator

At work we'll sometimes list "minor fixes and enhancements" or something similar.

Some changes are not worth explaining.

darrylhaines

You can't short cut the run at the beginning of the breech any more.....OF ALL THE BUGS TO FIX IN THE GAME YOU FIX THIS ONE!!!!!
It was the only thing that made the event bearable if you run lots of alts.

daveyny

I got Notes...



How many ya want?

usscapital

the patch notes said "backend server updates" , then why did it download 307mb to my system to patch 480mb of the game ?

davefenestrator

usscapital wrote: »

the patch notes said "backend server updates" , then why did it download 307mb to my system to patch 480mb of the game ?

Because reasons.

More seriously: as an example, if they improved server performance by changing how BFAW messages from the client are processed, that change could require having the client send the message differently.

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themartian

azrael605 wrote: »

darrylhaines wrote: »

You can't short cut the run at the beginning of the breech any more.....OF ALL THE BUGS TO FIX IN THE GAME YOU FIX THIS ONE!!!!!
It was the only thing that made the event bearable if you run lots of alts.

Excellent, keep out the lazy. I have 15 characters by the way.

I have lots of characters too and this bug was helping to make this needlessly grindy event bearable. There are countless bugs in this game, but this is the one they fix and they don't even have the guts to tell people.

zarato4218

themartian wrote: »

azrael605 wrote: »

darrylhaines wrote: »

You can't short cut the run at the beginning of the breech any more.....OF ALL THE BUGS TO FIX IN THE GAME YOU FIX THIS ONE!!!!!
It was the only thing that made the event bearable if you run lots of alts.

Excellent, keep out the lazy. I have 15 characters by the way.

I have lots of characters too and this bug was helping to make this needlessly grindy event bearable. There are countless bugs in this game, but this is the one they fix and they don't even have the guts to tell people.

Actually, Tacofangs mentioned it a few days ago on the forums, so many people already knew it was coming. (He even said "exploit while you can." ) And since the event is already about to hit the 14 day mark, its not like there is a lot more to go anyway.

bobsled624

stolok wrote: »

The "patch notes" say absolutely nothing about any client-side fixes this time, just "back-end server updates", but we still have to download 480 megabytes? That's an awful lot of "nothing". What does it do?

Often as a new season release nears, a lot of pre-patching and early build updates are sent through to the client through maintenance day so that each player doesn't have to download 10 to 15 GB for the season update. Data transmission costs a company money and in some instances, gradual pre-patching is better and more cost effective than doing it all on launch day. It also takes into account that not all customers/players have high-bandwidth connections that can download 10 to 15 GB on patch day.

themartian wrote: »

azrael605 wrote: »

darrylhaines wrote: »

You can't short cut the run at the beginning of the breech any more.....OF ALL THE BUGS TO FIX IN THE GAME YOU FIX THIS ONE!!!!!
It was the only thing that made the event bearable if you run lots of alts.

Excellent, keep out the lazy. I have 15 characters by the way.

I have lots of characters too and this bug was helping to make this needlessly grindy event bearable. There are countless bugs in this game, but this is the one they fix and they don't even have the guts to tell people.

This "shortcut" is called an exploit. Exploits are to be closed and the map was not functioning as intended, therefore it was closed.

zarato4218

To add to my above point, the quote I mentioned that revealed this fix was on the way, was on the first page of sirmayday's thread about the "~60 second trench run." in case anyone didn't see it before.

themartian

zarato4218 wrote: »

themartian wrote: »

azrael605 wrote: »

darrylhaines wrote: »

You can't short cut the run at the beginning of the breech any more.....OF ALL THE BUGS TO FIX IN THE GAME YOU FIX THIS ONE!!!!!
It was the only thing that made the event bearable if you run lots of alts.

Excellent, keep out the lazy. I have 15 characters by the way.

I have lots of characters too and this bug was helping to make this needlessly grindy event bearable. There are countless bugs in this game, but this is the one they fix and they don't even have the guts to tell people.

Actually, Tacofangs mentioned it a few days ago on the forums, so many people already knew it was coming. (He even said "exploit while you can." ) And since the event is already about to hit the 14 day mark, its not like there is a lot more to go anyway.

While I commend Taco's honesty, his mentioning it on the forums is not an official announcement from Cryptic. That's what patch notes are for. Not putting it in the patch notes brings them in to question. Every time they're accused of a stealth nerf to an item or power, players can point to this as evidence that Cryptic make changes without telling the players. Every time a patch note says it's just server updates, players can now wonder what else is getting "fixed".

But it does also bring us back to the larger issue. Bugs that benefit players get fixed with stunning alacrity, but anything else can some times take years without even being commented on by the developers.

davefenestrator

Even when a company has a bug database open for public viewing, patch notes will rarely list every fixed bug in an update.

Your scare quotes around "fixed" don't change the fact that it was a bug, and was fixed. It was not a stealth nerf so is not evidence that Cryptic intentionally nerfs behind our backs.

Of course you can change the meaning of "nerf" to include "bug fixes I don't like because the bug benefited me" but that is not the proper meaning.

seaofsorrows

usscapital wrote: »

the patch notes said "backend server updates" , then why did it download 307mb to my system to patch 480mb of the game ?

There could be any number of reasons. For example, if they made changes to the way certain powers or effects are handled on the server side, then it could require updates to client side files to properly interact with new functionality. There are plenty of reasons why server side changes could require updates to client side files. After things are changed on the server side, the client has to know how to interact with the changes.

In this case though, we know there was at least a change or two to 'The Breach.' Why those changes were not listed is unclear, but they clearly should have been.

zarato4218

themartian wrote: »

But it does also bring us back to the larger issue. Bugs that benefit players get fixed with stunning alacrity, but anything else can some times take years without even being commented on by the developers.

Well, that's pretty much what every developer does, so you can't really say Cryptic is doing anything out of the ordinary. The event was two thirds of the way over and people were exploting an unintended loophole. (I'm not saying if that is bad or good, there was an upside in it being quicker making alt grinding easier but there was also a downside for those who used the trench run to grind starship mastery points on alts; and I can see logic on both sides of that argument.) But again, it is standard practice these days to close loopholes quickly, for example just like how the last couple patches for Fallout 4 have patched just about every single caps, xp, or settlement material glitch for consoles (Even though its a single player game and most of those glitches did not harm saves, not to mention that PC players can still use the Dev console to add as much as they want) even though many frequently reported bugs have yet to be patched. (I'm glaring at you Vault 81. ) Or for older examples like how The Witcher 3 team patched the monster hunt XP glitch or the SWTOR team patched the various reselling items for more than you bought them for glitch. It can be irritating, I've been there and I understand it, but its a very common practice. So while annoying there is nothing shady or "stealth" about it. (Especially since it is common for any gameplay changes, which usually hit tribble first, to be discussed at length by those in the know (A group I do not claim to be a part of) on these forums for weeks before they actually hit holodeck or are in patch notes.) If something seems wrong or too good to be true... it is and you should expect it won't last long in any game not just STO; sad but true. So my philosophy is to simply enjoy it while you can and then let go when it ends.

Now, if you will all excuse me, I'll be getting back to endlessly scouring the Boston wasteland for lightbulbs, hotplates, and coffee cups... because my shack foundation castle on Spectacle Island needs a lighting system and I can't duplicate copper or ceramic shipments in the workbench anymore even though the bug that made them disappear last month dosen't look like its getting fixed before Automatron... sigh.

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groomofweird

I assume as the notes suggest, its just back end changes that are just plain boring and unimportant to us to merit mention beyond what they said.
With the breach, yes it was mentioned on here, I read the post. And honestly I don't see why "extended barrier ever so slightly" should really warrant the time taken to type it in the patch notes. Anyone who knowingly used it blatantly knew it was a booboo so should have expected it to be fixed sometime or another.
I run a fair few alts and am a few days behind now but its only a min or two extra without the exploit so its no major biggy really.
But then whilst I knew about (and benefitted from others using) the exploit I never actually did it myself.

nccmark

That "exploit" benefitted all players, wanted or not. AFKing harms the rest of the team while collecting rewards..

Which one is the real cheat?

meimeitoo

themartian wrote: »

While I commend Taco's honesty, his mentioning it on the forums is not an official announcement from Cryptic. That's what patch notes are for.

True. Nonetheless, if Taco speaks on it, you can simply bet it's the truth.

Not putting it in the patch notes brings them in to question. Every time they're accused of a stealth nerf to an item or power, players can point to this as evidence that Cryptic make changes without telling the players. Every time a patch note says it's just server updates, players can now wonder what else is getting "fixed".

But it does also bring us back to the larger issue. Bugs that benefit players get fixed with stunning alacrity, but anything else can some times take years without even being commented on by the developers.

Eh. I'd say the Breach thingy was a stealth-exploit, rather than a stealth-nerf. Seriously, no one is gonna miss that extra ~45 secs they shaved off the 'Star Wars' trench run. It was too minor an issue to make it to the notes, and too minor to ever have players be upset about it.

ishapza1

darrylhaines wrote: »

You can't short cut the run at the beginning of the breech any more.....OF ALL THE BUGS TO FIX IN THE GAME YOU FIX THIS ONE!!!!!
It was the only thing that made the event bearable if you run lots of alts.

I agree, of all the bugs in the game, this one, really? And in such a underhanded manner too, no notes, no mention, just a stealth nerf. This is why more players are leaving the game, the total lack of respect you show the playerbase. I mean really, where's the harm in a little shortcut, and if it totally offended someone's sensibilities, why not openly state: Hey, we're changing this for this reason. I am seriously starting to revise my opinions on the game, the devs and that prat @neverwintergod that keeps messing with the game exactly because of things like this.

davefenestrator

Yep, in order to justify OUTRAGE! we now redefine "nerf" to include fixing any bug that broke the mechanics in ways that someone liked.

nikeix

Man, I remember when people actually had a certain amount of trepidation that their rampant exploiting might get them banned... Good times.

meimeitoo

ishapza1 wrote: »

darrylhaines wrote: »

You can't short cut the run at the beginning of the breech any more.....OF ALL THE BUGS TO FIX IN THE GAME YOU FIX THIS ONE!!!!!
It was the only thing that made the event bearable if you run lots of alts.

I agree, of all the bugs in the game, this one, really? And in such a underhanded manner too, no notes, no mention, just a stealth nerf. This is why more players are leaving the game, the total lack of respect you show the playerbase. I mean really, where's the harm in a little shortcut, and if it totally offended someone's sensibilities, why not openly state: Hey, we're changing this for this reason. I am seriously starting to revise my opinions on the game, the devs and that prat @neverwintergod that keeps messing with the game exactly because of things like this.

O, FFS, man, if your entire game experience was hinging on that wee exploit, causing you to fabricate this tinfoil hat out of virtually nothing, then rue the day they actually fix something major! It was a tiny fix, to a tiny exploit, to a tiny facet of the game, for an Event that has but a tiny amount of space left to run.

The End.

nikeix

Its not a "stealth nerf", it's industry wide policy to not comment on shutting down exploits because it brings attention to ways the game might be further exploited in the future.

That diagram that pops up on your screen every single time you enter the instance makes it abundantly clear what's expected of you. That you found a crack in an invisible wall is not cleverness.

omegapaladin

nikeix wrote: »

Its not a "stealth nerf", it's industry wide policy to not comment on shutting down exploits because it brings attention to ways the game might be further exploited in the future.

That diagram that pops up on your screen every single time you enter the instance makes it abundantly clear what's expected of you. That you found a crack in an invisible wall is not cleverness.

Well, if they were fixing issues with the Breach, they could say "Fixing issues with The Breach" without specifying that it was closing an exploit.

It's simple laziness on their part.

nikeix

Wow, do the words "to not comment on" mean something different where you live?

Its not laziness. It's 100% deliberate.

ishapza1

meimeitoo wrote: »

ishapza1 wrote: »

darrylhaines wrote: »

You can't short cut the run at the beginning of the breech any more.....OF ALL THE BUGS TO FIX IN THE GAME YOU FIX THIS ONE!!!!!
It was the only thing that made the event bearable if you run lots of alts.

I agree, of all the bugs in the game, this one, really? And in such a underhanded manner too, no notes, no mention, just a stealth nerf. This is why more players are leaving the game, the total lack of respect you show the playerbase. I mean really, where's the harm in a little shortcut, and if it totally offended someone's sensibilities, why not openly state: Hey, we're changing this for this reason. I am seriously starting to revise my opinions on the game, the devs and that prat @neverwintergod that keeps messing with the game exactly because of things like this.

O, FFS, man, if your entire game experience was hinging on that wee exploit, causing you to fabricate this tinfoil hat out of virtually nothing, then rue the day they actually fix something major! It was a tiny fix, to a tiny exploit, to a tiny facet of the game, for an Event that has but a tiny amount of space left to run.

The End.

Clearly you have some issues with reading properly, the point was, is and will always be that they continually make small/med/large changes without informing the players. I did not fabricate anything, it's all fact . Just how many patches have ther been recently that showed next to nothing on notes for massive patches? What else was changed/fixed without players being informed? What will your response be next time when they change something you find integral without saying a word?

And as for that dunce rattling on about exploits, how in hell does shaving a few minutes off an already boring Stf make an exploit? Who was unjustly enriched, where is the unfair advantage that earmarks exploits? Figure out what is being discussed before throwing in your 2 cents.

Getting to the last prat, I never touted any cleverness - in fact, you seem to lack understanding of the meaning of that word. And while you're looking it up, referencing stealth might be a good idea too.

daveyny

I believe that the TOS says that They can change Anything They want, Anytime They want, and don't have to say boo to anybody about it.

Soooo.....

https://youtu.be/pl3vxEudif8