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Am I the only one who would like a K'Vort?
sinn74
Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
As a....Raptor, maybe? I don't think it warrants the "brick battlecruiser" treatment, but it can't be as nimble as a BoP. I'm actually surprised they haven't used this as some kind of light battlecruiser/Raptor, at this point.
Although I know some don't like the "Bird of Prey looking cruiser" thing. I've always liked it.
Although I know some don't like the "Bird of Prey looking cruiser" thing. I've always liked it.
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Playable endgame B'Rel, which actually happened in the form of the B'Rel Retrofit in the C-Store.
Playable K'Vort. No luck at all.
I'd like to see and play with a K'Vort, but... yeah.
Why does none of this surprise me? ugh
While I understand this, how many Fed ships are a (very similar looking) saucer and 2 nacelles?
The scaling, perspectives makes the K'Vort vary in size. Sometimes it was the size to be expected of a light cruiser but bigger than the traditional B'Rel. Sometimes it looked like the size of a Galaxy-class and D'Deridex. This web page has a decent rundown on the varying size depictions.
Even the Yeager looks more like its own ship from a Voyager and a Maquis Raider than the K'Vort looks from a B'Rel.
B'Rel
K'Vort
If the size is different, and the wings are fixed, does that make it not identical?
If the same ship with one extra nacelle strapped to it is in game, why not the K'Vort?
Imagine if Cryptic actually created a new starship, say, "Advanced Tactical Destroyer". It's the Defiant mode. But at 4 times the length the current model. Wouldn't that seem like silly and lazy to you? Can you see that it might seem lazy and silly to some people?
If Cryptic created it? Yes. Not wanting something because of the reason it is canon? Not so much.
In fact, I'm all for anything that makes it easier for them to put more KDF ships in game, especially canon ones. Regardless of any reason why it was canon, canon it be, nonetheless.
The Yeager is an obvious cross of the Intrepid and the Maquis Raider. I could see a ship "inspired" by it in STO, but the actual model replicated? No, that would just look awkward.
A giant Bird of Prey? I could see that. But I would want it to look different from a B'Rel in more than just size. More like something that should have been if the budget was there back then.
I'd accept a T6 Hegh'ta in lieu of a K'vort. As far as I'm concerned the Hegh'ta is the next generation of K'vort anyway.
And if we could have a K'vort hull option, even better
T6 K'Vort
Type: BOP/Raider
Hull: 42k-50k For reference hull ranges for following T6 KDF ships at Fleet level/equivalent: T6 B'Rel 28k-36k, T6 Qib 44k-51k, T6 Mogh 47k-55k, T6 Negh'Var - STOWiki shows 57k. The K'Vort is a larger ship hull should show this but I will not put it in the same hull league as the KDF's Battlecruisers. The Qib is the lightest in hull for KDF Battlecruisers and I would not have the K'Vort have the exact same quality.
Shield Mod: 1.0 For reference, T6 B'Rel 0.88 and the KDF Battlecruisers sit at about 1.1.
Weapon Slots: 5 fwd, 2 aft Other BOPs are 4/2 setups. All KDF Battlecruisers are 4/4 except for the 5/3 Mogh.
BOFF Slots: Same as T6 B'Rel though a notion of T6 Norgh would be interesting but that's a different subject altogether
UNIV Cmdr
UNIV LtCmdr
UNIV LtCmdr
UNIV Lt
Device Slots: 3
Console Slots: ENG 3, SCI 4, TAC 4
K'Vort Handling - Unlike the B'Rels which have shown outstanding speed and handling in the shows and movies, the few times we *have* seen a K'Vort, they have handled similarly to other KDF Battlecruisers. The stats for T6 K'Vort would reflect this and the standard I'm using is the Vor'Cha which is in the middle of the pack in terms of handling for KDF Battlecruisers.
Turn Rate: 10 contrast T6 B'Rel 23
Impulse Mod: 0.15 contrast T6 B'Rel 0.20
Inertia: 30 contrast T6 B'Rel 80
Bonus Power: +15 Weapons Power, +5 Aux Power, same as T6 B'Rel
Abilities: Battle Cloak, no Cruiser Commands of course
Again, my take on the K'Vort is the idea that it would be a flexible, offensive machine that is larger, tougher than the other BOPs. The handling of the K'Vort would still be good as it matches that of the respected Vor'Cha. However, the lack of Cruiser Commands, weaker shield/hull mod than Battlecruisers, 3 ENG Console Slots would keep the K'Vort from stepping on the toes of the far hardier Battlecruisers. On the same token, the K'Vort will not have the awesome handling characteristics of the BOPs. It gets heavier armament, better hull and shield mod than other BOPs in compensation.
That looks a lot like the Matha Raptor.
I do like the idea of giving it 5 forward weapons though.
Matha Raptor doesn't have battle cloak, is MUCH lighter on the hull, and most importantly, does not have a Full Universal BOFF layout. A BOP with its Full Universal BOFF layout gives you immense freedom, flexibility to build what you want, with a compromise of course (-1 BOFF skill total, except for T5 Fleet Norgh but it pays for that with -1 console slot).
The Full Universal lets you plug and play vastly different builds. You can go traditional offense with my supposed K'Vort, and still pack the punch. Battle Cloaks, 5 fwd weaps, 4 TAC, 4 SCI consoles lets you be pretty hard hitting. Alternatively, you can make a Semi-Science Vessel out of the K'Vort. It has 4 SCI Console Slots to equip a good number of Embassy or Research Lab Consoles with, which is decent enough to turn the K'Vort into the Science role. Not as good as a true Science Vessel, but the BOP Full Universals let you do that if you want.
My T6 K'Vort idea is a ship of flexiblity, freedom, and compromises, something that the Birds of Prey have generally been about.
A Destroyer in this game is nothing more than an Escort ship with LtCmdr ENG. The "Destroyer" and other ship labels in this game doesn't apply to the Bird of Prey line because of the Full Universal BOFF layout.
I would have gone hardcore by making it an even heavier forward heavy weapon arrangement with 0 rear weapons, but what I proposed is radical enough.
Ahaha, that would be true canon for sure. Too bad that's never going to happen though. I would like to see a 5 fore 1 aft setup if the K'vort ever comes to fruition.
Correct, the Birds of Prey have traditionally been an "All Forward" armament setup in the shows and movies. But for BOPs to have that in STO, the other factions would scream bloody murder.
Any advantage that can't be surpassed fedside generally causes an uproar. Isn't that why battlecloak=paper hull? "Its not fair, why cant I do this with muh Starflleet captain!!!!!111eleventeen"
The "Raider" element is the last place where the KDF lineup can shine where others haven't.
1. There are already outstanding Escorts/Raptors in the T6 KDF lineup already, topped off by the Pilot Ship variants. Ever since those ships came out, no Escort/Raptor has come anywhere close to approaching their potent combination of speed, firepower, elusiveness, survivability. Then you have the Matha, where it's kind of forgotten about but is still a butcher of a ship. The Guramba is also now in T6 and has it's special Javelin Lance capability. All these ships also have either No Cloaks (i.e. Guramba) or Standard Cloaks (Raptors). The Escort/Raptor side of the house for the KDF is already crowded with capable ships. A K'Vort falling into the Escort/Raptor line would most certainly only be Standard Cloak and lose the Full Universal BOFF layout.
2. OTOH, the endgame "Raider" element of the KDF is the most expansive of the three playable factions. We have several T5 versions; Hegh'ta, Hoh'Sus, Norgh, Mirror Ki'Tang. Hegh'ta has no C-Store nor Fleet variant, nor T6 variant and M.Ki'Tang can't be upgraded, and at T6 we only have one, the Kor/B'Rel. We have room for growth in the one area where the KDF still holds an advantage over the other Factions. The Feds have 1, the much hated Aquarius that has no Battle Cloak. The Romulans are absolutely stacked in Battle Cloak-capable ships but none are Full Universal Ships, none have Raider Flanking Bonus... Not even the T'Varo.
3. All other Raiders in the game are failures. They lack the Full Universal BOFF layouts of the BOP. They also all lack any form of Cloak capability. All that is found only in the KDF Raiders/BOPs in one tidy package. Now, there actually have been some outstanding Raiders released outside the BOPs: The Breen Raider was excellent before T6 even existed. People flew that for a month or two than you NEVER see them anywhere, anymore, except for Plesh Brek Pets for Sarr Thelns and Breen Dreads. The Herald Baltim Raider is an outstanding Raider, T6 to top it off. Yet how many have you seen players fly them ever since the Herald Lockbox came out some time ago? Meanwhile, we have no shortage of Birds of Prey being flown in the KDF.
We have only one Bird-of-Prey and its fleet version. ONE. We should at least have another, preferably one that is a little different to the Kor.
I'm not saying it has to be a K'vort (and I think the biggest problem with it being a K'vort is Al Rivera doesn't think the K'vort should exist or something). But we have existing bird-of-prey variants, some of those models could be revisited and given new skins and repackaged and sold as T6 ships. The Kor is a pilot BoP. We should have at least intel and command BoP varieties.
An old idea I had was the concept of having a 'hangar' pet by-another-name where you can fly a heavy BoP like the Hegh'ta and you could have wing-men of BoPs fly with you. Or make it a console pet I guess, or something like the fleet support ability but instead of calling in one ship you call in a couple of BoPs.
Another idea which is in this thread is give a BoP a 5/1 weapons load out. Sets it apart from the Kor and every other BoP we've had to date.
Ning'tao comes with quad disruptors. A T6 version could come with a console that has a two piece bonus. I'm just spitballing ideas here.
Existing KDF BOP ships/skins that are at T5 or lower:
T1 C-Store B'Rotlh BOP - It's SUPPOSED to be usable on the T5 Fleet and both T6 versions of the B'Rel but it's still broken.
T2 QulDun BOP
T2 C-Store Qaw'Dun BOP - The very same BOPs that are the Vo'Quv's Elite BOP hangar units.
T3/T5 Norgh BOP
T3/T5 C-Store Ningtao BOP (part of T5 Fleet Norgh's possible skins)
T4 Ki'Tang BOP
T4 C-Store Ch'Tang BOP
T5 Hegh'ta BOP
T5 Hoh'Sus BOP
Existing KDF BOP skins at T6
T6 B'Rel/Kor BOP
There's a lot of potential growth here and stofsk makes a point about Specializations. The B'Rel/Kor already covers Pilot. We can have Intel, Command Spec BOPs. Command Spec would be deadly for a Torp Boat. Intel for a traditional vape BOP is another example. Or additional varieties such as:
T6 Norgh - Continues tradition of Full BOFF skill count of the T5 Fleet Norgh but -1 Console Slot. A T6 version would have Full 13 Universal BOFF skill slots but 10 instead of 11 Console Slots. Give her Command Spec access.
The Hoh'Sus needs a big makeover because it doesn't stand out from any of the other BOPs once T5U came out. Before T5U, it was the only BOP with 4 TAC Consoles, but with T5U, 4 TAC Console BOPs were common. I would say make a supposed T6 Hoh'Sus a heavy weapons oriented BOP, going from 4-2 weapons layout into 5-1, and alter the console layout to 2 ENG, 4 SCI, 5 TAC Consoles. Give her Intel Spec access.
Etc, etc. There's lots of freedom of growth with the low tier BOPs that have not transitioned into T6 or even T5. Their stats are so low as low tier ships that there is no precedent to follow, unlike a T5 ship going into T6.
But for packs including Cruisers I fear we'll always be stuck with more KDF Cruisers.