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Time and Tide: choosing your allies - description may contain spoilers on the new episode
risian4
Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
The Na'Kuhl representative and Noye make some good points: the Federation and its allies wiped out an entire species, and condemned another one to become refugees. They then want to preserve the timeline because it suits them well, while one might argue that the current timeline itself is a huge violation. It is kind of hypocritical.
Then again, the Tholian ambassador also said that they would would agressively enforce the Accords. Could the Na'Kuhl be responsible for a violation of the timeline against the Tholians and the Tholians' response thus be merely self-defense? So could it be possible that the Na'Kuhl themselves are to blame for what happened to their star?
What do you think? Would you side with Noye to undo the damage to the victims of the Federation's tampering with the timeline (if given the chance of course)? Would you support the Na'Kuhl? Both? Or would you defend the Accords? Or do we simply not have enough information yet?
Then again, the Tholian ambassador also said that they would would agressively enforce the Accords. Could the Na'Kuhl be responsible for a violation of the timeline against the Tholians and the Tholians' response thus be merely self-defense? So could it be possible that the Na'Kuhl themselves are to blame for what happened to their star?
What do you think? Would you side with Noye to undo the damage to the victims of the Federation's tampering with the timeline (if given the chance of course)? Would you support the Na'Kuhl? Both? Or would you defend the Accords? Or do we simply not have enough information yet?
Time and Tide: choosing your allies - description may contain spoilers on the new episode 65 votes
I would side with Noye, but not with the Na'kuhl
1%
1 vote
I would side with the Na'kuhl, but not with Noye
4%
3 votes
I would side with both Noye and the Na'kuhl
1%
1 vote
I would not side with Noye or the Na'kuhl and defend the Accords
36%
24 votes
We do not have enough information yet to make an informed choice
47%
31 votes
Other
7%
5 votes
0
Comments
Time travel is and will always be difficult to write perfectly, too many ways things can interact with each other or even itself. As for which timeline to support with the Accords, I take it as the way of thinking isn't "our timeline is best" so much as this is the timeline we have, and rather than risk something cataclysmic by doing something unpredictable in an attempt to fix something, we'd be better off staying with what we already know is at least stable. We've already seen what happens when we try to change something without fully understanding the consequences: a race was nearly wiped from existence. And as for why the Accords didn't reverse the effects of the above, it could quite easily be a self-fulfilling paradox (going back in time to fix the issue ends up destroying the Accords, resulting in nobody going back to fix it, etc.) or something that they didn't/couldn't detect in the 28th century. There's not enough information there.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
I don't think he'll be the same 'bad guy' as Annorax. Annorax was mostly correcting his own mistakes and wiping entire civilisations in the process. Noye is trying to undo the damage caused by the Federation and one could argue he's acting in self defense.
Great story btw so far. I really like it
Done, I thought it wouldn't hurt, but you are right.
Temporal Mechanics is a headache that you will never get rid of... ever
"Our history, our past, our present and our future is now forever changed. All we can do is preserve what is left and continue onwards. This is not a surrender nor defeat, we will continue the fight. This is our last hope, our last chance... for victory."
Vlasek D. Lasor - 4.19.3580
Star Trek Online: Foundry Storyline Series
But even if the Federation hadn't done anything the Iconians would have won and wiped out the galaxy so he seems to be missing the point in his anger. We did what had to be done to save the galaxy, and also his "wife" devised the plan herself!
I was going to include this in the OP, but decided against it. As the events in Butterfly turned out to be unnecessary and actually didn't play a role in 'defeating' the Iconians in the end.
But yeah, I agree his anger is somewhat... simple. We were at war and desperate, and it was not just the Federation who agreed to try it.
Well I also didn't include an option to shoot the Xindi who sounded a lot weirder. Or the Lukari who's basically falling in love with the player character at some point xD
I KNOW that if the Temporal War escalates, we'll be looking at a situation where the Na'khul enslave humanity under the TRIBBLE the Federation is never born and many other species suffer.
My Captain knows that the Temporal Accords are a good thing. It's not just about restricting our enemies but ourselves. A human could wish to go back and prevent the Xindi attack on Earth. That's six million lives saved. BUT that would prevent Archer from visiting the Delphic Expanse and the Sphere Builders would get to attack in our present possibly costing 600 million or more lives. We're not just locking in our good future, but locking in our bad outcomes too.
Ultimately this is a problem of Noye being a miserable lonely jerk in the new timeline and wanting avenge his lost life on us. Bringing back the Tuterians and his grand revenge scheme is just his way of rationalizing it and making it something great rather than selfish.
Noye is just as hypocritical seeking revenge that will condemn other species to death while trying to chastise someone else. He just wants to pic the victors of history vs the Temporal Accords that just wants to leave things as they are. The sad thing is he's doomed to fail just like Annorax was.
Time travel is an easy out. A way to skip the tough choices. You do something wrong, well just go back and change it. And change it and change it, until you get the outcome you want. If you get the outcome you want. Noye needs to learn Annorax's lesson. Ironically, Noye is flying around in the solution to his problem. The main issue is that it removes the solution to the Iconian War from the equation and we all get conquered by L'Mirren and her pissed off sister so the Tuterians are likely better off in subspace. That said, the Annorax is not the only way we can time travel.
But if he would set a temporal incursion targeting the timeship itself it would erase itself from time and he would get Clauda and their kid back. But he's too pissed off to see that.
That's why this problem is so infuriating. Did he not study the mission logs from the timeship? We weren't targeting the Tuterians. We were trying to deassimilate Romulus and somehow ended up giving the Borg an edge. I don't see him trying to get rid of the cube that destroyed that fleet. Instead of saving one world, we ended up with two dead ones. That's what happens when you ignore the law of equivalent exchange.
EVER.
I have a policy of scrapping any ship that is stupid enough to fire on my ship and crew for any reason.
However. Burying the Tox Uthat instead of reigniting their star first is the very first time I've felt rail-roaded to stupidity since Divide et Impera, which was apparently removed by temporal incursion instead of y'know, upgraded and given it's proper sequel. But it just made no sense, other than to establish why the Na'khul hate us. It really made no sense.
That said, the Na'khul don't seem to have the same hatred towards the Tholians as they do towards us, which I find asinine.
I kinda think the Na'kuhl are using the Feds as a scapegoat because they don't want to confront the Tholians.
My character Tsin'xing
well with the continues wars, my dahar masters may not have time to find a proper wife good to have a back up some where. gotta keep the house going. :P
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
As extrauniversal observers we know that the only reliable way to undo the temporal weapon's changes is to erase the weapon itself from history. That would also erase Midnight and the Iconians would win.
Noye seems to be, if anything, just insane. He reads from some file that in another timeline he was married, so he goes on some mad quest to change history...to what? Annorax at least remembered his wife, it made sense he still loved her and wanted to bring her back, it wasn't just something he'd read about on a computer.
As for the Na'kuhl, Kal Dano obviously broke the Temporal Accords. Ether he was trying to change the timeline by saving the star and failed, or he actually did change the timeline by not fixing the star after recovering the Tox Uthat. It's unfortunate the player doesn't get a say in that.
If the game gave me a chance to go back in time, fetch the Tox Uthat, figure out how to fix the star with it then take it back, I would gladly do it. It's not even changing history for us, since its our "present," even if the future people prefer one outcome or another. However, the Na'kuhl themselves are clearly not acting rational enough to be trusted with time travel or a star-manipulating device. Not in the 25th century and not in the 28th.
"Our history, our past, our present and our future is now forever changed. All we can do is preserve what is left and continue onwards. This is not a surrender nor defeat, we will continue the fight. This is our last hope, our last chance... for victory."
Vlasek D. Lasor - 4.19.3580
Star Trek Online: Foundry Storyline Series
Massively agree. Timetravel is BS
It would be entirely plausible the star was too far gone to be fixed by the device. Or Kal Dano could've been lying about not knowing the whole incident and intentionally let the star be destroyed because his history books said so. But he doesn't say anything about it and we can't ask him.
The audience not knowing the reason wouldn't be a problem if he'd just taken the device and jumped out in his timeship. But since the player goes with him and helps him hide the device, the story seems to be missing a part where he explains why we aren't fixing the star first.
BUT these guys (at least those in charge and selected to interact with other species) aren't helping and are so freaking antagonistic I can understand why everyone is unwilling to listen to them:
-first, they blame the Federation for having a device that can kill a sun. OK, very understandable and we botched our explanation so badly to make it look like we made a device dedicated to destroy stars.
-then, they don't want the Federation to come back. Understandable since it's one of their members that caused their planetary troubles, but a bit of a bad thinking to do as the alliance offered to help them, especially considering the grim situation. At least, accept the help but tell the Federation they won't forgive them.
-then, they say the Federation refused to help. Errr, hello? It offered the help, several times according to the blogs, and they declined aggressively. Then, bureaucracy put the situation into a deadlock, also due to the Na'kuhl' future actions into the past. Heck, according to the blogs, they even started taking refugees on Federation worlds like Trill, Bajor and Denobula. Yes, some members of the Federation seriously messed up but the Na'kuhl government definitely didn't help.
-even with time-travel, they don't/didn't/won't even try to rescue their world, they try/tried to destroy those they hold responsible (and not even the Tholians, unless they tried and failed).
I'd love to hear the point of an average Na'kuhl instead of the jerks we have right now.
For Noye... well:
-he's insane,
-was a colossal jerk before becoming insane, blames everyone for mistakes that are often his (like the scenarii of incursions and the failed incursion in Butterfly, even if he's the lead researcher),
-nearly kills a fellow Krenim for finding out what he was planning to do,
-nearly blows up a whole lab of Krenim (who are an endangered species following what happened to all their colonies),
-hijacks a highly dangerous starship able to modify timelines for his own use,
-he has a goatee,
-like the Na'kuhl, instead of trying to restore his people, he tries to destroy those he holds responsible.
I want him to get lost outside the timestream forever!
-3rd Commmandment of Chivalry
My character Tsin'xing