What would happen if The Borg crossed into the Star Wars Universe?

section31agent

Can you imagine if the Death Star was assimilated by the Borg? Would resistance be futile? Is there anything that could possibly stop the Borg in that genre? There are a ton of fanboys who think Star Trek is the weaker universe. Please post your opinions below.

jodarkrider

/Moved to more appropriate forum category.

thegrandnagus1

Literally anything. Anything each individual person can imagine, and each person is equally right.

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admiralnat

If the Borg ended up in the Star Wars universe, they'd probably end up bringing the Undine with them, who would destroy everything, regardless of whether or not they were outnumbered.

warmaker001b

Star Trek is the weaker universe. None of the powers of Star Trek can equal the galactic-scale of warfare that the major players of Star Wars can conduct. None of the groups in Star Trek truly understand warfare on the galactic level and cannot match that scale.

They cannot match the scale of the military of the Galactic Republic, Galactic Empire. Their firepower is immense. More importantly, Star Wars Hyperdrives allows galactic travel within a much shorter time span than the best Star Trek has ever managed to do. The simplest freighter makes trips to the ends of the galaxy like it's no problem, like dropping gifts off at their friend's place across town. The military sends large fleets waging campaigns across the galaxy. Even the Rebel Alliance, weaker than the Galactic Empire, had shown the capability to fight on a galactic level. Not on the same level of strength as the Empire, but it can fight across the expanse of the galaxy.

On the flip side, the wars in Star Trek are small, isolated brush fires in comparison. None of the major powers have the scope, size of military capability the Galactic Republic, Galactic Empire, etc have. Long distance travel is a major problem. Star Trek warfare takes place in one quadrant at best. Star Wars warfare envelops the galaxy in war.

That's just conventional warfare. If you want to throw in the Plot Armor of "The Force" which is inherent in these major powers in Star Wars (Jedi Order for the Galactic Republic, etc) then it gets weirder.

None of the major power players of Star Wars requires some unrealistic alliance of groups that want nothing to do with each other to dominate.

Groups like the Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulans, Dominion, even the Borg... Lay claim to a city block in the galaxy. For Star Wars groups like the Galactic Republic, Galactic Empire, the living, traveling, fighting across the expanse of a galaxy is as normal as you and me grabbing lunch at a restaurant.

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themetalstickman

valoreah wrote: »

ruinthefun wrote: »

In terms of raw power levels as seen on screen, Star Trek is, objectively, the weaker universe. Characters simply command larger quantities of energy in Star Wars by orders of magnitude, and do so with a level of casualness that implies it simply isn't a big deal at all to them. This is objectively observable from on-screen canonical evidence. The energies involved can be calculated.

Kevin Uxbridge wiped out all the Husnak everywhere with a single thought. The Undine were shown to be able to 1 shot a planet. Look at everything Q can do.

I don't really see how Trek is the "weaker" universe.

Kevin Uxbridge and Q are both near- or totally omnipotent, it's unrealistic to use them. And when people talk about "the Star Trek universe," they usually mean "the Federation."​​

artan42

The Borg do not control a single whole of one quadrant, the Galactic Republic and Empire span an enormous section of their own Galaxy and have enough control over it to divert resources to build their Death Stars without being noticed by the Galaxy at large. It's also implied the Separatists (a much smaller power) were planing to do the same thing.

Any of the major powers in the SW universe would just overwhelm the Borg with numbers. Plus Hyperspeed is so much faster than Transwarp the Borg will be standing still in comparison. Couple that with the kinetic weapons of the SW powers and the Borg can't adapt to the starship weapons at least.​​

angrytarg

As already pointed out, it's a stupid concept.

Putting aside the major differences in storytelling structure and intention, though, I always wondered about one thing: The technology depicted in Star Wars seems stagnant. In "the old republic" there were R2 units, blasters and all that and they use the exact same technology thousand years or so later. Warfare tactics employed are crude and primitive at best, they let thousands of foot soldiers rush at each other or park starships next to each other to pepper them with ballistic/charged weaponry. Star Wars is kinda like Warhammer 40k with technology nobody really understands and quantity before quality. How come?​​

gradii

valoreah wrote: »

ruinthefun wrote: »

In terms of raw power levels as seen on screen, Star Trek is, objectively, the weaker universe. Characters simply command larger quantities of energy in Star Wars by orders of magnitude, and do so with a level of casualness that implies it simply isn't a big deal at all to them. This is objectively observable from on-screen canonical evidence. The energies involved can be calculated.

Kevin Uxbridge wiped out all the Husnak everywhere with a single thought. The Undine were shown to be able to 1 shot a planet. Look at everything Q can do.

I don't really see how Trek is the "weaker" universe.​​

Not to mention the technology in Star Trek is clearly more advanced. Star Wars tech appears hundreds of years behind, they build BIG things with it but its all very primitive in comparison.

But once you bring the force (plot magic) into the picture the argument goes out the window.

artan42

angrytarg wrote: »

As already pointed out, it's a stupid concept.

Putting aside the major differences in storytelling structure and intention, though, I always wondered about one thing: The technology depicted in Star Wars seems stagnant. In "the old republic" there were R2 units, blasters and all that and they use the exact same technology thousand years or so later. Warfare tactics employed are crude and primitive at best, they let thousands of foot soldiers rush at each other or park starships next to each other to pepper them with ballistic/charged weaponry. Star Wars is kinda like Warhammer 40k with technology nobody really understands and quantity before quality. How come?

Non-canon . Problem over. The stagnation only exists between TPM and TFA now .

gradii wrote: »

valoreah wrote: »

ruinthefun wrote: »

In terms of raw power levels as seen on screen, Star Trek is, objectively, the weaker universe. Characters simply command larger quantities of energy in Star Wars by orders of magnitude, and do so with a level of casualness that implies it simply isn't a big deal at all to them. This is objectively observable from on-screen canonical evidence. The energies involved can be calculated.

Kevin Uxbridge wiped out all the Husnak everywhere with a single thought. The Undine were shown to be able to 1 shot a planet. Look at everything Q can do.

I don't really see how Trek is the "weaker" universe.

Not to mention the technology in Star Trek is clearly more advanced. Star Wars tech appears hundreds of years behind, they build BIG things with it but its all very primitive in comparison.

But once you bring the force (plot magic) into the picture the argument goes out the window.

Yes, please do tell us how hyperdrives are less advanced than warpdrives. The only thing ST has over SW in terms of common tech are replicators and transporters.​​

angrytarg

@artan42

artan42 wrote: »

Non-canon . Problem over. The stagnation only exists between TPM and TFA now .

That's... unsatisfying

(...)
Yes, please do tell us how hyperdrives are less advanced than warpdrives. The only thing ST has over SW in terms of common tech are replicators and transporters.

I don't have nearly any knowledge of Star Wars that goes beyond the movies and some games so I can't speak of hyperdrives, but

Picard also noted that Atlecs could fire until their lasers ran dry and they still wouldn't have caused any damage to the Enterprise

I'd say a typical nerdrage starship battle between a Trek ship with hundred thousands of kilometres ranging photon torpedoes and phasers against a Star Destroyer with Turbolasers (where it's canonically confirmed that a hit to the bridge takes the ship out of combat, an A-Wing to the bridge makes it explode) would end pretty fast with a score for the Trek ship ​​

jonsills

Hyperdrives are less advanced than warp drives because all calculations for lightspeed jumps must be made before departure. (In the EU, it was actually necessary to map out hyperspace routes, a dangerous and complicated process, before ships could use them routinely.)

In Trek, meanwhile, you kick up your warp drive and steer. You can alter course; merely passing "close to" a supernova isn't going to "end your trip real quick", because you can see it coming and change course. On the other hand, sensors are also better in Trek; tracking a ship in hyperspace is apparently impossible in SW, as seen when the Falcon escaped the Star Destroyer in The Empire Strikes Back (when they didn't see the ship after it buzzed their bridge, the Imperial officers assumed it had jumped to hyperspace; the immediate reaction was to send messages to all known ports of call on its probable courses, as hyperjumps apparently have to be straight lines more or less), while tracking ships at warp is standard practice in Trek.

The gripping hand here is, can an assimilated Jedi still use the Force? If so, the SW universe would be doomed...

artan42

angrytarg wrote: »

@artan42

artan42 wrote: »

Non-canon . Problem over. The stagnation only exists between TPM and TFA now .

That's... unsatisfying

(...)
Yes, please do tell us how hyperdrives are less advanced than warpdrives. The only thing ST has over SW in terms of common tech are replicators and transporters.

I don't have nearly any knowledge of Star Wars that goes beyond the movies and some games so I can't speak of hyperdrives, but

Picard also noted that Atlecs could fire until their lasers ran dry and they still wouldn't have caused any damage to the Enterprise

I'd say a typical nerdrage starship battle between a Trek ship with hundred thousands of kilometres ranging photon torpedoes and phasers against a Star Destroyer with Turbolasers would end pretty fast with a score for the Trek ship

Turbolasers are energy propelled kinetic weapons not lasers. It's the same way phasers cannons aren't cannons.

Also the films and the two latest TV series are about is as far as SW canon is concerned.​​

angrytarg

artan42 wrote: »

Turbolasers are energy propelled kinetic weapons not lasers. It's the same way phasers cannons aren't cannons.

Also the films and the two latest TV series are about is as far as SW canon is concerned.

Which is even worse Technology in Star Wars seems downright archaic compared to other franchises, it's just warhammer levels of gigantomanic. Well yeah, this and Jedi. Then again, Q. And Organians. And all the other omnipotent aliens we have forgotten about past TOS ​​

midwayace

Okay I'll bite...... Like it or not The Borg would make short work and a mockery of the SW Universe. After they lose a single cube they adapt and then they assimilate. Yes SW has masses of little ships and once the Borg use a tractor beam and assimilate a ship with the fancy light drive motor it is game over. A Death Star would eventually be assimilated into a Borg Sphere which would soon control the entire Star Wars Universe. All of the SW ground forces would then become drones. Here in lies the problem, because the Galactic Empire believes there is nobody capable of opposing them they would be slow to react to the Borg threat. The adaptation of the Borg would allow them to easily overcome the 1,000 year old tech of SW. Once the ranks of the Borg swell {and they would} the Force would be ineffective and then what? Run Chewie RUN! Really, have you considered what would happen if the clones got assimilated or what would happen if the Jedi fell to the Borg? Seriously, we are yet to see any omnipotent beings in the SW universe that could stop a Borg invasion. Remember, only the Q have kept the Borg at bay [don't provoke the Borg]. Not to mention the Borg have cloaking technology and time travel capabilities that have not been displayed in the SW universe. The Borg obviously have more technology that they feel is inefficient to use The OP should have asked who in SW was capable of dealing with the Borg threat?

artan42

angrytarg wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

Turbolasers are energy propelled kinetic weapons not lasers. It's the same way phasers cannons aren't cannons.

Also the films and the two latest TV series are about is as far as SW canon is concerned.

Which is even worse Technology in Star Wars seems downright archaic compared to other franchises, it's just warhammer levels of gigantomanic. Well yeah, this and Jedi. Then again, Q. And Organians. And all the other omnipotent aliens we have forgotten about past TOS

It's reliable and cannot be adapted against by modulating shields, it's 'primitive' because it works and it's safer. Even the Falcon could hull tank more damage than a Defiant or something.

jonsills wrote: »

Hyperdrives are less advanced than warp drives because all calculations for lightspeed jumps must be made before departure. (In the EU, it was actually necessary to map out hyperspace routes, a dangerous and complicated process, before ships could use them routinely.)

In Trek, meanwhile, you kick up your warp drive and steer. You can alter course; merely passing "close to" a supernova isn't going to "end your trip real quick", because you can see it coming and change course. On the other hand, sensors are also better in Trek; tracking a ship in hyperspace is apparently impossible in SW, as seen when the Falcon escaped the Star Destroyer in The Empire Strikes Back (when they didn't see the ship after it buzzed their bridge, the Imperial officers assumed it had jumped to hyperspace; the immediate reaction was to send messages to all known ports of call on its probable courses, as hyperjumps apparently have to be straight lines more or less), while tracking ships at warp is standard practice in Trek.

The gripping hand here is, can an assimilated Jedi still use the Force? If so, the SW universe would be doomed...

So? You're travelling in hyperspace, subspace mechanics mean nothing there. it's like saying a horse is more advanced than a train because a horse can turn sideways and alter its course.

Also SW communications can reach from Kamino to Tatooine whereas ST an barely reach across a sector.​​

mustrumridcully0

jonsills wrote: »

Hyperdrives are less advanced than warp drives because all calculations for lightspeed jumps must be made before departure. (In the EU, it was actually necessary to map out hyperspace routes, a dangerous and complicated process, before ships could use them routinely.)

In Trek, meanwhile, you kick up your warp drive and steer. You can alter course; merely passing "close to" a supernova isn't going to "end your trip real quick", because you can see it coming and change course. On the other hand, sensors are also better in Trek; tracking a ship in hyperspace is apparently impossible in SW, as seen when the Falcon escaped the Star Destroyer in The Empire Strikes Back (when they didn't see the ship after it buzzed their bridge, the Imperial officers assumed it had jumped to hyperspace; the immediate reaction was to send messages to all known ports of call on its probable courses, as hyperjumps apparently have to be straight lines more or less), while tracking ships at warp is standard practice in Trek.

It doesn't seem more advanced, just very different FTL technology. Warp drive is flexible and maneuverable but slow. Hyperspace is fast but requires knowledge of the viable routes.

Strategically, not being able to move beyond established routes makes it easier to predcit enemy movement and find weak spots. But - being much faster can allow you to attack points without the enemy being able to send reeinforcements.

The Borg Transwarp technology seems somewhat similar to Hyperdrive technology actually - At least as depicted in VOY, you can get to places connected to their Transwarp network extremely fast, but you have to use those gateways and can't go of course. The Borg entering the Star Wars universe would probably have the disadvantage of not having established networks there, but they can still use regular warp.

The gripping hand here is, can an assimilated Jedi still use the Force? If so, the SW universe would be doomed...

Does the force trick work on Hive Mind? "These are not the civilizations you are looking for." - "These are not the civilizations we are looking for."
"You should exterminate the the Vong instead" - "We should turn the Expanded Universe into Star Wars Legends and sell the property to Disney!"

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gulberat

I am not sure if anyone has pointed this out with regard to the Borg, but wherever the starting point of Trek technology is versus Star Wars, the Borg are going to GET to the Wars level very fast (whereas admittedly the Feds are going to have a hard time).

Star Wars data security is...well, let me put it bluntly--it's TRIBBLE. Hacking is rampant, judging from the ease with which R2-D2 is able to penetrate what should be some of the most heavily guarded systems in the Trade Federation and the Galactic Empire, and security did not improve between The Phantom Menace and Return of the Jedi (NO SPOILERS for TFA please). If a little astrometrics droid can commandeer things at will and that vulnerability isn't patched for decades on end, you can bet that the Borg will rip through any Imperial database like it's nothing.

Just send a small probe (we know small craft aren't that noticeable to a Death Star or Star Destroyer), beam a couple drones into a deserted area of the craft on the sly, and let the hacking games begin. And as soon as the Borg do that, then they will adapt, and it's really going to hit the fan. Would it be a guaranteed win for the Borg? Not necessarily, but it would take them from minor nuisance to serious threat in no time.

artan42

gulberat wrote: »

I am not sure if anyone has pointed this out with regard to the Borg, but wherever the starting point of Trek technology is versus Star Wars, the Borg are going to GET to the Wars level very fast (whereas admittedly the Feds are going to have a hard time).

Star Wars data security is...well, let me put it bluntly--it's TRIBBLE. Hacking is rampant, judging from the ease with which R2-D2 is able to penetrate what should be some of the most heavily guarded systems in the Trade Federation and the Galactic Empire, and security did not improve between The Phantom Menace and Return of the Jedi (NO SPOILERS for TFA please). If a little astrometrics droid can commandeer things at will and that vulnerability isn't patched for decades on end, you can bet that the Borg will rip through any Imperial database like it's nothing.

Just send a small probe (we know small craft aren't that noticeable to a Death Star or Star Destroyer), beam a couple drones into a deserted area of the craft on the sly, and let the hacking games begin. And as soon as the Borg do that, then they will adapt, and it's really going to hit the fan. Would it be a guaranteed win for the Borg? Not necessarily, but it would take them from minor nuisance to serious threat in no time.

Adapt to what? Star Wars still uses kinetic and melee weapons.​​

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hawku001x

arnthebard wrote: »

What would happen if The Borg crossed into the Star Wars Universe?

Disney would be sued and CBS would become rich. With that money, more Trek would be developed for the benefit of all fans.

gulberat

artan42 wrote: »

gulberat wrote: »

I am not sure if anyone has pointed this out with regard to the Borg, but wherever the starting point of Trek technology is versus Star Wars, the Borg are going to GET to the Wars level very fast (whereas admittedly the Feds are going to have a hard time).

Star Wars data security is...well, let me put it bluntly--it's TRIBBLE. Hacking is rampant, judging from the ease with which R2-D2 is able to penetrate what should be some of the most heavily guarded systems in the Trade Federation and the Galactic Empire, and security did not improve between The Phantom Menace and Return of the Jedi (NO SPOILERS for TFA please). If a little astrometrics droid can commandeer things at will and that vulnerability isn't patched for decades on end, you can bet that the Borg will rip through any Imperial database like it's nothing.

Just send a small probe (we know small craft aren't that noticeable to a Death Star or Star Destroyer), beam a couple drones into a deserted area of the craft on the sly, and let the hacking games begin. And as soon as the Borg do that, then they will adapt, and it's really going to hit the fan. Would it be a guaranteed win for the Borg? Not necessarily, but it would take them from minor nuisance to serious threat in no time.

Adapt to what? Star Wars still uses kinetic and melee weapons.​​

Blasters for starters, and that would give them the specs for hyperdrives (to negate that advantage), and also how to mass resources to build much larger ships in a short time. Also, yes, some melee weapons exist but I'm pretty sure that just like a nanopulse, which registers in STO as energy damage, it would be possible to shield against a lightsaber after the first few drones were struck down. The Force is more of a problem to contend with but it might be possible to leverage combat experience against the Undine to at least partially mitigate that issue.

valoreah wrote: »

gulberat wrote: »

Star Wars data security is...well, let me put it bluntly--it's TRIBBLE.

Not to mention death star design. How many times do fighters need to shoot torpedoes down a hole to blow the thing up before they correct that slight design flaw?​​

While I prefer Star Trek to Wars, I will at least grant the points in this video regarding the first Death Star's design: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agcRwGDKulw

mustrumridcully0

artan42 wrote: »

gulberat wrote: »

I am not sure if anyone has pointed this out with regard to the Borg, but wherever the starting point of Trek technology is versus Star Wars, the Borg are going to GET to the Wars level very fast (whereas admittedly the Feds are going to have a hard time).

Star Wars data security is...well, let me put it bluntly--it's TRIBBLE. Hacking is rampant, judging from the ease with which R2-D2 is able to penetrate what should be some of the most heavily guarded systems in the Trade Federation and the Galactic Empire, and security did not improve between The Phantom Menace and Return of the Jedi (NO SPOILERS for TFA please). If a little astrometrics droid can commandeer things at will and that vulnerability isn't patched for decades on end, you can bet that the Borg will rip through any Imperial database like it's nothing.

Just send a small probe (we know small craft aren't that noticeable to a Death Star or Star Destroyer), beam a couple drones into a deserted area of the craft on the sly, and let the hacking games begin. And as soon as the Borg do that, then they will adapt, and it's really going to hit the fan. Would it be a guaranteed win for the Borg? Not necessarily, but it would take them from minor nuisance to serious threat in no time.

Adapt to what? Star Wars still uses kinetic and melee weapons.​​

To kinetic and meelee weapons, of course.


People seem to believe Borg can't do that, just because they have seen a few Borg killed by kinetic and melee weapons - but we've also seen them get killed by phaser weapons. They still adapt in the end.


But I think the real deal here isn't about adapting to the weapons - it's just taking the shield and weapon technology their enemy has and use it. Star Wars shields obviously help against their (turbo)lasers and blaster rifles and proton torpedoes, regardless of whether Borg or Federation shields would do it or not.

warmaker001b

Star Trek warfare: "I'm king of my street!"

Star Wars warfare: "We fight on a continental level."

artan42

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

To kinetic and meelee weapons, of course.


People seem to believe Borg can't do that, just because they have seen a few Borg killed by kinetic and melee weapons - but we've also seen them get killed by phaser weapons. They still adapt in the end.


But I think the real deal here isn't about adapting to the weapons - it's just taking the shield and weapon technology their enemy has and use it. Star Wars shields obviously help against their (turbo)lasers and blaster rifles and proton torpedoes, regardless of whether Borg or Federation shields would do it or not.

Because they can't. Their shields change frequency to match the frequency of an energy weapon. The energy in SW is a propellent for the projectile, all the Borgs shields would do is slow it down before impact.

All taking SW shield tech would do is make the fights last a fraction longer, most of the fighting is done against unprotected hulls.​​

pottsey5g

Assuming the two drives work in both universes Star Trek ships have a massive advantage and Star Wars wouldn’t stand a chance. Although Star Wars Hyperdrive is faster it’s not as flexible with the biggest problem it can only go straight lines between mapped points and beacons.

One big problem for Star Wars is that Star Trek ships sensors work at above light speed and weapons work at above light speed. Star Wars sensors don’t work at Light speed and the ships have to drop to below light speed to use weapons. Star Trek ships could just stay at above light speed and fly in cycles around Star Wars ships who couldn’t even see what’s shooting them.

Assuming somehow Star Wars should even managed to Fire at Star trek ships then we still run into the weapon problem. Star Wars is based around lasers which cannot hurt Star Trek ships even with main shields down. Basic Star Trek ships are immune to laser fire without shields as lasers are considered an outdated primitive weapon. Kinetic only weapons are even worse that's what a deflector dish is for to deflect all incoming Kinetic stuff and its designed to do that at speeds and energy levels far greater then what Star Wars use.

I don’t see how the Star Wars scale can overcome the problem with the engines and weapon systems. Effectively a single Star Trek ship can take on an entire Star Wars fleet with relatively safety. A single federation ship shooting beams and torpedo's at above light speed would devastate a Star Wars fleet who couldn't even fire back.

artan42

pottsey5g wrote: »

Assuming the two drives work in both universes Star Trek ships have a massive advantage and Star Wars wouldn’t stand a chance. Although Star Wars Hyperdrive is faster it’s not as flexible with the biggest problem it can only go straight lines between mapped points and beacons.

Oh, please. It'd take forever for ST ships to get anywhere. Warp is standing still compared with Hyperspace.

pottsey5g wrote: »

One big problem for Star Wars is that Star Trek ships sensors work at above light speed and weapons work at above light speed. Star Wars sensors don’t work at Light speed and the ships have to drop to below light speed to use weapons. Star Trek ships could just stay at above light speed and fly in cycles around Star Wars ships who couldn’t even see what’s shooting them.

ST weapons rarely work at warp and SW sensors work at lightspeed else their hyperdrives would't work.

pottsey5g wrote: »

Assuming somehow Star Wars should even managed to Fire at Star trek ships then we still run into the weapon problem. Star Wars is based around lasers which cannot hurt Star Trek ships even with main shields down. Basic Star Trek ships are immune to laser fire without shields as lasers are considered an outdated primitive weapon.

They set up an Interdictor and capture the ST ships in a gravity well.
And NO! SW weapons are NOT lasers. They are kinetic, they leave behind cartages, they travel slower than light, they are not lasers.

pottsey5g wrote: »

I don’t see how the Star Wars scale can overcome the problem with the engines and weapon systems. Effectively a single Star Trek ship can take on an entire Star Wars fleet with relatively safety. A single federation ship shooting beams and torpedo's at above light speed would devastate a Star Wars fleet who couldn't even fire back.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

No.​​

markhawkman

Since people are into unit measuring contests.... Galactic Empire vs the Thirdspace Aliens. Why stop at ruling ONE galaxy?