ppl die too fast

borgresearcher

fbp needs a nerf badly ... it was needed before, now particle manipulator makes it even worse, id say no shield pen, or 50% less dmg.

resistance curve needs to be ajusted to 80% instead of 75%, there is just so much dmg boosts these days that the only way to counter them is running or pilot spec tree, the torp spread and kemo fix helped a lot, but tacs can still pack a strong punch and ppl dont like to slot neutroniums.
im trying ground pvp, and that thing is aweful, how are you suposed to tank a tac without jam/cloak spam or running ? no wonder most noobs using the stupid rift

ground pvp can be fun too, but all the tac bs dmg spam is just nonsense, all devs must be tacs i believe lol ...

cryptic, the more stuff you put in the game, the more stuff needs to be adjusted, if fbp was strong before, what do you think will happen when you launch a trait that gives 50%crit chance alone for it ? heck, i even feel bad for using 1 copy of fbp1

and ppl, your pve builds wont work for pvp, dont expect much with only a neutronium and not a single healing/tanking trait, stuff like biotech patch, techie, ablative or radiant console are really a must for pvp if you even want to survive a few seconds, and dont even try pvp if your res is bellow 40% unbuffed and your speed is bellow 100, defense must be near or above 100% as well, its easiear to complain about pvp beeing broken than just changing some stuff on your isa build isnt it ? do the math, how do you expect to have a chance with eps consoles and "almost" useless dmg boosting traits ? isa is easy, its not a challenge.

pew pew all the way

cidjack

What???

borgresearcher

this is what pvp looks like now ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8lej1EHEZg

questerius

Surprised that there isn't more neutronic torpedo spam.

borgresearcher

there is still torp spam, but since the fix, radiation procs from spread wont stack like crazy, so ppl is using other torps too, terran and quantum phase torps ( yes those that drain 50k shield each facing ) are the new choices xD

misterferengi

You can't nerf FBP it could end up nerfing the Terran NPC's as well and TBR/FBP/TRB are their gimmicks. Plus as a player in PvE its not that powerful against huge hit point sponges in the Advanced or Elite queues. So you'd reduce the skill even further to the point of it being as worthless as placate abilities. I know you're talking about PvP but personally couldn't careless about PvP, its is practically dead anyhow. PvP needs to be separated from PvE to really revive it, so you have separate, weapons,consoles,skill trees, Powers, ect where one doesn't the effect the other. PvP and PvE become self contained.

borgresearcher

they are allready very far apart as it is...

borgresearcher

but yes you can nerf fbp, and instead of those pets having fbp1 they could have fbp2

gradii

misterferengi#8959 wrote: »

You can't nerf FBP it could end up nerfing the Terran NPC's as well and TBR/FBP/TRB are their gimmicks. Plus as a player in PvE its not that powerful against huge hit point sponges in the Advanced or Elite queues. So you'd reduce the skill even further to the point of it being as worthless as placate abilities. I know you're talking about PvP but personally couldn't careless about PvP, its is practically dead anyhow. PvP needs to be separated from PvE to really revive it, so you have separate, weapons,consoles,skill trees, Powers, ect where one doesn't the effect the other. PvP and PvE become self contained.

Agreed entirely. NO game which has both PVE and PVP can expect both to remain healthy without seperating the mechanics.

commanderkassy

FBP?

gradii

commanderkassy wrote: »

FBP?

I think he's crying about Feedback pulse.. It's always Science which is being cried about as OP when really Tactical needs to be addressed...

samt1996

Or maybe try rubbing your two brain cells together and figure out how to overcome it? Like for example NOT shooting while FBP is active or using any number of buff stripping abilities like SNB, SNCW, a duty officer, Jem'Hadar set etc.

But I guess that's asking too much from someone who's used to shooting at mindless NPC's...

borgresearcher

oh well... im not crying about fbp, im the one who uses it LOL, and who shoots mindless npcs ? kinda stupid statements comming from someone i dont even see in pvp q's i dont even use energy weapons, im a sci dudes lol i just think that 100k hits from fbp is a lil bit too much

chastity1337

/me goes to review Stations on Vesta and see if there's room for FBP

Seriously, didn't FBP get nerfed a while back? And I know the Particle Manipulator trait was nerfed viciously. I still use it, of course, but it's not what it used to be. (Is anything in STO what it used to be?)

I just hate it when people start threads calling for something to be nerfed, especially Science.

As an aside, how will FBP show up in Combat Log Reader?

jbmonroe

"People." It's "people." Why are you texting?

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borgresearcher

its not dead. you can still easely make a build that works on pvp ... question is, does it worth it ? nope.

lianthelia

misterferengi#8959 wrote: »

You can't nerf FBP it could end up nerfing the Terran NPC's as well and TBR/FBP/TRB are their gimmicks. Plus as a player in PvE its not that powerful against huge hit point sponges in the Advanced or Elite queues. So you'd reduce the skill even further to the point of it being as worthless as placate abilities. I know you're talking about PvP but personally couldn't careless about PvP, its is practically dead anyhow. PvP needs to be separated from PvE to really revive it, so you have separate, weapons,consoles,skill trees, Powers, ect where one doesn't the effect the other. PvP and PvE become self contained.

Do people even use FBP in PvE? I mean it's so useless because npcs fir so slowly and so few weapons, only time I'd imagine you'd get any half way decent mileage out of it is if like the whole map was firing at you...even then it would still be meh.

borgresearcher

the true point on this post was the fact that ppl die too fast, fbp is counterable ofc, but cryptic launches so much stuff to boost damage that killing someone in pvp is too easy these days

alcyoneserene

chastity1337 wrote: »

I just hate it when people start threads calling for something to be nerfed, especially Science.

I also fail to see a convincing argument by the OP.

Judging by the stream of thought type of run-ons where a thousand different unrelated topics are somehow supposed to equate to FBP being OP in PVP, I can hardly even make sense of it.

FBP is one defensive strategy against the energy-related alpha strikes of Tacs. More than half the STO player base is Tac, and the game centers around DPS.

With all the endless problems with PVP that get compounded with the release of every new broken or OP ability, somehow it's just FBP that "needs a nerf badly."

I've watched your video. There's a lot going on all at once (nevermind the endless damage immunities everywhere). I couldn't see any relation between your use of FBP and any numbers flying across the screen.

Just recently my Valiant did a 150K hit to the hull of an NPC in CPA on my Sci main using the console torps, but I'm not calling for a nerf on that because that's strategy (shields down condition, fully loaded console, intel flanking) combined with luck (crit) and self/team buffs/debuffs.

If you have a case where FBP is the sole ability that you find OP in PVP (a known broken and abandoned aspect of the game that the majority do not play) among the endless others, and suspect that to "nerf badly" will improve the balance in both PVE and PVP, then by all means make the case.

I for one haven't even used FBP in PvE for the longest time since it doesn't seem to work very well considering NPC AI doesn't do focused fire alpha strikes with just energy weapons.

pierluigi20

..............................................

spaceeagle20

borgresearcher wrote: »

the true point on this post was the fact that ppl die too fast, fbp is counterable ofc, but cryptic launches so much stuff to boost damage that killing someone in pvp is too easy these days

Someone in some other post wrote that this is the only PWE carebear game where there's no focus on PvP : in fact, it's not a game made for pvpers, but a game made for casual spacebarbie trekkies who are tempted to grind for uber damaging stuff in order to destroy NPCs with inflated HP during their daily grinding routine because ... lazy design, I guess.
So, this is what you get ... and that's ironic since Star Trek was a lot about pvp ( dunno ... battle of Bassen Rift, Kirk vs. Khan? )
Anyway I understand you ... I pvp too sometimes (if I am not grinding) because I like doing something more than just isa.
Actually, somewhere in upcoming content, I've read a few ideas for a pvp revamp ... the first one is an idea I had too which is to give a shield/hp buff right when entering a pvp map.
It's not much but you should consider that devs don't care at all about pvp so it's useless to ask for huge tasks like separating pve from pvp.
In my opinion, the shield/hp buff is something easy and simple to try out, just for starters and see how it goes but , hey, I am no programmer so I might be wrong.

markhawkman

lianthelia wrote: »

misterferengi#8959 wrote: »

You can't nerf FBP it could end up nerfing the Terran NPC's as well and TBR/FBP/TRB are their gimmicks. Plus as a player in PvE its not that powerful against huge hit point sponges in the Advanced or Elite queues. So you'd reduce the skill even further to the point of it being as worthless as placate abilities. I know you're talking about PvP but personally couldn't careless about PvP, its is practically dead anyhow. PvP needs to be separated from PvE to really revive it, so you have separate, weapons,consoles,skill trees, Powers, ect where one doesn't the effect the other. PvP and PvE become self contained.

Do people even use FBP in PvE? I mean it's so useless because npcs fir so slowly and so few weapons, only time I'd imagine you'd get any half way decent mileage out of it is if like the whole map was firing at you...even then it would still be meh.

You can do it as part of FaW spam to make killing enemy armadas faster. FaW spam usually is adequate for convincing half the map to shoot you.

warmaker001b

I stopped PVP'ing late in the season where the Voth were introduced. I had done spurts here and there after that Season but not anymore in so long.

Power Creep.

That was the problem and why I had stopped PVP'ing. Every season, every lockbox was something that was a good jump in power creep. Before Delta Rising, I felt it was already way out of hand. Delta Rising made it absolute insanity. Though I stopped PVPing, I still view every release, every lockbox, every new element in how it relates to PVP. It's an old, ingrained habit. The stuff players can do now, the sheer level of offense, defense, heals, procs on top of procs, defense bypasses, abundant strip buffs outside of SCI Captain's SNB, etc... It's absolute insanity now and why PVP in large parts is dead.

Feedback Pulse? The only ones that really had to worry about it were Energy Weapon Alpha Strikers, especially those reliant on cloaks to really put some punch in their initial strikes. More specific in that group of players, only the noobs had to really worry about it. I used to troll hardcore with my KDF TAC in a standard Vo'Quv (because who can't resist shooting at a non-cloak Carrier on a KDF team back when it was FvK) but ready to apply FBP3. In one example, I've popped 2 Romulans when they tried to decloak and Alpha Strike me at the same time. Killed them both in less than 2 seconds.

FBP only works on players that do not or don't understand the buffs running on a target. A good, cloaked Alpha Striker will be in cloak and observe the target and their buff cycle, and pick the best time to come at you. Many others will simply ignore the FBP player while they kill off the others and get the FBP last. Others will feint an attack to get you to pop FBP then hold back their attacks. Once FBP is over, then they REALLY come after you. If you're facing a Science Captain, they can go, "Oh, FBP? Really? LOL! Here's my SNB!" Also Kinetic damage based attacks don't care about FBP.

FBP seems very strong but it's completely defensive and a very expensive ranked ability. If you're not getting attacked like you want to in PVP, then that very expensive ability is completely, 100% useless and another Science ability could have been better for you and our team. An FBP3 user that's not getting attacked just wasted a powerful Cmdr rank ability slot that did a whole lot of nothing.

In my KDF TAC + Vo'Quv example, that ploy worked only on noobs. Veteran PVPers knew better. I didn't stick to that career + ship + FBP combo long because eventually I hardly used FBP.

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tmassx

There are still random pvp? I see pvp queues are always empty. I quit somewhere around season 8, when intel vapers and particle manipulators were invited. It is not fun to be destroyed in several seconds even if you have proper pvp build.
Devs don't care about rules, so you can't play pvp (only for fun with friends and without some overpowered stuff)

risingwolfshadow

It's hard to fight for the OP despite being a PvPer myself.
FBP is easily counter-able especially if you're using cannons and turrets, but seeing as everyone (especially tac captains) are lazily using BFAW in escorts then off course you can't counter it. Whereas with cannons you can simply turn the ship away, cruisers can tank it, especially if they decide to work in a team by doing what cruisers do best.

The Devs are very clear in their opinions toward PvP and they have no interest. A part of the problem has always been the players who are unwilling to fight without broken gear because they know they can't fight without it.
Those players will PvP only in games like STO because in games where gear isn't a factor, they'll stay well away.

If you want to spec PvP wait for games like Star Citizen. Gear/weapons won't be a factor as much as skill will be.

nateham101

lol..people still pvp in this game?

spaceeagle20

risingwolfshadow wrote: »

A part of the problem has always been the players who are unwilling to fight without broken gear because they know they can't fight without it.
Those players will PvP only in games like STO because in games where gear isn't a factor, they'll stay well away.

Remember vanilla PvP ? that was actually my first PvP experience and I wasn't the only one who joined that experiment

davefenestrator

If you want balance in PVP, play with people who have agreed to set limits on what to bring and use.

Nerfing powers you haven't learned to deal with is not the answer.

risingwolfshadow

Vanilla PvP was great but during season 8.5 there was a price to pay for using the latest op meta and that price was either survivability or killing power and that achieved a sense of balance. I achieved kills with my build back then in a fleet defiant with the cloak console not because I vaped people, I alphastriked (which was way more difficult, didn't always work because it needed good timing and so on), I made a counter-vape/team support build that could handle 2+ escorts at a time and still kick TRIBBLE without using the latest cheese and meta. Regarding the gankers, in kerrat both Feds and Klinks used to team up to repeatedly obliterate and humiliate mouthy vapers that let their builds do the talking.