Yeah, bring it on. Once we get to 500, there is nowhere to go but down.
If cap was hit, it would only just stay there and available zen would eventually run out and it would just mean very VERY long waiting to get zen for dilithium offers at maximum price. At least, that's what would have happened if we put the cap somewhere like below current market price.
In either the last topic about the dilithium exchange rate or the one before that (they tend to follow up on each other quickly) it was properly explained why nobody benefits from 500-1 and why an average between 250-260 is most beneficial to both players and developers.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Yeah, bring it on. Once we get to 500, there is nowhere to go but down.
If cap was hit, it would only just stay there and available zen would eventually run out and it would just mean very VERY long waiting to get zen for dilithium offers at maximum price. At least, that's what would have happened if we put the cap somewhere like below current market price.
I suspect if it hit 500 then most of the casual players (those most likely to burn dil for zen) would drop out entirely. It's one of the major attractions of the game that it can be entirely free to play should you be willing to put the effort in but if that effort needs to be like having a second job it may push people away. I mean that would be half a year just to refine the dil alone (on a single alt).
Even those who like to go half n' half on c-store purchases would likely think twice.
Really an exchange rate that high only helps the rich whales pouring cash into the game, anyone else will be at a disadvantage, which may harm the game in the long run.
Am I the only one who remembers the quite recent Dil weekend? The prices are as they are because Dil is flooding the market at the moment, and some folks just have to spend it NOW NOW NOW, rather than waiting until the rate is something more reasonable. (I'm just sitting on mine for the nonce; I bought some Zen before the exchange went crazy, picked up a couple of playable races, and am just socking the rest away until things settle down.)
If Zen is "too expensive" for your dil-budgets, why are you buying? And why aren't you "organizing" the other Dil buyers into not "wasting" that much zen on each dil they get?
That's the thing with this "free market" economy junk that people don't truly get. The "sellers" don't drive the economy - all they can do is put their stuff on the market and attempt to sell it.
The other half are the buyers. If they don't like the price, they have the equally valid choice of not buying until the offered price is where they'd want it to be.
To me its too expensive, so I don't buy any of it. I hadn't bought any since it passed the 150-160 mark. After that I saw it was no longer worth what Dil I get to buy. Until then it goes to other purchases, and I'm stock piling some for when it does go down again. As now its just cheaper and easier to buy the Zen with $. So I just skip the exchange completely.
To me if a person is willing to buy it at that rate, let them.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I only play a few mins during the week and main play time is on weekend. So in all I'm doing great to get 4 hours worth all week. I'm either doing missions or Rep work. Either don't award enough Dil to hit the cap. The Doff don't offer much either, I was doing that in the past, still I never hit the cap with that added.
To me it can hit a million Dil for one Zen. You won't see me buying it. As long you have player buying it for that rate, it will keep on going up. As they will just keep buying. So at this time, players won't be getting my Dil. I'm stock piling it, using it on upgrades, and some Fleet projects.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
...Punish the players who are buying Zen and selling it for obscene amounts of dil, not the average Jane who's struggling to get enough dil to simply play the game...
I am one of those players. My Zen purchases are real life money which is paid directly to pwe/cryptic. At least according to my reciepts that is where it is going. People such as myself keep this game funded. And you want to punish me because the Zen exchange rate is climbing back to where it was when I started playing this game in 2012?
[Modded.]
Post edited by jodarkrider on
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Punish the players who are buying Zen and selling it for obscene amounts of dil, not the average Jane who's struggling to get enough dil to simply play the game.
That is messed up, for the ones who is buying it with $ then selling. The more at fault is the one who is buying it for the amount. The seller sets the price. And the person wants it can decide to buy it or not.
You really don't know economics.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Its simple really, if you disagree with the price of zen on the exchange for whatever your reasons, don't buy it. Don't go and pay 300 dil per zen if you think it is a bad deal.
If everyone who whines about it actually did that then those "evil greedy" sellers as some of you seem to be calling them would stop listing it at that high price as it would never sell.
It's the exact same on the loot exchange, you see all those items set at 500mil EC? They never sell at that so the seller must lower the price to get a sale. But if we all started paying that 500mil EC for them then the market will go that way and sellers will list at 500mil EC!!!
I don't want the exchange rate to go above around 250 max, but if it does I know not to buy, or to just accept the cost if I only need a few zen here or there.
I remember when the exchange rate was 300+ Dil to 1 Zen. For the person who buys Zen (with real money), it's a great market. For the person who is trying to earn Zen through grinding, it's not so great. I doubt it will ever hit 500, but I am certain will get go over 300. The best thing for a grinder to do is to stick with free ships and gear. Use the Dil you earn to upgrade. If you really want a special ship, grind for a Lockbox one. In the end, you really only need 1 good ship. Even the starshp traits that are available outside the C-Store are pretty good.
300? no way. got a small sum of dilithium i bet could make 500 zen if it was 150 less than where it is.
as it stands, i will let it build up until it comes down but if it never comes down then i wont bank any of it and leave it there. so one way or the other, right now the prices are so high that i refuse to go near that exchange at this time. player ran is okay, but now its getting to a point where 8k dilithium is not worth anything.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Since they gave us loads of ways to get dil, guys with tons of characters could finally cap em all if they tried. This oversaturated the market with dillithium, and dil to zen prices went up. For one reason or another, it seems a lot of people also figured (or just started bothering) with contraband farming and investing into dilithium on their alts as well, and admiralty gave a great new source of dilithium if you know how to do it (easy cap). Since now is that time when people expect certain Zen ships, they're hoarding Zen so they can buy them once said ships are released, further topping the price of zen by offering even more cheap dil, and besides usually this time of year Zen is expensive, if for nothing else for the fact some players get back in game to play between Xmas and Anny events, saturating market further with cheap dil. It just goes into circles. Currently, it's such a great idea to buy Zen and sell it for dilithium, you get loads of it.
Since Zen is so expensive atm, if they nerf admiralty energy credit drops (and I fully expect them to), give contraband marauding (or similar) to majority of players (ie Feds, hopefully not gonna happen) and further push the credit limit to 1 bill (they're already toying with this idea), thus producing further inflacy, there simply won't be ways to get ships as a F2Player in any decent amount of time (not counting in the Free ships, of course), since getting creds will be harder, fleet ship modules would jump to 30s maybe 40s mill (don't let me get started on what would be prices of lockbox/lobi ships), and Zen so expensive that with current prices, it would take 3 months for two chars caping to buy a T6 ship.
Does anyone know how much dil would have to be purchased it get the rate to fall?
too much i suspect. remember how many players there are and factor in multiple alts anything from 2 to 20+. you could be looking at a very high number in dilithium, more than anyone is willing to fork out to restore the balance over. even the numbers you see now, there could be thousands of characters that are still holding back waiting to saturate the market later.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
If exchange hits 500k cap then I propose that devs completely remove refining cap and make everyone happy
I would have no problem with even that prize if there is no refining cap, and I'm sure no one else would and people would be still buying dilithium, because they could get it easier that way without having to grind it.
FED ENG:FA Sirius Verax (USS Leviathan) , FED TAC (Delta): FA Adria Tyllex (USS Thunderblade) , ROM TAC:ADM Kill'ina (IRW Imperix Thrai) , KLING ENG (Delta):LT. GEN Ghol'Vaq Martok (IKS Qeh'Ral II) - 44th Fleet member SUPPORTING PLAYABLE CARDASSIAN AND DOMINION FACTIONS!
Use the Dil you earn to upgrade. If you really want a special ship, grind for a Lockbox one. In the end, you really only need 1 good ship.
Pretty sure that's accurate that it is more worth using Dil to get EC and then buy a lockbox or lobi ship. The T5's are great and come with free upgrades, and no need for fleet versions either. Only downside is only one toon can use them and their traits if it's a T6.
I remember them 300,400,500 per days... This, this'll be a fun and wild ride.
Maybe, but it will not be a ride in which i make purchases and i expect many casual players will feel the same way.
High exchange rates may favor those who use RL money, but it punishes player participation and therefor in the end it is bad for the game.
For myself i am hoping for the return of 150-1, but 200-230 is probably more realistic.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
It's a bit irrelevant for people to bring up exchange rates from days when there was really nothing to spend dilithium on.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
It's a bit irrelevant for people to bring up exchange rates from days when there was really nothing to spend dilithium on.
Yes.
I mean back when it was nice and low (i.e. sub-100 prices) there was no fleet starbase and no upgrade system. So even with no sinks to pour it into the price was still good and low.
The issue now is over-saturation of the market. There's way too much dilithium around (because earning it is a cake-walk once you get a decent run going) and not enough Zen is bought to exchange it for, hence the price goes up through the roof.
I really see only a few solutions now:
Trim down the dilithium rewards, but that just harms the new lower players who find it hard to get started earning it.
Stop releasing big shiny c-store toys that are making everyone want to buy zen with dilithium.
Add in some realistic dilithium sinks to soak up all that excess. Heck now would be a prime time to add in a crafting system to select mods on items but make it cost massive amounts of dilithium for the ability to do so. That would drain some people dry overnight.
I support reducing to 4000 but anything that says that kind of reduction either in earnings or refinement will be too unpopular. I've realized since the research lab and the trait unlocks barely moved the needle that the climb to 500 was a foregone conclusion. Best to make peace with it and take the crumbs.
Heck I bought every purple that Lt. Ferra had for me on 6 characters and traded in about 2 million maybe 2 month ago and now I am going over 10 million again - with Very little effort - basically taking a break til the anniversary. With so much supply I think we have to accept the fact that the real value of dilithium has been cut in half.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I call BS on the dilithium "saturation" theory. The biggest reason there's such a demand for Zen is because of the Zen-only T6 releases and the fact that you can't obtain one outside of either Zen purchase or Lockbox (which requires Zen to get keys).
The "value" of dilithium is subjective. It's not like the resource itself is either common nor rare in abundance. The market rate fluctuates because of demand- and the demand is mainly based on Dilithium to Zen conversion.
The rates don't go up "because the market is saturated" with Dilithium, but rather the demand for Zen in order to obtain what cannot be obtained without Zen.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
Considering the Last Chance Lock Box Event going on right now, which means that there will be a new lock box announced and released next week, and the recent Bonus Dilithium Weekend we had, the higher-than-normal dilithium exchange rates aren't too surprising. People are either buying Master Keys to open lock boxes now, or stockpiling them for next week.
Comments
If cap was hit, it would only just stay there and available zen would eventually run out and it would just mean very VERY long waiting to get zen for dilithium offers at maximum price. At least, that's what would have happened if we put the cap somewhere like below current market price.
Are you still rambling about that?
In either the last topic about the dilithium exchange rate or the one before that (they tend to follow up on each other quickly) it was properly explained why nobody benefits from 500-1 and why an average between 250-260 is most beneficial to both players and developers.
I suspect if it hit 500 then most of the casual players (those most likely to burn dil for zen) would drop out entirely. It's one of the major attractions of the game that it can be entirely free to play should you be willing to put the effort in but if that effort needs to be like having a second job it may push people away. I mean that would be half a year just to refine the dil alone (on a single alt).
Even those who like to go half n' half on c-store purchases would likely think twice.
Really an exchange rate that high only helps the rich whales pouring cash into the game, anyone else will be at a disadvantage, which may harm the game in the long run.
To me its too expensive, so I don't buy any of it. I hadn't bought any since it passed the 150-160 mark. After that I saw it was no longer worth what Dil I get to buy. Until then it goes to other purchases, and I'm stock piling some for when it does go down again. As now its just cheaper and easier to buy the Zen with $. So I just skip the exchange completely.
To me if a person is willing to buy it at that rate, let them.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
To me it can hit a million Dil for one Zen. You won't see me buying it. As long you have player buying it for that rate, it will keep on going up. As they will just keep buying. So at this time, players won't be getting my Dil. I'm stock piling it, using it on upgrades, and some Fleet projects.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I am one of those players. My Zen purchases are real life money which is paid directly to pwe/cryptic. At least according to my reciepts that is where it is going. People such as myself keep this game funded. And you want to punish me because the Zen exchange rate is climbing back to where it was when I started playing this game in 2012?
[Modded.]
That is messed up, for the ones who is buying it with $ then selling. The more at fault is the one who is buying it for the amount. The seller sets the price. And the person wants it can decide to buy it or not.
You really don't know economics.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
If everyone who whines about it actually did that then those "evil greedy" sellers as some of you seem to be calling them would stop listing it at that high price as it would never sell.
It's the exact same on the loot exchange, you see all those items set at 500mil EC? They never sell at that so the seller must lower the price to get a sale. But if we all started paying that 500mil EC for them then the market will go that way and sellers will list at 500mil EC!!!
I don't want the exchange rate to go above around 250 max, but if it does I know not to buy, or to just accept the cost if I only need a few zen here or there.
as it stands, i will let it build up until it comes down but if it never comes down then i wont bank any of it and leave it there. so one way or the other, right now the prices are so high that i refuse to go near that exchange at this time. player ran is okay, but now its getting to a point where 8k dilithium is not worth anything.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Since Zen is so expensive atm, if they nerf admiralty energy credit drops (and I fully expect them to), give contraband marauding (or similar) to majority of players (ie Feds, hopefully not gonna happen) and further push the credit limit to 1 bill (they're already toying with this idea), thus producing further inflacy, there simply won't be ways to get ships as a F2Player in any decent amount of time (not counting in the Free ships, of course), since getting creds will be harder, fleet ship modules would jump to 30s maybe 40s mill (don't let me get started on what would be prices of lockbox/lobi ships), and Zen so expensive that with current prices, it would take 3 months for two chars caping to buy a T6 ship.
Let's hope Zen price will drop.
too much i suspect. remember how many players there are and factor in multiple alts anything from 2 to 20+. you could be looking at a very high number in dilithium, more than anyone is willing to fork out to restore the balance over. even the numbers you see now, there could be thousands of characters that are still holding back waiting to saturate the market later.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I would have no problem with even that prize if there is no refining cap, and I'm sure no one else would and people would be still buying dilithium, because they could get it easier that way without having to grind it.
SUPPORTING PLAYABLE CARDASSIAN AND DOMINION FACTIONS!
Pretty sure that's accurate that it is more worth using Dil to get EC and then buy a lockbox or lobi ship. The T5's are great and come with free upgrades, and no need for fleet versions either. Only downside is only one toon can use them and their traits if it's a T6.
Maybe, but it will not be a ride in which i make purchases and i expect many casual players will feel the same way.
High exchange rates may favor those who use RL money, but it punishes player participation and therefor in the end it is bad for the game.
For myself i am hoping for the return of 150-1, but 200-230 is probably more realistic.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Yes.
I mean back when it was nice and low (i.e. sub-100 prices) there was no fleet starbase and no upgrade system. So even with no sinks to pour it into the price was still good and low.
The issue now is over-saturation of the market. There's way too much dilithium around (because earning it is a cake-walk once you get a decent run going) and not enough Zen is bought to exchange it for, hence the price goes up through the roof.
I really see only a few solutions now:
Until then it will continue to grow.
Are you trying to start a forum fire...
Heck I bought every purple that Lt. Ferra had for me on 6 characters and traded in about 2 million maybe 2 month ago and now I am going over 10 million again - with Very little effort - basically taking a break til the anniversary. With so much supply I think we have to accept the fact that the real value of dilithium has been cut in half.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The "value" of dilithium is subjective. It's not like the resource itself is either common nor rare in abundance. The market rate fluctuates because of demand- and the demand is mainly based on Dilithium to Zen conversion.
The rates don't go up "because the market is saturated" with Dilithium, but rather the demand for Zen in order to obtain what cannot be obtained without Zen.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.