You keep talking about these 'others in the zone'. In the instances I was in a few days ago when I created this thread, only I and one other player were capturing the last point. A dozen other players were camping. So there were no others helping to make the V-rex spawn. The problem is that serious, and that's what making the issue worse: literally no one wants to be the guy who's capturing the last point anymore.
Indeed the dyson zone has gone steadily down hill since certain changes were made. Overall alot of motivation for people to actually help was removed. perhaps with updates this will change.
It's not bad luck... it's a flawed design (or maybe not a flawed design, just a design that hasn't kept up with other developments in the game). That's why it needs to be fixed. I'm glad we can at least agree on that.
That's a point that can indeed be argued and one that I'm glad to see we agree on as far as outdated design goes.
I think its how you approached the situation that is causing some problems.
The way you were saying it may have come across as combative or something wasn't translating.
Despite my tone i've been calm the entire time I typed all of this up. I'm a person who would rather be blunt and to the point with people. you could indeed be right and it's a reason i'm not a huge fan of pure text communication when it can be avoided. perhaps something was indeed taken the wrong way.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
There is no goal post change at all. The boots can also be used to get you back from the far reaches of the battlezone to a single dino as well. Point being if you don't use them then you're at a disadvantage. That's not a goal post move, that's just a fact.
Yes, there is, you said
...if you have frosted boots, and know which way to go, you should be able to get at least one dino every time.
But I have seen differently where I wasn't able to even get one. Then you changed it to
If you decide not to use them then be prepared when you're not able to make it from dino to dino
So you changed it from one dino to more than one. And now you're back to saying one dino.
I know that people would be faster using the boots but I really don't think that Cryptic intended for the dino's to be taken down this fast and wanted people to use Frost boots to get around. I'm talking about how the map works and I don't think this is what Cryptic planned when they made it. Also why would you think that the boots would help you get there "from the far reaches" of the battle zone when sometimes being just one segment away doesn't leave enough time to get credit for hitting it?
No one is denying they're dying faster than they used to. Show me where I ever said they weren't.
And where did I say or imply that you had said that? I was just stating a fact.
The word entitlement has been around long than both of us have been alive.
It still is a buzz word that this forum and MMO forums in general seem to be using a lot lately.
It's intended for everyone in the zone at the time to be able to kill the dino. If you miss the dino because you're out elsewhere in the zone, then that's just your bad luck. I also challenge you to show me where I said the reward was only for the campers. It's not intended for just a specific bunch, but again, the ENTIRE zone, which would also include the campers. If you can make it to the dino in time, then cool, you get to benefit. If you don't then you're just out of luck. That's the way it goes currently.
Yes it's intended as you say, so if I am one segment away, and I have worked on the map capping points then I do feel that I am entitled to fight the dino and get the reward as Cryptic set it out to be. Also I didn't say you said that the reward was only for campers. Stop putting words in my mouth.
As you say again, how is the whole map intended to get the reward when they are being taken down so fast? It's not working as Cryptic planned. A few months ago, the way it used to be you could be many segments away and still get the reward, not so much now, so it has changed for the worse and Cryptic needs to change things. You seem to be picking points to argue against me when it seems that we mainly agree, but you were wrong when you said Frost Boots and planning would let you get to any dino, that is why I quoted that to tell you it was wrong and now you seem to be running away with anything I say to make an argument over it lol.
I'm not disagreeing that they could do something about it. What I am saying is people are overreacting and blowing certain things out of proportion.
I'm not sure they are though, if they aren't able to get the final reward, as Cryptic intended through no fault of their own then I think they have the right to voice their concerns.
Really now, you're seriously going to sit there and ask where you said you were owed something.
That right there is where you say you're entitled to something. If you don't make it then you're just out of luck, that's the way it goes. The reward at the end is intended for anyone in the zone that can get to the dinos. This also includes the campers as much as we don't like it at the moment.
Yet again you've moved the goal posts. You said
You are NOT owed a thing by anyone in the zone even if you capped the entire place solo
When did I say any player there owed me anything?! I'd like the thing to be changed by Cryptic, I don't want players waiting for me or not shooting the dino they are camping, I would just like to be able to get to the dino and get credit for killing it especially when I've spent time capping points, that is what Cryptic planned for the map, is it not?
My point was I feel I am entitled to the reward as that is how Cryptic intended, entitlement from the game mechanics not entitlement from the players.
You said
It's intended for everyone in the zone at the time to be able to kill the dino.
So if it's intended then shouldn't you feel entitlement to the way the map is meant to be played, but that is put out of your reach because the dinos are being taken down in such a short time that someone who is only 1/2 segments away is unable to play (and finish) the map as the way it was intended? It is broken when something like that happens and it needs changing, as I think we both agree.
If you miss out on a queues reward because something wasn't working as intended then I think most people would feel entitled to that reward.
I'm not gonna carry on arguing with you as we seem to be going around in circles and you're picking minor points in which to create an argument. In this post I have not implied you have said anything, I am just stating facts. Lets stop this merry-go-round eh?
Show you specifically where you said that those who do the work have no right to the reward? Ok, DKJK, on this very page, you have said "Entitlement mentality is when someone thinks they have a right to something, or a claim on something. In the instance I've used the term, people feel they have a claim to something when they don't."
If you really feel that what is happening is wrong, and that the zone needs an update, why do you continue to argue the point, trying to split hairs, in favor of the "nothing's wrong" side?
Also, if following someone around and killing their mobs is a disruption of play, how is killing a zone boss that only triggers after the area is cleared before those who clear the zone can get there any different? Both is keeping a player from getting rewards they are working towards, neither is working the content in a way intended by the Devs.
Dude i'm not going to keep arguing something with you I've already hashed out with others. I've already explained that I don't agree with certain lines of reasoning or perceived reason.
You can actually argue that something is wrong and should be changed to make things more fair, while at the same time not being against the rules, which is exactly what I did.
It's no different than spawning a world boss in WoW and getting beaten to that spawn location by other players in the zone. Unfortunately being a jerk isn't against the rules. It's a situation of "they can do it but should they do it," as the old conundrum goes. Does it suck, yes. Should it be changed, yes it should because it's outdated/bad design.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Not going to keep arguing? Do you promise? And is it really because you've said it all before, or because you asked me to show you where you said something, and I did?
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
This zone needs to be fixed. My suggestion is based on something I've read somewhere in another thread: place some forcefields around the silo's where the V-Rexes spawn to avoid them being instantly killed. Drop these forcefields after, say 1 minute, to give
So - using a forcefield to keep people an additional 25 M from the V-Rex spawn point would help?
lulz
What I'm getting from the OP is "V-Rexs die too fast, and I can't cap all 3 zones for Dil bonus"
It's best to work around in a circuit to end up at a capture point closest to the rex at the end. You should be able to get 2 rex's if you watch the bars as you're running to the 2nd. 3 is unlikely.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
But I have seen differently where I wasn't able to even get one. Then you changed it to
Once again, the operative word in my statement was, should. Should as in high probability of success but still possibility of failure. it's going to happen from time to time that you don't make it and I've never denied that.
So you changed it from one dino to more than one. And now you're back to saying one dino.
I know that people would be faster using the boots but I really don't think that Cryptic intended for the dino's to be taken down this fast and wanted people to use Frost boots to get around. I'm talking about how the map works and I don't think this is what Cryptic planned when they made it. Also why would you think that the boots would help you get there "from the far reaches" of the battle zone when sometimes being just one segment away doesn't leave enough time to get credit for hitting it?
Once more there is no goal post move and I will refer you to the operative word of should once again. It's a fact in a place like the ground battlezone as fast paced as it can be that if you're not using the frosted boots that 99% of the time, everyone else who is will get there before you do. Folks can get around quicker to places through the frosted boots. That's just a fact since they let you go faster. Why would the option to use the boots outside of Wonderlands be given if they weren't intended to have uses outside of ice skating? Again the dino dying super fast is part of several factors that I've already explained. You can say changes need to be made to update the content and that's a perfectly valid point. Until those changes are made however it's something we're going to have to deal with.
It still is a buzz word that this forum and MMO forums in general seem to be using a lot lately.
Call it what you will but in a great number of cases the word, entitlement, fits with the growing trends of gaming. Far too many people in gaming today want maximum reward for minimum effort. In the case of WoW being on example before I came to this game, people kept complaining about the Looking For Raid finder being still too difficult even after they watered it down to almost trivial levels. Folks still wanted to see the rewards raised to the point that it matched the higher levels of difficulty in game. Thus they wanted max reward with minimum effort. When you see alot of calls for "nerf this" and "nerf that" or "make it easier for us to get more of this", etc, all the time, it fits with the mentality. In some cases it's needed, in some it's not. You can call it a buzzword if you will but it makes the point no less valid.
Yes it's intended as you say, so if I am one segment away, and I have worked on the map capping points then I do feel that I am entitled to fight the dino and get the reward as Cryptic set it out to be. Also I didn't say you said that the reward was only for campers. Stop putting words in my mouth.
As you say again, how is the whole map intended to get the reward when they are being taken down so fast? It's not working as Cryptic planned. A few months ago, the way it used to be you could be many segments away and still get the reward, not so much now, so it has changed for the worse and Cryptic needs to change things. You seem to be picking points to argue against me when it seems that we mainly agree, but you were wrong when you said Frost Boots and planning would let you get to any dino, that is why I quoted that to tell you it was wrong and now you seem to be running away with anything I say to make an argument over it lol.
As I explained elsewhere, it's no different than spawning a world boss in WoW and getting beaten to the spawn by other folks who happened to be in the area. Does it suck, absolutely it does, but they don't break any rules by attacking the boss and killing it before you got there. Can it be argued that it's outdated design and should be changed, absolutely, and yes it should be changed. I've done nothing but call attention to what I saw as flawed logic behind wanting the changes.
I'm not sure they are though, if they aren't able to get the final reward, as Cryptic intended through no fault of their own then I think they have the right to voice their concerns.
I will refer you to the world boss example again. It's intended for anyone in the area to be able to smack the dino once it spawns. If you're beaten to the spawns then that sucks but is what the current system allows. We can absolutely say it should be changed, and it should. People absolutely have a right to voice their concerns, just as I have a right to voice my concerns if I see a problem with the logic behind, which is what I did. simply because something is intended to happen does not always mean that it will.
Once more no goal post move. Folks are not owed anything until they drop the dino. Yes it should be changed, that's not a debate. However until that happens this is what we have to deal with. It's no different than missing a world boss in other games.
So if it's intended then shouldn't you feel entitlement to the way the map is meant to be played, but that is put out of your reach because the dinos are being taken down in such a short time that someone who is only 1/2 segments away is unable to play (and finish) the map as the way it was intended? It is broken when something like that happens and it needs changing, as I think we both agree.
If you miss out on a queues reward because something wasn't working as intended then I think most people would feel entitled to that reward.
I'm not gonna carry on arguing with you as we seem to be going around in circles and you're picking minor points in which to create an argument. In this post I have not implied you have said anything, I am just stating facts. Lets stop this merry-go-round eh?
You can absolutely feel it's not fair that you missed out on the dino. However until you actually drop the dino, no you shouldn't feel entitled to a reward from the game. With that point you may disagree and that's cool. I just don't think I'm entitled to something until I actually kill it, even if the intent was for me to kill it but was unable to do so. In terms of queues vs bgs we're speaking of 2 completely different types of content. I think there should be a change, though I don't think our full reasoning is exactly the same. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree with certain points.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Not going to keep arguing? Do you promise? And is it really because you've said it all before, or because you asked me to show you where you said something, and I did?
If that's what you need to tell yourself then more power to you. Like I said, read what I've posted to everyone else. If I see flawed logic in something I will call attention to it. You're free to disagree with my assessment if you will. If you need to feel you've gotten 1 up on me this go around then feel free to believe it. Otherwise I refer you to my previous posts to other folks.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Who says PvP is dead go play Voth Battle zone. Very clever to make this a PvP zone where you having players running round or camping at silo's trying to grab as much Battle credits, marks and dil as we can like a bunch of Ferengi. All for 1 and all for me
I am in an instance which was 1 zone away from popping. I was capturing that point but on the map 2 zones in the Park were failing and 2 in the Outskirts. I couldn't get to all 4 but the 5 campers at the City silo could have. But no so instead of that one point it became 3 points then like a fool i'm trying to pop the zone and other points in other areas start failing so back up to 1 point but can't be everywhere. No help from silo campers. So a map that could have popped within 5 mins turned into 45 mins extra so far as i'm the only Jonny running round capturing points. City silo failed campers must have got bored sitting round twiddling thumbs and changed instance or left.
I said you should be able to make it, as in no guarantee but very high probability of success. Again no post move.
My point was claiming to get to thedino (in your area) and then it being changed to multiple dinos.
All the planning in the world as well as Frosted boots would not have gotten people there in time to get credit (because of how fast they are sometimes being taken down). So my point still stands.
Again the dino dying super fast is part of several factors that I've already explained.
Yes, I know, but the thread is about people not being able to get the reward because the campers are doing so much damage to it so quickly by laying mines or whatever. The dino is dieing so quick because of other factors, not just because of players having more power in the instances that we're talking about.
Call it what you will but in a great number of cases the word, entitlement, fits with the growing trends of gaming. Far too many people in gaming today want maximum reward for minimum effort.
I agree but in a hell of a lot of cases it is used to close down the argument in a way as to say "you're just acting selfish so your argument isn't valid". (I'm not saying you are doing this I just think you're using it in the wrong context).
As I explained elsewhere, it's no different than spawning a world boss in WoW and getting beaten to the spawn by other folks who happened to be in the area. Does it suck, absolutely it does, but they don't break any rules by attacking the boss and killing it before you got there.
I am not saying these people are breaking the rules and I agree its a jerk thing to do, I want Cryptic to change some things in the map so the people who have worked on the map can get the big reward at the end.
...It's intended for anyone in the area to be able to smack the dino once it spawns. If you're beaten to the spawns then that sucks
This is where I think you are wrong. "Beaten to the spawns" implies something like the other players are running faster than you. They are not, they are sitting there waiting. Boots and planning will not allow you to get there quicker than them and if they melt the dino down in mere seconds then that is out of your hands. It is not what Cryptic intended to happen on the map.
Once more no goal post move. Folks are not owed anything until they drop the dino. Yes it should be changed, that's not a debate. However until that happens this is what we have to deal with. It's no different than missing a world boss in other games.
My point was that you wrongly tried to claim I thought the players owed me something when I had said that I feel entitled because of how the map was meant to be played, and the reward I was meant to get from that, there is a difference, so my point still stands. It is not a matter of me being too slow to get there, it is a matter of however fast I travel there I will not be able to get credit for the kill.
When Cryptic were planning this map I'm assuming that they planned on the people working on the capping to actually have a excellent chance of getting to a dino and getting credit for it. I don't think they intended for it to be a very slim chance (which is what is happening now in these occasions).
You can absolutely feel it's not fair that you missed out on the dino. However until you actually drop the dino, no you shouldn't feel entitled to a reward from the game.
In your opinion
With that point you may disagree and that's cool. I just don't think I'm entitled to something until I actually kill it, even if the intent was for me to kill it but was unable to do so. In terms of queues vs bgs we're speaking of 2 completely different types of content. I think there should be a change, though I don't think our full reasoning is exactly the same. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree with certain points.
I think (maybe, I don't assume to know your thinking ) our disagreement comes from the fact that you think you would be taking something away from the other players whereas I think the map needs changing, not to hinder the campers but to reward the players who work on the capping as I assume that is what Cryptic wanted (because I don't think they planned on the dinos getting taken out so quickly).
As camping is a real problem, I agree with whoever said that you should be rewarded based on how many zones you capture. Every time you capture a zone, you get a point. The more points you acquire, the more of a dilithium payout you get in the end. If you leech by camping out at the dino sites, you get no points and at the most 480 dilithium for all three dinos combined. Seems fair to me. The players that do the bulk of the work get the huge payout. The leeches get the bare minimum.
My Foundry Mission--Name: Falling Star | Mission ID: HQIH36HAW | Faction: FED
That's if you are there killing the V-Rexs for the Dilithium. I am there for the Voth Cybernetic Implants. If I get some extra Dilithium then ok. If I am actively using a character I can usually be sitting on a stockpile of 50 to over 120 days of Unrefined so some extra is not that big a deal.
I have lately been killing one V-Rex and end up staying with the corpse; and that is not out of respect for the mighty and abused creature. I have found that in the times that I started to run for the next, I may be able to get there in time to join that battle, but lately the other V-Rexs go down so fast that I am en route when the other two go down and I ended up with no Implants at all (or maybe no awards at all).
Can people still scam the system by tagging one and moving on to the next, increasing their Dilithium payout? I thought they changes that somewhat during a Patch. Probably the same lowlifes that swoop through to steal all the Command Credits you worked for. Or take the Deferi Civilian you are standing next to killing off the Borg Assimilators, or the Deferi Memento, or well you get the point.
I mean you may be able to use a Tier system to give out rewards like they do in the Undine and Terran Space Battlezones based upon participation level. But certainly not the way they do that with the Terran Counter-attack at the end of the Base killing cycle. They must gear that to hand out the Tier IV Rewards to the DPS Club or something. I don't know how many times I have participated in those battles, shooting up and blowing up a decent amount of stuff and have thrown GWs to bunch some up through the entire five minutes and still ended up with a Tier I Reward.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
As an aside, has anyone ever tested just how much damage you have to do to a dino to count as having participated?
Is it even theoretically possible for a full instance of 15 players to all get credit for killing a dino together under the current rules? Or in other words, if 15 people were to arrive at the dino together and do equal amount of damage (1/15th of its HP, 6.666%), would they qualify for the reward or not?
As an aside, has anyone ever tested just how much damage you have to do to a dino to count as having participated?
Is it even theoretically possible for a full instance of 15 players to all get credit for killing a dino together under the current rules? Or in other words, if 15 people were to arrive at the dino together and do equal amount of damage (1/15th of its HP, 6.666%), would they qualify for the reward or not?
That is a good question as until i changed all my science officers to a tr-116b rifle i would quite often find pounding the V-rex 15-25 times with shots from a high density/split beam or pulsewave and twice with exothermic didn't always register a tag as it was mainly shield damage. I'm pretty sure shield damage isn't calculated. Anyone able to confirm this thought that shield damage doesn't register a tag.
As an aside, has anyone ever tested just how much damage you have to do to a dino to count as having participated?
Is it even theoretically possible for a full instance of 15 players to all get credit for killing a dino together under the current rules? Or in other words, if 15 people were to arrive at the dino together and do equal amount of damage (1/15th of its HP, 6.666%), would they qualify for the reward or not?
You only need to deal 1% of the dino's health to him to get credit for the kill.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
That's if you are there killing the V-Rexs for the Dilithium. I am there for the Voth Cybernetic Implants. If I get some extra Dilithium then ok. If I am actively using a character I can usually be sitting on a stockpile of 50 to over 120 days of Unrefined so some extra is not that big a deal.
I have lately been killing one V-Rex and end up staying with the corpse; and that is not out of respect for the mighty and abused creature. I have found that in the times that I started to run for the next, I may be able to get there in time to join that battle, but lately the other V-Rexs go down so fast that I am en route when the other two go down and I ended up with no Implants at all (or maybe no awards at all).
If a points system were put in place to discourage campers, this could have the additional benefit of reducing the number of people who show up for the dinos, which would give players like you a better chance at earning the implants. But I guess we'll never know for sure if we don't try.
My Foundry Mission--Name: Falling Star | Mission ID: HQIH36HAW | Faction: FED
As an aside, has anyone ever tested just how much damage you have to do to a dino to count as having participated?
Is it even theoretically possible for a full instance of 15 players to all get credit for killing a dino together under the current rules? Or in other words, if 15 people were to arrive at the dino together and do equal amount of damage (1/15th of its HP, 6.666%), would they qualify for the reward or not?
You only need to deal 1% of the dino's health to him to get credit for the kill.
As an aside, has anyone ever tested just how much damage you have to do to a dino to count as having participated?
Is it even theoretically possible for a full instance of 15 players to all get credit for killing a dino together under the current rules? Or in other words, if 15 people were to arrive at the dino together and do equal amount of damage (1/15th of its HP, 6.666%), would they qualify for the reward or not?
That is a good question as until i changed all my science officers to a tr-116b rifle i would quite often find pounding the V-rex 15-25 times with shots from a high density/split beam or pulsewave and twice with exothermic didn't always register a tag as it was mainly shield damage. I'm pretty sure shield damage isn't calculated. Anyone able to confirm this thought that shield damage doesn't register a tag.
Stick with your tr when fighting the rexes. reason being it deals the damage directly to their health instead of to their shield.
As an aside, has anyone ever tested just how much damage you have to do to a dino to count as having participated?
Is it even theoretically possible for a full instance of 15 players to all get credit for killing a dino together under the current rules? Or in other words, if 15 people were to arrive at the dino together and do equal amount of damage (1/15th of its HP, 6.666%), would they qualify for the reward or not?
You only need to deal 1% of the dino's health to him to get credit for the kill.
Source?
It was in one of the old patches wayyy back when they did the original change.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Comments
Indeed the dyson zone has gone steadily down hill since certain changes were made. Overall alot of motivation for people to actually help was removed. perhaps with updates this will change.
That's a point that can indeed be argued and one that I'm glad to see we agree on as far as outdated design goes.
Despite my tone i've been calm the entire time I typed all of this up. I'm a person who would rather be blunt and to the point with people. you could indeed be right and it's a reason i'm not a huge fan of pure text communication when it can be avoided. perhaps something was indeed taken the wrong way.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Yes, there is, you said
But I have seen differently where I wasn't able to even get one. Then you changed it to
So you changed it from one dino to more than one. And now you're back to saying one dino.
I know that people would be faster using the boots but I really don't think that Cryptic intended for the dino's to be taken down this fast and wanted people to use Frost boots to get around. I'm talking about how the map works and I don't think this is what Cryptic planned when they made it. Also why would you think that the boots would help you get there "from the far reaches" of the battle zone when sometimes being just one segment away doesn't leave enough time to get credit for hitting it?
And where did I say or imply that you had said that? I was just stating a fact.
It still is a buzz word that this forum and MMO forums in general seem to be using a lot lately.
Yes it's intended as you say, so if I am one segment away, and I have worked on the map capping points then I do feel that I am entitled to fight the dino and get the reward as Cryptic set it out to be. Also I didn't say you said that the reward was only for campers. Stop putting words in my mouth.
As you say again, how is the whole map intended to get the reward when they are being taken down so fast? It's not working as Cryptic planned. A few months ago, the way it used to be you could be many segments away and still get the reward, not so much now, so it has changed for the worse and Cryptic needs to change things. You seem to be picking points to argue against me when it seems that we mainly agree, but you were wrong when you said Frost Boots and planning would let you get to any dino, that is why I quoted that to tell you it was wrong and now you seem to be running away with anything I say to make an argument over it lol.
I'm not sure they are though, if they aren't able to get the final reward, as Cryptic intended through no fault of their own then I think they have the right to voice their concerns.
Yet again you've moved the goal posts. You said
To which I said
My point was I feel I am entitled to the reward as that is how Cryptic intended, entitlement from the game mechanics not entitlement from the players.
You said
So if it's intended then shouldn't you feel entitlement to the way the map is meant to be played, but that is put out of your reach because the dinos are being taken down in such a short time that someone who is only 1/2 segments away is unable to play (and finish) the map as the way it was intended? It is broken when something like that happens and it needs changing, as I think we both agree.
If you miss out on a queues reward because something wasn't working as intended then I think most people would feel entitled to that reward.
I'm not gonna carry on arguing with you as we seem to be going around in circles and you're picking minor points in which to create an argument. In this post I have not implied you have said anything, I am just stating facts. Lets stop this merry-go-round eh?
Dude i'm not going to keep arguing something with you I've already hashed out with others. I've already explained that I don't agree with certain lines of reasoning or perceived reason.
You can actually argue that something is wrong and should be changed to make things more fair, while at the same time not being against the rules, which is exactly what I did.
It's no different than spawning a world boss in WoW and getting beaten to that spawn location by other players in the zone. Unfortunately being a jerk isn't against the rules. It's a situation of "they can do it but should they do it," as the old conundrum goes. Does it suck, yes. Should it be changed, yes it should because it's outdated/bad design.
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So - using a forcefield to keep people an additional 25 M from the V-Rex spawn point would help?
lulz
What I'm getting from the OP is "V-Rexs die too fast, and I can't cap all 3 zones for Dil bonus"
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I said you should be able to make it, as in no guarantee but very high probability of success. Again no post move.
Once again, the operative word in my statement was, should. Should as in high probability of success but still possibility of failure. it's going to happen from time to time that you don't make it and I've never denied that.
Once more there is no goal post move and I will refer you to the operative word of should once again. It's a fact in a place like the ground battlezone as fast paced as it can be that if you're not using the frosted boots that 99% of the time, everyone else who is will get there before you do. Folks can get around quicker to places through the frosted boots. That's just a fact since they let you go faster. Why would the option to use the boots outside of Wonderlands be given if they weren't intended to have uses outside of ice skating? Again the dino dying super fast is part of several factors that I've already explained. You can say changes need to be made to update the content and that's a perfectly valid point. Until those changes are made however it's something we're going to have to deal with.
Call it what you will but in a great number of cases the word, entitlement, fits with the growing trends of gaming. Far too many people in gaming today want maximum reward for minimum effort. In the case of WoW being on example before I came to this game, people kept complaining about the Looking For Raid finder being still too difficult even after they watered it down to almost trivial levels. Folks still wanted to see the rewards raised to the point that it matched the higher levels of difficulty in game. Thus they wanted max reward with minimum effort. When you see alot of calls for "nerf this" and "nerf that" or "make it easier for us to get more of this", etc, all the time, it fits with the mentality. In some cases it's needed, in some it's not. You can call it a buzzword if you will but it makes the point no less valid.
As I explained elsewhere, it's no different than spawning a world boss in WoW and getting beaten to the spawn by other folks who happened to be in the area. Does it suck, absolutely it does, but they don't break any rules by attacking the boss and killing it before you got there. Can it be argued that it's outdated design and should be changed, absolutely, and yes it should be changed. I've done nothing but call attention to what I saw as flawed logic behind wanting the changes.
I will refer you to the world boss example again. It's intended for anyone in the area to be able to smack the dino once it spawns. If you're beaten to the spawns then that sucks but is what the current system allows. We can absolutely say it should be changed, and it should. People absolutely have a right to voice their concerns, just as I have a right to voice my concerns if I see a problem with the logic behind, which is what I did. simply because something is intended to happen does not always mean that it will.
Once more no goal post move. Folks are not owed anything until they drop the dino. Yes it should be changed, that's not a debate. However until that happens this is what we have to deal with. It's no different than missing a world boss in other games.
You can absolutely feel it's not fair that you missed out on the dino. However until you actually drop the dino, no you shouldn't feel entitled to a reward from the game. With that point you may disagree and that's cool. I just don't think I'm entitled to something until I actually kill it, even if the intent was for me to kill it but was unable to do so. In terms of queues vs bgs we're speaking of 2 completely different types of content. I think there should be a change, though I don't think our full reasoning is exactly the same. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree with certain points.
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If that's what you need to tell yourself then more power to you. Like I said, read what I've posted to everyone else. If I see flawed logic in something I will call attention to it. You're free to disagree with my assessment if you will. If you need to feel you've gotten 1 up on me this go around then feel free to believe it. Otherwise I refer you to my previous posts to other folks.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
I am in an instance which was 1 zone away from popping. I was capturing that point but on the map 2 zones in the Park were failing and 2 in the Outskirts. I couldn't get to all 4 but the 5 campers at the City silo could have. But no so instead of that one point it became 3 points then like a fool i'm trying to pop the zone and other points in other areas start failing so back up to 1 point but can't be everywhere. No help from silo campers. So a map that could have popped within 5 mins turned into 45 mins extra so far as i'm the only Jonny running round capturing points. City silo failed campers must have got bored sitting round twiddling thumbs and changed instance or left.
I have lately been killing one V-Rex and end up staying with the corpse; and that is not out of respect for the mighty and abused creature. I have found that in the times that I started to run for the next, I may be able to get there in time to join that battle, but lately the other V-Rexs go down so fast that I am en route when the other two go down and I ended up with no Implants at all (or maybe no awards at all).
Can people still scam the system by tagging one and moving on to the next, increasing their Dilithium payout? I thought they changes that somewhat during a Patch. Probably the same lowlifes that swoop through to steal all the Command Credits you worked for. Or take the Deferi Civilian you are standing next to killing off the Borg Assimilators, or the Deferi Memento, or well you get the point.
I mean you may be able to use a Tier system to give out rewards like they do in the Undine and Terran Space Battlezones based upon participation level. But certainly not the way they do that with the Terran Counter-attack at the end of the Base killing cycle. They must gear that to hand out the Tier IV Rewards to the DPS Club or something. I don't know how many times I have participated in those battles, shooting up and blowing up a decent amount of stuff and have thrown GWs to bunch some up through the entire five minutes and still ended up with a Tier I Reward.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Is it even theoretically possible for a full instance of 15 players to all get credit for killing a dino together under the current rules? Or in other words, if 15 people were to arrive at the dino together and do equal amount of damage (1/15th of its HP, 6.666%), would they qualify for the reward or not?
That is a good question as until i changed all my science officers to a tr-116b rifle i would quite often find pounding the V-rex 15-25 times with shots from a high density/split beam or pulsewave and twice with exothermic didn't always register a tag as it was mainly shield damage. I'm pretty sure shield damage isn't calculated. Anyone able to confirm this thought that shield damage doesn't register a tag.
You only need to deal 1% of the dino's health to him to get credit for the kill.
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If a points system were put in place to discourage campers, this could have the additional benefit of reducing the number of people who show up for the dinos, which would give players like you a better chance at earning the implants. But I guess we'll never know for sure if we don't try.
Stick with your tr when fighting the rexes. reason being it deals the damage directly to their health instead of to their shield.
It was in one of the old patches wayyy back when they did the original change.
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