Now lets apply this to Star Trek. Star Trek 2009 is the second highest-grossing in the United States and Canada from the entire Star Trek film franchise, eclipsing The Voyage Home and Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Its opening weekend numbers alone outgross the entire individual runs of The Undiscovered Country, The Final Frontier, Insurrection and Nemesis. It also won an academy award for make up....making it the only Star Trek film to win an Oscar.
Star Trek Into Darkness is the highest grossing film in the Star Trek franchise.
So tell me...what incentive does Paramount have in moving away from what they are doing...which is highly profitable? Is a remake of Star Trek: The Motionless Picture going to put butts in seats? A movie made for just the Star Trek fans is going to fail. When Marvel makes their movies they don't make them just for the guys and gals who go to the comic book shop on Wednesdays...they make them for everyone.
As I've said before, the take is not the correct gauge to be applying. All it means, is that a lot of people paid to go and watch the movies. People have to pay to go and see the movie... They can't go in, watch for free and then pay on leaving if they only enjoyed it. So the take is not a reasonable nor realistic gauge for the quality of the film nor how many of those viewers actually enjoyed it...
Admittedly, there wasn't any internet when Search For Spock or the Voyage Home were released, so the nature of the discussion about them was different, and is different today. Of all the original movies, Search for Spock is my favorite. It has pretty much everything I like in a movie. Voyage Home, less so, but it still had some parts I enjoyed. I've never seen those films being discussed with the same level of division, and utter hatred, as the JJTrek (For the record, I've watched Into Darkness at least a dozen times, so I can't go so far as to say I hate it but I certainly hate JJ...) Look at how slated Beyond's trailer has been... How will that actually do when it is released though?
When viewed from that perspective, what the movies took in the cinema becomes pretty irrelevant if those same people didn't actually all like it... If you were to compare (being generous) 70% of Into Darkness' take to the other films, how would it place then? Did it get that much simply because it is better than the other movies, or because there's more money to spend nowadays and a larger viewing audience? When The Motion(less) Picture came out, there were only the fans who watched the original series. By the time Final Frontier came out, you're easily talking about their children, and possibly even grandchildren, and so on... More people with an interest in a franchise means more bums on seats when the movie hits the big screen.
My take on it wasn't to determine if the reboot movies are/were good or if they were popular. I was stating that from Paramount's point of view they have no incentive to stop this universe and go back to the prime one. Paramount as a studio only has one real indicator for continuing this universe and that's Box Office. It's the same thing with Transformers. Everyone and their brother says they hate those films...and yet the last one did 1.1 billion at the box office. Do you think that anyone at Paramount is saying "Hey let's drop Michael Bay and make these films more like the source material?" Hell no...which is why Bay is always like "Im done with these films" and Paramount buys him an island with prostitutes and cocaine to get him to come back.
Now for the discussions about the other movies...I've brought this point up again and again. The Next Generation was hated by Trekkers as a whole. It wasn't until Best of Both Worlds that Trekkers as a whole came around. If you watch the documentary "Chaos on the Bridge" The writers mention that was when the hate mail stopped. I bring the up because a lot of people have selective memories. We'd like to believe that we loved TNG since "Encounter at Farpoint"...and for some people this may be true...but a vast majority of Trekkers look at the past with rose colored visors. How anyone can not say Final Frontier is the worst Star Trek movie ever is beyond me? That movie is an affront to Trek more than anything Abrams and company did.
I see what you're saying Incentive to go back to the Primeverse would hopefully come from the minions they have on forums like this and elsewhere on the net who would see those less than positive reviews. For example, as I've said before, when JJ was asked if CBS were going to do another Star Trek series, he said they weren't interested. CBS now clearly are interested to do a new Star Trek series, but with Kurtzman, not JJ. I find it strange that when the CBS execs changed their minds/decided to do a new Star Trek series, they didn't go back to the guy who had suggested it (JJ) They clearly don't view him through rose-tinted glasses, so I'd take that as a sign that they can gauge the public opinion, rather than simply sticking with the goose who lays the golden egg Bay-style
Not to be contrary, but genuinely curious, but why do you feel that about Final Frontier? There's a lot I don't like about it (all the camping stuff, that old chestnut of the Enteprise being the only ship to handle it, Kirk, etc) but it has elements which I did like, such as Sybok... As above, I can ignore much of that and consider it an okay movie. Undiscovered Country, on the other hand, I really dislike (General Chang, Azetbur, Valeris(despite being a huge fan of Kim Cattrall) Spock's blatant grooming of a junior officer to the extent that it blinds him to her manipulations, and then his forcing a mind-meld on her) and I'd rate that as an inferior film to Final Frontier...
They may not have gone back to Abrams because he's tied up in Star Wars. We don't know the behind the scenes stuff but let's not categorize it as them disliking his take on things. Kurtzman is admittedly a Trekker and if the new show is based in the prime universe then it pays to have someone that a fan of that universe heading up the show.
Final Frontier is poorly edited, poorly written and the SPFX are poorly one. While Voyage Home took the characters and put them in funny situations...Final Frontier just straight up made fun of the characters. Scotty banging his head and falling down. Uhura's fan dance. I just can't forgive that movie. But then again I do like UC and I over look the plot holes (Chancellor Gorkon is dead...lets make his daughter Chancellor then...wait what? Why doesn't the Federation keep someone onboard who speaks Klingon? During the Cold War every US Navy ship had someone onboard that spoke Russian.
Not at the time though... If I come across the video of the premiere where he was asked, I'll link it... You could see the emotion in his eyes. It didn't come across as him being disappointed that they didn't want to do a series, but rather shame and embarrassment that they didn't want to do one with him... Maybe just my take on it, I admit, but I've always been a pretty good reader of other's bodylanguage, and that was how it seemed to me.
Yup, I definitely agree with you on those points... Indeed, Azetbur shouldn't've been taking over as chancellor, although I can see why she would have remained a diplomatic point of contact due to her presence. (Overall, I felt she was just a thoroughly snobby and dislikable character... In fact, I've just realized that she and Valeris are pretty interchangeable in terms of character... They're essentially the same character, just dressed up differently...) And absolutely, the language issue is inexcusable. That was something JJTrek at least got right with Uhura... She might've been a snarky TRIBBLE who slept her way to the top, but, she did know her subject and was clearly qualified in her position, which your example shows about the original being not so...
We don't know the behind the scenes happenings on the TV show. It maybe that they didn't want him back or he didn't want to come back. From what I understand he wanted to do a marketing blitz like what was done for Star Wars and Paramount said no. Who knows why he looks embarrassed.
Also Uhura didn't sleep her way to the top. She didn't sleep her way to get good grades. She didn't sleep her way to get a promotion. She should have been stationed on Enterprise and the only reason why she didn't is because Spock didn't want to give the appearance of favoritism.
Azetbur was made Chancellor for one reason...so we could have that cathartic scene at the end....between Her and Kirk.
Absolutely so... It just seems strange that JJ would say that they weren't interested in doing a Star Trek TV series, and not so long after, the reverse is true... And yes, had he had his way, then we'd have Kirk and Spock soap-on-a-rope and branded foodstuffs... Seeing what has happened with the marketing of Star Wars, or rather, The Force Awakens, I'm glad that he didn't get his way... On a similar note, I saw an ad for one of those 'collect monthly' magazines, of the Star Wars helmets. From what I could see, they were only helmets from the original movies (maybe more to come, of course) not from The Force Awakens...
Yes, you're right about Uhura, that was my mistake...
And yes, that's quite likely... She never irritated me (quite) as much as Valeris...
The marketing of The Force Awakens was brilliant. Disney and Lucasfilm made back the budget of their film on Force Friday. I would have loved to have had a Star Trek marketing blitz. You have to go out of your way just to buy a Star Trek shirt.
The smart thing that Disney/Lucasfilm did was market Star Wars not just TFA.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Actually, large box office is an excellent way to tell if people liked something. Because in order to rack up numbers like that, some of the ticket-buyers had to have gone more than once, and convinced others to go as well. (Full disclosure: I didn't pay to see either of the newer movies; I did buy ST09 on DVD, but only watched STID on Netflix.)
I saw ST:TMP in a theater once. I can't remember how many times I went to TWoK when it hit a dollar theater locally, though, and every dollar I paid counted toward the box office take. Saw TSFS in a theater once, TVH probably three or four times, and hadn't seen any of the others in a theater since, as they didn't seem worth the money. Contemplating watching STB in an actual theater, but haven't decided yet. But if I do, and I like it, I'll probably go more than once.
Now lets apply this to Star Trek. Star Trek 2009 is the second highest-grossing in the United States and Canada from the entire Star Trek film franchise, eclipsing The Voyage Home and Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Its opening weekend numbers alone outgross the entire individual runs of The Undiscovered Country, The Final Frontier, Insurrection and Nemesis. It also won an academy award for make up....making it the only Star Trek film to win an Oscar.
Star Trek Into Darkness is the highest grossing film in the Star Trek franchise.
So tell me...what incentive does Paramount have in moving away from what they are doing...which is highly profitable? Is a remake of Star Trek: The Motionless Picture going to put butts in seats? A movie made for just the Star Trek fans is going to fail. When Marvel makes their movies they don't make them just for the guys and gals who go to the comic book shop on Wednesdays...they make them for everyone.
As I've said before, the take is not the correct gauge to be applying. All it means, is that a lot of people paid to go and watch the movies. People have to pay to go and see the movie... They can't go in, watch for free and then pay on leaving if they only enjoyed it. So the take is not a reasonable nor realistic gauge for the quality of the film nor how many of those viewers actually enjoyed it...
Admittedly, there wasn't any internet when Search For Spock or the Voyage Home were released, so the nature of the discussion about them was different, and is different today. Of all the original movies, Search for Spock is my favorite. It has pretty much everything I like in a movie. Voyage Home, less so, but it still had some parts I enjoyed. I've never seen those films being discussed with the same level of division, and utter hatred, as the JJTrek (For the record, I've watched Into Darkness at least a dozen times, so I can't go so far as to say I hate it but I certainly hate JJ...) Look at how slated Beyond's trailer has been... How will that actually do when it is released though?
When viewed from that perspective, what the movies took in the cinema becomes pretty irrelevant if those same people didn't actually all like it... If you were to compare (being generous) 70% of Into Darkness' take to the other films, how would it place then? Did it get that much simply because it is better than the other movies, or because there's more money to spend nowadays and a larger viewing audience? When The Motion(less) Picture came out, there were only the fans who watched the original series. By the time Final Frontier came out, you're easily talking about their children, and possibly even grandchildren, and so on... More people with an interest in a franchise means more bums on seats when the movie hits the big screen.
My take on it wasn't to determine if the reboot movies are/were good or if they were popular. I was stating that from Paramount's point of view they have no incentive to stop this universe and go back to the prime one. Paramount as a studio only has one real indicator for continuing this universe and that's Box Office. It's the same thing with Transformers. Everyone and their brother says they hate those films...and yet the last one did 1.1 billion at the box office. Do you think that anyone at Paramount is saying "Hey let's drop Michael Bay and make these films more like the source material?" Hell no...which is why Bay is always like "Im done with these films" and Paramount buys him an island with prostitutes and cocaine to get him to come back.
Now for the discussions about the other movies...I've brought this point up again and again. The Next Generation was hated by Trekkers as a whole. It wasn't until Best of Both Worlds that Trekkers as a whole came around. If you watch the documentary "Chaos on the Bridge" The writers mention that was when the hate mail stopped. I bring the up because a lot of people have selective memories. We'd like to believe that we loved TNG since "Encounter at Farpoint"...and for some people this may be true...but a vast majority of Trekkers look at the past with rose colored visors. How anyone can not say Final Frontier is the worst Star Trek movie ever is beyond me? That movie is an affront to Trek more than anything Abrams and company did.
I see what you're saying Incentive to go back to the Primeverse would hopefully come from the minions they have on forums like this and elsewhere on the net who would see those less than positive reviews. For example, as I've said before, when JJ was asked if CBS were going to do another Star Trek series, he said they weren't interested. CBS now clearly are interested to do a new Star Trek series, but with Kurtzman, not JJ. I find it strange that when the CBS execs changed their minds/decided to do a new Star Trek series, they didn't go back to the guy who had suggested it (JJ) They clearly don't view him through rose-tinted glasses, so I'd take that as a sign that they can gauge the public opinion, rather than simply sticking with the goose who lays the golden egg Bay-style
Not to be contrary, but genuinely curious, but why do you feel that about Final Frontier? There's a lot I don't like about it (all the camping stuff, that old chestnut of the Enteprise being the only ship to handle it, Kirk, etc) but it has elements which I did like, such as Sybok... As above, I can ignore much of that and consider it an okay movie. Undiscovered Country, on the other hand, I really dislike (General Chang, Azetbur, Valeris(despite being a huge fan of Kim Cattrall) Spock's blatant grooming of a junior officer to the extent that it blinds him to her manipulations, and then his forcing a mind-meld on her) and I'd rate that as an inferior film to Final Frontier...
They may not have gone back to Abrams because he's tied up in Star Wars. We don't know the behind the scenes stuff but let's not categorize it as them disliking his take on things. Kurtzman is admittedly a Trekker and if the new show is based in the prime universe then it pays to have someone that a fan of that universe heading up the show.
Final Frontier is poorly edited, poorly written and the SPFX are poorly one. While Voyage Home took the characters and put them in funny situations...Final Frontier just straight up made fun of the characters. Scotty banging his head and falling down. Uhura's fan dance. I just can't forgive that movie. But then again I do like UC and I over look the plot holes (Chancellor Gorkon is dead...lets make his daughter Chancellor then...wait what? Why doesn't the Federation keep someone onboard who speaks Klingon? During the Cold War every US Navy ship had someone onboard that spoke Russian.
Not at the time though... If I come across the video of the premiere where he was asked, I'll link it... You could see the emotion in his eyes. It didn't come across as him being disappointed that they didn't want to do a series, but rather shame and embarrassment that they didn't want to do one with him... Maybe just my take on it, I admit, but I've always been a pretty good reader of other's bodylanguage, and that was how it seemed to me.
Yup, I definitely agree with you on those points... Indeed, Azetbur shouldn't've been taking over as chancellor, although I can see why she would have remained a diplomatic point of contact due to her presence. (Overall, I felt she was just a thoroughly snobby and dislikable character... In fact, I've just realized that she and Valeris are pretty interchangeable in terms of character... They're essentially the same character, just dressed up differently...) And absolutely, the language issue is inexcusable. That was something JJTrek at least got right with Uhura... She might've been a snarky TRIBBLE who slept her way to the top, but, she did know her subject and was clearly qualified in her position, which your example shows about the original being not so...
We don't know the behind the scenes happenings on the TV show. It maybe that they didn't want him back or he didn't want to come back. From what I understand he wanted to do a marketing blitz like what was done for Star Wars and Paramount said no. Who knows why he looks embarrassed.
Also Uhura didn't sleep her way to the top. She didn't sleep her way to get good grades. She didn't sleep her way to get a promotion. She should have been stationed on Enterprise and the only reason why she didn't is because Spock didn't want to give the appearance of favoritism.
Azetbur was made Chancellor for one reason...so we could have that cathartic scene at the end....between Her and Kirk.
Absolutely so... It just seems strange that JJ would say that they weren't interested in doing a Star Trek TV series, and not so long after, the reverse is true... And yes, had he had his way, then we'd have Kirk and Spock soap-on-a-rope and branded foodstuffs... Seeing what has happened with the marketing of Star Wars, or rather, The Force Awakens, I'm glad that he didn't get his way... On a similar note, I saw an ad for one of those 'collect monthly' magazines, of the Star Wars helmets. From what I could see, they were only helmets from the original movies (maybe more to come, of course) not from The Force Awakens...
Yes, you're right about Uhura, that was my mistake...
And yes, that's quite likely... She never irritated me (quite) as much as Valeris...
The marketing of The Force Awakens was brilliant. Disney and Lucasfilm made back the budget of their film on Force Friday. I would have loved to have had a Star Trek marketing blitz. You have to go out of your way just to buy a Star Trek shirt.
The smart thing that Disney/Lucasfilm did was market Star Wars not just TFA.
Actually, large box office is an excellent way to tell if people liked something. Because in order to rack up numbers like that, some of the ticket-buyers had to have gone more than once, and convinced others to go as well. (Full disclosure: I didn't pay to see either of the newer movies; I did buy ST09 on DVD, but only watched STID on Netflix.)
I saw ST:TMP in a theater once. I can't remember how many times I went to TWoK when it hit a dollar theater locally, though, and every dollar I paid counted toward the box office take. Saw TSFS in a theater once, TVH probably three or four times, and hadn't seen any of the others in a theater since, as they didn't seem worth the money. Contemplating watching STB in an actual theater, but haven't decided yet. But if I do, and I like it, I'll probably go more than once.
Possibly so. But one still cannot deny not only the amount of ire which JJTrek inspires, but the significantly greater instances than when discussing previous Star Trek films...
I can't say that JJ's marketing was worse than Gene's.. Gene CREATED the IDIC so he could sell them to fans.
She was?
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book... At least the Star Trek foodstuffs available tend to ride the coattails of Romulan Ale which is a featured beverage. Maybe if I was to see Rey wolfing down some cheese straws, I might be less incredulous
Possibly so. But one still cannot deny not only the amount of ire which JJTrek inspires, but the significantly greater instances than when discussing previous Star Trek films...
I totally agree with that. JJ Trek while it did spark some rivalry between Prime Universe trek fans and JJ Trek fans, it did have some fame and also brought the franchise back up from the ashes it ended up in after Star Trek Enterprise.
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I never knew that All the other things, sure, but I didn't know they'd done Star Trek foodstuffs too.
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I never knew that All the other things, sure, but I didn't know they'd done Star Trek foodstuffs too.
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
Into the Derpiness, was nothing more than a Wrath of Khan knockoff.
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I never knew that All the other things, sure, but I didn't know they'd done Star Trek foodstuffs too.
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
Into the Derpiness, was nothing more than a Wrath of Khan knockoff.
For a couple of scenes, if you were a real Trek fan, you would know its actually a knock off of the Trek Novel, Dreadnought!.
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I remember the TMP Happy Meals at McDonald's.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I never knew that All the other things, sure, but I didn't know they'd done Star Trek foodstuffs too.
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
Into the Derpiness, was nothing more than a Wrath of Khan knockoff.
Yup. But here's the most damning review of it... I watched them because I didn't have anything better to do, and I knew it would kill time...
Watching the two movies, however, did allow three points to strike me.
- Following his mind-meld with Spock, Kirk asked about his father, which Spock then explained. This, and other comments Kirk made, utterly destroys the upthread-mentioned headcanon notion that the mind-meld in some way allowed Kirk to experience the greatness of his Prime-self, and to see a better person to aspire to become (his behaviour towards women at the beginning of Into Darkness also shows that his outlook had not changed, and his conduct is still unbecoming an officer and a gentleman...)
- A potential plot point which was utterly missed, would been to have had another officer other than Chekov take over as Scotty's replacement. The flaw, is that while Chekov had been shadowing Scott, that in no way qualifies him to immediately assume the duties of chief engineer, so that, once again, highlights the lack of consideration which the writers give to an organisation of rank. Had another officer been made chief engineer instead, that could have at least allowed for more exploration of the saboteur who forced the ship out of warp. For all we know, that still could have been Chekov (unlikely, but not impossible to discount) The thread of investigating the sabotage, would have at least given the plot something else interesting.
- Misuse of talent by the director... The officer who took over Chekov's post, I don't recall being identified by name, rank, or even having a spoken line (At least the bald Mandroid (wifey's favorite character) got to speak, even if he did respond to Kirk's order for a specific report on the damage of the hull, with an unhelpful and useless 'Hull damage'.) I'm rather confused as to why the other officer who the camera kept focussing on (and who actually did have a spoken line) the lady with the white hair, was not chosen to sit beside Sulu instead... I'm sure wardrobe could have given her a gold uniform instead of a red one, and she was on the set just as much as the other lady...
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I never knew that All the other things, sure, but I didn't know they'd done Star Trek foodstuffs too.
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
Into the Derpiness, was nothing more than a Wrath of Khan knockoff.
For a couple of scenes, if you were a real Trek fan, you would know its actually a knock off of the Trek Novel, Dreadnought!.
Oh don't try that 'real Trek fan' nonsense... I haven't read that novel either, nor any of the Titan novels, nor the later DS-9 continuations, so do you want to try and say I'm not a real Trek fan either? My earliest memory is of watching Star Trek. I also have Vulcan calligraphy tattooed on my arm. How many Trek-related tattoos do you have? Maybe you're not a real Trek fan if you don't have any... That someone might not have read a novel diminishes their fanhood?! Get a grip!
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I never knew that All the other things, sure, but I didn't know they'd done Star Trek foodstuffs too.
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
Into the Derpiness, was nothing more than a Wrath of Khan knockoff.
For a couple of scenes, if you were a real Trek fan, you would know its actually a knock off of the Trek Novel, Dreadnought!.
Oh don't try that 'real Trek fan' nonsense... I haven't read that novel either, nor any of the Titan novels, nor the later DS-9 continuations, so do you want to try and say I'm not a real Trek fan either? My earliest memory is of watching Star Trek. I also have Vulcan calligraphy tattooed on my arm. How many Trek-related tattoos do you have? Maybe you're not a real Trek fan if you don't have any... That someone might not have read a novel diminishes their fanhood?! Get a grip!
It was meant as a tongue-in-cheek comment, get off your high horse. I wish there was a ignore function on this thing.
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I never knew that All the other things, sure, but I didn't know they'd done Star Trek foodstuffs too.
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
Into the Derpiness, was nothing more than a Wrath of Khan knockoff.
Yup. But here's the most damning review of it... I watched them because I didn't have anything better to do, and I knew it would kill time...
Watching the two movies, however, did allow three points to strike me.
- Following his mind-meld with Spock, Kirk asked about his father, which Spock then explained. This, and other comments Kirk made, utterly destroys the upthread-mentioned headcanon notion that the mind-meld in some way allowed Kirk to experience the greatness of his Prime-self, and to see a better person to aspire to become (his behaviour towards women at the beginning of Into Darkness also shows that his outlook had not changed, and his conduct is still unbecoming an officer and a gentleman...)
- A potential plot point which was utterly missed, would been to have had another officer other than Chekov take over as Scotty's replacement. The flaw, is that while Chekov had been shadowing Scott, that in no way qualifies him to immediately assume the duties of chief engineer, so that, once again, highlights the lack of consideration which the writers give to an organisation of rank. Had another officer been made chief engineer instead, that could have at least allowed for more exploration of the saboteur who forced the ship out of warp. For all we know, that still could have been Chekov (unlikely, but not impossible to discount) The thread of investigating the sabotage, would have at least given the plot something else interesting.
- Misuse of talent by the director... The officer who took over Chekov's post, I don't recall being identified by name, rank, or even having a spoken line (At least the bald Mandroid (wifey's favorite character) got to speak, even if he did respond to Kirk's order for a specific report on the damage of the hull, with an unhelpful and useless 'Hull damage'.) I'm rather confused as to why the other officer who the camera kept focussing on (and who actually did have a spoken line) the lady with the white hair, was not chosen to sit beside Sulu instead... I'm sure wardrobe could have given her a gold uniform instead of a red one, and she was on the set just as much as the other lady...
1) Maybe but I imagine that if he just downloaded a lifetime's worth of memories he wouldn't be able to process it all... hence the question.
2) I didn't see it as a missed opportunity but an excuse to use the supporting cast more. In the TOS films if you aren't Kirk, Spock or Bones you are criminally underused...So yeah there should have been an Assistant Chief Engineer, who may have been the little alien that walked with Scotty, so you are right but it's an excuse to give Chekov something more to do.
3) Not sure how this is a problem with the film.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I never knew that All the other things, sure, but I didn't know they'd done Star Trek foodstuffs too.
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
Into the Derpiness, was nothing more than a Wrath of Khan knockoff.
For a couple of scenes, if you were a real Trek fan, you would know its actually a knock off of the Trek Novel, Dreadnought!.
Oh don't try that 'real Trek fan' nonsense... I haven't read that novel either, nor any of the Titan novels, nor the later DS-9 continuations, so do you want to try and say I'm not a real Trek fan either? My earliest memory is of watching Star Trek. I also have Vulcan calligraphy tattooed on my arm. How many Trek-related tattoos do you have? Maybe you're not a real Trek fan if you don't have any... That someone might not have read a novel diminishes their fanhood?! Get a grip!
"Only True Fans" and we wonder why the fandom is dying
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I never knew that All the other things, sure, but I didn't know they'd done Star Trek foodstuffs too.
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
Into the Derpiness, was nothing more than a Wrath of Khan knockoff.
For a couple of scenes, if you were a real Trek fan, you would know its actually a knock off of the Trek Novel, Dreadnought!.
Oh don't try that 'real Trek fan' nonsense... I haven't read that novel either, nor any of the Titan novels, nor the later DS-9 continuations, so do you want to try and say I'm not a real Trek fan either? My earliest memory is of watching Star Trek. I also have Vulcan calligraphy tattooed on my arm. How many Trek-related tattoos do you have? Maybe you're not a real Trek fan if you don't have any... That someone might not have read a novel diminishes their fanhood?! Get a grip!
It was meant as a tongue-in-cheek comment, get off your high horse. I wish there was a ignore function on this thing.
Then perhaps you should have used an emoji to convey that you were being humorous, rather than condescending, because that is how your post came across. Tone is easily lost in the written word, and it does not hurt to take steps to alleviate any misunderstanding when meaning is -- I won't say ambiguous, because your comment only read as hostility, with no undercurrent of humor. That you have responded so defensively suggests that I've hit a nerve and called you out over an unnecessarily hostile comment, rather than the joke you are now claiming it to be... Yes, an ignore function would be nice, maybe the mods will add one oneday. But I doubt it...
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I never knew that All the other things, sure, but I didn't know they'd done Star Trek foodstuffs too.
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
Into the Derpiness, was nothing more than a Wrath of Khan knockoff.
For a couple of scenes, if you were a real Trek fan, you would know its actually a knock off of the Trek Novel, Dreadnought!.
Oh don't try that 'real Trek fan' nonsense... I haven't read that novel either, nor any of the Titan novels, nor the later DS-9 continuations, so do you want to try and say I'm not a real Trek fan either? My earliest memory is of watching Star Trek. I also have Vulcan calligraphy tattooed on my arm. How many Trek-related tattoos do you have? Maybe you're not a real Trek fan if you don't have any... That someone might not have read a novel diminishes their fanhood?! Get a grip!
"Only True Fans" and we wonder why the fandom is dying
Dude, I'm not the one pulling that 'true fan' TRIBBLE, I'm simply standing up for someone, and illustrating that depending on where someone puts the goalposts, the definition of 'a true fan' is pretty easy to one up, and a ludicrous notion to try and label someone with, or say that they're not. We're all fans of Star Trek, or we wouldn't be here...
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I never knew that All the other things, sure, but I didn't know they'd done Star Trek foodstuffs too.
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
Into the Derpiness, was nothing more than a Wrath of Khan knockoff.
For a couple of scenes, if you were a real Trek fan, you would know its actually a knock off of the Trek Novel, Dreadnought!.
Oh don't try that 'real Trek fan' nonsense... I haven't read that novel either, nor any of the Titan novels, nor the later DS-9 continuations, so do you want to try and say I'm not a real Trek fan either? My earliest memory is of watching Star Trek. I also have Vulcan calligraphy tattooed on my arm. How many Trek-related tattoos do you have? Maybe you're not a real Trek fan if you don't have any... That someone might not have read a novel diminishes their fanhood?! Get a grip!
"Only True Fans" and we wonder why the fandom is dying
Dude, I'm not the one pulling that 'true fan' TRIBBLE, I'm simply standing up for someone, and illustrating that depending on where someone puts the goalposts, the definition of 'a true fan' is pretty easy to one up, and a ludicrous notion to try and label someone with, or say that they're not. We're all fans of Star Trek, or we wouldn't be here...
Dude, Phasers on stun...I was backing you up
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I never knew that All the other things, sure, but I didn't know they'd done Star Trek foodstuffs too.
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
Into the Derpiness, was nothing more than a Wrath of Khan knockoff.
Yup. But here's the most damning review of it... I watched them because I didn't have anything better to do, and I knew it would kill time...
Watching the two movies, however, did allow three points to strike me.
- Following his mind-meld with Spock, Kirk asked about his father, which Spock then explained. This, and other comments Kirk made, utterly destroys the upthread-mentioned headcanon notion that the mind-meld in some way allowed Kirk to experience the greatness of his Prime-self, and to see a better person to aspire to become (his behaviour towards women at the beginning of Into Darkness also shows that his outlook had not changed, and his conduct is still unbecoming an officer and a gentleman...)
- A potential plot point which was utterly missed, would been to have had another officer other than Chekov take over as Scotty's replacement. The flaw, is that while Chekov had been shadowing Scott, that in no way qualifies him to immediately assume the duties of chief engineer, so that, once again, highlights the lack of consideration which the writers give to an organisation of rank. Had another officer been made chief engineer instead, that could have at least allowed for more exploration of the saboteur who forced the ship out of warp. For all we know, that still could have been Chekov (unlikely, but not impossible to discount) The thread of investigating the sabotage, would have at least given the plot something else interesting.
- Misuse of talent by the director... The officer who took over Chekov's post, I don't recall being identified by name, rank, or even having a spoken line (At least the bald Mandroid (wifey's favorite character) got to speak, even if he did respond to Kirk's order for a specific report on the damage of the hull, with an unhelpful and useless 'Hull damage'.) I'm rather confused as to why the other officer who the camera kept focussing on (and who actually did have a spoken line) the lady with the white hair, was not chosen to sit beside Sulu instead... I'm sure wardrobe could have given her a gold uniform instead of a red one, and she was on the set just as much as the other lady...
1) Maybe but I imagine that if he just downloaded a lifetime's worth of memories he wouldn't be able to process it all... hence the question.
2) I didn't see it as a missed opportunity but an excuse to use the supporting cast more. In the TOS films if you aren't Kirk, Spock or Bones you are criminally underused...So yeah there should have been an Assistant Chief Engineer, who may have been the little alien that walked with Scotty, so you are right but it's an excuse to give Chekov something more to do.
3) Not sure how this is a problem with the film.
1) Processing I could accept. Equally, he could have said: "My father saw me take command of the Enterprise?!" Given his behaviour at the beginning of Into Darkness hadn't changed, as highlighted by everything Pike said to him in the disciplinary, I still don't see that he had seen anything to inspire him. He only grew in Into Darkness, as a result of what happened to him during those events.
2) I'd have to disagree slightly, as Chekov was actually quite a featured character in the movies. Never a lead, I admit, but certainly one of the main characters... My point was not so much of giving Chekov something to do, but as an opportunity for the sabotage to have been more thoroughly looked into as an additional plot thread.
3) I'm just talking a technical behind the scenes 'might have been better' thought, rather than a true flaw, such as the cold fusion device. A bit like if someone receives a meal, and says "Needs more salt..." The camera clearly gave shots to the white-haired lady, and she did have (a) spoken line... I'm just saying it would have made as much sense to have sat her next to Sulu, especially as given she had a published line, she probably gets a better royalty than the other actress... In for a penny, in for a pound, as the saying goes...
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I never knew that All the other things, sure, but I didn't know they'd done Star Trek foodstuffs too.
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
Into the Derpiness, was nothing more than a Wrath of Khan knockoff.
For a couple of scenes, if you were a real Trek fan, you would know its actually a knock off of the Trek Novel, Dreadnought!.
Oh don't try that 'real Trek fan' nonsense... I haven't read that novel either, nor any of the Titan novels, nor the later DS-9 continuations, so do you want to try and say I'm not a real Trek fan either? My earliest memory is of watching Star Trek. I also have Vulcan calligraphy tattooed on my arm. How many Trek-related tattoos do you have? Maybe you're not a real Trek fan if you don't have any... That someone might not have read a novel diminishes their fanhood?! Get a grip!
"Only True Fans" and we wonder why the fandom is dying
Dude, I'm not the one pulling that 'true fan' TRIBBLE, I'm simply standing up for someone, and illustrating that depending on where someone puts the goalposts, the definition of 'a true fan' is pretty easy to one up, and a ludicrous notion to try and label someone with, or say that they're not. We're all fans of Star Trek, or we wouldn't be here...
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I never knew that All the other things, sure, but I didn't know they'd done Star Trek foodstuffs too.
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
Into the Derpiness, was nothing more than a Wrath of Khan knockoff.
Yup. But here's the most damning review of it... I watched them because I didn't have anything better to do, and I knew it would kill time...
Watching the two movies, however, did allow three points to strike me.
- Following his mind-meld with Spock, Kirk asked about his father, which Spock then explained. This, and other comments Kirk made, utterly destroys the upthread-mentioned headcanon notion that the mind-meld in some way allowed Kirk to experience the greatness of his Prime-self, and to see a better person to aspire to become (his behaviour towards women at the beginning of Into Darkness also shows that his outlook had not changed, and his conduct is still unbecoming an officer and a gentleman...)
- A potential plot point which was utterly missed, would been to have had another officer other than Chekov take over as Scotty's replacement. The flaw, is that while Chekov had been shadowing Scott, that in no way qualifies him to immediately assume the duties of chief engineer, so that, once again, highlights the lack of consideration which the writers give to an organisation of rank. Had another officer been made chief engineer instead, that could have at least allowed for more exploration of the saboteur who forced the ship out of warp. For all we know, that still could have been Chekov (unlikely, but not impossible to discount) The thread of investigating the sabotage, would have at least given the plot something else interesting.
- Misuse of talent by the director... The officer who took over Chekov's post, I don't recall being identified by name, rank, or even having a spoken line (At least the bald Mandroid (wifey's favorite character) got to speak, even if he did respond to Kirk's order for a specific report on the damage of the hull, with an unhelpful and useless 'Hull damage'.) I'm rather confused as to why the other officer who the camera kept focussing on (and who actually did have a spoken line) the lady with the white hair, was not chosen to sit beside Sulu instead... I'm sure wardrobe could have given her a gold uniform instead of a red one, and she was on the set just as much as the other lady...
1) Maybe but I imagine that if he just downloaded a lifetime's worth of memories he wouldn't be able to process it all... hence the question.
2) I didn't see it as a missed opportunity but an excuse to use the supporting cast more. In the TOS films if you aren't Kirk, Spock or Bones you are criminally underused...So yeah there should have been an Assistant Chief Engineer, who may have been the little alien that walked with Scotty, so you are right but it's an excuse to give Chekov something more to do.
3) Not sure how this is a problem with the film.
1) Processing I could accept. Equally, he could have said: "My father saw me take command of the Enterprise?!" Given his behaviour at the beginning of Into Darkness hadn't changed, as highlighted by everything Pike said to him in the disciplinary, I still don't see that he had seen anything to inspire him. He only grew in Into Darkness, as a result of what happened to him during those events.
2) I'd have to disagree slightly, as Chekov was actually quite a featured character in the movies. Never a lead, I admit, but certainly one of the main characters... My point was not so much of giving Chekov something to do, but as an opportunity for the sabotage to have been more thoroughly looked into as an additional plot thread.
3) I'm just talking a technical behind the scenes 'might have been better' thought, rather than a true flaw, such as the cold fusion device. A bit like if someone receives a meal, and says "Needs more salt..." The camera clearly gave shots to the white-haired lady, and she did have (a) spoken line... I'm just saying it would have made as much sense to have sat her next to Sulu, especially as given she had a published line, she probably gets a better royalty than the other actress... In for a penny, in for a pound, as the saying goes...
1) Probably.
2) I don't agree with this. Chekov gets his hand burned in TMP, he gets more time in WOK due to him being brain slugged by Khan, I don't recall his part of the plan in Search for Spock, he had a bigger role in Voyage Home, I don't recall what he did in FF, and was pretty much Spock's sounding board when they were looking for clues.
3) I am all in favor of more white haired lady. I am crushing on her and even made one of my AR crew BOFFS similar to her.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
2) I didn't see it as a missed opportunity but an excuse to use the supporting cast more. In the TOS films if you aren't Kirk, Spock or Bones you are criminally underused...So yeah there should have been an Assistant Chief Engineer, who may have been the little alien that walked with Scotty, so you are right but it's an excuse to give Chekov something more to do.
The fact that they did as ensemble as they did with TOS is actually pretty unusual. Watch the Galileo 7 - Kirk is hardly in it. Almost all cowboy shows at the time - very popular trash - had one "lone wolf" hero who was the absolute star and nobody else on the show ever got to do anything impressive except him - think of "The Andy Griffith Show" - a comedy - but everyone except Andy is a total buffoon. Ensemble TV just wasn't as much of a thing until the 80's/90's really.
I agree it would have been nice to see a more dynamic ensemble in TOS, but it really wasn't much of a style at that time.
Tell me what show in the 60's had 8 well flushed out and frequently story-centered characters.
People keep trying to push TOS into a true ensemble show mold and criticizing it for not being in that mold in the first place. But that's just not what TV did back then. Most of this, I assume, is because of Takei frequently whining that he didn't like Shatner. We all like the other characters in TOS, but it was never really a true ensemble show because that simply wasn't the style of TV at the time.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
2) I didn't see it as a missed opportunity but an excuse to use the supporting cast more. In the TOS films if you aren't Kirk, Spock or Bones you are criminally underused...So yeah there should have been an Assistant Chief Engineer, who may have been the little alien that walked with Scotty, so you are right but it's an excuse to give Chekov something more to do.
The fact that they did as ensemble as they did with TOS is actually pretty unusual. Watch the Galileo 7 - Kirk is hardly in it. Almost all cowboy shows at the time - very popular trash - had one "lone wolf" hero who was the absolute star and nobody else on the show ever got to do anything impressive except him - think of "The Andy Griffith Show" - a comedy - but everyone except Andy is a total buffoon. Ensemble TV just wasn't as much of a thing until the 80's/90's really.
I agree it would have been nice to see a more dynamic ensemble in TOS, but it really wasn't much of a style at that time.
Tell me what show in the 60's had 8 well flushed out and frequently story-centered characters.
People keep trying to push TOS into a true ensemble show mold and criticizing it for not being in that mold in the first place. But that's just not what TV did back then. Most of this, I assume, is because of Takei frequently whining that he didn't like Shatner. We all like the other characters in TOS, but it was never really a true ensemble show because that simply wasn't the style of TV at the time.
I was talking about the TOS movies...which took place during the 80's and 90's.
It's unfair to compare a film's character development to a tv show's. A tv show has more than 2 hours to focus on each character.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book...
Sugar Smacks cereal with Spock on the box - I seem to recall that you could collect the box tops and send them in for a toy phaser. There was a brief fad in the '70s for calorically-dense, nutritional chocolate bars (they were called "space food"), and there was a Trek-themed one. T-shirts galore (no, they're not at all hard to find, even today - a friend of mine in college had a red shirt with a bullseye on it and the words, "Starfleet Security"), bicycles, models, toys, action figures after those came into vogue (so after TMP came out), Halloween costumes, pendants, rings, earrings, quite a bit from the ThinkGeek.com catalog... trust me, Star Trek has never forgotten marketing, not even (perhaps especially not) as far back as Roddenberry.
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
I never knew that All the other things, sure, but I didn't know they'd done Star Trek foodstuffs too.
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
Into the Derpiness, was nothing more than a Wrath of Khan knockoff.
Yup. But here's the most damning review of it... I watched them because I didn't have anything better to do, and I knew it would kill time...
Watching the two movies, however, did allow three points to strike me.
- Following his mind-meld with Spock, Kirk asked about his father, which Spock then explained. This, and other comments Kirk made, utterly destroys the upthread-mentioned headcanon notion that the mind-meld in some way allowed Kirk to experience the greatness of his Prime-self, and to see a better person to aspire to become (his behaviour towards women at the beginning of Into Darkness also shows that his outlook had not changed, and his conduct is still unbecoming an officer and a gentleman...)
- A potential plot point which was utterly missed, would been to have had another officer other than Chekov take over as Scotty's replacement. The flaw, is that while Chekov had been shadowing Scott, that in no way qualifies him to immediately assume the duties of chief engineer, so that, once again, highlights the lack of consideration which the writers give to an organisation of rank. Had another officer been made chief engineer instead, that could have at least allowed for more exploration of the saboteur who forced the ship out of warp. For all we know, that still could have been Chekov (unlikely, but not impossible to discount) The thread of investigating the sabotage, would have at least given the plot something else interesting.
- Misuse of talent by the director... The officer who took over Chekov's post, I don't recall being identified by name, rank, or even having a spoken line (At least the bald Mandroid (wifey's favorite character) got to speak, even if he did respond to Kirk's order for a specific report on the damage of the hull, with an unhelpful and useless 'Hull damage'.) I'm rather confused as to why the other officer who the camera kept focussing on (and who actually did have a spoken line) the lady with the white hair, was not chosen to sit beside Sulu instead... I'm sure wardrobe could have given her a gold uniform instead of a red one, and she was on the set just as much as the other lady...
1) Maybe but I imagine that if he just downloaded a lifetime's worth of memories he wouldn't be able to process it all... hence the question.
2) I didn't see it as a missed opportunity but an excuse to use the supporting cast more. In the TOS films if you aren't Kirk, Spock or Bones you are criminally underused...So yeah there should have been an Assistant Chief Engineer, who may have been the little alien that walked with Scotty, so you are right but it's an excuse to give Chekov something more to do.
3) Not sure how this is a problem with the film.
1) Processing I could accept. Equally, he could have said: "My father saw me take command of the Enterprise?!" Given his behaviour at the beginning of Into Darkness hadn't changed, as highlighted by everything Pike said to him in the disciplinary, I still don't see that he had seen anything to inspire him. He only grew in Into Darkness, as a result of what happened to him during those events.
2) I'd have to disagree slightly, as Chekov was actually quite a featured character in the movies. Never a lead, I admit, but certainly one of the main characters... My point was not so much of giving Chekov something to do, but as an opportunity for the sabotage to have been more thoroughly looked into as an additional plot thread.
3) I'm just talking a technical behind the scenes 'might have been better' thought, rather than a true flaw, such as the cold fusion device. A bit like if someone receives a meal, and says "Needs more salt..." The camera clearly gave shots to the white-haired lady, and she did have (a) spoken line... I'm just saying it would have made as much sense to have sat her next to Sulu, especially as given she had a published line, she probably gets a better royalty than the other actress... In for a penny, in for a pound, as the saying goes...
1) Probably.
2) I don't agree with this. Chekov gets his hand burned in TMP, he gets more time in WOK due to him being brain slugged by Khan, I don't recall his part of the plan in Search for Spock, he had a bigger role in Voyage Home, I don't recall what he did in FF, and was pretty much Spock's sounding board when they were looking for clues.
3) I am all in favor of more white haired lady. I am crushing on her and even made one of my AR crew BOFFS similar to her.
1) I know that Picard offered Spock the opportunity to experience what he and Sarek had shared, but I think that in this instance, there's more evidence against Kirk 'seeing his betterself' and trying to change. An interesting notion, I just don't think there's really anything in the films to support it in any way...
2) For sure, none of those were major parts, but they were at least parts... By getting his hand burned in TMP, that gave the opportunity for Ilia's Deltan voodoo powers to be shown. Depending in which edit of the film you see, but in one, she clearly says she can help him, and 'takes away his pain' with a laying of hands... And indeed, thanks to his accident in Voyage Home, some old dear wound up with a regenerated kidney thanks to McCoy's then-needed presence in the hospital I just think that another officer as Scotty's replacement could have allowed a bit more ambiguity, a bit more of the cloak and dagger shenanigans Section 31 likes to pull, and a bit more of a conundrum, than Khan's open-confession, and then legitimate turn against Kirk, when he ordered Scotty to put him down...
3) Glad to hear As mentioned, because she had a spoken line, she'd get more royalties than the other actress, and she was present at exactly the same time, so it wouldn't've cost them any more, or required her for extra days, had she been sat next to Sulu (I suspect JJ just has a fetish for shaved heads... (Captain Robau, Nero and co, Chekov's replacement, the unmasked Klingon, the Mandroid, other notably hair-less aliens...) It just seems like it was under-using the actress, given that there were all those 'stolen shots' of her... Rather than 'sneaking shots', I'd've had her front-row
I was talking about the TOS movies...which took place during the 80's and 90's.
It's unfair to compare a film's character development to a tv show's. A tv show has more than 2 hours to focus on each character.
I don't think the other characters were underutilized in the films. The show is about Kirk, Spock, and McCoy - one of the reasons the new movies are so atrocious is they decided to throw out that dynamic. I understand the frustrations of the actors who weren't in the star trio - but it makes about as much sense as me complaining I wasn't in Star Trek enough. They weren't in the show's core trio because they weren't in the show's core trio - I'm not in Star Trek enough because I'm not one of the cast.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
I see what happened to certain of the JJTrek characters as part of the tragedy of Nero's intervention. Some stuff I am not a fan of and can't really explain in any way (Uhura who went from consummate professional to cocky attitude and sleeping her way to influence...and yes, I blame Spock for his half in that equally). But with Kirk, I am actually a lot more understanding even though it does create a sometimes unlikable character.
The way I look at it, Nero in essence killed James T. Kirk (as we know him) without actually taking his life. Now, I have actually played with this idea in fanfic where I have Kirk suffering aftereffects between ST2009 and STID from his mind-meld with the Prime Spock, as said meld left him with impressions of his Prime self that are at dissonance with who he is and the circumstances of the JJverse, and in his (albeit crass) way, I have him reflect on the differences and what he sees in the Prime universe that as far as he is concerned, he can't have in this one. This ultimately culminates in Kirk's downward spiral in STID where a lot of this stuff (which he even kept from McCoy as it would have required McCoy to ground him) finally comes to a head along with all the immediate stress from what Khan was doing. In other words I wrote him as a character riding on the edge of (but not quite having) a nervous breakdown.
Thats actually similar to my own head canon, and you even expanded on it nicely with the mind meld after effects. Nicely done. I disagree with ya on Uhura tho, she demanded he give her the slot on the Enterprise which they both damned well knew she'd earned.
Kirk: The rebel without a clue, "OMG, LOOK AT ME, I'M SOOOOOO KEWL!!!!!" 'bad TRIBBLE' who is an arrogant prick, pisses everyone off, thinks he's superman, keeps messing up, is the one getting beaten up in nearly every fight ("cupcake" still makes me face palm) and yet gets the captain chair anyhow. He's pretty much that image of Kirk the 'fanboys' picture as the guy running on a battle field, explosions all over the place, and he's got a phaser in one hand, and his other arm around a half naked green woman. I always call JJ Kirk, "James Dean Jerk" Gimme 'the pile of books with legs' and 'in Lt Kirk's class, you either THINK or SINK' original Kirk any day.
Spock: Yee gods. I'm expecting the next film to show Spock sitting in his quarters, dressed in black, and cutting himself with razor blades, while listening to the Cure. And I preferred the good chemistry the original Kirk and Spock had, as friends. Any hint of anything remotely that of a friendship felt fake and phony to me. I call JJ Spock "Anger Management Spock".
Scotty: ~face slams keyboard~ The miracle worker now turned into the circus clown, and what the smeg's up with that goblin sidekick he's got? Why is he even there?
Sulu: Totally useless, and one bad "Fencing!" followed by cheesy grin moment.
Chekov: The new Wesley Crusher
Uhura: Spock's booty call....
McCoy was ok, but one out of seven is not saving grace.
The Enterprise......the original I'll call Audry Hepburn, the JJ one I'll call Kim Kardassian.
Kirk actually fits... he grew up angry and lashing out, he's not the man Shatner portrayed, in this I think the actor did a good job of mixing old Kirk mannerisms and tone with the new background.
Spock.. yeah sure he IS emo-spock, but this is a YOUNG man that just had a triple tap hammer blow of his planet being smashed, his mother murdered, and his species becoming endangered... that will kick anyone in the nuts. Also remember, even tho they suppress emotion, Vulcans like their Romulan cousins, feel their emotions VERY deeply. So again, it actually fits the new backdrop.
Scotty.. thing yer being a bit harsh but the character really hasn't been given enough backdrop development to show what/who he is/isn't
Chekov..... I cant argue this....
Uhura... way too harsh, and was shown to be much more than a cute black TRIBBLE in a skirt, which was about all the development she was given in TOS.
McCoy... really? this was the one actor I thought failed... it felt like he was forcing the lines out so he didnt barf on someone. I didnt think he managed a good mccoy at all.
Enterprise.. so Sexy as hell as long as she doesn't speak.... an interesting choice :P lol I get(I think) what you were aiming for as Hepburn was pretty and classy, where the Kardashians are sexy and brain dead. But honestly the new JJprise is a pretty damned nice marriage of TOS and Movie era imo and I didn't have an issue with it outside of the lens flare generators
All I see about JJ Kirk is the 'bad TRIBBLE rebel' who starts trouble for the sake of trouble, and that image is sooooooo un cool to me. Just another bad boy getting the glory, and doing little to anything to actually get it. and the Kobiahsi maru bit was eye rolling. And call me crazy, I prefer to see a hero without that ego and troubled childhood for a change.
I call Spock anger management Spock, TOS Spock was charming and entertaining, not this wannabe.
Scotty's nothing but comic relief, if he was an anime character, he'd be part of Pokemon's Team Rocket. That goblin sidekick had more brains than he did.
Uhura, all I saw was "ugh, they're playing on something suggested in a small handful of early stories."
Chekov: Shut up, Pavel!
McCoy: Oh, I am not praising it, trust me, he was just the least offensive to me.
Enterprise.....no, nothing sexy about it. I don't find Kardassian sexy at all, just an overrated silicon udder cow queen that I still can't understand why mainstream american society obsesses over. JJ Prise, out of proportion, waaaaay too big (JJ Picard's enterprise is going be the size of star destroyer or something :P ) looks like something from "Pimp my ride!" (and that's not a good thing), and the inside looked as advanced as a 1950 navel vessel, and looks anything but advanced and futuristic inside (the concept art looked decent, they should have used that.....a brewery, one that was not even remotely disguised at that, was a "you gotta be kidding me!" moment for myself. They used something similar in the original V series....THAT did not look good back then, and does not look good now, either). Plus seeing it being made in a primitive manner of sweaty guys in overalls with old fashioned welders was underwhelming to say the least....seemed JJ wanted to make the 23rd century look as 20th as possible....I'm surprised he did not replaced phasers with Berettas, glocks, and m-16 rifles, or painting flames on the side of the Enterprise or give it a bouncing hydraulic system like my friend, Jose's Cadillac had done to his.
to me, JJ Trek was Trek in name only. I'll stick to Phase 2 and so on. Has a big hope with Axanar, but now this, along with JJ Trek, PBS/Paramount now can be used for the question/joke of the week
What's the difference between the brains of PBS/Paramount and manure?
Manure can be useful. :P
What is this PBS thing you keep talking about???
As far as I know...
PBS = Public Broadcasting System (which shows Sesame Street and Masterpiece Theater)
and
CBS = Colombia Broadcast System (which owns the Star Trek TV shows)
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Comments
The marketing of The Force Awakens was brilliant. Disney and Lucasfilm made back the budget of their film on Force Friday. I would have loved to have had a Star Trek marketing blitz. You have to go out of your way just to buy a Star Trek shirt.
The smart thing that Disney/Lucasfilm did was market Star Wars not just TFA.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I saw ST:TMP in a theater once. I can't remember how many times I went to TWoK when it hit a dollar theater locally, though, and every dollar I paid counted toward the box office take. Saw TSFS in a theater once, TVH probably three or four times, and hadn't seen any of the others in a theater since, as they didn't seem worth the money. Contemplating watching STB in an actual theater, but haven't decided yet. But if I do, and I like it, I'll probably go more than once.
I can't say that JJ's marketing was worse than Gene's.. Gene CREATED the IDIC so he could sell them to fans.
My character Tsin'xing
And sure, Gene wanted to make money. I'm not sure he would have been quite as 'multi-platform' as TFA Marketing... I mean, TFA oranges, cheese straws and yogurts? That's a bit much in my book... At least the Star Trek foodstuffs available tend to ride the coattails of Romulan Ale which is a featured beverage. Maybe if I was to see Rey wolfing down some cheese straws, I might be less incredulous
And of course some fans are up in arms about the new movies. Some fans hated TNG, too. Some never forgave DS9 for quite possibly ripping off the Babylon 5 proposal pitch. Some Trekkies become mired in their preferred interpretation, and can't stand anything different. Welcome to the fandom - been like this since the cartoon came out and some fans hated it.
My character Tsin'xing
This is the thing I've never really experienced... While there are certainly some Trek movies I liked less than others, and some I disliked, I've never really hated anything put out prior to the JJTrek. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy Enterprise, but I never really hated it... I definitely saw the similarities between it and DS-9, but even finding out about the ripping off of the pitch, it's still my favorite Star Trek series... But the amount of complaints I see about JJTrek, the most interesting thing I notice, is that people are all complaining about the same things, rather than each complaining about something different...
I just watched Star Trek and Into Darkness back to back, and while they were entertaining and passed the time, the issues I've previously raised about them still bothered me...
Into the Derpiness, was nothing more than a Wrath of Khan knockoff.
For a couple of scenes, if you were a real Trek fan, you would know its actually a knock off of the Trek Novel, Dreadnought!.
I remember the TMP Happy Meals at McDonald's.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Watching the two movies, however, did allow three points to strike me.
- Following his mind-meld with Spock, Kirk asked about his father, which Spock then explained. This, and other comments Kirk made, utterly destroys the upthread-mentioned headcanon notion that the mind-meld in some way allowed Kirk to experience the greatness of his Prime-self, and to see a better person to aspire to become (his behaviour towards women at the beginning of Into Darkness also shows that his outlook had not changed, and his conduct is still unbecoming an officer and a gentleman...)
- A potential plot point which was utterly missed, would been to have had another officer other than Chekov take over as Scotty's replacement. The flaw, is that while Chekov had been shadowing Scott, that in no way qualifies him to immediately assume the duties of chief engineer, so that, once again, highlights the lack of consideration which the writers give to an organisation of rank. Had another officer been made chief engineer instead, that could have at least allowed for more exploration of the saboteur who forced the ship out of warp. For all we know, that still could have been Chekov (unlikely, but not impossible to discount) The thread of investigating the sabotage, would have at least given the plot something else interesting.
- Misuse of talent by the director... The officer who took over Chekov's post, I don't recall being identified by name, rank, or even having a spoken line (At least the bald Mandroid (wifey's favorite character) got to speak, even if he did respond to Kirk's order for a specific report on the damage of the hull, with an unhelpful and useless 'Hull damage'.) I'm rather confused as to why the other officer who the camera kept focussing on (and who actually did have a spoken line) the lady with the white hair, was not chosen to sit beside Sulu instead... I'm sure wardrobe could have given her a gold uniform instead of a red one, and she was on the set just as much as the other lady...
It was meant as a tongue-in-cheek comment, get off your high horse. I wish there was a ignore function on this thing.
1) Maybe but I imagine that if he just downloaded a lifetime's worth of memories he wouldn't be able to process it all... hence the question.
2) I didn't see it as a missed opportunity but an excuse to use the supporting cast more. In the TOS films if you aren't Kirk, Spock or Bones you are criminally underused...So yeah there should have been an Assistant Chief Engineer, who may have been the little alien that walked with Scotty, so you are right but it's an excuse to give Chekov something more to do.
3) Not sure how this is a problem with the film.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
"Only True Fans" and we wonder why the fandom is dying
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Dude, Phasers on stun...I was backing you up
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
1) Processing I could accept. Equally, he could have said: "My father saw me take command of the Enterprise?!" Given his behaviour at the beginning of Into Darkness hadn't changed, as highlighted by everything Pike said to him in the disciplinary, I still don't see that he had seen anything to inspire him. He only grew in Into Darkness, as a result of what happened to him during those events.
2) I'd have to disagree slightly, as Chekov was actually quite a featured character in the movies. Never a lead, I admit, but certainly one of the main characters... My point was not so much of giving Chekov something to do, but as an opportunity for the sabotage to have been more thoroughly looked into as an additional plot thread.
3) I'm just talking a technical behind the scenes 'might have been better' thought, rather than a true flaw, such as the cold fusion device. A bit like if someone receives a meal, and says "Needs more salt..." The camera clearly gave shots to the white-haired lady, and she did have (a) spoken line... I'm just saying it would have made as much sense to have sat her next to Sulu, especially as given she had a published line, she probably gets a better royalty than the other actress... In for a penny, in for a pound, as the saying goes...
1) Probably.
2) I don't agree with this. Chekov gets his hand burned in TMP, he gets more time in WOK due to him being brain slugged by Khan, I don't recall his part of the plan in Search for Spock, he had a bigger role in Voyage Home, I don't recall what he did in FF, and was pretty much Spock's sounding board when they were looking for clues.
3) I am all in favor of more white haired lady. I am crushing on her and even made one of my AR crew BOFFS similar to her.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The fact that they did as ensemble as they did with TOS is actually pretty unusual. Watch the Galileo 7 - Kirk is hardly in it. Almost all cowboy shows at the time - very popular trash - had one "lone wolf" hero who was the absolute star and nobody else on the show ever got to do anything impressive except him - think of "The Andy Griffith Show" - a comedy - but everyone except Andy is a total buffoon. Ensemble TV just wasn't as much of a thing until the 80's/90's really.
I agree it would have been nice to see a more dynamic ensemble in TOS, but it really wasn't much of a style at that time.
Tell me what show in the 60's had 8 well flushed out and frequently story-centered characters.
People keep trying to push TOS into a true ensemble show mold and criticizing it for not being in that mold in the first place. But that's just not what TV did back then. Most of this, I assume, is because of Takei frequently whining that he didn't like Shatner. We all like the other characters in TOS, but it was never really a true ensemble show because that simply wasn't the style of TV at the time.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
I was talking about the TOS movies...which took place during the 80's and 90's.
It's unfair to compare a film's character development to a tv show's. A tv show has more than 2 hours to focus on each character.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
1) I know that Picard offered Spock the opportunity to experience what he and Sarek had shared, but I think that in this instance, there's more evidence against Kirk 'seeing his betterself' and trying to change. An interesting notion, I just don't think there's really anything in the films to support it in any way...
2) For sure, none of those were major parts, but they were at least parts... By getting his hand burned in TMP, that gave the opportunity for Ilia's Deltan voodoo powers to be shown. Depending in which edit of the film you see, but in one, she clearly says she can help him, and 'takes away his pain' with a laying of hands... And indeed, thanks to his accident in Voyage Home, some old dear wound up with a regenerated kidney thanks to McCoy's then-needed presence in the hospital
3) Glad to hear
I don't think the other characters were underutilized in the films. The show is about Kirk, Spock, and McCoy - one of the reasons the new movies are so atrocious is they decided to throw out that dynamic. I understand the frustrations of the actors who weren't in the star trio - but it makes about as much sense as me complaining I wasn't in Star Trek enough. They weren't in the show's core trio because they weren't in the show's core trio - I'm not in Star Trek enough because I'm not one of the cast.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
What is this PBS thing you keep talking about???
As far as I know...
PBS = Public Broadcasting System (which shows Sesame Street and Masterpiece Theater)
and
CBS = Colombia Broadcast System (which owns the Star Trek TV shows)
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion