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BORT! What have you done to my SCIENCE!
pwstolemyname
Member Posts: 1,417 Arc User
Spent an hour on tribble tonight since we can finally copy our captains.
My Flow Cap builds no longer suck (This is not a good thing).
My Part Gen builds no longer rip things apart.
My Grav Gen builds no longer create new stars from the fleets of my enemies.
My Countermeasure and Subspace decompiler builds, have been dead for most of STOs life time now, didn't bother to test them.
Please tell me your just playing it cautious and planning to slowly tweek the science back up Bort.
BFaW is nice and all but I don't think I can stomach doing it every day. I need my science Bort. Give me back my science Bort. Waaaagh.
Ok I think I need some time to myself now. If any one wants me I will be in my room...
My Flow Cap builds no longer suck (This is not a good thing).
My Part Gen builds no longer rip things apart.
My Grav Gen builds no longer create new stars from the fleets of my enemies.
My Countermeasure and Subspace decompiler builds, have been dead for most of STOs life time now, didn't bother to test them.
Please tell me your just playing it cautious and planning to slowly tweek the science back up Bort.
BFaW is nice and all but I don't think I can stomach doing it every day. I need my science Bort. Give me back my science Bort. Waaaagh.
Ok I think I need some time to myself now. If any one wants me I will be in my room...
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Investing heavy in shields is a death sentence against anything Borg. They just squint and your shields are gone. That leaves you with a paper thin hull if you skimp on engineering to boost your shields for the science tree unlocks. I can't even train TBR3 any more. But there's good news for Viral Matrix III people. It unlocks 17 points into tactical. While tactical people have to spend 17 points in science to get BO3 (not that I think anyone even uses it any more). Why are science and engineering unlocks even on tactical? Why are tactical unlocks even on science and engineering?
Final tally for a sci captain: 14 Eng, 12 Sci, 20 Tac.
All of this!
Destabilizing Resonance Beam was taken out back and beat with a hunk of rebar. He is now in the hospital, missing teeth with a broken orbital bone and fractured skull. ATM Doctors don't think he will make it. Particle Emissions Torpedo plasma clouds were filled with argon gas as filler, the manufacturer is blaming some ferengi trader.
I would keep going, but nah.
Science is always getting the snot knocked out of it. It already takes a lot of work to get science to do good, but I guess they have always just want the entire game to be tactical escorts with beams, or (now) cannons.
Twilight, Particle Physicist that stole the ship.
Original Signup date: August 4, 2008
LTS since Pre-Order
Keep in mind drain and control skills can go much higher now then before thanks to the consolidation of skills. Probably 600-700 each.
1. FC build never sucked
2. Partgens were over the top and needed to be reduced
3. GG builds were just fine, maybe the range of the pull was to much
4. CM and SubD were not dead, people just did not know how to use them. However on tribble those things are alot stronger
Yes partgens were very powerful, but they required a highly specialized equipment and builds to get them to their best, and even then they are nowhere remotely as powerful as BFAW spam which quite frankly any monkey can throw together with half a thought.
Partgens were fine where they were, where they are.(on holodeck)
Lol, part gens were over the top? Compared to what? 100k dps escorts and cruisers.
Under ideal circumstances those BFAW spammers can even reach well beyond 200k dps.
Overkill much?
*the biggest eye roll you can possibly imagine*
The point being how is that considered out of control when it is much weaker than same tier escorts and cruisers.
Also, please stop with your anti-PG crusade. Like Drain builds, they were fine or even needed a buff. Specializing into Exotic Damage is a net DPS loss when compared to a more traditional weapons setup even in a Science ship.
It takes a lot of specialized equipment to make a Science build work. Right now, my Engineer's "canon" ship is catching up with my best Science builds with a much lower investment. If I went all beams and focused less on tanking it would probably already be on par or better.
The same goes for my torp ships. With the same captain, my pure torp ships are 20-30% better than my exotic damage builds.
The problem isn't FAW either. Nerfing FAW will only make it worse for Science ships due to their 3/3 layouts.
As it stands, going for either PG or flow builds will be a sacrifice in damage. The last thing either needs are nerfs.
As we discussed earlier, don't base your bias against DPS on advanced queues. Some of us do like playing elites too.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
If PartG needed a nerf, it didn't need gutted. I can't even break 10k total DPS in Japora on normal. My tactical captain however can sneeze and blow up groups of ships now.
My numbers match or exceed my Holodeck numbers. So you tell me Mr Beam Boat FAW Hero...
This is exactly what I was dreading. Barely two weeks after I finally got my PG build up to something like finished, at a huge expense in EC and Dil and Fleet Credits and almost 3 months of time. Now they nerf the living snot out of PG.
Maybe it's time to give SWTOR another try....
Could the "unexpected" loss of crit be related to either having a "lost" trait or possibly a bit of... confusion... in the translations between the old "regular" particle generator title and the new "exotic" particle generator title...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Yep copied over one of my sci captains she is kdf flying the paradox. Copied over the skills she uses and spent all of 12 points in Tactical, even with the new pet choices. If you want the pet passive AT FRACKING 20 POINTS TACTICAL you HAVE to GUT your FRACKING BUILD. That is if you actually know how the game works. Only stupid people and Tacticals in escort carriers will get this bonus. So not only have they nerfed science(per A LOT of testing by multiple people) they have also nerfed carriers for the most part. If this goes live even close to as is, I will be at at the "delete all toons and uninstall game" place. They have screwed over everyone but tactical officers/builds.
The pet buff never existed before though so you aren't supposed to lose anything if you don't get it. That said, you are right that it should have been placed earlier on the tree, or placed in a whole different tree altogether.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Science powers weren't meant for DPS builds. They weren't meant to rip cruisers to pieces through their shields. With the exception of FBP (which was never intended to be deadly), the damage sci powers dealt were intended to be very slight. Not 5-10k per TBR pulse!
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
You wanna help? Tell me your before (Holodeck) and after (Tribble) Skill Totals:
PartGen vs. EPG (this should be identical)
Grav Gens vs. Control Expertise
Flow Caps vs. Drain Expertise
There is undoubtedly a new "normal" of Skills for high-end players, which these abilities need to be tuned around. But before that can happen, that new "normal" needs to be found.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
As I already posted in another thread:
Edit: both with aux at 125 and identical gear, traits and points in prtg/EPG.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Hi @borticuscryptic, should we test these skills bare-bones (no traits that could possibly affect damage/drains) or should we look at totals up front (1:1 comparisons to full builds in Tribble/Holodeck)? Which one is more helpful to you?
Seeing another patch right now (628MB) but no release notes yet. Will post some numbers after the update.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
You restored my hope in Science.
LOL a Tac captain who wants sci to do nothing but heal him so he can Yell to the world "look at me, look at me, I am tactical hear me roar". The scream of "Nerf science" is so predictable from a tac captain its funny. Near as I can tell the only changes made so far have improving tac builds in mind.
I don't want your tooltip numbers for abilities, I want your new Skill totals that resulted from the updates to items, traits, set bonuses, etc.
Skills. Not abilities. The end results on tooltips don't help me - I want to know what the modifying factors are (Skills, and Skills from Equipment/Traits/etc), and how THOSE have changed from Holodeck.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Ahh, I see, thanks for clarification. When Tribble decides to let me in, I'll post the numbers.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
I don't think there is change in part gens builds outside of Aux scaling. Part gens is the one skill that only went up by 1 skill point since it was a one to one translation.
On Holodeck my leech drains 3.5 power, on Tribble it drains 2.2 power. This is with max Flow caps/Drain Expertise and four epic Mk XIV embassy flow cap consoles.
You're right, there should be no change. I'm including it as a precaution, in case part of the translation went awry.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
It gets worse the higher you go.
Flow 100 vs Drain 100 = 2 vs 1.5
Flow 200 vs Drain 200 = 3 vs 2
Flow 300 vs Drain 300 = 4 vs 2.5
Flow 400 vs Drain 400 = 5 vs 3
Flow 500 vs Drain 500 = 6 vs 4.5