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Log trash

eragon1392eragon1392 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
in Star Trek Online General Discussion
With todays patch cryptic has changed the log structure of sto. After every reboot, sto creates new logfiles with different names once per hour(up to 7). through this change sto generate a lot of datatrash in the folder. this make it way more difficult to select the logfile with programs like combatlog reader with an automated function. it would be good if this could be reversed.
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    hunteralpha84hunteralpha84 Member Posts: 524 Arc User
    Is this why combat reader didn't log my last combat log earlier?

    That sucks.
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
    well, a lot of people keep bitching about how parses are ruining the game because they only encourage the 'MOAR DPS!!!!' mentality that the game is currently sporting (certainly through absolutely no fault of the game mechanics or anything, no sir.../sarcasm)

    did you stop to think maybe this was done deliberately to discourage the use of parsers?​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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    eragon1392eragon1392 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    you have switch to the new file
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    Is this true?! If so, this is an incredibly stupid thing to have done!

    I sometimes wonder whether certain Devs do nothing but finding ways to try and sabotage their own game!?
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    fighter1789fighter1789 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    Already reead about that problem here earlier.

    I have just to say that this is really anoying and I don't understand why this has been changed.
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    fighter1789 wrote: »
    Already reead about that problem here earlier.

    I have just to say that this is really anoying and I don't understand why this has been changed.

    "Another thing is, that Cryptic changed something with STO’s CombatLog file. You have to manually select the new combatlog. It’s not anymore CombatLog.log, it’s now combatlog_date_time.log (e.g. “Combatlog_2016-02-25_18-00-00.Log”) and you have to select the newest one. We are investigating that and working on a fix. Please be patient."

    I bet they can come up with something to reconstruct the full name from something that takes a base path + base name + date. Or just use the 'Last Modified' file, LOL.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    k1060842k1060842 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    Why have they changed this?! Soo bloody annoying. DPS legue is the only thing keeping most players engaged and trying to mess with it seems stupid beyond comprehension. The combat readers are not going to be able to find new files.. since the date could be found finding the file number is totally dependant on how many logs you created that day. These logs are not even used in STO, at all! External readers are needed.. so why mess with it?! Speaking of days i've had a bad one and this really fecking annoyed me. Im sure u can tell :)
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    qziqzaqziqza Member Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    interesting that they mess around with the log file formatting and content during the new skill system testing. i'm guessing they are using this data themselves, for something that maybe requires reporting in set chunks, rather than an ever growing single log file.. i cant really see any point in changing the way the information is resourced if not. a heads up would have been nice, with maybe a courtesy post explaining why. but hey, that's cryptic for you eh.. we players are little more than a resource ourselves.​​
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    crypticspartan#0627 crypticspartan
    crypticspartan#0627
         Member Posts: 847 Cryptic Developer
    We are going to be adding a method to disable this in a future patch.
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    crypticspartan#0627 wrote: »
    We are going to be adding a method to disable this in a future patch.

    Thank you. :)

    I understand the rationale behind rotating logs and all; but I manually (via parser) purge my logs on start-up anyway; so the option is appreciated.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    hippiejonhippiejon Member Posts: 1,581 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Edited :

    Other comments not needed.
    I hope they fix this for the players to whom this is important.
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    jbmonroejbmonroe Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Is this true?! If so, this is an incredibly stupid thing to have done!

    I sometimes wonder whether certain Devs do nothing but finding ways to try and sabotage their own game!?

    Huh? By momentarily (and for all I care, permanently) breaking some 3rd-party log parsers, Cryptic is sabotaging its own game? When did maintaining a file-naming format and interior log format (should that ever need to change) become an obligation?
    boldly-watched.png
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    jbmonroe wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Is this true?! If so, this is an incredibly stupid thing to have done!

    I sometimes wonder whether certain Devs do nothing but finding ways to try and sabotage their own game!?

    Huh? By momentarily (and for all I care, permanently) breaking some 3rd-party log parsers, Cryptic is sabotaging its own game? When did maintaining a file-naming format and interior log format (should that ever need to change) become an obligation?

    Rather, when did breaking the log mechanism become a necessity?! :) Aka, what prompted someone to do this?! (Out of all the things they could have been working on) Like with the skill revamp, my Zen is always on "Don't fix it if it ain't broken."

    Anyway, it's all moot now, as the Dev already said they'll add an option to disable it (thus de facto acknowledging parsing is an actual thing in this game, and they kinda broke something ppl were using).
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    vidosciarrividosciarri Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    ok I am done, a couple of months ago I was thinking of not playing this game as it was quite repetitive and boring, so I decided I would chase dps for fun, spend a lot of time upgrading and researching and talking to other players and took my dps from 26 to 59, it was challenging and fun, now for some reason cryptic have decided to take away my ability to measure this, not being one to sit for hours doing omega particles I now have NO reason to play this game, NO reason to interact with other players, and no reason to stf and farm mats, so could you please answer why it was necessary to mess with the parsers? Or did you just not realize that would happen? I am off to spend my money elsewhere and I am not expecting anyone from cryptic to answer this post, I spent 3 weeks not being able to access my main ship as a result of a bug that had been declared fixed, now this is the straw for me, I am off to spend my cash on a game where the bugs are accidental and not put in by the Devs, watch all the other dpsers do the same
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    vidosciarrividosciarri Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    crypticspartan#0627 wrote: »
    We are going to be adding a method to disable this in a future patch.
    crypticspartan#0627 wrote: »
    We are going to be adding a method to disable this in a future patch.

    this year? next year? did you know you were wrecking the parsers when you decided to do this? was it a surprise? why did you do it? do you care?
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    vidosciarri wrote: »
    crypticspartan#0627 wrote: »
    We are going to be adding a method to disable this in a future patch.

    this year? next year? did you know you were wrecking the parsers when you decided to do this? was it a surprise? why did you do it? do you care?

    Rotating logs is a normal thing (especially on servers). So, I understand the rationale behind this change (long logs can cause lag on ppl with crappy machines). But parsers really need the data, so this was obviously not well thought-thru. But the way the Dev said it, I think he meant that the option to disable this rotation 'feature' will be implemented already before the next official Holodeck patch (or maybe a week later; not months or years, at least).
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    vidosciarrividosciarri Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    many things have been broken for years, why do you think this will receive prompt attention from people that do not implement well thought out changes? every single patch brings problems, do they not test them before they upload them, do any of the devs actually play this game?
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,513 Arc User
    Attacking a developer who took the time to answer a forum question is not OK.

    I don't work for Cryptic, but I am a lead software developer. No, we do not make changes just to ruin your life. Yes, there are reasons behind us making changes. Yes, we do think about the consequences of a change but can't always predict all of them in advance.

    I'd guess the log code needs to be updated often in order to be able to, y'know, log things. If a new thing is added, people expect that thing to show up in the logs. That doesn't happen through dark magic, it happens through developers.
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    davefenestrator wrote: »
    Attacking a developer who took the time to answer a forum question is not OK.

    Who was attacking the Dev?!
    I don't work for Cryptic, but I am a lead software developer. No, we do not make changes just to ruin your life. Yes, there are reasons behind us making changes. Yes, we do think about the consequences of a change but can't always predict all of them in advance.

    It doesn't take a true genius to realize that rotating logs may start to break parsers. :P This isn't higher math.
    If a new thing is added, people expect that thing to show up in the logs. That doesn't happen through dark magic, it happens through developers.

    A good Developer should, IMHO, also live by the Hippocratic Oath: "Above all, do not harm!" Aka, if you haven't tested it enough, or really haven't thought it thru yet, don't deploy!

    Also, I do not for the life of me get what 'If a new thing is added, people expect that thing to show up in the logs' has got anything to do with the meta change of how logs are generated now. *boggle*
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    qziqzaqziqza Member Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    crypticspartan#0627 wrote: »
    We are going to be adding a method to disable this in a future patch.

    cool beans, thx for the update​​
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    vidosciarrividosciarri Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    where did I attack that particular Dev? I was actually getting at the course this game is taking, the players pay the wages of the DEVs but it seems to be slanted to whats best for them and not the players, why do things suddenly have to be loged a lot when they were not before, do the Devs actually know that many many of their customers use parsers, I can imagine the conference meeting

    we want to change the log system"

    "that might ruin things for a lot of our customers"

    "who?"

    "you know the players the customers"

    "who?'............"sorry not ringing any bells here, as I was saying we need to change the file naming system"

    "shall we phase it in after letting the players/customers get their parsers updated or something?"

    "who???"
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    vidosciarrividosciarri Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    seems developers are very thin skinned, attack?
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,513 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    If you don't see asking someone "Do you care?" about causing a problem for users is an insult, I'm afraid you're mistaken. Especially when someone has just taken the time to explain things to you.
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    qziqzaqziqza Member Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    also for those screaming its broken.. IT ISN'T BROKEN!!

    its just not handling the data as it was. so as long as you are /combatlog 1 it will still be recording all the data, it will just be recording it to chronologically ordered log files. it will just mean that on some runs, you will need to wait till you complete, before being able to point your parser at the most recent file. at most, an extra few moments to pull your run up, and possibly not having any live data for a while as you are parsing, but that's no reason to get ones knackers in a twist now is it?​​
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    risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    Congratulations @vidosciarri

    5 forum posts and nothing but complaints and personal attacks. You truly are a wonderful member of this community.

    And agreed with what davefenestrator said. You should be happy a Dev takes the time to answer this. Most of them rather post on other sites and I'm beginning to understand why...
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    risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    qziqza wrote: »
    also for those screaming its broken.. IT ISN'T BROKEN!!

    its just not handling the data as it was. so as long as you are /combatlog 1 it will still be recording all the data, it will just be recording it to chronologically ordered log files. it will just mean that on your 1st run you will need to wait till you complete it, then point your parser at the most recent file. that may mean an extra few moments to pull your run up, and not having the data live as you are parsing, but that's no reason to get ones knackers in a twist now is it?​​

    For some people it apparantly is. Which is pretty sad of course.
    I mean, people even claim here that they're breaking their own game, while it has been pointed out that they have no obligation to allow third party software to do its thing.

    Edit: Don't expect too much reason when DPS is involved ;)
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    qziqzaqziqza Member Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    risian4 wrote: »
    qziqza wrote: »
    also for those screaming its broken.. IT ISN'T BROKEN!!

    its just not handling the data as it was. so as long as you are /combatlog 1 it will still be recording all the data, it will just be recording it to chronologically ordered log files. it will just mean that on your 1st run you will need to wait till you complete it, then point your parser at the most recent file. that may mean an extra few moments to pull your run up, and not having the data live as you are parsing, but that's no reason to get ones knackers in a twist now is it?

    For some people it apparantly is. Which is pretty sad of course.
    I mean, people even claim here that they're breaking their own game, while it has been pointed out that they have no obligation to allow third party software to do its thing.

    Edit: Don't expect too much reason when DPS is involved ;)

    there is much truth in that wee statement lol​​
    tYld1gu.gif?1
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    risian4 wrote: »
    For some people it apparantly is. Which is pretty sad of course.
    I mean, people even claim here that they're breaking their own game, while it has been pointed out that they have no obligation to allow third party software to do its thing.


    The CombatLog stuff isn't even officially supported. :P Doesn't mean one can't wonder as to why on Earth they broke it (yes, you can break something, even when you're not obligated to provide the service), full-well knowing this is going to affect all their parsers.

    Anyway, like I said, a Dev came out, to quickly say they realize it's apparently an issue for people, and that they will fix it shortly (with a disable option), for which I thanked him.

    Nothing to see here; please, move on.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    qziqza wrote: »
    risian4 wrote: »
    qziqza wrote: »
    also for those screaming its broken.. IT ISN'T BROKEN!!

    its just not handling the data as it was. so as long as you are /combatlog 1 it will still be recording all the data, it will just be recording it to chronologically ordered log files. it will just mean that on your 1st run you will need to wait till you complete it, then point your parser at the most recent file. that may mean an extra few moments to pull your run up, and not having the data live as you are parsing, but that's no reason to get ones knackers in a twist now is it?

    For some people it apparantly is. Which is pretty sad of course.
    I mean, people even claim here that they're breaking their own game, while it has been pointed out that they have no obligation to allow third party software to do its thing.

    Edit: Don't expect too much reason when DPS is involved ;)

    there is much truth in that wee statement lol​​


    Nah. Rather, especially when people want to parse now more than ever (to test the effects of new Tribble skill revamp), I'd say the log change came at a most in-opportune time.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    qziqza wrote: »
    risian4 wrote: »
    qziqza wrote: »
    also for those screaming its broken.. IT ISN'T BROKEN!!

    its just not handling the data as it was. so as long as you are /combatlog 1 it will still be recording all the data, it will just be recording it to chronologically ordered log files. it will just mean that on your 1st run you will need to wait till you complete it, then point your parser at the most recent file. that may mean an extra few moments to pull your run up, and not having the data live as you are parsing, but that's no reason to get ones knackers in a twist now is it?

    For some people it apparantly is. Which is pretty sad of course.
    I mean, people even claim here that they're breaking their own game, while it has been pointed out that they have no obligation to allow third party software to do its thing.

    Edit: Don't expect too much reason when DPS is involved ;)

    there is much truth in that wee statement lol​​


    Nah. Rather, especially when people want to parse now more than ever (to test the effects of new Tribble skill revamp), I'd say the log change came at a most in-opportune time.

    Hm yeah that's true. I hadn't considered that. Though it's still possible to compare builds, by checking tool tips, skill stats etc.
    While parses usually provide a more complete picture, I generally prefer to judge my own builds by checking how fast I can take down certain enemies.

    If you do it in a standardised environment like a Foundry mission, those few extra clicks for each parse shouldn't be really a problem anyway :)

This discussion has been closed.